lack of interest that the league had in him will both humble and inspire Adoree. He hasn’t played well as a Giant . His post-game comments have always been blame-shifting , “dog ate my homework,” “I had my coverage down, he …” variety . I’ve said this before : his act is reminiscent of a Jackson from a different era-Terry Jackson .
He might be an improvement . But he probably won’t be. I can see the Giants being pretty good this season. If Daboll and Nabers help raise the play of their QB, maybe even better than that . But this is a “coverages” oriented defense . The corners worry me. I’m not completely convinced by Banks yet .
Titians 2022 couldnt stop the pass. Titans 2023 couldn’t stop the run and the pass in the same game, it was one or the other but not both. I think there is room for skepticism.
The Giants have to be one of the laughing stocks of the NFL. They made no attempt to re-sign Jackson and there wasn’t exactly a crowd trying to sign him. Then, a week before the season, when they realize their appraisal of the secondary was deficient, he’s the savior. Check.
The “laughing stock of the NFL” because they signed a veteran CB which is the biggest weakness on the team and outside of offensive line- the biggest demand in the NFL. A veteran CB who hasn’t lost athleticism and is now a fraction of the cost.
You’re constantly a laughing stock here and my guess is most likely in your life you miserable old fuck.
No one will miss you as usual when things eventually turn well and you disappear- and I have a feeling that’s also the same in your life outside here as well.
We are in for a long season cause Adoree Jackson is past his prime and the guys behind them aren't starters.
You pray Banks is superb especially in the redzone.
You pray Nubin, Belton, Phillips and Pinnock all develop quickly together and make for a formidable group.
We can't afford to lose our first two games because our secondary gets exploited by weaker teams who can feast on a new scheme and young guys.
If we start 0 - 2 it is OVER for this season. There isn't enough talent to do better than 3-3 the next six tougher games and hope to come out better than .500 the rest of the way. The pundits may be right and perhaps we are in for a six win season despite a better overall talent base than last year.
Schoen missed on E. Neal and JMS (maybe...TBD) and that crushes the future cause if they were both Top 10 or 12 we'd be strong on offense this year without a doubt.
He is a proven veteran at a position where we don't have tons of veterans or depth. I'll take it.
No, I think we were hoping that the front office and the coaches knew what they were doing going into preseason with Flott, McCloud or Hawkins at CB2. But apparently not.
Kind of like last year with RG and swing tackle.
Great point. These coaches are fucking morons for letting the their planned CB2 get hurt and miss all preseason. Hard to believe any team would employ such yokels.
They didn’t want to sign him for $8 million multi year
emerge so we don't sign have to Kenny Golladay. ;)
Anyway, I was really hoping we would roll with the young corners and live with the growing pains. I never mind OTJT.
I think the posters who are critical of this move based on AJax's performance last raise good points. I have never been a big fan of rewarding bad behavior. But sometimes second chances do work...
I do hope he's on a short leash.
depends on the contract.
vet min wage 1 year prove it deal is NOT a reward. It's a 'we think you got something left in the tank, but you ain't earned shit' deal.
A Golladay deal? That would be cause to tune out for a couple of years until Schoen 'retires'. I'm not a Schoen fan, but I find it hard to believe anyone (in the professional ranks, they're dime a dozen in the fan ranks) can be Gettleman bad.
Titians 2022 couldnt stop the pass. Titans 2023 couldn’t stop the run and the pass in the same game, it was one or the other but not both. I think there is room for skepticism.
The Giants have to be one of the laughing stocks of the NFL. They made no attempt to re-sign Jackson and there wasn’t exactly a crowd trying to sign him. Then, a week before the season, when they realize their appraisal of the secondary was deficient, he’s the savior. Check.
You should change your name to HaterJones45
RE: If Banks isn't a top quarter of the league corner
We are in for a long season cause Adoree Jackson is past his prime and the guys behind them aren't starters.
You pray Banks is superb especially in the redzone.
You pray Nubin, Belton, Phillips and Pinnock all develop quickly together and make for a formidable group.
We can't afford to lose our first two games because our secondary gets exploited by weaker teams who can feast on a new scheme and young guys.
If we start 0 - 2 it is OVER for this season. There isn't enough talent to do better than 3-3 the next six tougher games and hope to come out better than .500 the rest of the way. The pundits may be right and perhaps we are in for a six win season despite a better overall talent base than last year.
Schoen missed on E. Neal and JMS (maybe...TBD) and that crushes the future cause if they were both Top 10 or 12 we'd be strong on offense this year without a doubt.
Jackson is 28 homie. You have no idea if he's past his prime or not.
The more I think about Adoree resigning the more I like it.
I subscribe to the theory that this was preplanned and orchestrated in advance.
The Giants and Adoree must have been in conversations and had a deal in place.
Adoree stayed in shape on his own and the Giants preferred to bring him in after the final protected roster was established.
The extra week before the first game allows Adoree the time to get up to speed.
The Giants could maneuver the roster by putting a player on IR and replacing that player with Adoree.
I think that Adoree was the Giants' preferred free-agent corner. Despite Jackson's limitations, the Giants know what they have with Adoree.
They will use him as a cover corner. He will be used to shadow an opponent's receiver. In zone coverage, you need two cover corners. You do not rotate your corners.
The Giants will scheme, how best to take advantage of
Jackson's strengths and conceal his weaknesses
RE: RE: If Banks isn't a top quarter of the league corner
We are in for a long season cause Adoree Jackson is past his prime and the guys behind them aren't starters.
You pray Banks is superb especially in the redzone.
You pray Nubin, Belton, Phillips and Pinnock all develop quickly together and make for a formidable group.
We can't afford to lose our first two games because our secondary gets exploited by weaker teams who can feast on a new scheme and young guys.
If we start 0 - 2 it is OVER for this season. There isn't enough talent to do better than 3-3 the next six tougher games and hope to come out better than .500 the rest of the way. The pundits may be right and perhaps we are in for a six win season despite a better overall talent base than last year.
Schoen missed on E. Neal and JMS (maybe...TBD) and that crushes the future cause if they were both Top 10 or 12 we'd be strong on offense this year without a doubt.
Jackson is 28 homie. You have no idea if he's past his prime or not.
He'll be 29 on Sept. 18.
Now, please don't take this as I'm saying he's too old, just stating a fact that he won't be 28 by game 3.
No one minds rolling with the young guys until they suck and then the complaints roll in that the GM is incompetent because he didn’t bring in any veterans for depth. Rinse and repeat
Agree with the posters who said the Giants most likely kept in touch. Corner injuries and probably some concerns with some not developing enough to this point.
Hopefully Banks steps up. You don't want your 2nd corner becoming a liability where QB's are targeting him. Demoralizing to the D and overall effort of the team.
Agree with the posters who said the Giants most likely kept in touch. Corner injuries and probably some concerns with some not developing enough to this point.
Hopefully Banks steps up. You don't want your 2nd corner becoming a liability where QB's are targeting him. Demoralizing to the D and overall effort of the team.
This was the narrative all year. It was a 'if you're not married by 30, look me up' relationship.
He overestimated his position, and now he comes down to reality.
by accepting a. deal, he locks it in for the year, assuming he's on the roster week 1.
In return, the Giants get a decent player, who is motivated to perform.
Or, he's shot, and the Giants blow a minimum contract on a loser.
$500,000 in incentives. I think he's here to compete for a job, not to be handed one.
cant argue with the price. hopefully all's well that ends well, had he been willing to basically sign for same deal they got Mills on back in March they probably would have done it.
I have no idea but I’ll start
3.5m mil base
500k in Easy to reach incentives
1 mil in Difficult to reach incentives
If both aides are amenable, they can use the definition of NLTBE to push a big chunk of Jackson’s cap hit into 2025 while paying him like a starting corner if that’s what he is. A few possible targets:
- 15-17 games played
- 90% of defensive snaps
- 2 interceptions (might be legitimately NLTBE, considering his hands)
They could also do some team incentives, punt return targets, etc. Of course, it takes two to tango.
Eric on LI: I think that was Willie Young’s guess…
ah missed that it was a guessing game. ill guess 2m guaranteed/cap hit plus 1.5m ntlbe incentives.
signing him to the league minimum would have essentially be 1m guaranteed at this stage, so my guess is they gave a chunk above that plus incentives that only hit if he plays well enough to keep his job.
RE: RE: RE: I feel like some people expect the Giants to sign a Pro Bowler on 8/30
He is a proven veteran at a position where we don't have tons of veterans or depth. I'll take it.
No, I think we were hoping that the front office and the coaches knew what they were doing going into preseason with Flott, McCloud or Hawkins at CB2. But apparently not.
Kind of like last year with RG and swing tackle.
Great point. These coaches are fucking morons for letting the their planned CB2 get hurt and miss all preseason. Hard to believe any team would employ such yokels.
It really depends on how much Adoree has left in the tank. He was not good last year. Was it an off year or is he on a steep decline. Even at his best, he was a good CB, not great.
I think this says more about what they think about any CB not named Banks than what they expect from Jackson.
Is there to not like this signing? It's not a trade; we didn't give up anything. We don't know contract value, so can't complain about overpaying (yet anyway).
Jackson wasn't awful last season; his missed tackles were infuriating, but he just led the top of a long list with that issue. His coverage outside was fine; not shut down, and he's not going to be paid like one.
Possible scenarios (at least one of Flott/Hawkins/McLoud performing well enough to warrant CB2 over the season is Plan A).
Plan A works/Adoree plays well. The problem is?
Plan A works/Adoree bombs. They bought insurance/vet depth and it didn't work out. No harm, no foul.
Plan A fails/Adoree plays well. Fabulous signing saves the day.
Plan A fails/Adoree bombs. Let the arrows fly for inability to evaluate talent - but not for trying to upgrade/buy insurance before the season starts.
Didn’t Jackson have a reputation for being better in zone than in
Titians 2022 couldnt stop the pass. Titans 2023 couldn’t stop the run and the pass in the same game, it was one or the other but not both. I think there is room for skepticism.
The Giants have to be one of the laughing stocks of the NFL. They made no attempt to re-sign Jackson and there wasn’t exactly a crowd trying to sign him. Then, a week before the season, when they realize their appraisal of the secondary was deficient, he’s the savior. Check.
The “laughing stock of the NFL” because they signed a veteran CB which is the biggest weakness on the team and outside of offensive line- the biggest demand in the NFL. A veteran CB who hasn’t lost athleticism and is now a fraction of the cost.
You’re constantly a laughing stock here and my guess is most likely in your life you miserable old fuck.
No one will miss you as usual when things eventually turn well and you disappear- and I have a feeling that’s also the same in your life outside here as well.
Awwww did da big bad man hurt you widdow feewings? I think you are a little old to be name-calling on a message board like a 12 year old.
But no doubt, you are correct and the other GM's all consider Schoen an astute judge of talent, a prodigy at self scouting and a cunning adversary.
Jackson gave up the 9th most pass yards of any defender last year. His problem was both coverage and run support.
There's a reason he's available 9 days before the season, and likely drew an incentives-based contract.
Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
The only way this is a good signing is if Jackson plays well.
Jackson gave up the 9th most pass yards of any defender last year. His problem was both coverage and run support.
There's a reason he's available 9 days before the season, and likely drew an incentives-based contract.
Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
The only way this is a good signing is if Jackson plays well.
I mostly agree and that's my point - at this point we can't known; all we know is it can't hurt.
A second scenario is if the secondary plays well without him because other guys play better and we don't really see him. Doubtful, but that would make it an OK at worst signing.
Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
In other words the issue is the reality of player development: sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I do not follow how it doesn't make them better at cornerback, if he plays as an average starter. It quantifiably does, since they did not have average quality before.
RE: If Banks isn't a top quarter of the league corner
We are in for a long season cause Adoree Jackson is past his prime and the guys behind them aren't starters.
You pray Banks is superb especially in the redzone.
You pray Nubin, Belton, Phillips and Pinnock all develop quickly together and make for a formidable group.
We can't afford to lose our first two games because our secondary gets exploited by weaker teams who can feast on a new scheme and young guys.
If we start 0 - 2 it is OVER for this season. There isn't enough talent to do better than 3-3 the next six tougher games and hope to come out better than .500 the rest of the way. The pundits may be right and perhaps we are in for a six win season despite a better overall talent base than last year.
Schoen missed on E. Neal and JMS (maybe...TBD) and that crushes the future cause if they were both Top 10 or 12 we'd be strong on offense this year without a doubt.
Adoree is past his prime at 28 years old, soon to be 29. How old is Stephon Gilmore? He will be 34 this month. Is he past his prime 5 years older than Jackson? And he had a decent year last year.
Adoree had a good first half…he kind of quit at the end when I think he knew he was on his last leg in NY and probably didn’t want to get hurt. I think he will be motivated with a contract heavily weighted for incentives.
By the way SGMen…when did you become so pessimistic?
Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
In other words the issue is the reality of player development: sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I do not follow how it doesn't make them better at cornerback, if he plays as an average starter. It quantifiably does, since they did not have average quality before.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Jackson is a better option than what they have... It just sucks that Jackson is a better option than what they have.
CB2 was a big need. In March they met with both Tre'Davious White and Darious Williams to fill that role. The fact that they had those meetings, and what Schoen said during Hard Knocks about wanting to draft a CB in the 2nd round tells me that they weren't satisfied with what they had on the roster for CB2. But for whatever reason they waited until 8 days before the season to address it. That's what's frustrating.
Titians 2022 couldnt stop the pass. Titans 2023 couldn’t stop the run and the pass in the same game, it was one or the other but not both. I think there is room for skepticism.
The Giants have to be one of the laughing stocks of the NFL. They made no attempt to re-sign Jackson and there wasn’t exactly a crowd trying to sign him. Then, a week before the season, when they realize their appraisal of the secondary was deficient, he’s the savior. Check.
The “laughing stock of the NFL” because they signed a veteran CB which is the biggest weakness on the team and outside of offensive line- the biggest demand in the NFL. A veteran CB who hasn’t lost athleticism and is now a fraction of the cost.
You’re constantly a laughing stock here and my guess is most likely in your life you miserable old fuck.
No one will miss you as usual when things eventually turn well and you disappear- and I have a feeling that’s also the same in your life outside here as well.
I too have not anointed Bowen as the savior on our defense….I’m not sure he will be as effective as Wink was….and I know Wink had some misses, but I believe in his two years here, he had more hits. I will be following our defensive progress very closely. With 4 stars of the 11, you would think we should be pretty decent, wouldn’t you think?
For those crying about the lack of player development
Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
In other words the issue is the reality of player development: sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I do not follow how it doesn't make them better at cornerback, if he plays as an average starter. It quantifiably does, since they did not have average quality before.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Jackson is a better option than what they have... It just sucks that Jackson is a better option than what they have.
CB2 was a big need. In March they met with both Tre'Davious White and Darious Williams to fill that role. The fact that they had those meetings, and what Schoen said during Hard Knocks about wanting to draft a CB in the 2nd round tells me that they weren't satisfied with what they had on the roster for CB2. But for whatever reason they waited until 8 days before the season to address it. That's what's frustrating.
There were 5-6 big needs that needed to be attended to in march. While I can see why it might be frustrating, I also see why this played out the way it did, and I'm having trouble understanding why other people dont see it.
You needed two guards, a RT, a WR. Are we paying Saquon? Need to have money for that or his replacement. Got a QB in ACL rehab. We've invested into a couple of Corners. Can we fix these other holes, and give the prospects we have a chance to show how they've developed and maybe solve that problem internally, or do we want to spend the money on CB before the draft, leaving one of the other gaps open?
Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
In other words the issue is the reality of player development: sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I do not follow how it doesn't make them better at cornerback, if he plays as an average starter. It quantifiably does, since they did not have average quality before.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Jackson is a better option than what they have... It just sucks that Jackson is a better option than what they have.
CB2 was a big need. In March they met with both Tre'Davious White and Darious Williams to fill that role. The fact that they had those meetings, and what Schoen said during Hard Knocks about wanting to draft a CB in the 2nd round tells me that they weren't satisfied with what they had on the roster for CB2. But for whatever reason they waited until 8 days before the season to address it. That's what's frustrating.
There were 5-6 big needs that needed to be attended to in march. While I can see why it might be frustrating, I also see why this played out the way it did, and I'm having trouble understanding why other people dont see it.
You needed two guards, a RT, a WR. Are we paying Saquon? Need to have money for that or his replacement. Got a QB in ACL rehab. We've invested into a couple of Corners. Can we fix these other holes, and give the prospects we have a chance to show how they've developed and maybe solve that problem internally, or do we want to spend the money on CB before the draft, leaving one of the other gaps open?
I agree that the failure for a Giants draft pick/signing to not win the he CB #2 job is not good
But now is the time to fix that failure
Not reacting to the failure cannot be the correct move.
Not only that but Schoen is buying at the right time. Whether he assessed the market correctly or it just worked out, Adoree has always been out there and he wasn't alone -- there's been optionality at DB from day one.
RE: RE: For those crying about the lack of player development
I agree that the failure for a Giants draft pick/signing to not win the he CB #2 job is not good
But now is the time to fix that failure
Not reacting to the failure cannot be the correct move.
Not only that but Schoen is buying at the right time. Whether he assessed the market correctly or it just worked out, Adoree has always been out there and he wasn't alone -- there's been optionality at DB from day one.
Exactly.
This was definitely the plan if one of the guys on the roster did not show enough.
It would have been wrong (and more expensive) to bring in the the vet early
It would have been wrong to not do it now
He might be an improvement . But he probably won’t be. I can see the Giants being pretty good this season. If Daboll and Nabers help raise the play of their QB, maybe even better than that . But this is a “coverages” oriented defense . The corners worry me. I’m not completely convinced by Banks yet .
The Giants have to be one of the laughing stocks of the NFL. They made no attempt to re-sign Jackson and there wasn’t exactly a crowd trying to sign him. Then, a week before the season, when they realize their appraisal of the secondary was deficient, he’s the savior. Check.
The “laughing stock of the NFL” because they signed a veteran CB which is the biggest weakness on the team and outside of offensive line- the biggest demand in the NFL. A veteran CB who hasn’t lost athleticism and is now a fraction of the cost.
You’re constantly a laughing stock here and my guess is most likely in your life you miserable old fuck.
No one will miss you as usual when things eventually turn well and you disappear- and I have a feeling that’s also the same in your life outside here as well.
You pray Banks is superb especially in the redzone.
You pray Nubin, Belton, Phillips and Pinnock all develop quickly together and make for a formidable group.
We can't afford to lose our first two games because our secondary gets exploited by weaker teams who can feast on a new scheme and young guys.
If we start 0 - 2 it is OVER for this season. There isn't enough talent to do better than 3-3 the next six tougher games and hope to come out better than .500 the rest of the way. The pundits may be right and perhaps we are in for a six win season despite a better overall talent base than last year.
Schoen missed on E. Neal and JMS (maybe...TBD) and that crushes the future cause if they were both Top 10 or 12 we'd be strong on offense this year without a doubt.
Do guys in the locker room care? Any resentment? Or as long as he helps them win, no one cares?
If guys care more about that than about improving the roster to win a championship, then I dont want those guys either.
Quote:
He is a proven veteran at a position where we don't have tons of veterans or depth. I'll take it.
No, I think we were hoping that the front office and the coaches knew what they were doing going into preseason with Flott, McCloud or Hawkins at CB2. But apparently not.
Kind of like last year with RG and swing tackle.
Great point. These coaches are fucking morons for letting the their planned CB2 get hurt and miss all preseason. Hard to believe any team would employ such yokels.
That would have been the Gettleman approach.
You have to look at the world (or at least the Giants) though some powerful shit colored glasses like the BBI doom squad.
Anyway, I was really hoping we would roll with the young corners and live with the growing pains. I never mind OTJT.
I think the posters who are critical of this move based on AJax's performance last raise good points. I have never been a big fan of rewarding bad behavior. But sometimes second chances do work...
I do hope he's on a short leash.
depends on the contract.
vet min wage 1 year prove it deal is NOT a reward. It's a 'we think you got something left in the tank, but you ain't earned shit' deal.
A Golladay deal? That would be cause to tune out for a couple of years until Schoen 'retires'. I'm not a Schoen fan, but I find it hard to believe anyone (in the professional ranks, they're dime a dozen in the fan ranks) can be Gettleman bad.
They'll probably figure that one out when they see what he does in practice. If I had to guess, I'd say he starts with limited snaps.
The Giants have to be one of the laughing stocks of the NFL. They made no attempt to re-sign Jackson and there wasn’t exactly a crowd trying to sign him. Then, a week before the season, when they realize their appraisal of the secondary was deficient, he’s the savior. Check.
You should change your name to HaterJones45
You pray Banks is superb especially in the redzone.
You pray Nubin, Belton, Phillips and Pinnock all develop quickly together and make for a formidable group.
We can't afford to lose our first two games because our secondary gets exploited by weaker teams who can feast on a new scheme and young guys.
If we start 0 - 2 it is OVER for this season. There isn't enough talent to do better than 3-3 the next six tougher games and hope to come out better than .500 the rest of the way. The pundits may be right and perhaps we are in for a six win season despite a better overall talent base than last year.
Schoen missed on E. Neal and JMS (maybe...TBD) and that crushes the future cause if they were both Top 10 or 12 we'd be strong on offense this year without a doubt.
Jackson is 28 homie. You have no idea if he's past his prime or not.
I subscribe to the theory that this was preplanned and orchestrated in advance.
The Giants and Adoree must have been in conversations and had a deal in place.
Adoree stayed in shape on his own and the Giants preferred to bring him in after the final protected roster was established.
The extra week before the first game allows Adoree the time to get up to speed.
The Giants could maneuver the roster by putting a player on IR and replacing that player with Adoree.
I think that Adoree was the Giants' preferred free-agent corner. Despite Jackson's limitations, the Giants know what they have with Adoree.
They will use him as a cover corner. He will be used to shadow an opponent's receiver. In zone coverage, you need two cover corners. You do not rotate your corners.
The Giants will scheme, how best to take advantage of
Jackson's strengths and conceal his weaknesses
Quote:
We are in for a long season cause Adoree Jackson is past his prime and the guys behind them aren't starters.
You pray Banks is superb especially in the redzone.
You pray Nubin, Belton, Phillips and Pinnock all develop quickly together and make for a formidable group.
We can't afford to lose our first two games because our secondary gets exploited by weaker teams who can feast on a new scheme and young guys.
If we start 0 - 2 it is OVER for this season. There isn't enough talent to do better than 3-3 the next six tougher games and hope to come out better than .500 the rest of the way. The pundits may be right and perhaps we are in for a six win season despite a better overall talent base than last year.
Schoen missed on E. Neal and JMS (maybe...TBD) and that crushes the future cause if they were both Top 10 or 12 we'd be strong on offense this year without a doubt.
Jackson is 28 homie. You have no idea if he's past his prime or not.
He'll be 29 on Sept. 18.
Now, please don't take this as I'm saying he's too old, just stating a fact that he won't be 28 by game 3.
3.5m mil base
500k in Easy to reach incentives
1 mil in Difficult to reach incentives
Hopefully Banks steps up. You don't want your 2nd corner becoming a liability where QB's are targeting him. Demoralizing to the D and overall effort of the team.
Hopefully Banks steps up. You don't want your 2nd corner becoming a liability where QB's are targeting him. Demoralizing to the D and overall effort of the team.
This was the narrative all year. It was a 'if you're not married by 30, look me up' relationship.
He overestimated his position, and now he comes down to reality.
by accepting a. deal, he locks it in for the year, assuming he's on the roster week 1.
In return, the Giants get a decent player, who is motivated to perform.
Or, he's shot, and the Giants blow a minimum contract on a loser.
cant argue with the price. hopefully all's well that ends well, had he been willing to basically sign for same deal they got Mills on back in March they probably would have done it.
3.5m mil base
500k in Easy to reach incentives
1 mil in Difficult to reach incentives
If both aides are amenable, they can use the definition of NLTBE to push a big chunk of Jackson’s cap hit into 2025 while paying him like a starting corner if that’s what he is. A few possible targets:
- 15-17 games played
- 90% of defensive snaps
- 2 interceptions (might be legitimately NLTBE, considering his hands)
They could also do some team incentives, punt return targets, etc. Of course, it takes two to tango.
ah missed that it was a guessing game. ill guess 2m guaranteed/cap hit plus 1.5m ntlbe incentives.
signing him to the league minimum would have essentially be 1m guaranteed at this stage, so my guess is they gave a chunk above that plus incentives that only hit if he plays well enough to keep his job.
Quote:
In comment 16591893 pierce58 said:
Quote:
He is a proven veteran at a position where we don't have tons of veterans or depth. I'll take it.
No, I think we were hoping that the front office and the coaches knew what they were doing going into preseason with Flott, McCloud or Hawkins at CB2. But apparently not.
Kind of like last year with RG and swing tackle.
Great point. These coaches are fucking morons for letting the their planned CB2 get hurt and miss all preseason. Hard to believe any team would employ such yokels.
Try not to be a complete dick for once.
I think this says more about what they think about any CB not named Banks than what they expect from Jackson.
Jackson wasn't awful last season; his missed tackles were infuriating, but he just led the top of a long list with that issue. His coverage outside was fine; not shut down, and he's not going to be paid like one.
Possible scenarios (at least one of Flott/Hawkins/McLoud performing well enough to warrant CB2 over the season is Plan A).
Plan A works/Adoree plays well. The problem is?
Plan A works/Adoree bombs. They bought insurance/vet depth and it didn't work out. No harm, no foul.
Plan A fails/Adoree plays well. Fabulous signing saves the day.
Plan A fails/Adoree bombs. Let the arrows fly for inability to evaluate talent - but not for trying to upgrade/buy insurance before the season starts.
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Titians 2022 couldnt stop the pass. Titans 2023 couldn’t stop the run and the pass in the same game, it was one or the other but not both. I think there is room for skepticism.
The Giants have to be one of the laughing stocks of the NFL. They made no attempt to re-sign Jackson and there wasn’t exactly a crowd trying to sign him. Then, a week before the season, when they realize their appraisal of the secondary was deficient, he’s the savior. Check.
The “laughing stock of the NFL” because they signed a veteran CB which is the biggest weakness on the team and outside of offensive line- the biggest demand in the NFL. A veteran CB who hasn’t lost athleticism and is now a fraction of the cost.
You’re constantly a laughing stock here and my guess is most likely in your life you miserable old fuck.
No one will miss you as usual when things eventually turn well and you disappear- and I have a feeling that’s also the same in your life outside here as well.
But no doubt, you are correct and the other GM's all consider Schoen an astute judge of talent, a prodigy at self scouting and a cunning adversary.
There's a reason he's available 9 days before the season, and likely drew an incentives-based contract.
Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
The only way this is a good signing is if Jackson plays well.
There's a reason he's available 9 days before the season, and likely drew an incentives-based contract.
Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
The only way this is a good signing is if Jackson plays well.
I mostly agree and that's my point - at this point we can't known; all we know is it can't hurt.
A second scenario is if the secondary plays well without him because other guys play better and we don't really see him. Doubtful, but that would make it an OK at worst signing.
Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
In other words the issue is the reality of player development: sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I do not follow how it doesn't make them better at cornerback, if he plays as an average starter. It quantifiably does, since they did not have average quality before.
You pray Banks is superb especially in the redzone.
You pray Nubin, Belton, Phillips and Pinnock all develop quickly together and make for a formidable group.
We can't afford to lose our first two games because our secondary gets exploited by weaker teams who can feast on a new scheme and young guys.
If we start 0 - 2 it is OVER for this season. There isn't enough talent to do better than 3-3 the next six tougher games and hope to come out better than .500 the rest of the way. The pundits may be right and perhaps we are in for a six win season despite a better overall talent base than last year.
Schoen missed on E. Neal and JMS (maybe...TBD) and that crushes the future cause if they were both Top 10 or 12 we'd be strong on offense this year without a doubt.
Adoree is past his prime at 28 years old, soon to be 29. How old is Stephon Gilmore? He will be 34 this month. Is he past his prime 5 years older than Jackson? And he had a decent year last year.
Adoree had a good first half…he kind of quit at the end when I think he knew he was on his last leg in NY and probably didn’t want to get hurt. I think he will be motivated with a contract heavily weighted for incentives.
By the way SGMen…when did you become so pessimistic?
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Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
In other words the issue is the reality of player development: sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I do not follow how it doesn't make them better at cornerback, if he plays as an average starter. It quantifiably does, since they did not have average quality before.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Jackson is a better option than what they have... It just sucks that Jackson is a better option than what they have.
CB2 was a big need. In March they met with both Tre'Davious White and Darious Williams to fill that role. The fact that they had those meetings, and what Schoen said during Hard Knocks about wanting to draft a CB in the 2nd round tells me that they weren't satisfied with what they had on the roster for CB2. But for whatever reason they waited until 8 days before the season to address it. That's what's frustrating.
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Titians 2022 couldnt stop the pass. Titans 2023 couldn’t stop the run and the pass in the same game, it was one or the other but not both. I think there is room for skepticism.
The Giants have to be one of the laughing stocks of the NFL. They made no attempt to re-sign Jackson and there wasn’t exactly a crowd trying to sign him. Then, a week before the season, when they realize their appraisal of the secondary was deficient, he’s the savior. Check.
The “laughing stock of the NFL” because they signed a veteran CB which is the biggest weakness on the team and outside of offensive line- the biggest demand in the NFL. A veteran CB who hasn’t lost athleticism and is now a fraction of the cost.
You’re constantly a laughing stock here and my guess is most likely in your life you miserable old fuck.
No one will miss you as usual when things eventually turn well and you disappear- and I have a feeling that’s also the same in your life outside here as well.
I too have not anointed Bowen as the savior on our defense….I’m not sure he will be as effective as Wink was….and I know Wink had some misses, but I believe in his two years here, he had more hits. I will be following our defensive progress very closely. With 4 stars of the 11, you would think we should be pretty decent, wouldn’t you think?
But now is the time to fix that failure
Not reacting to the failure cannot be the correct move.
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In comment 16592412 HBart said:
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Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
In other words the issue is the reality of player development: sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I do not follow how it doesn't make them better at cornerback, if he plays as an average starter. It quantifiably does, since they did not have average quality before.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Jackson is a better option than what they have... It just sucks that Jackson is a better option than what they have.
CB2 was a big need. In March they met with both Tre'Davious White and Darious Williams to fill that role. The fact that they had those meetings, and what Schoen said during Hard Knocks about wanting to draft a CB in the 2nd round tells me that they weren't satisfied with what they had on the roster for CB2. But for whatever reason they waited until 8 days before the season to address it. That's what's frustrating.
There were 5-6 big needs that needed to be attended to in march. While I can see why it might be frustrating, I also see why this played out the way it did, and I'm having trouble understanding why other people dont see it.
You needed two guards, a RT, a WR. Are we paying Saquon? Need to have money for that or his replacement. Got a QB in ACL rehab. We've invested into a couple of Corners. Can we fix these other holes, and give the prospects we have a chance to show how they've developed and maybe solve that problem internally, or do we want to spend the money on CB before the draft, leaving one of the other gaps open?
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In comment 16592484 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 16592412 HBart said:
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Signing Jackson isn't the issue. The issue is the Giants didn't want to do this. They ran 100 days of practice and evaluation hoping they were right with their talent evaluation, and they weren't.
Success for a football team isn't measured in risk, it's measured in wins. Even if Jackson turns out to be a low risk/low reward investment, doesn't make them better at corner back.
In other words the issue is the reality of player development: sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.
I do not follow how it doesn't make them better at cornerback, if he plays as an average starter. It quantifiably does, since they did not have average quality before.
I don't think anyone is arguing that Jackson is a better option than what they have... It just sucks that Jackson is a better option than what they have.
CB2 was a big need. In March they met with both Tre'Davious White and Darious Williams to fill that role. The fact that they had those meetings, and what Schoen said during Hard Knocks about wanting to draft a CB in the 2nd round tells me that they weren't satisfied with what they had on the roster for CB2. But for whatever reason they waited until 8 days before the season to address it. That's what's frustrating.
There were 5-6 big needs that needed to be attended to in march. While I can see why it might be frustrating, I also see why this played out the way it did, and I'm having trouble understanding why other people dont see it.
You needed two guards, a RT, a WR. Are we paying Saquon? Need to have money for that or his replacement. Got a QB in ACL rehab. We've invested into a couple of Corners. Can we fix these other holes, and give the prospects we have a chance to show how they've developed and maybe solve that problem internally, or do we want to spend the money on CB before the draft, leaving one of the other gaps open?
I see this Ten Ton….i hope this helps….
Should have happened weeks, if not months ago
would've cost way more then. Smart to wait this out.
But now is the time to fix that failure
Not reacting to the failure cannot be the correct move.
Not only that but Schoen is buying at the right time. Whether he assessed the market correctly or it just worked out, Adoree has always been out there and he wasn't alone -- there's been optionality at DB from day one.
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I agree that the failure for a Giants draft pick/signing to not win the he CB #2 job is not good
But now is the time to fix that failure
Not reacting to the failure cannot be the correct move.
Not only that but Schoen is buying at the right time. Whether he assessed the market correctly or it just worked out, Adoree has always been out there and he wasn't alone -- there's been optionality at DB from day one.
Exactly.
This was definitely the plan if one of the guys on the roster did not show enough.
It would have been wrong (and more expensive) to bring in the the vet early
It would have been wrong to not do it now