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| Quote: |
| The execs, whose backgrounds range from personnel evaluation to contracts/salary cap and analytics/strategy, ranked every team in each conference on condition of anonymity for competitive reasons. They also offered explanations, some of which are included below. Teams are ordered by the median of their rankings, with ties between teams broken by average vote. All five voters’ ballots, along with the median and average for each team, are in the table below. |
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| Votes: 16-11-14-15-16 | Avg.: 14.4 | Median: 15 Any path for the Giants to surprise probably includes a breakout season from rookie receiver Malik Nabers. “If Nabers or (Marvin) Harrison were Rookie of the Year, that means they had a bigger year than the quarterbacks — a historic year that would uplift their teams,” one exec said. The Giants appear optimistic, having unretired Hall of Famer Ray Flaherty’s No. 1 jersey so the rookie can wear that number. “Their best chance with Daniel Jones is to do what they did a couple years ago: Go heavy play-action, simple boots with simple reads, and scheme those guys to be open,” an exec who considers Jones to be a low Tier 3 quarterback said. “There is definitely a ceiling there. Unless they know something we all don’t, they are kind of existing.” |
7. New York Giants
Votes: 9-11-8-7-5-6 | Avg: 7.67 | Median: 7.5
So we go from middle of the pack in the conference to next to last. Awesome
The good news is that the same 15th spot last year (Rams) went to the playoffs and are now in the 4th spot in the next year of these rankings. The 14th (Packers) also went to the playoffs and are now in the 2nd spot.
So I guess I'm saying... there's a chance! (maybe?)
What did he say (I can guess)?
‘Well….we’re waiting!’-Judge Smails.
What did he say (I can guess)?
I missed a word in my post. He shared a *similar* observation.
The WSJ might ask economists "Will the FOMC cut the discount rate in September, and if so by how much?" They might even ask for a percentage likelihood of a rate cut. But they won't require that likelihood to be expressed to four decimal places. That's the level of hair-splitting when you start distinguishing - before a single down is played - between the 14th and 15th best teams in a conference.
I agree that the broad strokes of the survey are interesting: League insiders think the Giants stink. What seems useless to me is whether those insiders consider the Giants slightly stinkier, or slightly less stinky, than the Panthers and Commanders. That aspect, to me, is clickbait to spur pointless argument over 14 vs. 15 vs. 16. If we all agree that those teams stink on paper, what difference does it make how you order them? (And once the games start, who even cares how they look on paper?)
The WSJ might ask economists "Will the FOMC cut the discount rate in September, and if so by how much?" They might even ask for a percentage likelihood of a rate cut. But they won't require that likelihood to be expressed to four decimal places. That's the level of hair-splitting when you start distinguishing - before a single down is played - between the 14th and 15th best teams in a conference.
I agree that the broad strokes of the survey are interesting: League insiders think the Giants stink. What seems useless to me is whether those insiders consider the Giants slightly stinkier, or slightly less stinky, than the Panthers and Commanders. That aspect, to me, is clickbait to spur pointless argument over 14 vs. 15 vs. 16. If we all agree that those teams stink on paper, what difference does it make how you order them? (And once the games start, who even cares how they look on paper?)
I don't see the distinction you are making at all. The asked these insiders to ranks all the teams and then provided the mean for each team. These are opinions (as are clearly discussed in the article). What more precision would you like to see to move this out of "clickbait" territory?
If this were 3 Athletic writers giving their opinion I could see your point. I just don't see how this type of article from a very reputable publication could be rightly called "clickbait." To each their own.
I value posters who make opinions that are supported by solid facts and analysis. I didn't see this from you.
Is there anything deceiving, sensationalizing, or misleading about how the article is teased or framed?
I value posters who make opinions that are supported by solid facts and analysis. I didn't see this from you.
No worries. You don't respect me, and I don't respect you. Have a great day.
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That's a sobering observation re: Jones. A connected BBIer shared an observation from a Giants coach with me recently.
What did he say (I can guess)?
They’d need to be “creative” to score points
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May as well not watch games now. Maybe I can start going to church or read a good book on Sundays. According to "executives" we are going to be picking 2nd or 4th. Scintillating work Athletic. You have now joined every other publication in being a click bait shit heap.
What's clickbait about projecting a frequently crappy team in recent years to once again be a crappy team.
Calling things clickbait seems to just be the adult equivalent of putting our fingers in our ears. It doesn't actually mean anything most of the time, other than a declaration that we don't like what it says so we assume the source is just trying to be inflammatory for clicks.
It might seem like kicking a dead horse, but it isn't. It's just that the Giants have been bad for a long time now.
The news will be positive when the Giants give the media something about which to be positive.
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In comment 16595641 Joey in VA said:
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May as well not watch games now. Maybe I can start going to church or read a good book on Sundays. According to "executives" we are going to be picking 2nd or 4th. Scintillating work Athletic. You have now joined every other publication in being a click bait shit heap.
What's clickbait about projecting a frequently crappy team in recent years to once again be a crappy team.
Calling things clickbait seems to just be the adult equivalent of putting our fingers in our ears. It doesn't actually mean anything most of the time, other than a declaration that we don't like what it says so we assume the source is just trying to be inflammatory for clicks.
I'll tell you why. It's meant to inflame a fanbase that is already riled up. Look how many responses its had, it's doing the job intended, making people get all mad at the Giants and Mara and everyone involved. It's not data driven, it's not analysis, it's "Executives" who aren't named spewing hatred towards a team they think is bad. It merely fans the flames and this board and fanbase are all on fire until this ship gets turned around. I'm not expecting more than 7 wins, no one should with this bunch, so ad nauseum piling on from the Athletic, yes it's click bait. Duggan USED to be objective and thorough and just reported his observations, now he's joined the rest of those muppets in stoking the fires. Good for him, it works, it's how the world works now. Piss off angry people with rhetoric and watch the mob tear itself apart. I don't disagree with this assessment either, but make a point with an article, don't just kick a dead horse.
Or maybe the Giants have been bad for awhile. They can’t just write positive stuff with the results on the field not being there.
You don’t think the Browns got similar coverage for decade? Did you have a problem with that?
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In comment 16595641 Joey in VA said:
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May as well not watch games now. Maybe I can start going to church or read a good book on Sundays. According to "executives" we are going to be picking 2nd or 4th. Scintillating work Athletic. You have now joined every other publication in being a click bait shit heap.
What's clickbait about projecting a frequently crappy team in recent years to once again be a crappy team.
Calling things clickbait seems to just be the adult equivalent of putting our fingers in our ears. It doesn't actually mean anything most of the time, other than a declaration that we don't like what it says so we assume the source is just trying to be inflammatory for clicks.
I'll tell you why. It's meant to inflame a fanbase that is already riled up. Look how many responses its had, it's doing the job intended, making people get all mad at the Giants and Mara and everyone involved. It's not data driven, it's not analysis, it's "Executives" who aren't named spewing hatred towards a team they think is bad. It merely fans the flames and this board and fanbase are all on fire until this ship gets turned around. I'm not expecting more than 7 wins, no one should with this bunch, so ad nauseum piling on from the Athletic, yes it's click bait. Duggan USED to be objective and thorough and just reported his observations, now he's joined the rest of those muppets in stoking the fires. Good for him, it works, it's how the world works now. Piss off angry people with rhetoric and watch the mob tear itself apart. I don't disagree with this assessment either, but make a point with an article, don't just kick a dead horse.
Was it clickbait and beating a dead horse when these kind of columns had the jets at the bottom for a decade? Or how about when they ranked the Browns at the bottom? Is it fanning the flames of an angry fan base when they rank the Panthers and Patriots last in their conferences?
So many get so upset by the media saying a team that has sucked for 10 years will probably suck again. We have had people get mad at this shit every year for 10 years, watch the media be right (because the Giants won the 6 games a year they have averaged the last 10 years), and then get mad again next year.
Do you just hate rankings? Because ranking teams and players has been a part of sports forever. Or do you just not like where the Giants rank? Should these executives and the media say the Giants will be good just to make the fan base feel good? That doesn't sound very objective, now does it?
Also, are the sports books also "Clickbait"? Because Draft kings has the Giants at the 4th worst over/under for the season? Is that beating a dead horse and riding up a fan base? Or is it just the betting community as a whole thinking the Giants aren't very good and betting accordingly?
The Giants offseason is just a few days from starting!
But don't give me any bullshit predictions based on mathematical models or half-assed statistical constructs.
Or is there some way they are bad enough to be #1 but Young is still viewed as the future franchise QB (outside of a Young injury).
I think they almost assuredly will finish with the top pick. And they'd have to go QB.
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In comment 16595641 Joey in VA said:
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May as well not watch games now. Maybe I can start going to church or read a good book on Sundays. According to "executives" we are going to be picking 2nd or 4th. Scintillating work Athletic. You have now joined every other publication in being a click bait shit heap.
What's clickbait about projecting a frequently crappy team in recent years to once again be a crappy team.
Calling things clickbait seems to just be the adult equivalent of putting our fingers in our ears. It doesn't actually mean anything most of the time, other than a declaration that we don't like what it says so we assume the source is just trying to be inflammatory for clicks.
I'll tell you why. It's meant to inflame a fanbase that is already riled up. Look how many responses its had, it's doing the job intended, making people get all mad at the Giants and Mara and everyone involved. It's not data driven, it's not analysis, it's "Executives" who aren't named spewing hatred towards a team they think is bad. It merely fans the flames and this board and fanbase are all on fire until this ship gets turned around. I'm not expecting more than 7 wins, no one should with this bunch, so ad nauseum piling on from the Athletic, yes it's click bait. Duggan USED to be objective and thorough and just reported his observations, now he's joined the rest of those muppets in stoking the fires. Good for him, it works, it's how the world works now. Piss off angry people with rhetoric and watch the mob tear itself apart. I don't disagree with this assessment either, but make a point with an article, don't just kick a dead horse.
A yearly piece, that talks about all 32 teams, is designed to rile up angry Giants fans?
Maybe-& I'm spit balling here-they just don't think this team is that good? I know that's a hard concept for some to grasp.
Not saying were top 5 but let's prove the muppets wrong on the field boys :)
BS polls and all this shit are for the media advertisers, click bait as many have pointed out.
The reaction of some? This was a biased hit piece written just for the purpose of upsetting Giants fans for some unknown reason.
Unbelieveable.
Then next year we could've taken Burden or Egbuka and keep picks. But hey maybe this year's approach is so bad we'll pick top 5! Or maybe just give Dak $60mm year
I really hope I eat these words but I really feel they deserve all the criticism they're getting
We shall see.
"Here's Why the Giants Will Surprise and Make a Deep Playoff Run This Year"
...because it would be designed to elicit a shocked-yet-interested response from the target audience.
There's nothing clickbait-y or controversial about NFL executives predicting which of their competitors are going to have good seasons and them collectively pointing at one of the worst teams in the past 12 years and expecting more of the same.
I'm not sure what it takes to convince some folks that we actually stink?
We shall see.
The Giants don’t have a bad roster; they have a below average QB. I don’t expect. DJ to play to the level of 2022 when he was at least average or a little above average. He is who he is. Still a few too many holes on this team, I’ll be happy if we can scratch out 9 wins and keep the season interesting.
We shall see.
I don’t think they were very good that year either. And that same playbook won’t work without Saquon.
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winds up with the #1 pick, do they go QB again?
Or is there some way they are bad enough to be #1 but Young is still viewed as the future franchise QB (outside of a Young injury).
I think they almost assuredly will finish with the top pick. And they'd have to go QB.
And that would put Bryce Young on the block and the Giants would be an obvious suitor.
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team is way better than the 2022 team that won a playoff game.
We shall see.
I don’t think they were very good that year either. And that same playbook won’t work without Saquon.
It stopped working the 2nd half of the 22 regular season
The reaction of some? This was a biased hit piece written just for the purpose of upsetting Giants fans for some unknown reason.
Unbelieveable.
Agree with your overall point but Thomas is our best offensive player and it’s not close. I hope this fact will start to be debated with Nabers on the squad. But Saquon, nah.
Yeah, agree. Jones on the field is not going to be some epic catastrophe. He is an NFL player with a ton of game and practice experience. He is perfectly capable of functioning as a conservative, capable backup QB who will have a occasional good game. And he probably believes, with some justification, that if he performs at that level then he will continue to be the starting QB and continue to make massive amounts of money.
People should not be expecting an incompetent disaster. The expectation should be the same low-risk, easy passes, choose to run if the easy read is covered - low ceiling offense.
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And I don’t think they’ll be very good this season but I also can’t help but to think the expectations from a lot of people cratered even more after that disastrous preseason game Jones had. Expectations were never great but there was a bit of curiosity before that game and they’ve been getting much harsher criticism since that game. At least it seems that way to me. And if so, it’s pretty lame
Yeah, agree. Jones on the field is not going to be some epic catastrophe. He is an NFL player with a ton of game and practice experience. He is perfectly capable of functioning as a conservative, capable backup QB who will have a occasional good game. And he probably believes, with some justification, that if he performs at that level then he will continue to be the starting QB and continue to make massive amounts of money.
People should not be expecting an incompetent disaster. The expectation should be the same low-risk, easy passes, choose to run if the easy read is covered - low ceiling offense.
I agree with this. The Giants have improved their roster across the board with the exception of QB. That's admittedly a HUGE exception, but even with a similarly weak QB room last year, they weren't the worst team in the league. I personally won't go there because I don't think the difference between Jones, Lock, and DeVito is as drastic as it should be, but an argument can be made that getting Jones back might be an improvement over DeVito and Taylor last year.
This team is a lot more tslented than the team that went to the playoffs 2 years ago but as of right now nobody is going to believe in this team
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And I don’t think they’ll be very good this season but I also can’t help but to think the expectations from a lot of people cratered even more after that disastrous preseason game Jones had. Expectations were never great but there was a bit of curiosity before that game and they’ve been getting much harsher criticism since that game. At least it seems that way to me. And if so, it’s pretty lame
Yeah, agree. Jones on the field is not going to be some epic catastrophe. He is an NFL player with a ton of game and practice experience. He is perfectly capable of functioning as a conservative, capable backup QB who will have a occasional good game. And he probably believes, with some justification, that if he performs at that level then he will continue to be the starting QB and continue to make massive amounts of money.
People should not be expecting an incompetent disaster. The expectation should be the same low-risk, easy passes, choose to run if the easy read is covered - low ceiling offense.
Highly doubtful with Daboll calling the plays that the offense wont be agressive..
All you have to do is read the practice reporta to know this team is gojng to push the ball down the field
Giants are young but they have talent
for example the receiving room is very talented they are just extremely young and unproven..
The oline should be much better with better coaching and proven players..
Singletary is not a gamewrecker but he is one of the more consistent RBs in the NFL
Theo Johnson looks the part and has all the talent
Dline is elite
Okereke is an elite player..
Even the secondary that everyone hates has a lot of young talent, Banks, Phillips, Nubin, Belton and Pinnockk
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In comment 16595641 Joey in VA said:
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May as well not watch games now. Maybe I can start going to church or read a good book on Sundays. According to "executives" we are going to be picking 2nd or 4th. Scintillating work Athletic. You have now joined every other publication in being a click bait shit heap.
What's clickbait about projecting a frequently crappy team in recent years to once again be a crappy team.
Calling things clickbait seems to just be the adult equivalent of putting our fingers in our ears. It doesn't actually mean anything most of the time, other than a declaration that we don't like what it says so we assume the source is just trying to be inflammatory for clicks.
I'll tell you why. It's meant to inflame a fanbase that is already riled up. Look how many responses its had, it's doing the job intended, making people get all mad at the Giants and Mara and everyone involved. It's not data driven, it's not analysis, it's "Executives" who aren't named spewing hatred towards a team they think is bad. It merely fans the flames and this board and fanbase are all on fire until this ship gets turned around. I'm not expecting more than 7 wins, no one should with this bunch, so ad nauseum piling on from the Athletic, yes it's click bait. Duggan USED to be objective and thorough and just reported his observations, now he's joined the rest of those muppets in stoking the fires. Good for him, it works, it's how the world works now. Piss off angry people with rhetoric and watch the mob tear itself apart. I don't disagree with this assessment either, but make a point with an article, don't just kick a dead horse.
Duggan didn't write this piece.
It's an article about the entire NFC. It happens to have unfavorable remarks about the Giants, but what would you expect from execs at other teams who have watched the Giants be largely mediocre for the past decade and return the same QB who has presided over the most recent half of that decade? Do you think it would be realistic (let alone appropriate or accurate) to shower the Giants with optimistic praise just because you used to like Dan Duggan's work (again, Duggan didn't write this piece)?
I think it might just be easier to walk back your original stance as having been fundamentally incorrect (this piece doesn't pass the sniff test as what most would commonly call "clickbait"), but do as you please.
I called the piece clickbait because it follows a proven formula for generating clicks: take subjective opinions (no matter how reputable the sources) and structure them as a list to create the illusion of precision so there's more room for disagreement. That's how listicles work. For example, we might all agree that Ursula Andress, Jane Seymour, Halle Berry, and Daniela Bianchi are among the ten hottest Bond girls. But which should be #3, #5, #6, and #8? Is "Satisfaction" the greatest Rolling Stones song, or does it rank third, behind "Gimme Shelter" and Sympathy for the Devil"?, or some other combination? We can agree (or disagree) that they are all great songs, but publish a list ranking them and watch an entire Subreddit bloom, debating the order and the reasons. ("Halle looked even better in the bikini than Ursula!" "Gimme Shelter has the greatest supporting vocal ever recorded!")
TL/DR: It's worth knowing that NFL executives think the Giants are among the worst teams in the League. That's not clickbait. A precise ranking is clickbait, because it's the same content packaged according to a well-worn clickbait formula. The useful content is still there. The false-precision packaging is the bait.
they predicted the packers 11th, rams 15th, and bucs 14th. so 3 of their bottom 6 made the playoffs.
1 exec predicted the panthers 4th best so they werent even among the bottom 6.
credit where it's due they got the 4 best right, but below that it was throwing darts.
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team is way better than the 2022 team that won a playoff game.
We shall see.
I don’t think they were very good that year either. And that same playbook won’t work without Saquon.
I agree, I think that offense was ideal for Jones, whose best quality is as a runner. The receivers and OL are (probably) way better this year, but he won't have Saquon giving the offense a dual-threat run option.
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that Mr Mara has cloned himself 15 times. I kid I kid...I have them around 500 this season which falls in line with this.
That’s 15th in the NFC though right? Not the league. So they probably see us winning 3-5 games.
Ahh so much for one halfway hopeful prediction this summer. Oh well...we always have the BBI podcast.
I still have them at around 8-9 wins.
But some here (not you) are concerned we are veering away from "reality."
Prognostications aren't reality. They are merely predictions. Far too many examples where the NFL world and it's talkies and fans failed to see the resurgent team coming. I don't really give a crap until the games happen.
executive comments and opinions are great, but there are better contexts for their predictive value or value in general. the NFL is a volatile league where worst to firsts happen on average i think in 2-3 divisions every year. almost all of them are unexpected. that unknown is what makes the NFL so fun.
2022 - NFL execs rank NFC teams: Rams No. 1, Eagles and Cowboys neck and neck - ( New Window )
they predicted the packers 11th, rams 15th, and bucs 14th. so 3 of their bottom 6 made the playoffs.
1 exec predicted the panthers 4th best so they werent even among the bottom 6.
credit where it's due they got the 4 best right, but below that it was throwing darts.
It always will be, IMO - that seems to be the nature of these preseason prediction articles, whether they come in the form of rankings, tiers, just general team previews, etc., they are always going to be informed to an outsized degree by recency bias.
Part of that, I'm sure, is already baked into the way most readers receive these sorts of pieces - they know that it's often going to be just a combination of last year's standings with a subjective view of this past offseason's draft and FA activity layered on top. And to the extent that we know that going in (and would have no reason to expect any greater precision or accuracy than that anyway), I just don't see how anyone calls these clickbait. Are they a waste of time? I guess, assuming there are actually fans who think they're using their time to read an airtight accurate forecast of the upcoming season's NFC rankings.
But if we accept that these articles are just meant to feed the demand of NFL fans in general as the season arrives, there doesn't seem to be anything inherently wrong with this sort of articles since they're not promising accuracy. They're very clearly, by format and definition, offering a compilation of subjective opinions by those whose expertise resides somewhere between "fan" and "professional analyst" (and the latter isn't necessarily any more accurate than the former for this sort of content).
It's just fluff. That's it. I don't think fluff journalism is clickbait, however. Clickbait is intentionally sensationalist (and often misleading at the headline/CTA level). Fluff is just, well, fluff.
they predicted the packers 11th, rams 15th, and bucs 14th. so 3 of their bottom 6 made the playoffs.
1 exec predicted the panthers 4th best so they werent even among the bottom 6.
credit where it's due they got the 4 best right, but below that it was throwing darts.
Just a reminder that Brett was totally right about the Rams last season!!!