Who knows if true, but he’s pretty connected within Boston sports, on his podcast he says Giants offered 2024 1, 2 and 3 AND says same thing for 2025. It’s a little unclear what he means by 2025 but indicates also at least 1 and 2 as he says maybe pats could have had a 2026 pick too.
Again, who knows if it’s true but I haven’t heard they offered that much.
This is on his NFC over / under podcast when discussing the giants around 20 minute mark.
Maybe the Giants vetoed the final offer to the Pats being shown too. But those are the money shots.
My guess is the Giants did not want the real offer being broadcast. There is no good to the Giants in letting the world know that.
The problem is he gets hurt a lot and he isn't elite. He isn't in the top 5 tier and doesn't have the skills ever to be top 5. However, if you put talent around him like I think we have this year he will produce better than people think.
So just win the first two games and win with big throws down field that garner film and have defenses focused on the deep ball so we can begin to unravel a strong run game that churns. We need a ball control offense that can go over the top easily with deep speed to Nabers, Hyatt and Robinson.
Honestly, if Bellinger becomes that 60-650-5 type guy who gets the easy ones this offense will have the pieces to move the ball IF it stays healthy.
It's out in the open. They were going to give up two drafts to get one.
Maybe they know there's potentially a problem, but they don't know there's potentially more than one solution.
The words "Bill Simmons" in a thread title somehow can have that effect.
#1- at some point you have to know that you arent getting a deal and are wasting time and that this exposes your organization
How so? Well as people acknowledge this shows we dont like our QB and since you arent getting a trade, this only hurts you
Ex . If you are trying to buy a home and you are pursuing your “dream home “ and you keep offering more & more - beyond what you can reasonably pay but cant an acceptance
And now your lease is up so you have to renew and cant buy a different home
Would anyone say this is smart?
The Pats weren’t accepting a trade to 6 and everyone knew it. It doesn’t reflect well on us that we pursued it to the end and exposed Jones and opened up the fan base to expect a QB
#2- if the Giants felt they needed a QB that bad to make such a big offer to the point you have exposed you are “done” with Jones, then how is it possible you go into the year with no viable alternative?
This is why so many feel so unenthusiastic about the upcoming year
This is how you get Emmanuel Acho saying
“When you walk into an NFL locker room and Daniel Jones is your starting quarterback, you are admitting not just to the 53 players, plus the ten practice squad players, you are admitting to the fans, ‘We are submitting during the season, we are already saying mercy, we are losing.’
“You are betraying the entire organization when you make Daniel Jones the starter, because all of their work is void by starting Daniel Jones. That’s like adding all of the numbers into a calculator and hitting ‘times zero’--you will always end up with zero.”
But Chi, Wash are def taking QBs and NE has just as big or a bigger need than the Giants. Why would they trade back?
Most BBI’ers: “ Because asshat info has them saying they aren’t in love with Maye and want to trade back. So Schoen should do everything possible to get Maye. If that’s who you want, you trade everything you can to get it done.”
Most BBI’ers: “I don’t believe what Schefter, Rapoport, Garafolo and some asshats are reporting. They need to offer more. I know NE def wants to move down. JS is dropping the ball here.”
Most BBI’ers: “I don’t believe what I saw on Hard Knocks. JS sucks. He should’ve tried harder to move up.”
Most BBI’ers: “JS sucks. He loves DJ, gave him the worst contract ever. He doesn’t want to move on from him. It was all BS trying to move up for a QB. We’re in QB hell we’re never going to win. I can’t believe we’re running it back with the same QB.”
Now this report comes out proving Schoen and the Giants wanted to move on from DJ and tried everything they could to up for Maye….
Most BBI’ers:
“I don’t believe Simmons. I’m going to believe all the rumors I heard before and during the draft and what was shown on Hard Knocks.”
“I can’t believe Schoen offered that much. That’s way too much!”
But but but you said you wanted to move up no matter the cost. Schoen tried to get it done but NE said no because they wanted Maye as much if not more than we did. There’s nothing more Schoen could’ve done. Is shows he 100% tried to move on from DJ…
Most BBI’ers: I can’t believe we’re stuck with DJ another year. I can’t believe he didn’t try harder to move up. Garafolo said a 1&2 and a 1 next year. That didn’t get it done. They should’ve offered more. But I can’t believe he offered that much that’s crazy.
That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell around here. Can’t make it up…
I have no issue walking away from a trade if the price was ridiculous, my issue is the lack of a better Plan B.
#1- at some point you have to know that you arent getting a deal and are wasting time and that this exposes your organization
How so? Well as people acknowledge this shows we dont like our QB and since you arent getting a trade, this only hurts you
Ex . If you are trying to buy a home and you are pursuing your “dream home “ and you keep offering more & more - beyond what you can reasonably pay but cant an acceptance
And now your lease is up so you have to renew and cant buy a different home
Would anyone say this is smart?
The Pats weren’t accepting a trade to 6 and everyone knew it. It doesn’t reflect well on us that we pursued it to the end and exposed Jones and opened up the fan base to expect a QB
#2- if the Giants felt they needed a QB that bad to make such a big offer to the point you have exposed you are “done” with Jones, then how is it possible you go into the year with no viable alternative?
This is why so many feel so unenthusiastic about the upcoming year
This is how you get Emmanuel Acho saying
“When you walk into an NFL locker room and Daniel Jones is your starting quarterback, you are admitting not just to the 53 players, plus the ten practice squad players, you are admitting to the fans, ‘We are submitting during the season, we are already saying mercy, we are losing.’
“You are betraying the entire organization when you make Daniel Jones the starter, because all of their work is void by starting Daniel Jones. That’s like adding all of the numbers into a calculator and hitting ‘times zero’--you will always end up with zero.”
That’s a pretty bad take.
1) No matter what they weren’t going far this year regardless. This is still a rebuilding team. There’s glaring needs at CB, DL, backup edge rusher and possibly OL.
2) They were in love with Nabers. He has the chance to be in the same conversation with Chase, Jefferson, Lamb. He’s an elite prospect which they desperately needed on offense.
3) They obviously weren’t high on JJM, Nix or Penix. They had Nabers with a much higher grade. Watching hard knocks there was no other mention of taking a QB. If Nabers went 5, they were trying to trade back and take Bowers. They didn’t believe in the other QBs.
4) DJ still was guaranteed to be on this team this year no matter what. There were no QBs available in a trade or FA that would make us into a contender.
And going back to my first point. It’s still a rebuilding team. They got some nice building blocks in this draft and FA. This wasn’t an all in year. Why was it QB or bust this year? Most teams at the top of the draft don’t need a QB next year. The Raiders and Giants… and possibly the Titans need QBs the most. If DJ is terrible like you all claim he is then we should have a very good shot at the 1st QB taken next year. So say getting Beck, who might be a better prospect than Maye and getting Nabers who’s one of the best WR coming out since Chase this year sets this team up for a good future.
End of story.
Now in 2024, Jones is a bottom-3 QB who will sink the Giants season in his words.
Listen, I don't think the 2023 season can be dismissed but that's one hell of a swing lmao. On brand for him.
TOTALLY on brand for him, except that he usually does that week-to-week.
#1- at some point you have to know that you arent getting a deal and are wasting time and that this exposes your organization
How so? Well as people acknowledge this shows we dont like our QB and since you arent getting a trade, this only hurts you
Ex . If you are trying to buy a home and you are pursuing your “dream home “ and you keep offering more & more - beyond what you can reasonably pay but cant an acceptance
And now your lease is up so you have to renew and cant buy a different home
Would anyone say this is smart?
The Pats weren’t accepting a trade to 6 and everyone knew it. It doesn’t reflect well on us that we pursued it to the end and exposed Jones and opened up the fan base to expect a QB
#2- if the Giants felt they needed a QB that bad to make such a big offer to the point you have exposed you are “done” with Jones, then how is it possible you go into the year with no viable alternative?
This is why so many feel so unenthusiastic about the upcoming year
This is how you get Emmanuel Acho saying
“When you walk into an NFL locker room and Daniel Jones is your starting quarterback, you are admitting not just to the 53 players, plus the ten practice squad players, you are admitting to the fans, ‘We are submitting during the season, we are already saying mercy, we are losing.’
“You are betraying the entire organization when you make Daniel Jones the starter, because all of their work is void by starting Daniel Jones. That’s like adding all of the numbers into a calculator and hitting ‘times zero’--you will always end up with zero.”
#2 describes my angst towards the situation. Well articulated HT
Now in 2024, Jones is a bottom-3 QB who will sink the Giants season in his words.
Listen, I don't think the 2023 season can be dismissed but that's one hell of a swing lmao. On brand for him.
Well to be fair, a lot of people have swung on Jones from 2022 to now, including apparently our own front office.
HardTruth...great post.
Quote:
This will probably serve well as another example of rumors/news that I want to hear, therefore it is true.
I think there as been too much smoke around the supposed trade offer to the Pats for me to deny that Schoen is looking to upgrade the qb and wasn't just 'checking in' to see what the cost was. Regardless, information like this isn't verified as fact.
To me the smoke indicates that Schoen and the Giants felt Maye is a generational talent more than it reveals a strong desire to upgrade the QB position.
Certainly could be. No dispute here.
Then in the period of time it required to change into a suit and hunt down Daboll and his bosses, he was telling them they weren't trading up.
Maybe he made this Godfather offer while changing his pants. Otherwise I think Simmons is full of it.
one consideration in comparing the offer to the eli trade is that the chargers did get back a top tier QB prospect immediately.
an imaginary tradeup from 3-1 to get caleb williams while including drake maye in the package might be more comparable to eli/rivers trade.
plus qb trade values inflated from 20 years ago. just fwiw.
A. Hope the Pats will trade with us
B. Pay a top five salary cap cost for the worst QB depth chart in the NFL
That's not a plan.
Shocker, right?
Of course, you could be listening to the podcast and drawing a conclusion that fits your "narrative"... ;)
Just was about to post that. They think we’re going to be so bad they spent less than 3 minutes on us.
Shocker, right?
Of course, you could be listening to the podcast and drawing a conclusion that fits your "narrative"... ;)
Wait, so no one is conspicuously missing from this thread?
Schoen had 2024 #1, a 2025 #1 and a 2025 #3 on the table. I was told he added another pick on draft day.
The Pats needed a QB and weren't comfortable going with JJM
Quote:
.
Yep
Doesn’t fit the “narrative”
Who is missing that you two want to hear from? You seem to be aligned fairly often.
And yet you did literally just make all of that up!
There is no such thing as "most BBIers" having one take on this topic. You don't understand what you are reading.
HardTruth...great post.
No im not.. but like Eric said, Is it that too far fetched? If you believe Garafolo’s intel, why wouldn’t you think they still tried to up the offer to get it done?
A. Hope the Pats will trade with us
B. Pay a top five salary cap cost for the worst QB depth chart in the NFL
That's not a plan.
If I had to put $ on it, I think Schoen wanted Drake. But he didn't want to give up the farm up for him & he knew John-whose love for Jones will forever confound me-would love if we got another weapon for Jones so there wasn't a ton of pressure on Schoen to move up.
Nobody said they were chasing Maye. they could have been preparing themselves in the event that Daniels slipped to #3.
The Pats could have been serious about trading with the Giants if the redskins took Maye.
So many assumptions here without anyone really knowing anything. The real draft discussions did not happen on camera. Why? The fucking cameraman would have leaked it.
This is how you get Emmanuel Acho saying
“When you walk into an NFL locker room and Daniel Jones is your starting quarterback, you are admitting not just to the 53 players, plus the ten practice squad players, you are admitting to the fans, ‘We are submitting during the season, we are already saying mercy, we are losing.’
“You are betraying the entire organization when you make Daniel Jones the starter, because all of their work is void by starting Daniel Jones. That’s like adding all of the numbers into a calculator and hitting ‘times zero’--you will always end up with zero.”
The amount of pressure mounting on this kid as we enter the season, deserved or not, is not what you want.
Quote:
That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell around here. Can’t make it up…
And yet you did literally just make all of that up!
There is no such thing as "most BBIers" having one take on this topic. You don't understand what you are reading.
Go back and read every post and comment since the draft about Schoen not getting a QB and running it back again with DJ. Either they complain Schoen didn’t try hard enough to move up, they don’t believe he offered enough, they pick and choose what asshat or reporter to believe to fit their narrative.
Here’s a fact. Nobody 100% knows the exact final offer to the Pat’s but Schoen & other top Giants execs. Fact#2. Schoen tried to move up for a QB. So he was trying to move on from DJ after this year. Fact#3 DJ was going to be on this team this year no matter what. Fact#4- JJM, Nix, Penix were never options.
And now today, with Simmons report, whether you believe it or not, they’re pissed that they’d give up that much, yet were pissed he didn’t give up enough to move up.
Final fact. The Pats were never trading out of that spot unless they got an unrealistic offer that no GM in their right mind would do. They needed Maye as much if not more than the Giants do. Also the smokescreen that they really preferred JJM over Maye is total bullshit since they didn’t make the trade. They wanted Maye period.
So I’m sick of most people here complaining that Schoen didn’t really want to move on from DJ which is simply not true. He got an elite wr in Nabers and mostly likely will go all in on a QB next year. Yet every pass DJ misses, or Nix, Maye, Penix make will be a shit on DJ and front office post.
You obviously don’t know what you’re reading.. or you haven’t read a thing since the draft.
Final fact. The Pats were never trading out of that spot unless they got an unrealistic offer that no GM in their right mind would do. They needed Maye as much if not more than the Giants do. Also the smokescreen that they really preferred JJM over Maye is total bullshit since they didn’t make the trade. They wanted Maye period.
So I’m sick of most people here complaining that Schoen didn’t really want to move on from DJ which is simply not true. He got an elite wr in Nabers and mostly likely will go all in on a QB next year. Yet every pass DJ misses, or Nix, Maye, Penix make will be a shit on DJ and front office post.
You have no idea if it's a "fact" the Pats were never going to move the 3rd pick. You are guessing because that's what you want the outcome to be to suit your POV.
A strong case can be made that Schoen wanted an insurance policy at QB because he was concerned most about Jones's healthy, not his skills. And he was close enough in the order to at least be in the hunt for a young QB on a rookie contract. He was hoping he could get the stars aligned on his terms.
But not once has/did Schoen ever say his consideration for making a move up had anything to do with Jones's ability to perform. Why the hell do you think he has cited the Minnesota playoff win so frequently? It's always been about Jones's availability to perform.
And that's the problem here for you and your ilk. You can't accept the distinct possibility that Schoen still likes Jones and knows his owner feels similarly. And he was just as content taking Nabers as he was getting Maye on his terms.
"He tried to trade up for Maye" isn't going to make it ok when they are 3-8 and struggling to put 20 points on the board.
Schoen's handling of QB has been shambolic.
"He tried to trade up for Maye" isn't going to make it ok when they are 3-8 and struggling to put 20 points on the board.
Schoen's handling of QB has been shambolic.
Right. I can live with the Jones contract. I'm fine they tried to move up for Maye. What I'm not fine with was there were no other options explored. McCarthy, Nix & Penix all weren't good enough for arguably the worst QB room in the league? Not even a developmental QB.
The QB depth chart is unacceptable.
Quote:
He failed, and now he's trotting out the quest group of QBs in the league.
"He tried to trade up for Maye" isn't going to make it ok when they are 3-8 and struggling to put 20 points on the board.
Schoen's handling of QB has been shambolic.
Right. I can live with the Jones contract. I'm fine they tried to move up for Maye. What I'm not fine with was there were no other options explored. McCarthy, Nix & Penix all weren't good enough for arguably the worst QB room in the league? Not even a developmental QB.
The QB depth chart is unacceptable.
That's one of the things that bugs me most. They were so high on Maye that they were willing to trade up for him but we're unwilling to take one of the other three even after a trade down to 9.
So they had Maye miles ahead of the other three. Between that questionable scouting assessment, their genius decision to pay Jones, and signing Lock to be the backup...it's starting to look like these QB gurus should be sending their paychecks to Josh Allen.
(1) Schoen tried to move up to #3. He made a fair offer of our #1 this year and a #1 and #3 in 2025. dd in Mass also said that Schoen added another pick on draft day. But the Patriots didn't want to trade the pick. Any initial willingness they might have had to so ended when their own draft board didn't have JJM (and presumably Nix) in the top 10.
(2) Even if the Giants had traded with the Bears, they apparently would have either taken Odunze or Bowers at #9, not JJM or Nix. They had those players, Harrison, Nabers, and probably others ranked ahead of both QBs. It will nonetheless be valid to criticize Schoen for not taking JJM or Nix if either, or both, become franchise QBs. But as of draft day, the Giants, like every other team, not surprisingly stuck to their board and drafted the highest rated player, Nabers.
(3) Taking a developmental QB wasn't really an option this year. I liked Rattler move than most, but agree that his personality likely wouldn't have worked in NY. I also would have put in a waiver claim for Pratt, but he was a seventh round pick, and looks like a better version of Kyle Lauletta. It's defensible to stay with DeVito instead. Milton has a rocket launcher for an arm but has had accuracy issues and lasted until the sixth round.
If Nabers plays like an "Alpha" and the OL provides better pass protection, Jones should be at least average. But he's still likely gone after this season, or the spring of 2026 at the latest. The attempted major move for Maye shows that Schoen and Daboll both want to move on from him. I am sure they will draft a QB next year.
But there are a lot of more important data points that say we aren’t ready to move on from this QB hell
1) His insane contract and our owner doubling down on it even after his horrific season
2) The lack of any legit competition for him
3) The fact that close to where we picked 3 other teams, one with a much better QB than Jones already on saw their future QBs. If the Giants were serious about replacing Jones they take one of those guys
They aren’t serious about it. Why do people even try to grasp at this point?
Quote:
Final fact. The Pats were never trading out of that spot unless they got an unrealistic offer that no GM in their right mind would do. They needed Maye as much if not more than the Giants do. Also the smokescreen that they really preferred JJM over Maye is total bullshit since they didn’t make the trade. They wanted Maye period.
So I’m sick of most people here complaining that Schoen didn’t really want to move on from DJ which is simply not true. He got an elite wr in Nabers and mostly likely will go all in on a QB next year. Yet every pass DJ misses, or Nix, Maye, Penix make will be a shit on DJ and front office post.
You have no idea if it's a "fact" the Pats were never going to move the 3rd pick. You are guessing because that's what you want the outcome to be to suit your POV.
A strong case can be made that Schoen wanted an insurance policy at QB because he was concerned most about Jones's healthy, not his skills. And he was close enough in the order to at least be in the hunt for a young QB on a rookie contract. He was hoping he could get the stars aligned on his terms.
But not once has/did Schoen ever say his consideration for making a move up had anything to do with Jones's ability to perform. Why the hell do you think he has cited the Minnesota playoff win so frequently? It's always been about Jones's availability to perform.
And that's the problem here for you and your ilk. You can't accept the distinct possibility that Schoen still likes Jones and knows his owner feels similarly. And he was just as content taking Nabers as he was getting Maye on his terms.
LOL Are you serious? So you don’t remember this conversation on Hard Knocks? Here’s the article of the conversation. Or go back and re watch the episode. So you not only don’t believe literal footage of the conversation, you don’t believe what Garafolo, Rapoport, several others including the most recent report by Simmons that he tried to move up. We all know for a fact Jones was a guarantee to be on the roster this year. So regardless, Joe Schoen wasn’t going to shit on DJ on hard knocks, in the paper, or anywhere. It’s also possible that he does still believe in DJ. It’s possible that even if they got Maye they would’ve started DJ this year.
But it’s a literal fact Schoen tried to trade up for Maye and the Pats said no unless it was multiple picks in 2024 & 2025.
So it’s actually you who are wrong and trying creat an outcome to suit your POV. And its’s actually the problem here for you and your ilk. You can't accept the distinct possibility that Schoen tried hard to trade up for DJs replacement and wasn’t going to be fleeced. There is a limit to what he would pay and no GM in their right mind would give multiple picks in 2024 and 2025 including both 1s. And that’s why I said it’s a fact the Pats weren’t trading back and were taking Maye. The only way they were trading down is if the deal was unrealistic.
'Hard Knocks': Patriots rejected Giants' draft day trade offer on Maye - ( New Window )
Not having a viable replacement means you aren’t serious about replacing them.
Make the case I’m all ears
Perhaps you don’t have all of the information? Maybe there is more to the story?
Acting as if your view is the only way to look at something is certainly arrogant.
Saying you’re all ears indicates you are open minded. I have not seen anything from you in any of your conversations with others that shows that virtue.
Let us be honest here, you wouldn’t change your mind even if something was proven. Just another poster stirring up shit and probably a dupe as well.
Try reading left to right. RIF.
Perhaps you don’t have all of the information? Maybe there is more to the story?
Acting as if your view is the only way to look at something is certainly arrogant.
Saying you’re all ears indicates you are open minded. I have not seen anything from you in any of your conversations with others that shows that virtue.
Let us be honest here, you wouldn’t change your mind even if something was proven. Just another poster stirring up shit and probably a dupe as well.
So you making a case is devil’s advocate? That’s the best you got? That shows there isn’t a case. Thanks
I’m not moving on this because I move with the facts and you don’t have them