Center isn't an easy spot for a rookie. Let's evaluate the Bricillo magic on him after a few games first. Then see if the injuries should be a concern. But dang, it's early...
Sometimes I wonder if people want instant results or they’re labeled a bust.
It's not 1979 and the Giants OL has been a disaster for 10+ years. We don't have to wait anymore, especially since Schoen hasn't hit on shit wrt the OL via draft.
So no. How can he be a bust? Some peoples definition of a bust are strange. The guy started every game he played in in his rookie season, and now is starting again. Yes he needs to improve like most other rookies. A bust is someone who gets cut, or close to it
It's a lot for a rookie center to start. Then factor in the players at guard, all of them who aren't on the roster anymore in 2024. Not one starting guard or primary backup at guard.
In 2024, for JMS, the key is I think health.
Experienced and stronger guard play is something I think we can count on.
RE: I’m glad you weren’t around when Simms was drafted
Sometimes I wonder if people want instant results or they’re labeled a bust.
Odell changed everything for rookies IMO. Most college players in NFL History needed time to develop into good NFL players. That was the norm. Odell came in as a rookie and looked like a 10 year vet and for some reason ever since then guys are almost instantly labeled busts or a miss.
Let's just give these guys some time. Look at our very own Eli Manning or Amani Toomer or Tiki Barber or Corey Webster. If they played nowadays they'd all be labeled busts heading into their 3rd season.
Worse afterwards. Still, he's a second year player, he can be the exact same he was last year, he can also take a big jump. We have 3 full seasons of control to find out.
When there isn't any real competition, you can be mediocre and be a starter (especially on the Giants). O'Cyrus Torrence was much better value and the same level of need at the pick we took JMS.
That being said, preseason of year 2 isn't the time to push the panic button. But let's see some flashes this year.
When there isn't any real competition, you can be mediocre and be a starter (especially on the Giants). O'Cyrus Torrence was much better value and the same level of need at the pick we took JMS.
That being said, preseason of year 2 isn't the time to push the panic button. But let's see some flashes this year.
Schlottmann was real competition. He has started in this league. Van Roten was also legit competition.
Schlottmann was real competition. He has started in this league. Van Roten was also legit competition.
Schlottman has been a career backup, mostly at guard. Losing to him would have been a major admission of a miss.
Van Roten is a guard with some versatility. He's much more valuable as a guard next Eluemenor rather than playing at center. You could argue they like JMS-VR more than VR-Stinnie, but either way we're talking about a pretty low bar for JMS to be considered a "hit."
And he's not out of the woods yet. If he plays poorly, they have clearly constructed this group so that they can move bodies around inside and not be dysfunctional. It's a big year for him.
when a young player takes awhile to develop. Yes he was injured often early, but he had already shown he had the ability. He won the first five starts of his rookie year on a bad team, was 6–4 as a starter, threw for 1,743 yards 13 touchdown passes, was named to the NFL All-Rookie Team and was runner-up for Rookie of the Year.
Before getting hurt last year, he looked promising. There were some rookie growing pains, but he was decent. I think he did not come back 100% because he was not the same when he returned. This year he is back in the starting lineup and I have 100% faith in Bricillo. The OL, all levels of depth, already look to have better fundamentals, cohesiveness, and the blocking schemes seem better. Obviously, we need to see it for real, but I am optimistic on this OL.
and was supposed to be pro ready. Sy pointed out in some of the reviews that athletically he struggled to get out on some of his run block responsibilities.
Hopefully a big turnaround but with the injuries, limited athletic ability and questionable physical attributes I am not very optimistic.
When there isn't any real competition, you can be mediocre and be a starter (especially on the Giants). O'Cyrus Torrence was much better value and the same level of need at the pick we took JMS.
That being said, preseason of year 2 isn't the time to push the panic button. But let's see some flashes this year.
And Evan Neal was a starter before this year.
RE: I’m glad you weren’t around when Simms was drafted
Sometimes I wonder if people want instant results or they’re labeled a bust.
Forget Simms, it was even worse with Eli! After the Baltimore game his rookie year people were throwing fits. And like with JMS, Eli was considered as the QB in his draft class that was most able to step in as a rookie and start. Compared to Roethlisberger, Eli was five years in the SEC to Ben's three years at Miami of Ohio. And yet it was Roethlisberger who hit the ground running and Eli who struggled mightily as a rookie with many on BBI labeling him a bust.
He won the first five starts of his rookie year on a bad team, was 6–4 as a starter, threw for 1,743 yards 13 touchdown passes, was named to the NFL All-Rookie Team and was runner-up for Rookie of the Year.
Which is why Eli is a much better (and more recent) example.
The giants can move JMS to RT and allow Neal to move to RG? In addition to solving two positions of need , it would placate the BBI experts whom have decreed JMS as a bust after his first injury plagued season in the league.
...and labeling someone a miss. And that's where we're at with JMS. There were reasons for concern following Andrew Thomas's rookie year, too (given his SEC pedigree and 4th overall pick); but there was no reason to be asking "right now...at this point...is AKT a miss?"
RE: RE: I’m glad you weren’t around when Simms was drafted
Sometimes I wonder if people want instant results or they’re labeled a bust.
It's not 1979 and the Giants OL has been a disaster for 10+ years. We don't have to wait anymore, especially since Schoen hasn't hit on shit wrt the OL via draft.
In 1979, the whole fucking Giants team had been a disaster for longer than that!
Who remembers that one..
Wasn't it with Scott Brunnel or something ridiculous like that...
Scott Brunner, yes. But it wasn't ridiculous. Simms was constantly hurt and when he wasn't, he was getting balls batted back in his face or getting picked off.
Took Simms a good four, maybe 5 years to get his shit together.
At the start of last year, JMS was doing fine. Then he got hurt on that stupid tush push play. When he came back he was lost.
He came advertised as an experienced, pro-ready, high-floor prospect. We expected Creed Humphrey, and got Rich Umphrey. (Anyone remember him? Hello? Is this thing on?)
It's not a surprise that a rookie center would struggle, even one drafted in the second round, especially given the circumstances of the 2023 Giants. But it was surprising to see this particular center look so bad as a rookie. So yes, at this point he's a miss. Past performance may not be predictive of future results, obviously. At least we can hope not.
The relentless negativity on this site is exhausting.
Moving on.
I dont think he will make it through the season as he seams to have some serious issues with his shoulders.
They should start training Kubas at center.
It's not 1979 and the Giants OL has been a disaster for 10+ years. We don't have to wait anymore, especially since Schoen hasn't hit on shit wrt the OL via draft.
This guy was as sure fire, day 1 poster, can not miss.
Now….?
Stop it.
These guys need time to develop
Thats why I'm glad to see Schoen pivot to loading up on veterans - both to start and as depth - this offseason.
In 2024, for JMS, the key is I think health.
Experienced and stronger guard play is something I think we can count on.
Odell changed everything for rookies IMO. Most college players in NFL History needed time to develop into good NFL players. That was the norm. Odell came in as a rookie and looked like a 10 year vet and for some reason ever since then guys are almost instantly labeled busts or a miss.
Let's just give these guys some time. Look at our very own Eli Manning or Amani Toomer or Tiki Barber or Corey Webster. If they played nowadays they'd all be labeled busts heading into their 3rd season.
a small older college player
Covid has allowed many prospects coming out to be older.
And he's 6'4", 320 lbs. He isn't small. He does need to play better but he also need reps. He got hurt early last year and it impacted him.
Ha,+1
That being said, preseason of year 2 isn't the time to push the panic button. But let's see some flashes this year.
I can't imagine too many rookie centers look great right away.
That being said, preseason of year 2 isn't the time to push the panic button. But let's see some flashes this year.
Schlottmann was real competition. He has started in this league. Van Roten was also legit competition.
Yes it is.
Schlottman has been a career backup, mostly at guard. Losing to him would have been a major admission of a miss.
Van Roten is a guard with some versatility. He's much more valuable as a guard next Eluemenor rather than playing at center. You could argue they like JMS-VR more than VR-Stinnie, but either way we're talking about a pretty low bar for JMS to be considered a "hit."
And he's not out of the woods yet. If he plays poorly, they have clearly constructed this group so that they can move bodies around inside and not be dysfunctional. It's a big year for him.
Seems to be the only binary question that can be answered given the brief timeline.
Throw in the fact he was surrounded by absolute garbage at both Guard positions last yea
Everyone talks about oh i want a real rebuild and drsft a QB and we have threads about players being misses after 1 year
I don't like when draftniks say he is a plug and play center or whatever.
Hopefully a big turnaround but with the injuries, limited athletic ability and questionable physical attributes I am not very optimistic.
That being said, preseason of year 2 isn't the time to push the panic button. But let's see some flashes this year.
And Evan Neal was a starter before this year.
One year in weight room
Health?
Knowledge of offense
Experience now in pro game
New OL coach
Better guards on both sides
Let's see
Quote:
Sometimes I wonder if people want instant results or they’re labeled a bust.
It's not 1979 and the Giants OL has been a disaster for 10+ years. We don't have to wait anymore, especially since Schoen hasn't hit on shit wrt the OL via draft.
In 1979, the whole fucking Giants team had been a disaster for longer than that!
Wasn't it with Scott Brunnel or something ridiculous like that...
Wasn't it with Scott Brunnel or something ridiculous like that...
Scott Brunner, yes. But it wasn't ridiculous. Simms was constantly hurt and when he wasn't, he was getting balls batted back in his face or getting picked off.
Took Simms a good four, maybe 5 years to get his shit together.
At the start of last year, JMS was doing fine. Then he got hurt on that stupid tush push play. When he came back he was lost.
Let us see how he does this year, at least.
It's not a surprise that a rookie center would struggle, even one drafted in the second round, especially given the circumstances of the 2023 Giants. But it was surprising to see this particular center look so bad as a rookie. So yes, at this point he's a miss. Past performance may not be predictive of future results, obviously. At least we can hope not.