for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Justin Pugh being the voice of reason

Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2024 3:39 pm
Justin Pugh
@JustinPugh
Ok @Giants
fans eventually we’re going to have a talk about all of this.

1. Blaming only the Giants OL for why they shouldn’t re-signed Saquon is the dumbest take. The entire team has struggled the last decade. 3 GMs, 4 Head Coaches, the list goes on. Trust me, I’ve been apart of majority of it.

2. Salary cap isn’t the real reason either. The Eagles figured out a way to pay the entire team and Saquon. We could’ve signed Runyan, traded for Burns and paid Saquon. Don’t let that narrative live any longer.

3. The reason Saquon isn’t a Giant is purely philosophy. Schoen wasn’t willing to pay a RB that much that is OK. He was hired to build the team to win. We made our bed now we lay in it. Can’t be mad at Saquon either, he wanted more and got it.

END RANT
...  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2024 3:40 pm : link
Dan Duggan
@DDuggan21
This nails it, especially on the financial points in 2 and 3. Saquon and Singletary have the same cap hit this year. So the Giants obviously *could* have paid Saquon. But they have a different cap and team-building philosophy than Philly right now. Whether that’s right or wrong is what will be debated endlessly on this app.

I’m firmly in the don’t pay a RB camp. But it’s going to be a LONG year if every game Saquon plays is going to be a referendum on the decision to let him walk. I’m sure Schoen — and especially Mara — wishes he signed with Houston or Chicago or whoever instead of Philly. But what’s done is done. What matters now is how the team Schoen assembled performs
Said the same thing and was told im salary cap oblivious  
djm : 9/7/2024 3:43 pm : link
Said Barkley is super star talent who was at times held back here due to various imperfections.

The truth hurts. Deal with it.
Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/7/2024 3:45 pm : link
Has media expectations and the fanbase at the lowest point I've seen since I have followed the team. I've never seen anything like it. Even the buzz around Nabers is gone, just because Jones is the QB.

One thing I've learned is that it's never as bad as it seems. The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media. I'm not expecting a long playoff run type team, but I do expect them to be around 7 or 8 wins this season.
RE: Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
TDMaker85 : 9/7/2024 3:50 pm : link
In comment 16597568 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Has media expectations and the fanbase at the lowest point I've seen since I have followed the team. I've never seen anything like it. Even the buzz around Nabers is gone, just because Jones is the QB.

One thing I've learned is that it's never as bad as it seems. The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media. I'm not expecting a long playoff run type team, but I do expect them to be around 7 or 8 wins this season.


Totally agree.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/7/2024 3:51 pm : link
Pugh isn’t wrong.
RE: Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
Wiggy : 9/7/2024 3:52 pm : link
In comment 16597568 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media.
yes they will. Until proven otherwise they are the worst team not named the panthers.
RE: RE: Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/7/2024 3:53 pm : link
In comment 16597575 Wiggy said:
Quote:
In comment 16597568 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media.

yes they will. Until proven otherwise they are the worst team not named the panthers.


The Patriots have a shit O-Line with no tackles, a journeyman QB, and no skill position players. What makes them better than the Giants?
Saquon is a good back  
gary_from_chester : 9/7/2024 4:01 pm : link
Not a great one.

He had a good game. He had good games as a Giant.

The Eagles have a better OL, better weapons, and will use him more effectively. He’ll have more good games for them. He’ll also lay some eggs, and I expect he’ll get dinged up as well.

I think we made the right move not to overpay him. I wish him well, hope he performs well, but hope even more the Eagles struggle. If the Eagles have a great year, IMO it won’t be primarily due to Saquon; that team will ride on it’s D, Oline, and stud number one and two WR. Their biggest wildcard is Jalen Hurts and how he performs this year.
Oh yeah, Saquon was a Giant.  
bceagle05 : 9/7/2024 4:01 pm : link
.
RE: RE: Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
BlueHurricane : 9/7/2024 4:02 pm : link
In comment 16597572 TDMaker85 said:
Quote:
In comment 16597568 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


Has media expectations and the fanbase at the lowest point I've seen since I have followed the team. I've never seen anything like it. Even the buzz around Nabers is gone, just because Jones is the QB.

One thing I've learned is that it's never as bad as it seems. The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media. I'm not expecting a long playoff run type team, but I do expect them to be around 7 or 8 wins this season.



Totally agree.


We are winning the division. I can feel it. In my 40 years of watching this team, they blow more often than not when expected to be good and surprise when they are supposed to stink. The. NFC East hasn't had a repeat champ in an eternity. It's week one and I'm choosing to believe it's our time.
RE: Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
Rory : 9/7/2024 4:03 pm : link
In comment 16597568 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Has media expectations and the fanbase at the lowest point I've seen since I have followed the team. I've never seen anything like it. Even the buzz around Nabers is gone, just because Jones is the QB.

One thing I've learned is that it's never as bad as it seems. The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media. I'm not expecting a long playoff run type team, but I do expect them to be around 7 or 8 wins this season.


Which is so incredibly stupid, he literally just got back from being out of football for over a year and it's a freaking preseason game. He was fine in scrimmages. so many dipshits

with no major injuries to key players, 9-7 is my guess.
More informed opinions  
thrunthrublue : 9/7/2024 4:04 pm : link
will be available by appx 4pm tomorrow….and carrying on till mid October if the latest JS iteration is either validated, or imploded especially if Philly is rolling and their 26 is provably better than ours, the one JM wanted to keep.
It was pretty commonly "known" on BBI  
Bill in UT : 9/7/2024 4:05 pm : link
that Schoen didn't want to pay a RB what Saquan wanted, north of $10M
This was not the moment to die on the "positional value" hill  
The Mike : 9/7/2024 4:18 pm : link
The best answer as you pointed out last year, was to trade Barkley at the 2023 trade deadline. The logical trade partner was Baltimore and it would have been very likely for a day two pick. Then Barkley would have likely helped them beat the Chiefs in the AFC Championship game and been resigned by the Ravens this year to the same deal that the Eagles gave him. And Barkley could then march his way to Canton based on his exploits in the AFC taking down Chiefs Kingdom, rather than seeing him every week for the next several years helping our most hated divisional rivals in their quest for multiple Lombardi trophies. Oh, and Schoen would have had another pick to either trade up in the 2024 draft or add another vital day two talent to this very much in need roster.

The second best answer was to apply the franchise tag in 2024 and trade him. At the very least, Schoen would have looked smart for getting something of value for letting an elite talent out the door and trading Barkley to an AFC destination where he would not be impacting the future of this franchise.

The absolute worst possible answer was to 1) let Barkley walk out the door over a tiny differential in price, 2) get zero compensation for him, 3) have him go to our most hated arch rival and 4) be depicted by the entire world on Hard Knocks as being egregiously penny wise pound foolish for making an esoteric argument about positional value as the justification for nickel and diming the very best player on the team and then letting him go for nothing to the Eagles.

And all of this would probably be an insignificant issue except that it is in the context of Schoen paying Daniel Jones the most over inflated contract in Giants history to a middling talent not remotely deserving of such a bloated monstrosity.

The only thing that makes any of this go away is the Giants winning early and often this year to justify these two gargantuan decisions. As you theorized on Inside BBI, maybe this is just part of the strategy to move to a pass first offense and throw Daniel Jones into the deep end of the pool in an effort to once and for all settle the quarterback debate decisively and begin climbing out of quarterback hell before the sun rises on another NFL season?
LaDanian Tomlinson ....  
Manny in CA : 9/7/2024 4:20 pm : link

Holds the record for most TDs by a running back (28) in a season. If Saquon rushes for 1500 and scores say 17 TDs this year, Joe Schoen will wake up with bed bug bite welts all over him.

The person who screwed both Joe and Saquon was Roc Nation's Kim Miale, who told Saquon that he was worth more than the $14M the Giants offered a couple of years ago. THAT was the evil brew that Saquon swallowed and the true reason that Joe held a grudge.

They paid Burns the big cash, so we'll se how that works out.
Justin P U trying hard to stay relevant.  
MOOPS : 9/7/2024 4:20 pm : link
.
I don’t totally agree with number 2  
UberAlias : 9/7/2024 4:23 pm : link
Salary cap is a big reason, but in consideration of number 3. Of course they could have found a way to pay him what he wanted. But every team has a philosophy to account for limitations imposed by the salary cap.

It’s also true that the state if the team plays a big role here. Philly has not always shelled out this kind of money for their RBs. They clearly see Barkley as a piece to get their talented roster over the hump. I also have a feeling they are not 100% sold on Hurts and believe that Barkley can help take a little off from what he has to do.

NYG are not putting the finishing touches on a SB contending roster. Their view is longer term
Reasonable take by Pugh  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/7/2024 4:55 pm : link
.
RE: Saquon is a good back  
Pork Chop : 9/7/2024 4:56 pm : link
In comment 16597582 gary_from_chester said:
Quote:
Not a great one.

He had a good game. He had good games as a Giant.

The Eagles have a better OL, better weapons, and will use him more effectively. He’ll have more good games for them. He’ll also lay some eggs, and I expect he’ll get dinged up as well.

I think we made the right move not to overpay him. I wish him well, hope he performs well, but hope even more the Eagles struggle. If the Eagles have a great year, IMO it won’t be primarily due to Saquon; that team will ride on it’s D, Oline, and stud number one and two WR. Their biggest wildcard is Jalen Hurts and how he performs this year.


I honestly can't think of a better take that this one.
RE: Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/7/2024 4:58 pm : link
In comment 16597568 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
Has media expectations and the fanbase at the lowest point I've seen since I have followed the team. I've never seen anything like it. Even the buzz around Nabers is gone, just because Jones is the QB.

One thing I've learned is that it's never as bad as it seems. The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media. I'm not expecting a long playoff run type team, but I do expect them to be around 7 or 8 wins this season.


I can personally vouch for this. Three weeks and a few hours ago I was very high on the team: Solid practices against the Lions, and the depth guys looked solid in the preseason game.

And then Jones did Jones things from the very first snap of the Houston game. So discouraging.
RE: RE: RE: Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
FStubbs : 9/7/2024 5:00 pm : link
In comment 16597579 JoeyBigBlue said:
Quote:
In comment 16597575 Wiggy said:


Quote:


In comment 16597568 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media.

yes they will. Until proven otherwise they are the worst team not named the panthers.



The Patriots have a shit O-Line with no tackles, a journeyman QB, and no skill position players. What makes them better than the Giants?


Vastly superior QBs. But yes, the Patriots are pretty bad but they do have hope.

Carolina has no hope and the league's worst owner now that Daniel F. Snyder is gone.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
JoeyBigBlue : 9/7/2024 5:29 pm : link
In comment 16597644 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 16597579 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


In comment 16597575 Wiggy said:


Quote:


In comment 16597568 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media.

yes they will. Until proven otherwise they are the worst team not named the panthers.



The Patriots have a shit O-Line with no tackles, a journeyman QB, and no skill position players. What makes them better than the Giants?



Vastly superior QBs. But yes, the Patriots are pretty bad but they do have hope.

Carolina has no hope and the league's worst owner now that Daniel F. Snyder is gone.


Brissett is not better than Jones and Maye isn’t yet. So vastly superior is FALSE.
RE: LaDanian Tomlinson ....  
Milton : 9/7/2024 6:02 pm : link
In comment 16597607 Manny in CA said:
Quote:


The person who screwed both Joe and Saquon was Roc Nation's Kim Miale, who told Saquon that he was worth more than the $14M the Giants offered a couple of years ago.
How do you know that? Maybe she pleaded with him to accept that offer and he refused. He's a grown man. He's responsible for his own decisions and has multiple people to turn to for career and financial advice, not just his agent.
Good  
AcidTest : 9/7/2024 6:19 pm : link
take by Pugh.

I agree that we should have traded Barkley before the 2023 deadline, assuming we could get at least a day two pick for him. I don't think Barkley has the same explosion he once did, but he is still powerful and has a lot of short-area quickness.
My opinion is that it was as much about fit...  
Milton : 9/7/2024 6:34 pm : link
...as it was about philosophy. I get the feeling that Daboll wasn't exactly crazy about Barkley (but I could be just projecting based on my own feelings about Barkley). They use the excuse that it was about the money, but if Daboll thought Barkley was a difference-maker, he'd still be here.
Good point, Milton ....  
Manny in CA : 9/7/2024 6:36 pm : link

But right after that little fiasco, Saquon dropped her, after being with her, like 5 years, and went on to another agent.

The die was cast, Joe now had to pay Dan Jones top dollar for less than stellar play and wasn't in the mood to play games with Saquon. Barkley sensed that and bad feelings took over between both men. Party's over.
I understand the philosophy take, Milton, but .....  
Manny in CA : 9/7/2024 6:43 pm : link

Joe was willing to give him $13M, the first go-round. It just wasn't in the stars. Maybe it's just Philly's turn to go back to the Big dance and try to rip the Lombardi Trophy out of the Chief's hands.
Another take  
Snorkels : 9/7/2024 6:59 pm : link
I live sort of in the area and there was something of a rumor about that the Giants actually did want to resign Saquon; they franchised him last year in the hope that something could be worked out this year, but the Giants came to realize that saquon wasn't going to sign literally at any price with the Giants; that he wanted to play for the Eagles his hometown team. They could have franchised him for another year but it became what's the point. And nobody was offering much more than a bag of used jock straps for Saquon at the end of the year because it wasn't exactly the worst kept secret around the league.
I thought SB  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/7/2024 7:06 pm : link
looked like he was ready to move on last season to a better situation to maximize his talent.
RE: RE: Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
BestFeature : 9/7/2024 7:09 pm : link
In comment 16597575 Wiggy said:
Quote:
In comment 16597568 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media.

yes they will. Until proven otherwise they are the worst team not named the panthers.


The default is the worst team not named the Panthers when there were 5 worse teams last year? Newsflash Barkley didn't do much last year other than get hurt before you go that route.
Pugh's Comments  
Geno 78 : 9/7/2024 7:45 pm : link
Eric

I seldom post or comment, but too many threads turn into a D Jones commentary. I am reading fewer comments and tired of skipping past the D Jones debates !
Can you resolve this Problem ? It drags BBI down!
Barkley's talent requires a superior O line and a superior QB  
GeofromNJ : 9/7/2024 8:29 pm : link
The Giants have neither. To pay him what the Eagles offered would be a waste of money.
RE: Pugh's Comments  
Eric from BBI : Admin : 9/7/2024 8:30 pm : link
In comment 16597781 Geno 78 said:
Quote:
Eric

I seldom post or comment, but too many threads turn into a D Jones commentary. I am reading fewer comments and tired of skipping past the D Jones debates !
Can you resolve this Problem ? It drags BBI down!


Can I "resolve" the problem?

Sure, I can shut down the site. But I don't think you want that.

















I'm still waiting for the Eagles  
loafin : 9/7/2024 8:34 pm : link
to enter cap hell as everyone has been predicting for years.

It seems like their cap management method is the one to follow.
Barkley is great in spurts  
Rudy5757 : 9/7/2024 8:56 pm : link
He started the 2022 season great and finished below average. Last year he was pretty much below average and wanted a raise.

It’s a long season, let’s wait until the dust settles to see where things lie.

I think the Giants are better off without Barkley and Barkley might be better off without the Giants.

Philly didn’t look great, Hurts didn’t look good either. If you didn’t see the game the stats don’t tell the story. I really don’t care how Barkley does this season, it was a bad bet to pay him that contract based on his history.
RE: I'm still waiting for the Eagles  
TommyWiseau : 9/7/2024 9:47 pm : link
In comment 16597801 loafin said:
Quote:
to enter cap hell as everyone has been predicting for years.

It seems like their cap management method is the one to follow.


That and Dallas
It the Eagles don't win the  
mfjmfj : 9/7/2024 10:00 pm : link
SB this year, Howie is in deep trouble for his asinine mismanagement of the cap. If you go all in, you better win.

The big take away from last night's game for Philly ought to be that Jalen Hurts looks very overpaid.

SB is overpaid too, but nowhere near how much Hurts. And unlike DJ who can easily be off the books next year, that Hurts deal is going to hurt for 5+ more years. There is no way out.
RE: It the Eagles don't win the  
FStubbs : 9/7/2024 10:11 pm : link
In comment 16597835 mfjmfj said:
Quote:
SB this year, Howie is in deep trouble for his asinine mismanagement of the cap. If you go all in, you better win.

The big take away from last night's game for Philly ought to be that Jalen Hurts looks very overpaid.

SB is overpaid too, but nowhere near how much Hurts. And unlike DJ who can easily be off the books next year, that Hurts deal is going to hurt for 5+ more years. There is no way out.


If they could move on from Wentz, I'm sure they can move from Hurts.
RE: RE: Daniel Jones' performance in that Texans Preseason Game  
Mdgiantsfan : 9/7/2024 10:31 pm : link
In comment 16597575 Wiggy said:
Quote:
In comment 16597568 JoeyBigBlue said:


Quote:


The Giants will not be as bad as they are being portrayed in the media.

yes they will. Until proven otherwise they are the worst team not named the panthers.


You must be young or new to the NFL as a fan. The worst team in the league when they have yet to kickoff for game 1 is just a baseless statement. For goodness sake, can the team play at least one game this season before we start trying to label the team.
The Giants have let many players go who had more talent than  
Reese's Pieces : 9/7/2024 11:14 pm : link
their replacements. They like it when they can underpay players but don't accept the reciprocal of having to overpay some players.

I didn't cry much when they let him go, so this isn't an "I told you so." But three points overlooked:

Barkley has lost the explosiveness of his rookie year. But he ran better last year between the tackles and we didn't take into consideration enough that the bad offensive line kept Barkley's numbers pedestrian.

The loss of Saquan will make it more difficult for Jones. The play where Jones dropped back and either handed the ball to Barkley left or kept it and went right was hard to defend. Barkley was also a good outlet receiver.

Hard to believe, but heading into last year Barkley had lost only one fumble in his career.

Last year being last year, he lost two.
Didnt Dabol also mention at one point  
nygiants16 : 9/7/2024 11:22 pm : link
that his offense wasnt meant to be built around a RB but he chsnged his philosophy because Saquon was their best weapon?

Maybe i am misremembering but if that is the cas eit gives yoj insight into why Saquon is not here anymore..

Now, those are amazing Saquon stats ....  
Manny in CA : 9/7/2024 11:24 pm : link
And to think of so many around here, who couldn't wait to see him go !
Daboll can be as philosophical as Aristotle ....  
Manny in CA : 9/7/2024 11:38 pm : link

But the truth remains that the O-line gave up 85 sacks and couldn't run block, either.

Saquon was all he had; I give him a ton of credit for salvaging 6 wins, carrying two Albatrosses around his neck - a pathetic O-line and "Kamakazi" Wink Martindale
Based upon Mara's comments on Hard Knocks...  
DefenseWins : 9/8/2024 12:05 am : link
I am also convinced the Giants offered that contract to Barkley one year ago (the one that he turned down) because John Mara was dead set on keeping Barkley for marketing purposes.
RE: I'm still waiting for the Eagles  
JoeSchoens11 : 9/8/2024 7:42 am : link
In comment 16597801 loafin said:
Quote:
to enter cap hell as everyone has been predicting for years.

It seems like their cap management method is the one to follow.
It’s a gamble based on the guys you sign remaining healthy and productive throughout their contract. So far it’s paid off for them (unlike a team like the Saints) but Philly’s just entering the years where their contracts will start hurting them…or at least not giving them a competitive advantage.
Back to the Corner