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| @Schultz_Report Sources: The #Giants brought in CB Adoree' Jackson for a physical today and negotiations are underway on a deal to bring him back. A deal is not done, but the two sides are very interested. The Giants have been looking to add another viable corner. |
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Walls and Duerson.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
He'll be 29 Sept. 18.
I recall speculation that both Giants and AJ had a 'if not married by 30, give me a call' type relationship.
Making a premature assumption of a contract, will be interesting if it comes before, or after, the season begins and the vet, on the roster, guarantee is in play.
So why the shock and surprise and especially the outrage?
Jackson and the Giants know exactly what they're getting. If either side could do better, they'd be with someone else.
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In comment 16591561 aquidneck said:
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Walls and Duerson.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
He'll be 29 Sept. 18.
Oh well in that case I guess it's time to put him down.
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That applies to both Adoree and the Giants.
Kind of sad that we are beggars. I was hoping that Flott would be able to make the move to CB2 but I guess with his injury in camp the coaches don't feel confident in him.
I think you can seriously question Schoen's decisions here. Based on Hard Knocks, he was banking on a starting-quality outside CB being available in the 2nd round. When does that ever happen?
And then based on the beats' reports, he was hoping that a CB would be available after cut day, but that seems risky as well. And of course nothing materialized.
Just gets you to wondering if we had traded down a few spots and taken Odunze instead of Nabers whether we could have gained enough ammo to move up in the 2nd and been able to grab one of the available starting-caliber outside CB's instead of waiting and taking Nubin and later Dru Phillips, who is more suited for the slot position. Guess time will tell whether Nabers lights it up enough to make the difference between him and Odunze overshadow what could have equated to a starting outside CB.
Perhaps some of Jacksons issues last year were with Martindale??
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In comment 16591518 Paulie Walnuts said:
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They'll draft a cb next year high
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
Spending the picks isn’t the issue alone, in today’s NFL DB is a need for almost every team every year
It’s the whiffing on picks, or failing to develop them or both (at all positions) that’s killed the Giants the past decade
^This. It's not so much the volume of picks, it's the lack of return. The two are of course related because the latter definitely influences the former. We have to keep drafting CBs because we can't properly evaluate which CBs to draft. We've had the same problem with the OL. Having to constantly redraft the same position group is a telltale sign of bad drafting.
Remember DeAndre Baker? We spent three picks on him, including a first.
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Walls and Duerson.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
Football years are like dog years.
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In comment 16591564 HBart said:
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In comment 16591561 aquidneck said:
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Walls and Duerson.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
He'll be 29 Sept. 18.
Oh well in that case I guess it's time to put him down.
No.
He's just not really 28.
Can he help? Maybe.
Or I could be reading this all wrong.
Like hearing that.
Were the Giants actually looking to sign Witherspoon?
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to get Witherspoon to sign. Clock is ticking.
Were the Giants actually looking to sign Witherspoon?
I think there's a hint of asshattery here. Hope it proves true
The play where he was trailing the receiver, but stuck his hand out and knocked it away before the WR could catch it and gain a sizeable YAC.
+1. We traded one of the few third round picks we hit on, B.J. Hill, for Billy Price. We also added a seventh round pick to the deal. Fantastic.
week 2 against arizona he played well. allowed 4 rec on 6 targets for 40 yards, no tds.
week 3 his reps were all against Deebo, CMC, kittle. he allowed 4 rec on 7 targets for 77 yards and 1 td to deebo with 1 pbu. again not great but that's not an easy matchup to win. i remember deebo making a bunch of difficult 3rd down catches.
week 4 he faced lockett and jsn, allowed 3 rec on 4 targets for 34 yards.
week 5 he faced tyreek and cedrick wilson, alloed 4/4 for 46 yards, no tds. in a game with a ton of big plays by hill they apparently werent against him (tyreek's 69 yard td was on hawkins, the guy adoree is likely going to replace on the roster).
week 6 against buf he faced diggs/shakir, allowed 4/4 for 63 yards, no tds.
he missed week 7 vs WSH with a neck injury - so up until that that point the 1/3 mark of the season he'd only allowed 1 td to deebo.
week 8 he held lazard to 3/4 for 45 yards - and none of them were in the slot. so it looks like that experiment ended midseason.
week 9 he held davante adams to 1 reception for 6 yards.
weeks 10/11 he was again out with a concussion/neck injury.
week 12 vs NE he only allowed 3 rec on 6 targets for 12 yards.
week 14 he held doubs to 1 rec on 4 targets for 5 yards.
week 15 he gave up his 2nd and final td of the year to juwan johnson which was 23 yards. allowed 4 catches on 4 targets for 74 yards in the game.
week 16 philly he allowed 6 rec on 12 targets for 66 yards with an INT and no tds.
week 17 vs LAR he allowed 6/11 for 135 including an 80 yarder which had 77 rac yards to puka (no tds). id guess that was a missed tackle.
week 18 vs philly he allowed 6/8 for 65 yards no tds.
bottom line we all watched the games and know he wasnt as good as 2022 on the field at at any point. i dont doubt he was making some business decisions along the way - especially after the head/neck injuries. but playing slot those first few weeks was a failed experiment that im sure wasnt his idea. he played the best WRs in the league in those first 10 weeks and held his own - and most importantly unlike hawkins wasnt giving up 50+ yard tds. you cannot roster and play players who give up plays like that regularly, and hawkins tackling is even worse than jacksons (which was at times not bad). this is a no risk add.
Or I could be reading this all wrong.
He won't be getting big money. Second, it's really unlikely a guy who hasn't practice in 8 months is going to play much next Sunday after 3 or 4 practices.
Wouldn't be against it. But bringing in a guy with a big injury history and rushing him into games would be pretty risky.
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In comment 16591564 HBart said:
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In comment 16591561 aquidneck said:
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Walls and Duerson.
I know those names are arbitrary and useless, but as a fan of a certain age adding an old guy at DB just before the season starts invites a certain kind of nostalgia.
Best of luck to Adoree if he signs.
28 is old?
He'll be 29 Sept. 18.
Oh well in that case I guess it's time to put him down.
There is less than nothing that speaks of desperation here. A player is available that might improve the team. Jackson didn't play great last year and had a handful of frustrating misses but he didn't suck. There's tremendous value to the team (any team) in familiar, proven players if they fill a need.
And football is a team sport. Should this signing come to pass we may be stunned at how well he plays when he's really just the same guy surrounded by more talent in a better system and with better leadership.
agreed, should not have come to this and pretty poor reflection that after a full offseason of it as a known area of weakness they let it get to this.
I get that it will happen in a league where such great value is placed on familiarity, but you'd like to do this type of stuff with maybe your 3rd RB, 4th WR, swing T or some other depth position. Not one of your starting corners.
I'm not alarmist by any means, but Schoen and Daboll keep drifting further from their year 1 success in my opinion. The odds are stacked against them having a solid year 3.
if they need an outside corner i think definitely adoree. king has bounced around a lot and i assume it's for good reason. he's been scrapping deals like this one for adoree for several seasons now without sticking anywhere.
if the needed a slot then maybe you go king bc he has played there a lot more.
witherspoon vs adoree is a close call outside either way, witherspoon maybe higher floor, adoree maybe higher ceiling.
Schoen & co. have almost entirely turned over the roster in 3 seasons. We only had 6 picks this past draft (most people believe Burns was worth a 2nd and 5th). As mentioned above, guys like Walls and Madison were older vets added shortly before the season and helped us greatly.
Also, it's been suggested this is a contingency & possibly motivation for Witherspoon. I wouldn't judge this visit just yet.
But on the Giants the league notices.
Let's hope he is all in....as he saw his NFL life reaching the end.
Neither the player, nor the Giants wanted this.....built off of necessity.
Could be a nice 1 year win/win!
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Indictment in the front office. And not a good one.
agreed, should not have come to this and pretty poor reflection that after a full offseason of it as a known area of weakness they let it get to this.
Depending on if he signs, and for how much, it's quite possibly precisely the opposite: a great move by the FO.
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Indictment in the front office. And not a good one.
agreed, should not have come to this and pretty poor reflection that after a full offseason of it as a known area of weakness they let it get to this.
Exactly, especially after they knew for two seasons it was heading in this direction.
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In comment 16591518 Paulie Walnuts said:
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They'll draft a cb next year high
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
how do you say that. Are the Giants picking more DB's than other teams with "premium picks". Every year there are like 6 db's drafted in the first round. News flash -- It is a premium position.
What exactly are you arguing? Check the Giants draft history in the first three rounds of the draft for the past 10 years and get back to me.
week 2 against arizona he played well. allowed 4 rec on 6 targets for 40 yards, no tds.
week 3 his reps were all against Deebo, CMC, kittle. he allowed 4 rec on 7 targets for 77 yards and 1 td to deebo with 1 pbu. again not great but that's not an easy matchup to win. i remember deebo making a bunch of difficult 3rd down catches.
week 4 he faced lockett and jsn, allowed 3 rec on 4 targets for 34 yards.
week 5 he faced tyreek and cedrick wilson, alloed 4/4 for 46 yards, no tds. in a game with a ton of big plays by hill they apparently werent against him (tyreek's 69 yard td was on hawkins, the guy adoree is likely going to replace on the roster).
week 6 against buf he faced diggs/shakir, allowed 4/4 for 63 yards, no tds.
he missed week 7 vs WSH with a neck injury - so up until that that point the 1/3 mark of the season he'd only allowed 1 td to deebo.
week 8 he held lazard to 3/4 for 45 yards - and none of them were in the slot. so it looks like that experiment ended midseason.
week 9 he held davante adams to 1 reception for 6 yards.
weeks 10/11 he was again out with a concussion/neck injury.
week 12 vs NE he only allowed 3 rec on 6 targets for 12 yards.
week 14 he held doubs to 1 rec on 4 targets for 5 yards.
week 15 he gave up his 2nd and final td of the year to juwan johnson which was 23 yards. allowed 4 catches on 4 targets for 74 yards in the game.
week 16 philly he allowed 6 rec on 12 targets for 66 yards with an INT and no tds.
week 17 vs LAR he allowed 6/11 for 135 including an 80 yarder which had 77 rac yards to puka (no tds). id guess that was a missed tackle.
week 18 vs philly he allowed 6/8 for 65 yards no tds.
bottom line we all watched the games and know he wasnt as good as 2022 on the field at at any point. i dont doubt he was making some business decisions along the way - especially after the head/neck injuries. but playing slot those first few weeks was a failed experiment that im sure wasnt his idea. he played the best WRs in the league in those first 10 weeks and held his own - and most importantly unlike hawkins wasnt giving up 50+ yard tds. you cannot roster and play players who give up plays like that regularly, and hawkins tackling is even worse than jacksons (which was at times not bad). this is a no risk add.
Great research Eric. I’m feeling better now….sign him and cut Hawkins….i would feel better.
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In comment 16591520 sb from NYT Forum said:
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In comment 16591518 Paulie Walnuts said:
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They'll draft a cb next year high
The amount of premium draft picks that the Giants have spend on DBs in the past 10 years is mind-boggling.
Spending the picks isn’t the issue alone, in today’s NFL DB is a need for almost every team every year
It’s the whiffing on picks, or failing to develop them or both (at all positions) that’s killed the Giants the past decade
^This. It's not so much the volume of picks, it's the lack of return. The two are of course related because the latter definitely influences the former. We have to keep drafting CBs because we can't properly evaluate which CBs to draft. We've had the same problem with the OL. Having to constantly redraft the same position group is a telltale sign of bad drafting.
Remember DeAndre Baker? We spent three picks on him, including a first.
This exactly, and this was my point (some here--not you and Paulie--are too dense to understand unless it's completely spelled out for them, apparently). The Giants have used 1/3 of their Day 1 and Day 2 picks on DBs because they keep whiffing on guys like Apple, Darrin Thompson, Baker, Beal and Robinson. And I guess Flott if the coaches don't want him starting. Guys that actually hit, like Love and McKinney, they let walk.
The Giants do not feel that they can acquire a front-line CB.
Jackson as the second or third CB is better than Hawkins, Flott, McCloud, or Phillips.
He is not a slot corner but can hold his own, playing on the outside.
His tackling and run support is less than desirable.
The Giants can scheme around his deficiencies.
He is more of a man cover rather than zone CB. But zone coverage is a misnomer. There can be man-coverage within a zone concept. Jackson can be effective if he is used properly.
they easily could have. they visited both tredavious white and darious williams in march, both got reasonable deals. whatever they give adoree + the dead money they are eating from some FA signings they cut already (holmes, mills, jordan phillips) could have paid for them and they can easily create more space if they want right now.
it's clear adoree jackson wasnt a priority for them so that they had to settle instead of getting guys they prioritized as potential upgrades is a swing and miss.
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Unless you're delusional enough to believe they could have solved Tackle, both guard spots, WR, pass rush, starting CB and RB all in one offseason.
they easily could have. they visited both tredavious white and darious williams in march, both got reasonable deals. whatever they give adoree + the dead money they are eating from some FA signings they cut already (holmes, mills, jordan phillips) could have paid for them and they can easily create more space if they want right now.
it's clear adoree jackson wasnt a priority for them so that they had to settle instead of getting guys they prioritized as potential upgrades is a swing and miss.
Lay out how they could filled every position then. "They easily could have" doesnt cut it. They are right on the cap, every dollar was spent filling other gaping holes. If they got the CB, they probably dont get one of the other positions. It was always realistically going to be a trade off.
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In comment 16591676 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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Unless you're delusional enough to believe they could have solved Tackle, both guard spots, WR, pass rush, starting CB and RB all in one offseason.
they easily could have. they visited both tredavious white and darious williams in march, both got reasonable deals. whatever they give adoree + the dead money they are eating from some FA signings they cut already (holmes, mills, jordan phillips) could have paid for them and they can easily create more space if they want right now.
it's clear adoree jackson wasnt a priority for them so that they had to settle instead of getting guys they prioritized as potential upgrades is a swing and miss.
Lay out how they could filled every position then. "They easily could have" doesnt cut it. They are right on the cap, every dollar was spent filling other gaping holes. If they got the CB, they probably dont get one of the other positions. It was always realistically going to be a trade off.
they are right at the cap by design (see below & link) and i did lay out exactly how they could have filled this particular position that we know they considered a major need in HK with a player we know they liked. so to repeat:
tredavious white's (who they hosted on a FA visit in March) cap # right now is 3.48m for LAR for 1 year, a deal signed in mid-april after the giants meeting. dead money to the vet FAs they've already cut plus whatever they pay adoree will likely equal very close to that same amount. they actually hosted darious williams first, his cap # is slightly higher at 4.6m.
white signed with LAR after nyg gave jalen mills $500k gtd on 3/13, resigned darnay holmes (100k gtd) on march 20th, and just before they signed jordan phillips with $500k guaranteed and matthew adams with 1m guaranteed on 4/12. probably money that had been part of their offer to white that the rams beat, which they could have easily upped if they wanted to. we arent talking about big chunks of $ here.
https://overthecap.com/restructure - ( New Window )