My normal intro would start with “my non-emotional thoughts from yesterday’s game” however for multiple reasons (early meetings the main culprit) I’m writing this Sunday night, sleeping on it, then will review in the morning before posting.
Still, feel free to add your own thoughts, argue with mine, etc…
Overview
Giants 6, Vikings 28. I’m going to be straight forward in saying this, it was worse than the score indicates.
We started with a 3 and out on our first drive but immediately responded by forcing a turnover leading to great field position. At this point, good teams come away with 7, we came away with 3… It was all downhill from there and after that the game tilted 100% toward the Vikings. Neither the Giants defense nor the offense showed any signs of life. The game felt like it was over at halftime and the team played the second half like that was the case. This was a poor result, there’s no way around that.
Offense:
I’m playing with my format this year, what I’ve been doing is way too close to Sy’s review which is more in depth and better than mine, so why compete? Rather than go position by position, I’m just going to share some overall thoughts, though they may focus on specific players or units.
Topic 1 - QB
Going to start by ripping the band aid off and giving my thoughts on Jones. I know, I know, “not another Jones thread!”, but you can’t ignore it. I’m interested to see if I decided to dial this back after thinking it over for the night, but this was one of the worst games, if not the worst, I’ve seen Jones play in his career. I’ll remind you all that’s saying a lot…
The same problems that had been nagging him his entire career were not only there, but in some cases looked worse. The stat sheet reads five sacks, and I was able to call out 3 that were caused by Jones drifting out of a pocket he could have stayed in. The drifting is exactly what caused the pick 6 against Houston by the way, so it’s not a one-time occurrence. We talk about processing speed on this board a lot, it was slower during this game than I’ve ever seen it. Double and triple clutches before throws to open receivers were common, as was being late or off schedule with multiple other throws. If you go back and even go through some of the completions, you’ll see he was consistently inaccurate the whole game.
Now, the board is going to react to this one of two ways: Way one is by saying “we all knew he stunk” and way two is “its just one game coming back from an injury, calm down”. My response is that when I watched Jones’ first game back from the neck injury (and last) against the Raiders, I saw a lot of the same things I described above. His mechanics seem to have changed, he’s whipping rather than driving the ball a lot of the time, his pocket presence has taken a step back and he isn’t trusting what he sees. I’m very worried that the hit from Van Ginkel (not the pick 6) against Miami last year fully fractured his already fragile pocket awareness, he has none, he looks scared and skittish even when there’s a pocket and time to throw.
This game was concerning. The play level certainly wasn’t that of a starting QB in the NFL and I’m not even sure how happy I’d be with a back up giving me this production. It was that bad of a game. The good news for Jones is that historically he’s played well against the Commanders, so maybe we will see improvement next week. He can’t play like this again.
Topic 2 – Nabers
7 targets, 5 receptions and 66 yards. Not a bad game for the 6th pick of the draft, but it could have been better and I don’t think that fact it wasn't was his fault. I saw Nabers open multiple times when the ball didn’t go his way. Yes, he saw a lot more double coverage but I think there were opportunities that didn’t get converted. Despite all we heard about the rapport him and Jones have built this summer, it looked an awful lot like Jones is more comfortable with Slayton and Wan’dale Robinson.
What I found odd is that while in the red zone, I didn’t see Nabers targeted once. I watched Jones throw an INT to Slayton trying to force one in on 4th down (I don’t mind the thinking) and couldn’t help but asking 2 questions: First being that if Slayton had 3 guys on him, someone else was open and second being “if you’re going to force the ball to someone in the end zone, why not a big TE or Nabers and why not via a jump ball?”.
Nabers will be good this year, I just pray he doesn’t get frustrated with the rest of the offense
Topic 3 – OL
I’m starting with this, of the 5 sacks I only have 2 charged to the OL, I have 3 chocked up to poor pocket presence by Jones. With that being said, this unit still underwhelmed vs the hopes most of us had during the offseason. RB’s ran 14 times for 45 yards with the rest of our ground yardage coming via Jones scrambles and a Wan’Dale Robinson rush. I expected this unit to give us a better showing in the run game than they did. They looked flat, out of sync and a step behind the Minnesota Defense, though this was a theme for the whole team.
One thing I’d be remiss not to mention is that due to injuries this full unit has practiced together a lot, I expect them to improve weekly.
Defense
Topic 1 – Pass Rush
Play 1 was familiar for us. QB drops back, massive body in a jersey reading 97 flies through and sacks QB. At this point in time, I’m sure a lot of us were feeling good about this new look pass rush and had high hopes for the game. Unfortunately, this was going to be the high point of our day rushing the passer. After this play sacks, hurries and pressures were almost not existent. Another big play was not made by a pass rusher until very late in the game when, you guessed it, Dexter Lawrence hit Darnold’s arm causing an errand pass and int.
Brian Burns finished the game with 4 tackles and wasn’t reeking havoc like the trade collateral we gave up for him, or the salary we paid him, would warrant. Kavon Thibodeaux, the 5th pick in the draft 2 years ago, didn’t even register a tackle. We need better from these two or it’s going to be a long season.
Topic 2 – Rookies
We had 3 rookies play a decent amount of time during the game, Tyler Nubin, Dru Phillips and Darisu Muasau.
Would you believe me if I said Nubin and Muasau were the #1 and #2 tacklers during the game? Phillips was tied for 4th… After the game I was rather shocked to see that Phillips really didn’t play as many snaps as I thought he did because he seemed to flash when in the game. His open field tackle on a FB causing a fumble on the first drive was something I was sure would earn him more playing time.
For rookies playing their first game, I was encouraged by what I saw out of all of them. I’m scrambling to find positives in this game so the fact that all our rookie draft picks got in the game and on the stat sheet is worth mentioning…
Topic 3 – Run Defense
I’m very interested to see the missed tackle stats when they come out later today. While there were certainly a few instances where Jones was the recipient of a huge hole to run through, I thought by and large defenders were in positions to make plays, and sometimes just didn’t make them. As a scheme I’m encouraged by what we’ll look like against the run when these things clean up, however I was discouraged by the players execution. There were multiple runs where I thought we had Jones stopped for no gain, yet he found a way to bounce and squirm his way for yards. It’s notable that tackling was sloppy early on last year too and I think its very much tied to the type of training camp we ran.
Coaching
You can go back and forth on this all day with point counterpoints, but the bottom line is the team came out flat and that’s on the coaches. I can get on decisions like Jones running a power sweep on a crucial 3rd and 2 but I’m not going to, I choose to focus on and am more concerned about the way the team played. In his post-game speech Kevin O’Connell said something along the lines of “we were better prepared and in better shape” and I’d tend to agree. This is a bad look for Daboll, and what makes it worse is there’s no denying it. This is now two straight years where we outright laid an egg on week 1 and this year it was against a beatable team. I don’t know what Daboll has changed since year 1 of his regime when we started hot, but he needs to go back to it. I get it, Jones was bad yesterday, but we can’t play non-competitive football.
Another thing worth mentioning was the odd personnel decisions, such as not practicing Flott in the slot all summer then playing him there yesterday. This again is a repeat of something this staff did last year when they put Josh Ezeudu at tackle after never playing him there during camp. It’s a very odd trend to say the least, why are we spending camp having players take reps at positions they won’t play in the regular season?
Conclusion
It was bad, no way around it. What bothers me more about a game like yesterday is that it leaves me with more questions than it answers. For one, I’m starting to feel like the team (players) have lost trust in Jones and don’t feel like they can win with him. After Jones went out against Miami the team, which had given up just north of 30pts a game in its previous 5 games, suddenly rallied and held opponents to 14 and under in 3 straight games. When did they give up 30 again? Against the Raiders when Jones came back and again got injured… All of this can be just random circumstances, but I felt like the team played harder for Taylor and DeVito last year than Jones. Yesterday I saw a team that was flat and didn’t look like they believed they could win the game, could this be related to their faith in their on-field leader?
The only good news from yesterday is that it was week 1. Go back through my reviews from past years, I always mention that things happen in week 1 you never see again the whole season, so maybe this is an aberration. Maybe it isn’t…
Mara openly said that Barkley deserved better than being traded.
As for the Jones signing look no further than the Colts game with all the Jones' chants.
"The Giants are back!"... J. Mara
Pretty much where I am. I'm not into wasting 3 hours every week watching a team that doesn't even look like a professional football team anymore
2) the offense atrocious, play calling horrid
3) 6 years in, Jones still cant buy time to let a receiver get open. he can't wait to pull the ball down and run away.
4) DL II excepted, the D sucked too.
I'm not emotional Bitey, I'm calm as could be. But I am not going to waste any time watching this hot mess. If I have nothing to do or the weather is bad I'll watch. This keeps up and they ill be starting all over again next year with at minimum a new Head Coach, and possibly a new GM.
I have become numb to this team and the NFL in general.
And no I didn't get emotional at all, I am beginning to accept that this team is a long way off and not about to change course anytime soon.
I too may be seeking alternatives to watching this clown show that never seems to become less and less entertaining.
La Liga may be in my immediate future.
Not only did Thibideaux have no tackles, but he was also charged with a personal foul for grabbing the face mask on a play where the defense stopped the Vikings short of a first down on a third down play. The drive now kept alive ended in one of their touchdowns.
Good point about the positive contributions from the rookies. One other good thing to be said was the special teams play. Gano was 2 for 2 including a 50 year made field goal. The first punt was 50+ yards and the second was 39 yards and downed at the 1 yard line. Maybe it could have been a different game if the defense had stopped the Vikings at that point!
Daboll has a reputation as a "quarterback whisperer" based on the development of Josh Allen. I am really beginning to think the opposite is true; Allen is responsible for Daboll's reputation. If they do keep Daboll and have a very highly drafted first round quarterback, I do not have faith in Daboll developing him.
That is the whole thing if he is a QB whisperer make Lock and DeVito play above their perceived abilities. Even in giving him a pass on Jones was damaged goods even if you say the same for Locke DeVito is a pick (UDFA is still a pick)from his GM
Maybe if they bench him, then the spotlight would turn to what are clearly many other problems with this team. The bend not break defense cannot stop the pass. Surprisingly they cannot stop the run either, particularly when Lawrence is out of the game. Did Thibs play? Did Burns play? Flott over Phillips?
JS has not rebuilt the secondary and his drafts have been more miss than hit, particularly with some very high draft picks. Neal itting on the bench because they cannot risk that his play would result in another QB injury.
Daboll, the quarterback whisperer, called a very passive game yesterday. Blame it on Jones if you want, but this team looked a lot like it did with Jones out last year.
People are defending the OL play because it was not historically horrendous again. What a hell of a standard that is! No rushing attack. Pass protection was not great particularly for a veteran group. Let's all agree that Jones is a disaster and put that aside so that we can objectively look at the rest of this team and realize what a total mess it remains.
Overall, the team looked better with Jones out last year than it did with Jones yesterday or last year.
It is a plane crash right now.
They are unwatchable. Young fans want no part of this team. This is how Dallas gained such a foothold in the 70's.
It is happening again.
We have had multiple changes but the one common denominator is Mara. From top down....the very top!!!....we need change or otherwise, this franchise becomes even more of a laughingstock.
I kept thinking of what Phil, LT, Carl, etc. must be thinking today. What a disgrace this franchise has become!
The first thing they need to do is cut Jones. He is absolutely shot, done, Kaput!
Sign Tannehill or trade for someone's back-up. Anything to make the season anything to resemble a real season. Otherwise, no player....will want to stay.
We tend to get destroyed and look embarrassing in those games.
We need to change direction quickly or Daboll's tenure here will start looking like Dan Reeves tenure..
We tend to get destroyed and look embarrassing in those games.
Last home game in Giants Stadium, with a who's who of Giants greats in attendence: a humiliating 41-9 asskicking from the already-eliminated Panthers with Matt damned Moore at QB, knocking the Giants out of playoff contention.
Phil Simms' jersey retirement: a humiliating 35-3 destruction at the hands of the Cowboys on MNF.
Lawrence Taylor's jersey retirement: pounded 27-10 by the Vikings
Eli Manning's jersey retirement: 17-14 loss to a lousy Falcon team.
The only one they won the game for was Strahan's.
Maybe if they bench him, then the spotlight would turn to what are clearly many other problems with this team. The bend not break defense cannot stop the pass. Surprisingly they cannot stop the run either, particularly when Lawrence is out of the game. Did Thibs play? Did Burns play? Flott over Phillips?
JS has not rebuilt the secondary and his drafts have been more miss than hit, particularly with some very high draft picks. Neal itting on the bench because they cannot risk that his play would result in another QB injury.
Daboll, the quarterback whisperer, called a very passive game yesterday. Blame it on Jones if you want, but this team looked a lot like it did with Jones out last year.
Of course it looks passive when Jones plays terrified and doesnt pull the trigger. How exactly do you know when the calls are passive? You believe daboll spent all camp talking about getting the ball downfield, calling for the ball downfield in every 11 on 11 and in the joint practices, only to tell jones *not to*? The guy has been saying it since 2022: Let it rip.
The QB still has to throw it. No one can do that for him.
Quote:
Jones is clearly a wreck and I cannot imagine he is going to ever recover any semblance of confidence playing here with a fanbase that has grown tired of the same mistakes.
Maybe if they bench him, then the spotlight would turn to what are clearly many other problems with this team. The bend not break defense cannot stop the pass. Surprisingly they cannot stop the run either, particularly when Lawrence is out of the game. Did Thibs play? Did Burns play? Flott over Phillips?
JS has not rebuilt the secondary and his drafts have been more miss than hit, particularly with some very high draft picks. Neal itting on the bench because they cannot risk that his play would result in another QB injury.
Daboll, the quarterback whisperer, called a very passive game yesterday. Blame it on Jones if you want, but this team looked a lot like it did with Jones out last year.
Of course it looks passive when Jones plays terrified and doesnt pull the trigger. How exactly do you know when the calls are passive? You believe daboll spent all camp talking about getting the ball downfield, calling for the ball downfield in every 11 on 11 and in the joint practices, only to tell jones *not to*? The guy has been saying it since 2022: Let it rip.
The QB still has to throw it. No one can do that for him.
Some of the language Daboll used in his post game really made me feel like he called some shots and Jones didn't take them. I also got the impression Daboll wanted Jones to look Nabers way more than he did.
That's when you take four shots at the end zone - strike while the iron's hot. That's what I liked when Daboll first came here, the attitude, now he looks totally emasculated. It was down-hill, after that.
That's when you take four shots at the end zone - strike while the iron's hot. That's what I liked when Daboll first came here, the attitude, now he looks totally emasculated. It was down-hill, after that.
Yes! The Daboll who went for 2 to win his first game against the Titans is locked up in a closet somewhere.
That's when you take four shots at the end zone - strike while the iron's hot. That's what I liked when Daboll first came here, the attitude, now he looks totally emasculated. It was down-hill, after that.
I am a huge supporter of taking a shot at the end zone immediately after forcing a turnover deep in the opponents territory.
When the team is bad, the soap opera is more fun.
Either way.
And these bozos we call an organization, are still riding with him. They deserve whatever happens to them after this crash and burn season. We as fans, do not!
Maybe if they bench him, then the spotlight would turn to what are clearly many other problems with this team. The bend not break defense cannot stop the pass. Surprisingly they cannot stop the run either, particularly when Lawrence is out of the game. Did Thibs play? Did Burns play? Flott over Phillips?
JS has not rebuilt the secondary and his drafts have been more miss than hit, particularly with some very high draft picks. Neal itting on the bench because they cannot risk that his play would result in another QB injury.
Daboll, the quarterback whisperer, called a very passive game yesterday. Blame it on Jones if you want, but this team looked a lot like it did with Jones out last year.
People are defending the OL play because it was not historically horrendous again. What a hell of a standard that is! No rushing attack. Pass protection was not great particularly for a veteran group. Let's all agree that Jones is a disaster and put that aside so that we can objectively look at the rest of this team and realize what a total mess it remains.
I think the whole team would play better if it had a QB who could move the ball. The Defense would be energized. I can well imagine the D sitting on the bench watching hapless Jones, knowing they have zero chance of winning this game. It's not like they're playing for a new contract in their walk year.
I'm already looking past that game, to games that will truly test Daboll's adjustments, and the players' talents, if any.
Since the first 7-9 games of 2022, he's mostly been outcoached, and the players outplayed.
Its just as likely that Washington views us as its "get right" game
If they are having trouble running the ball maybe it's time for them to try using a FB. If The FB came over because of Brucilo, then he must have thought FB was an important part of the blocking scheme. If you brought Brucilo over to improve blocking, then listen to, no make that "hear" his recommendations and advice. Taking pieces of a good idea can often = a bad idea. Will have to run effectively to help Jones or his replacement out this year. RE: OLine (Still think they may want to try Neal at guard if healthy).
One thought I had this morning - the edge rushers we have could be more suited to a 3-4 scheme, big difference between LB and DE. Could Bowen's defense (pressure from front four) be better with a more DE type player? Interestingly, one of the players I recall him mentioning during the HBO series re: scheme and fit was Boogie Bashem. That being said - 3 1st rounders on the payroll at the edge position on no pressure is just about as inexcusable as the pick 6.
I agree that rooks looked good and expect defense to gel and get better.
One final note - looked at Vikes 2023 stats during and after the game. They weren't who we thought they were - they were much better (e.g., #5 passing offense, only 18 yards/game less than the topo team - Dolphins)
Would like to do a rewind and see what would have happened without the pass interference call. I thought it one of the worst calls I have ever seen, and totally momentum changing. Maybe something happened before both players facing the ball went up for it. Viking located and went for it quicker but Giant was in better field position and was playing the ball.
Since we never score TDs early anyway, can we open the game with some play action and deep shots downfield? QB read should be simple that S cannot get there in time and although a deep shot, ball should be out quickly. You saw us play, who could guess that this is one of the fastest 4-WR groups in the League, and except for WanDale not smurfs either.
I also thrown Schoen in this too. Where are HIS guys? 2 drafts not including this years rookies and not 1 impact player. Our top players are still from DG in Thomas and Dex. 0 impact from anyone drafted besides rookies and our FAs were meh.
This team just plays uninspired football. This was a game that should have been an easy win. Pressure Darnold and he will fold, yet we get no prey and barely blitz. On O we are down by a lot and still struggling to get the play off before a delay of game. The game was 3 scores in the 3rd quarter and he’s running the ball like we are tied or close. No feel for the game. I know everyone wants to blame Jones but that’s coaching.
Would like to do a rewind and see what would have happened without the pass interference call. I thought it one of the worst calls I have ever seen, and totally momentum changing. Maybe something happened before both players facing the ball went up for it. Viking located and went for it quicker but Giant was in better field position and was playing the ball.
Since we never score TDs early anyway, can we open the game with some play action and deep shots downfield? QB read should be simple that S cannot get there in time and although a deep shot, ball should be out quickly. You saw us play, who could guess that this is one of the fastest 4-WR groups in the League, and except for WanDale not smurfs either.
Bob...2 comments
1. If we had faith in this team, I would blow off yestaerday, this does seem like acontinuation of poor QB play from Jones.
2. I agree 100% on the P.I. call, I don't understand why it did not get more attention at the time, or afterward. Unless we missed someting it looked like an obvious offensive P.I.
When Darnold was hot, not once did the Giants blitz and change things up. He just picked the Giants apart. That is on play calling and not mixing it up in coverage.
Shit, they were down 3 scores in the 4th quarter and still huddling and taking their sweet time. And this has been another mind boggling thing that has existed the entire Daboll era. Never a damn sense of urgency
You are planning on re-watching that shit show.
You are a braver man than I.
I feel bad for guys like Sy and the Big Blue Banter guys that subject themselves to such torture...but at least it's part of their job!
I also thrown Schoen in this too. Where are HIS guys? 2 drafts not including this years rookies and not 1 impact player. Our top players are still from DG in Thomas and Dex. 0 impact from anyone drafted besides rookies and our FAs were meh.
Did you think Banks and Robinson played poorly? Jefferson was contained and wandale relies on Jones to get a ball his way.
If they are having trouble running the ball maybe it's time for them to try using a FB. If The FB came over because of Brucilo, then he must have thought FB was an important part of the blocking scheme. If you brought Brucilo over to improve blocking, then listen to, no make that "hear" his recommendations and advice. Taking pieces of a good idea can often = a bad idea. Will have to run effectively to help Jones or his replacement out this year. RE: OLine (Still think they may want to try Neal at guard if healthy).
One thought I had this morning - the edge rushers we have could be more suited to a 3-4 scheme, big difference between LB and DE. Could Bowen's defense (pressure from front four) be better with a more DE type player? Interestingly, one of the players I recall him mentioning during the HBO series re: scheme and fit was Boogie Bashem. That being said - 3 1st rounders on the payroll at the edge position on no pressure is just about as inexcusable as the pick 6.
I agree that rooks looked good and expect defense to gel and get better.
One final note - looked at Vikes 2023 stats during and after the game. They weren't who we thought they were - they were much better (e.g., #5 passing offense, only 18 yards/game less than the topo team - Dolphins)
He had a pre snap look that he bought into, he was fooled by the Vikings disguising their coverage. He decided he was throwing the ball to Slayton before the ball was snapped. He never took his eyes off Slayton. As he threw the ball Robinson was breaking wide open toward the sideline in the end zone. That's a pass Jones either won't or can't throw. He never even glanced in that direction.
It's going to be a really ugly season if Daboll has decided he's taking everyone down with him. There is no way Lock or DeVito could have been worse than Jones yesterday. As bad? Sure. But worse? Impossible.
We have bad coaches
We have a bad GM.
As they say; "that's it in a nutshell"
And I agree with most, if not all conclusions.
The most damning is it appears the team plays harder, and have more hope when Jones is not in the game.
Yesterday was brutal. I don't know if it's fear from the injuries but he plays rattled and makes incredibly poor decisions.
After seeing two backups move the offense the end of last season with that porous o-line and witnessing what happened yesterday I think he's done. I believe he has skills but I don't think he's mentally all together.
What if he is staying with Jones to prove that he needs a QB? Is he getting pressure by ownership? Just saying. I think Giants got him because he will do whatever Mara says. The coaches that asked to make their own decisions were not hired? Just asking.
It is a plane crash right now.
They are unwatchable. Young fans want no part of this team. This is how Dallas gained such a foothold in the 70's.
It is happening again.
We have had multiple changes but the one common denominator is Mara. From top down....the very top!!!....we need change or otherwise, this franchise becomes even more of a laughingstock.
I kept thinking of what Phil, LT, Carl, etc. must be thinking today. What a disgrace this franchise has become!
The first thing they need to do is cut Jones. He is absolutely shot, done, Kaput!
Sign Tannehill or trade for someone's back-up. Anything to make the season anything to resemble a real season. Otherwise, no player....will want to stay.
I completely agree with you. I think it’s an organization problem. And why not? Mara should step down and have someone else. In ANY other organization would have happened.