Who knows if true, but he’s pretty connected within Boston sports, on his podcast he says Giants offered 2024 1, 2 and 3 AND says same thing for 2025. It’s a little unclear what he means by 2025 but indicates also at least 1 and 2 as he says maybe pats could have had a 2026 pick too.
Again, who knows if it’s true but I haven’t heard they offered that much.
This is on his NFC over / under podcast when discussing the giants around 20 minute mark.
I was told two 1s, a 2 and two 3s.
It's out in the open. They were going to give up two drafts to get one.
2024 1st & 3rd, 2025 1st
And Simmons is reporting:
2024 1st & 2nd & 3rd, 2025 1st & 2nd & 3rd
That's a huge difference.
I keep hearing Schoen's comment to Dan Morgan when negotiating the Burns deal "....we need players too!"
Seems like the 6 premium picks over two drafts would have been an almost historic level trade to move up 3 spots.
That said, I wanted Drake Maye as well.
Isn't it obvious. To accept that would undercut the recurring assertion that Schoen is all in on Joines and/or got his marching orders from Mara
Quote:
In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB.
So then if they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they they wanted…then that was their back up plan…what do you think they should have done?
I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right?
But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with
Sorry for the multiple post
If they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they wanted…that was their back up plan
What do you think they should have done?
I'm on record as wanting JJM. Obviously today that would look bad if he tore his meniscus here as well, but couldn't predict that at the time.
I just see such a large gulf between "trade the farm" and "run it back with the QB we obviously don't want since we tried to trade the farm" that I can't believe there were no intermediate options.
It's out in the open. They were going to give up two drafts to get one.
The good news is that they were willing to trade not just for any QB, but the one that they believed would be the best. Otherwise they would have shown more interest in McCarthy, Penix, or Nix....which is what Gettleman would have done.
That seems more realistic. I'd be stunned if Schoen offered that much, or that Mara would be OK if he did so.
Quote:
In comment 16590490 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB.
So then if they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they they wanted…then that was their back up plan…what do you think they should have done?
I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right?
But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with
Sorry for the multiple post
If they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they wanted…that was their back up plan
What do you think they should have done?
I'm on record as wanting JJM. Obviously today that would look bad if he tore his meniscus here as well, but couldn't predict that at the time.
I just see such a large gulf between "trade the farm" and "run it back with the QB we obviously don't want since we tried to trade the farm" that I can't believe there were no intermediate options.
Maybe they ranked Jones ahead of all but the top 3 QBs in this draft? It's their necks on the line, so they have to go with their evaluations.
Quote:
In comment 16590494 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16590490 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB.
So then if they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they they wanted…then that was their back up plan…what do you think they should have done?
I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right?
But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with
Sorry for the multiple post
If they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they wanted…that was their back up plan
What do you think they should have done?
I'm on record as wanting JJM. Obviously today that would look bad if he tore his meniscus here as well, but couldn't predict that at the time.
I just see such a large gulf between "trade the farm" and "run it back with the QB we obviously don't want since we tried to trade the farm" that I can't believe there were no intermediate options.
Maybe they ranked Jones ahead of all but the top 3 QBs in this draft? It's their necks on the line, so they have to go with their evaluations.
If that's the case, oof!
Ask yourself why so many reports vary on what was or wasn’t offered. No one is saying the truth. They made an offer. That’s if. No one knows exact details and won’t know the exact details until the bodies are buried.
Exactly.
Quote:
In comment 16590569 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 16590494 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16590490 Mbavaro said:
Quote:
In comment 16590478 Scooter185 said:
Quote:
In comment 16590416 robbieballs2003 said:
Quote:
I can't wait to see the responses from thise crying over Schoen not doing enough to get a QB.
So then if they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they they wanted…then that was their back up plan…what do you think they should have done?
I don't mind not getting the trade done, takes two to tango right?
But for plan B to just be running it back with Jones after not being able to make a trade is what I have an issue with
Sorry for the multiple post
If they couldn’t get any of the QB’s they wanted…that was their back up plan
What do you think they should have done?
I'm on record as wanting JJM. Obviously today that would look bad if he tore his meniscus here as well, but couldn't predict that at the time.
I just see such a large gulf between "trade the farm" and "run it back with the QB we obviously don't want since we tried to trade the farm" that I can't believe there were no intermediate options.
Maybe they ranked Jones ahead of all but the top 3 QBs in this draft? It's their necks on the line, so they have to go with their evaluations.
If that's the case, oof!
Why is that an "oof!"?
We won't know the answer to that for likely another 3+ years when we see what these other 3 QBs turn into.
2024 1st & 3rd, 2025 1st
And Simmons is reporting:
2024 1st & 2nd & 3rd, 2025 1st & 2nd & 3rd
That's a huge difference.
It's well known that teams up their offers when on the clock. Offering the additional #2 and #3 is totally believable and probably likely.
Quote:
If Garafolo reported:
2024 1st & 3rd, 2025 1st
And Simmons is reporting:
2024 1st & 2nd & 3rd, 2025 1st & 2nd & 3rd
That's a huge difference.
It's well known that teams up their offers when on the clock. Offering the additional #2 and #3 is totally believable and probably likely.
And if you note, Hard Knocks did not include any trade talks with he Pats on the clock (or the Vikings, which we know they called the Giants).
Quote:
In comment 16590560 christian said:
Quote:
If Garafolo reported:
2024 1st & 3rd, 2025 1st
And Simmons is reporting:
2024 1st & 2nd & 3rd, 2025 1st & 2nd & 3rd
That's a huge difference.
It's well known that teams up their offers when on the clock. Offering the additional #2 and #3 is totally believable and probably likely.
And if you note, Hard Knocks did not include any trade talks with he Pats on the clock (or the Vikings, which we know they called the Giants).
It appeared to me that the Wolf/Schoen conversation where Wolf let him know they were not going to trade out took place long before they were on the clock....like before the draft actually started (Schoen was in his office not wearing a suit if I remember correctly.)
Yep
Doesn’t fit the “narrative”
From that it seems like a bit of a jump in the next four hours to officially go to 1,2,3 in 2024 and 1,2,3 in 2025. But more than anything, Hard Knocks decides not show that?
Maybe the Giants vetoed the final offer to the Pats being shown too. But those are the money shots.
If you think Maye is the guy, you give whatever you got to make it happen...and if you can take him...you don't trade out of the spot.
I don't think there's much NOT to believe here.
Plenty of teams have given up the farm to get a QB in the draft - sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't...but IMO..it's worth trying every time.
Maybe the Giants vetoed the final offer to the Pats being shown too. But those are the money shots.
In the HK teaser leading into the FA episode, they made it seem Schoen made an offer to Barkley. So, it's clear things were manipulated.
I get the sense it wasn't Wolf's call. I think Schoen knew that too. If what Simmons is saying is true, I'm encouraged at least. But, still upset seeing the QB depth chart.
If Schoen truly did offer 2024 and 2025 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounders, he should submit his resignation.
And if the he did make that offer and the Patriots rejected it, then they'll be cellar dwellers for a long time as they're being led by incompetents.
And if you note, Hard Knocks did not include any trade talks with he Pats on the clock (or the Vikings, which we know they called the Giants).
Right before the draft started, Schoen did his "what-if" walk-through with Mara and Tisch and said the opportunity to move up was off. So, they were focused on WRs, and if the sequence wasn't right, they would move down.
In other words, the opportunity was dead.
Quote:
And if you note, Hard Knocks did not include any trade talks with he Pats on the clock (or the Vikings, which we know they called the Giants).
Right before the draft started, Schoen did his "what-if" walk-through with Mara and Tisch and said the opportunity to move up was off. So, they were focused on WRs, and if the sequence wasn't right, they would move down.
In other words, the opportunity was dead.
That's a good point. Unless something was edited out, which it probably was not.
Based on what I'd heard and could glean from tea leaves, I suspect this was correct.
We know four hours before the draft, Wolf and Schoen exchange some broad parameters. In this conversation there's no reference to a standing offer of two year's worth of 1st, 2nd, and 3rd round picks. In fact Wolf comes out and says it would take something like that.
And we're to believe Schoen subsequently made an offer like that, and HBO decided not to include that dramatic moment in the program? That would have been the most compelling piece of offseason footage this decade.
Apparently the Giants had a lot of say about what went into the final cut of those episodes, so it could be they didn’t want that offer to get out. It could hurt efforts to move up next year if teams knew how much they offered the Pats.
Again, I’m not assuming that offer was really made. We don’t know where or how Simmons got that intel.
I think it has little to do with Maye and everything to do with removing Penix/JJM/Nix from the draft board at #6, even though they ultimately went 8, 10, 12. It's hard to believe our offensive genius coach couldn't work one of them into a good starter.
Apparently the Giants had a lot of say about what went into the final cut of those episodes, so it could be they didn’t want that offer to get out. It could hurt efforts to move up next year if teams knew how much they offered the Pats.
Schoen has said this was not true. The only content control they had was making sure their proprietary info - draft board, etc - could not be viewed.
I also wouldn't be surprised if Team Wolf took Schoen's comments to mean an offer of multiple picks in 2024 and 2025.
Reporting is a game of telephone. I think both reports could be reflective of what each party felt happened.
2024 1st & 3rd, 2025 1st
And Simmons is reporting:
2024 1st & 2nd & 3rd, 2025 1st & 2nd & 3rd
That's a huge difference.
Now in 2024, Jones is a bottom-3 QB who will sink the Giants season in his words.
Listen, I don't think the 2023 season can be dismissed but that's one hell of a swing lmao. On brand for him.
This.
My God, why wouldn't they do this, given the state of that roster?
I think there as been too much smoke around the supposed trade offer to the Pats for me to deny that Schoen is looking to upgrade the qb and wasn't just 'checking in' to see what the cost was. Regardless, information like this isn't verified as fact.
To me the smoke indicates that Schoen and the Giants felt Maye is a generational talent more than it reveals a strong desire to upgrade the QB position.
Maybe the Giants vetoed the final offer to the Pats being shown too. But those are the money shots.
My guess is the Giants did not want the real offer being broadcast. There is no good to the Giants in letting the world know that.
The problem is he gets hurt a lot and he isn't elite. He isn't in the top 5 tier and doesn't have the skills ever to be top 5. However, if you put talent around him like I think we have this year he will produce better than people think.
So just win the first two games and win with big throws down field that garner film and have defenses focused on the deep ball so we can begin to unravel a strong run game that churns. We need a ball control offense that can go over the top easily with deep speed to Nabers, Hyatt and Robinson.
Honestly, if Bellinger becomes that 60-650-5 type guy who gets the easy ones this offense will have the pieces to move the ball IF it stays healthy.
It's out in the open. They were going to give up two drafts to get one.
Maybe they know there's potentially a problem, but they don't know there's potentially more than one solution.
The words "Bill Simmons" in a thread title somehow can have that effect.
#1- at some point you have to know that you arent getting a deal and are wasting time and that this exposes your organization
How so? Well as people acknowledge this shows we dont like our QB and since you arent getting a trade, this only hurts you
Ex . If you are trying to buy a home and you are pursuing your “dream home “ and you keep offering more & more - beyond what you can reasonably pay but cant an acceptance
And now your lease is up so you have to renew and cant buy a different home
Would anyone say this is smart?
The Pats weren’t accepting a trade to 6 and everyone knew it. It doesn’t reflect well on us that we pursued it to the end and exposed Jones and opened up the fan base to expect a QB
#2- if the Giants felt they needed a QB that bad to make such a big offer to the point you have exposed you are “done” with Jones, then how is it possible you go into the year with no viable alternative?
This is why so many feel so unenthusiastic about the upcoming year
This is how you get Emmanuel Acho saying
“When you walk into an NFL locker room and Daniel Jones is your starting quarterback, you are admitting not just to the 53 players, plus the ten practice squad players, you are admitting to the fans, ‘We are submitting during the season, we are already saying mercy, we are losing.’
“You are betraying the entire organization when you make Daniel Jones the starter, because all of their work is void by starting Daniel Jones. That’s like adding all of the numbers into a calculator and hitting ‘times zero’--you will always end up with zero.”
But Chi, Wash are def taking QBs and NE has just as big or a bigger need than the Giants. Why would they trade back?
Most BBI’ers: “ Because asshat info has them saying they aren’t in love with Maye and want to trade back. So Schoen should do everything possible to get Maye. If that’s who you want, you trade everything you can to get it done.”
Most BBI’ers: “I don’t believe what Schefter, Rapoport, Garafolo and some asshats are reporting. They need to offer more. I know NE def wants to move down. JS is dropping the ball here.”
Most BBI’ers: “I don’t believe what I saw on Hard Knocks. JS sucks. He should’ve tried harder to move up.”
Most BBI’ers: “JS sucks. He loves DJ, gave him the worst contract ever. He doesn’t want to move on from him. It was all BS trying to move up for a QB. We’re in QB hell we’re never going to win. I can’t believe we’re running it back with the same QB.”
Now this report comes out proving Schoen and the Giants wanted to move on from DJ and tried everything they could to up for Maye….
Most BBI’ers:
“I don’t believe Simmons. I’m going to believe all the rumors I heard before and during the draft and what was shown on Hard Knocks.”
“I can’t believe Schoen offered that much. That’s way too much!”
But but but you said you wanted to move up no matter the cost. Schoen tried to get it done but NE said no because they wanted Maye as much if not more than we did. There’s nothing more Schoen could’ve done. Is shows he 100% tried to move on from DJ…
Most BBI’ers: I can’t believe we’re stuck with DJ another year. I can’t believe he didn’t try harder to move up. Garafolo said a 1&2 and a 1 next year. That didn’t get it done. They should’ve offered more. But I can’t believe he offered that much that’s crazy.
That pretty much sums it up in a nutshell around here. Can’t make it up…
I have no issue walking away from a trade if the price was ridiculous, my issue is the lack of a better Plan B.
#1- at some point you have to know that you arent getting a deal and are wasting time and that this exposes your organization
How so? Well as people acknowledge this shows we dont like our QB and since you arent getting a trade, this only hurts you
Ex . If you are trying to buy a home and you are pursuing your “dream home “ and you keep offering more & more - beyond what you can reasonably pay but cant an acceptance
And now your lease is up so you have to renew and cant buy a different home
Would anyone say this is smart?
The Pats weren’t accepting a trade to 6 and everyone knew it. It doesn’t reflect well on us that we pursued it to the end and exposed Jones and opened up the fan base to expect a QB
#2- if the Giants felt they needed a QB that bad to make such a big offer to the point you have exposed you are “done” with Jones, then how is it possible you go into the year with no viable alternative?
This is why so many feel so unenthusiastic about the upcoming year
This is how you get Emmanuel Acho saying
“When you walk into an NFL locker room and Daniel Jones is your starting quarterback, you are admitting not just to the 53 players, plus the ten practice squad players, you are admitting to the fans, ‘We are submitting during the season, we are already saying mercy, we are losing.’
“You are betraying the entire organization when you make Daniel Jones the starter, because all of their work is void by starting Daniel Jones. That’s like adding all of the numbers into a calculator and hitting ‘times zero’--you will always end up with zero.”
That’s a pretty bad take.
1) No matter what they weren’t going far this year regardless. This is still a rebuilding team. There’s glaring needs at CB, DL, backup edge rusher and possibly OL.
2) They were in love with Nabers. He has the chance to be in the same conversation with Chase, Jefferson, Lamb. He’s an elite prospect which they desperately needed on offense.
3) They obviously weren’t high on JJM, Nix or Penix. They had Nabers with a much higher grade. Watching hard knocks there was no other mention of taking a QB. If Nabers went 5, they were trying to trade back and take Bowers. They didn’t believe in the other QBs.
4) DJ still was guaranteed to be on this team this year no matter what. There were no QBs available in a trade or FA that would make us into a contender.
And going back to my first point. It’s still a rebuilding team. They got some nice building blocks in this draft and FA. This wasn’t an all in year. Why was it QB or bust this year? Most teams at the top of the draft don’t need a QB next year. The Raiders and Giants… and possibly the Titans need QBs the most. If DJ is terrible like you all claim he is then we should have a very good shot at the 1st QB taken next year. So say getting Beck, who might be a better prospect than Maye and getting Nabers who’s one of the best WR coming out since Chase this year sets this team up for a good future.
End of story.
Now in 2024, Jones is a bottom-3 QB who will sink the Giants season in his words.
Listen, I don't think the 2023 season can be dismissed but that's one hell of a swing lmao. On brand for him.
TOTALLY on brand for him, except that he usually does that week-to-week.