They are going to be mocked pretty heavily all over the national media. Not that it matters much and it won't stop until they win consistently. But, starting 0-1 after the game Barkley had for Philly could really avalanche in a bad way. I've always felt Schoen letting Barkley walk and ultimately go to Philly put added pressure on Schoen. A win Sunday would go a long way in quieting that noise.
And I'll say I'm fine with letting Barkley walk, but Mara was clearly a wreck over it. Schoen already sounded defensive in his press conference a week or so ago. The Giants really can't have a clunker on Sunday.
But being mocked is the last reason there's pressure on them to win.
Everything else is manufactured BS.
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In comment 16597052 ConsistentGiantFan said:
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Barkley's performance behind a superior OL and Schoen's attempt at fortifying the Giant's OL point to a clear understanding of what is required.
Great post.
yea, Schoen has no doubt impressed the League with his analytical wisdom and cunning.
Doesn’t seem like he’s the right guy.
Wait what? You know they made the playoffs in year 1. They had a shit ton of injuries year 2 and still managed to stay together as a team (even with Martindale drama behind the scenes).
You guys who just hate ignore the fact that they made the playoffs. You can't just blow that up (ownership and Fandom would melt down). They thought they had the horses to compete again while replacing some folks gradually. That didn't work out.
Blowing it up would mean Varkley was gone begore 2023 season and Jones franchised or let free. If Barkley had a good game Scjoen would have been roasted, as you attempt to do now.
They made choices, some have worked, some have not and some the jury is still out on..Bit siting like they are a failure is a joke...
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In comment 16597053 mako J said:
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In comment 16597052 ConsistentGiantFan said:
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Barkley's performance behind a superior OL and Schoen's attempt at fortifying the Giant's OL point to a clear understanding of what is required.
Great post.
yea, Schoen has no doubt impressed the League with his analytical wisdom and cunning.
Doesn’t seem like he’s the right guy.
Wait what? You know they made the playoffs in year 1. They had a shit ton of injuries year 2 and still managed to stay together as a team (even with Martindale drama behind the scenes).
You guys who just hate ignore the fact that they made the playoffs. You can't just blow that up (ownership and Fandom would melt down). They thought they had the horses to compete again while replacing some folks gradually. That didn't work out.
Blowing it up would mean Varkley was gone begore 2023 season and Jones franchised or let free. If Barkley had a good game Scjoen would have been roasted, as you attempt to do now.
They made choices, some have worked, some have not and some the jury is still out on..Bit siting like they are a failure is a joke...
I hate posting on my phone. Grr
I could see this playing out as a Schoen vs Mara storyline as the year goes on. I think starting slow just makes that worse.
[quote] We offered him more than Philly did a year earlier. He turned it down. So, screw him and anyone who wants to make this about us not resigning him. [/quote
Plus 1
Has nothing to do with him, show up Sunday G-Men
They tried to do the same thing in 2023 and it failed. The QB, fresh off his big contract, could not repeat his outlier season of staying healthy and the moves made to shore up the Oline failed.
I don’t get the view of “They won in 2022 - that matters, but they lost in 2023, but that doesn’t matter.” You are either going only by the record to gauge success, or you are looking behind it to see what was happening. Either way, you need to be consistent instead of trying to cobble together a narrative of “we earn win and we are victims of circumstances when we lose.”
I don't think it's impossible for Daboll to be retained with Brandon Brown promoted to GM if it's a bad season.
I could see this playing out as a Schoen vs Mara storyline as the year goes on. I think starting slow just makes that worse.
I don’t disagree with that. I also don’t think that narrative changes if the Giants beat the Vikings 17-14. The evaluation of whether Schoen was right or wrong will be based on how the season turns out. If the Giants don’t make the playoffs while Barkley is in the running for league MVP, those clips (criticizing Schoen) will be all over the place.
And I am no Schoen defender, but I am on record that I agree with him not re-signing Barkley, no matter what happens in Philly or NY. Barkley was not part of the solution here, although he may be in Philly. Both those things can be true.
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The Giants are an extremely irrelevant team. Among the most irrelevant in the league. If you polled fans/media on week 1, our game might have the lowest level of interest. People will want to get a look at Nabers and that's it. 2 teams that are going nowhere with few areas of interest.
Failed, veteran QBs, a few good players on both sides of the ball, no dominant units, neither team expected to contend for anything. Neither team is so bad that it might be interesting. Whatever happens, there is not going to be a lot of national coverage of this game.
There was quite a bit of mocking of the Giants on Twitter last night from media figures and players. Look, I don’t care about Barkley and didn’t want to draft him in the first place, and half the media narrative is insincere concern trolling, but it’s a fact that Mara loved the guy and is sensitive to media perception. You take that ingredient and add some other stuff that has popped up last week, such as the Schoen comment to Poles in Hard Knocks, Andrew Thomas’s comments on the OL, and it’s adds up to a bad vibe the Giants can only quash by playing well on the field. Of course, that’s true of every game but this one carries a lot of extra weight imo.
Yeah, I guess I just take a longer view. There might be some chatter on Twitter tomorrow if Singletary gets stoned at the goal line. But nobody is getting fired in September. When the weather gets cold and we're sitting at 3-5 (or whatever) nobody nationally is going to be talking about us.
If we end up with 3 or 4 wins this year, sure. I just don't see that as likely. The talent level is better than that. And over the past 2 years, we've shown an ability to beat teams that are bad, injured, and/or don't care that much. Like the Patriots definitely could have beaten us last year if they wanted to. They just had to run the ball every play. We will win meaningless games.
As long as we win 7 games and Daniel is on the field either 1) we were "in the hunt" for the 7 seed in December or 2) we "finished strong" showing what Daniel can do with the improved talent.
Everyone makes the playoffs every few years in the NFL (except the Jets). The Jets are like 11 years. I don't think anyone else is more than 4. 14 out of 32 make it now. Given injuries, the randomness of close games, etc it's almost impossible not to make the playoffs once in a while. We just got "lucky" at the exact wrong time.
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You're missing my point. Mara listens to the media, I think that's been proven over time with his actions. Just look at how the Eli benching was handled and then reversed. NYG starting slow while Barkley is helping Philly win is going to be very bad for Schoen imo. Mara will take notice of the national perception as well imo. /////
Then why isn’t he listening to the national media and public perception about Daniel Jones? This team is dragged through the mud over and over again for not only drafting the guy, but then re-signing him and continuing to make him the unquestioned starter? Mara does have a tin ear for criticism, except when he doesn’t.
Your original point was about the media treatment of the Giants, as though the national media expects the Giants to be good. They don’t. The point you are making now is different - will John Mara be upset by criticism? Of course he will. He should be. He is a big part of the flawed decision making this team has made for the past decade. …
good post, even if I think Sean has a point that national media will turn up the heat. Real question in my mind is whether Mara can be honest about his role in the way ‘22 off-season went down, based on what we think we know, because the reverberations loom large and impact we fans’ and national media’s perceptions.
I missed this, what Schoen comment are you referring to?
I would pay top dollar for a reasoning why Mara loves this kid so much. I never remember such affection for Dave Brown or Kent Graham.
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You take that ingredient and add some other stuff that has popped up last week, such as the Schoen comment to Poles in Hard Knocks...
I missed this, what Schoen comment are you referring to?
There was a clip of Schoen and Poles at the Georgia-Clemson game and Schoen made a comment to the effect of “must be nice to be here scouting and not have to look for a quarterback.”
This obsession with Barkley, almost predictable after a good game, is really weird.
Time to move on.
The story line will be "Giants paid Jones instead of Barkley" if they lose. If Daniel plays at a high level, or at least NFL competent level, even a loss won't be as bad. But the focus will be on him to show that the Giants FO made the right decision.
I hope he does, because that gives the Giants a chance to win. But that is going to be the story. The comparisons this year will be Barkley's level of play vs DJ's level of play.
Lol. Good luck with that.
Failed, veteran QBs, a few good players on both sides of the ball, no dominant units, neither team expected to contend for anything. Neither team is so bad that it might be interesting. Whatever happens, there is not going to be a lot of national coverage of this game.
Barkley's tenure here will ultimately be remembered as a case study in GM incompetence:
- Drafting him second overall in 2018
- Giving him the franchise tag instead of the two year contract he wanted in 2023
- Not trading him at the 2023 trade deadline
- Not giving him the franchise tag in 2024
- Allowing Barkley to simply walk out the door and getting zero compensation for an elite player. And to our most hated rival of all places.
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In comment 16597052 ConsistentGiantFan said:
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Barkley's performance behind a superior OL and Schoen's attempt at fortifying the Giant's OL point to a clear understanding of what is required.
Great post.
yea, Schoen has no doubt impressed the League with his analytical wisdom and cunning.
Doesn’t seem like he’s the right guy.
Perpetually Miserable and ignorant strikes again
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Barkley's performance behind a superior OL and Schoen's attempt at fortifying the Giant's OL point to a clear understanding of what is required.
Great post.
Agree. The Barkley thing is overblown. He was always going to be much better on a more talented roster, where he could be a luxury. That was a luxury the Giants couldn't afford and a mistake of a draft pick.
I don't know if there's such a thing as a must win game in week 1, but if there ever was its this game. I think the Giants need a statement win against a very beatable team. Jones need to be critical to that win. It will quiet the noise for at least a week.
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In comment 16597053 mako J said:
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In comment 16597052 ConsistentGiantFan said:
Quote:
Barkley's performance behind a superior OL and Schoen's attempt at fortifying the Giant's OL point to a clear understanding of what is required.
Great post.
yea, Schoen has no doubt impressed the League with his analytical wisdom and cunning.
Doesn’t seem like he’s the right guy.
Perpetually Miserable and ignorant strikes again
Why do you think anyone who doubts that the Giants are doing things well is miserable? I doubt the Giants all the time and I am very happy with my life. There is a reason “ignorance is bliss” is a saying. Sometimes people are irrepressibly positive because they simply don’t understand what is happening around them.
Maybe argue opinions being stated instead of hurling ignorant insults at the personality of someone you don’t know?
This team's success and potential rests on #8.
He's got a great opportunity this week to start 1-0 because he's playing against a QB who is inferior - Ghost Darnold. If Jones can't outplay and beat Ghost Darnold at home we're going to be in deep, dark, cold waters already.
And the misery index will be off the charts, especially around here.
This team's success and potential rests on #8.
He's got a great opportunity this week to start 1-0 because he's playing against a QB who is inferior - Ghost Darnold. If Jones can't outplay and beat Ghost Darnold at home we're going to be in deep, dark, cold waters already.
And the misery index will be off the charts, especially around here.
I agree completely, but I don't think Mara agrees re: Barkley blow back.
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should bother no one. It's a red herring.
This team's success and potential rests on #8.
He's got a great opportunity this week to start 1-0 because he's playing against a QB who is inferior - Ghost Darnold. If Jones can't outplay and beat Ghost Darnold at home we're going to be in deep, dark, cold waters already.
And the misery index will be off the charts, especially around here.
I agree completely, but I don't think Mara agrees re: Barkley blow back.
Yeah, if the Giants 5-12 or worse and the Eagles are 12-5 with Barkley racking up 1500 yards, I think Schoen is toast due to this Mara factor, and that concerns me on some level, and not because I think Schoen is great (though I want him to succeed). I’m concerned because both the 2025 and 2026 QB classes are going to finally provide this team the opportunity to move on beyond the late Eli and the fake Eli eras, and I’m not sure I want Belichick or Tim McDonnell leading that decision (and I’m not super hyped on Vrabel and the Titans guys already in the building either, since they never really solved QB).
Although I think Belichick would opt for the FA QB route, someone like Prescott.
I agree completely, but I don't think Mara agrees re: Barkley blow back.
Well, this is where Schoen would have to step up and manage Mr. Palpitations.
Reason over emotion. No winning season, playoff spot, Super Bowl, etc was accomplished after week one.
Saquan Barkley was irrelevant for the Giants. This team is going nowhere with or without him. He will be well past his prime by the time we are a contender. Heck, at the rate we're going he might be a grandfather by the time we're a contender.
This is only an issue because of Mara and his pathetic sentimental attachment to certain players and his insistence on being involved in football operations despite being atrocious at it. If Mara heats up Schoen because of Saquon, we are in even worse shape than the most pessimistic among us would have thought.
1. Drafting Barkley
2. Paying Jones
A semi-intelligent 15 year old wouldn't treat their Madden franchise with such abject stupidity.
I don't know that winning or losing tomorrow is going to change the fact that the Giants are paying $50M+ for zero starting quarterbacks, or that they threw away years pretending Barkley was a great player.
Anyway, on the actual thread subject, in his pod Eric pointed out Parcells truthism that you always lose games you should win on paper, and later win one you should lose. A win would be very good. Highly preferable. But the pressure is on the entire offense firstly, and DL secondly, to perform well. Outside that, it's football. Too much shit can and does happen every game - crazy plays, calls, bounces - that impact the outcome as much as the play on the field with closely matched talent. Which the Vikings are.
Plenty of people (including a couple of the beats) will focus on every single bad play by the O and especially Jones. Nobody on the team gives a shit about that. But if the O struggles, it will be bad in many ways maybe including the locker room. If the O plays well and they lose otherwise, football happens.
If Schoen believes in a tidy cap and not taking big risks with future dollars (which his actions show) -- the Jones choice has broad implications this year.
I've illustrated in great detail how easily the Giants could have franchised Jones and signed Saquon Barkley in 2023. The only minor impacts would have been moving a bit of money on Adoree Jackson to this year and not signing Parris Campbell.
That would have freed them to retain Xavier McKinney, A'shawn Robinson, and acquire a bridge quarterback like Minshew or Darnold.
If the defense of Jones is his contract isn't that bad given how the market developed, then the expectation certainly should be he performs to slot.
Amd make no mistake, that falls on him. Because giving Jones 160M with 2/80M guaranteed in the cap parameters Schoen operates in could have = Minshew, Barkley, McKinney, and Robinson.
I see no scenario where Jones and the O look great and the Giants lose to Sam Darnold at home. Based on his history, it’s far more likely that the opposite happens: Jones looks underwhelming but the Giants grind out a W. Even in that scenario, I would have optimism for the season, since Daboll - being the good coach I believe him to be - will lean on the units that helped win them this game and work around Jones’s limitations the rest of the season.
I wouldn’t underestimate his ability to keep this whole ship afloat, and I hope he’s rewarded with either a stunning turnaround from either the QBs on the roster or a chance to acquire a high upside QB.
Christian , what tipped you over to not liking Schoen?
Unreal.
The worst thing the players can do is read BBI. They would be on a suicide watch