for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Not as competitive a group as I'd  
ATL_Giants : 9/3/2024 12:45 pm : link
imagined.
Eli's  
Dr. D : 9/3/2024 12:46 pm : link
regular-season production wouldn't look so "mild" if Reese, Ross and co. didn't do such a horrible job with the roster, including the OL, for the last 7 or so years of Eli's career.

It wasn't just the OL, the defense sucked most of those years too (w/ the exception of '16 after Reese spent a bunch on FAs). I remember several times when Eli would get the Giants a lead, only for the D to blow it.
Interesting that Eli  
Sky King : 9/3/2024 12:53 pm : link
Is exactly 10th all time in passing yards, TD's and completions. Not too shabby.
Eli should be a lead pipe lock  
truebluelarry : 9/3/2024 1:01 pm : link
For 1st ballot.
But you never know, he has a lot of detractors and the HOF’s anti-New York bias is ver real.
RE: Interesting that Eli  
Blue21 : 9/3/2024 1:04 pm : link
In comment 16593941 Sky King said:
Quote:
Is exactly 10th all time in passing yards, TD's and completions. Not too shabby.
I originally thought he wouldn't/shouldn't get into the HOF. But when looked at his stats years ago on top of the two SB's I figured he's a lock. I always did say if the team had been better his last five years he wouldn't have been .500 career QB. They wasted so many good years for him. Those teams hurt him big time.
Didn't Strahan not get 1st ballot?  
Mike from SI : 9/3/2024 1:08 pm : link
That still befuddles me.
RE: Didn't Strahan not get 1st ballot?  
truebluelarry : 9/3/2024 1:12 pm : link
In comment 16593948 Mike from SI said:
Quote:
That still befuddles me.


2nd ballot.
The worst example is Harry Carson who had to wait 13 years, which was an absolute farce.
I wrote to Paul Zimmerman of Sports Illustrated about it in the early 2000s. He was on the HOF committee and was a Carson supporter. He told me there were a number of silent assassins on the board.
Hope so  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/3/2024 1:19 pm : link
but I think he waits a year. Sal Pal made the same argument and has said he will vote 1st ballot. I recall Peter King being less enthusiastic in an article he wrote.

Eli's two SB wins as QB were also against two of the tougher paths in the playoff/SB journey imv.

Careful Doc....some don't like when you post the truth.
RE: Hope so  
truebluelarry : 9/3/2024 1:53 pm : link
In comment 16593962 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
but I think he waits a year. Sal Pal made the same argument and has said he will vote 1st ballot. I recall Peter King being less enthusiastic in an article he wrote.

Eli's two SB wins as QB were also against two of the tougher paths in the playoff/SB journey imv.

Careful Doc....some don't like when you post the truth.


Speaking the truth is a double-edged sword.
Zimmerman was kicked off the SB MVP mvp voting after ranting that the MVP didn’t have to come from the winning team. He was the sole voter for Thurman Thomas. The rest voted for Ottis Anderson (7 votes) Jeff Hostetler (1) & David Meggett (1).
The only stat the Eli naysayers have is regular season record.  
DeVito32 : 9/3/2024 1:54 pm : link
When he retired, he was in the top 10 of every major statistical category. Yards, Completions and Touchdowns.

His post season record is very good. Essentially considering all the wins on the road against top seeded teams and HOF QBs he outplayed. His post season stats are elite. When he retired he was one of 4 QBs in NFL history to win 2 Super Bowl MVPs. Both of them arguably against the best QB, coach and team dynasty in NFL history.

The only thing they have against Eli is regular season record which is ridiculous. He should be a first ballot lock. If he’s not it’s total BS.
TBlarry  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/3/2024 2:03 pm : link
The truth I was referring to was Reese/Ross allowing the OL (as well as the D) to deteriorate in Dr.'s post.

The .500 record is such a misleading stat  
HardTruth : 9/3/2024 8:50 pm : link
Eli is 17 games under .500 in ages 36-38 and an additional 5 games under for his rookie season

That’s 22 games under .500 in those 4 seasons that came at beginning and the end

That’s not who he was the prime of his career and who he was his whole career. He was obviously then 22 games ABOVE .500 with 2 Super Bowls,6 playoffs, a #1 seed in NFC, a few division titles, in his prime from age 24-35 over 12 years.

It’s absolutely ridiculous to hold the end of his career over his entire career and judge him as if that’s what he was his whole career.
 
christian : 9/3/2024 9:11 pm : link
There's zero chance Manning Inc. let's the Hall keep Eli Manning out. First ballot? If that's reserved for the greatest ever, Manning should probably have to sit out a year.

These are your all time first swing QBs.

Peyton Manning
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman
Warren Moon
Steve Young
Dan Marino
John Elway
Jim Kelly
Joe Montana
Dan Fouts
Terry Bradshaw
Roger Staubach
George Blanda
Johnny Unitas
Bart Starr
Bobby Layne
RE: …  
DeVito32 : 9/3/2024 9:50 pm : link
In comment 16594347 christian said:
Quote:
There's zero chance Manning Inc. let's the Hall keep Eli Manning out. First ballot? If that's reserved for the greatest ever, Manning should probably have to sit out a year.

These are your all time first swing QBs.

Peyton Manning
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman
Warren Moon
Steve Young
Dan Marino
John Elway
Jim Kelly
Joe Montana
Dan Fouts
Terry Bradshaw
Roger Staubach
George Blanda
Johnny Unitas
Bart Starr
Bobby Layne


Warren Moon had a 105-103 regular season record and 3-7 post season.
Dan Fouts had 86-84-1 regular season 3-4 post season.

Both 1st ballot HOF.
 
christian : 9/3/2024 10:00 pm : link
Moon had a few outstanding years in the CFL and was 28 before he started his NFL career, so his numbers are a bit deflated.

Fouts is probably the guy who doesn't belong. He had some great individual seasons, but I agree he isn't in that group of top all time guys.
Moon played the majority of  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/4/2024 11:35 am : link
his NFL career in a dome and was in very QB friendly offenses. I think that inflated his stats. I don't believe he ever played in a championship game. Fouts played in two.

I don't see an issue with either being 1st ballot but with the post season success Eli had especially considering the competition if those two are 1st ballot then Eli certainly should be.

RE: …  
Section331 : 9/4/2024 12:04 pm : link
In comment 16594347 christian said:
Quote:
There's zero chance Manning Inc. let's the Hall keep Eli Manning out. First ballot? If that's reserved for the greatest ever, Manning should probably have to sit out a year.

These are your all time first swing QBs.

Peyton Manning
Brett Favre
Troy Aikman
Warren Moon
Steve Young
Dan Marino
John Elway
Jim Kelly
Joe Montana
Dan Fouts
Terry Bradshaw
Roger Staubach
George Blanda
Johnny Unitas
Bart Starr
Bobby Layne


George Blanda is in the Hall as much for his kicking as QB'ing, because he was a pretty shitty QB. He had a couple of good years in Houston in the AFL, but nothing of note before or after. Even as a kicker, he was nothing special.

Maybe some old timers can explain this to me, but I see on Pro Football Ref that Blanda was UPI MVP in 1970 and 2nd to John Brodie in AP MVP vote, yet started zero games at QB, threw 55 passes all year, and had an unremarkable year at K (15th in ATT, 18th in FGM, 18th in %, 15th in points).

How the hell was he in the MVP conversation? Was it because he was 43? I can't think of a single other reason.
What will make Eli a candidate who will probably have to wait a while  
Greg from LI : 9/4/2024 12:21 pm : link
Is that, despite the two titles, he was arguably never one of the three best QBs in the league in any given year other than maybe 2011. He was durable and played a ton of games so his career numbers are top ten (though that will change when Stafford soon passes him), but he didn't have many regular seasons that writers will generally consider truly great.

He had an unusual career. He had two incredible playoff runs but also a couple of real playoff stinkers (2005 and 2008). His overall record (yes, for reasons largely beyond his control) was middling. He was good but not great in the regular season for most of his career. What set him apart was the ability to truly raise his game in winning two titles. That will get him in at some point but I do think it will take a few years.
Back to the Corner