and if you guys know my history, I am the last guy to do that.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
Absolutely. They failed to manage up.
Regardless of that, we need to start asking about how the situation can be improved vs. who deserves to be the annual scapegoat.
Schoen and Daboll need to go - they are a poor match for this ownership. The Giants need to bring in someone with the cache to treat John Mara like this:
In hindsight, I think that was cheaper than signing Lock...?
The Steelers are paying their QBs $6M total.
That's why I can't stand the argument that Schoen couldn't do anything at the position.
3 goddamn offseasons and he's done nothing.
Looks like Pittsburgh is on the hook for $3.2M for Fields's 2024 salary. Wilson for $1.2M, btw. Combined, that's less than Lock.
I've never bought the argument, either, that Schoen was too hamstrung by the Jones contract to move him this year. A bigger cap hit with a better QB didn't stop a better HC, Sean Payton, from cutting Russell Wilson.
It's interesting listening to these guys mentioning flaws in Jones's games that many of us have been hammering for five years.
I disagree on the contrtact part. You don't make those decisions in a vaccum and as I said elsewhere I think Mara looks at the cap as more of an actual balance sheet than moveable funny money situation.
and if you guys know my history, I am the last guy to do that.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
They’re all to blame. I hate to sound like a broken record, but the way Schoen has handled the QB position is football malpractice. Even if you genuinely believe he was legitimately interested in Maye…not to draft a QB or even upgrade the position from ‘23…it is MADNESS!
and if you guys know my history, I am the last guy to do that.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
Absolutely. They failed to manage up.
Regardless of that, we need to start asking about how the situation can be improved vs. who deserves to be the annual scapegoat.
Schoen and Daboll need to go - they are a poor match for this ownership. The Giants need to bring in someone with the cache to treat John Mara like this:
But it looked to me like they kind of did that in Hard Knocks with Barkley. Hence, my point that at some point we have to stop turning Mara into the the bogeyman. Also, did anyone notice Woodstock's post from yesterday?
Daboll is definitely on the hot seat
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
By appearing like they wanted to move off Jones, but it seems clear now they knew all along what they were doing.
I feel like I was in the twilight zone this offseason and during the draft.
And I don’t actually believe it was a Mara mandate, I think Mara’s feelings are always known, but John Mara wasn’t the one falling head over heels with the WR, calling him a “dawg”. That was our head coach.
Schoen and Daboll own this. Mara let Barkley walk to Philly. That has to count for a lot in terms of his willingness to let these guys operate in my opinion.
Daboll is definitely on the hot seat
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
I'm not following this. Are you/someone saying Terps said all along that the Jones contract was not on Mara, but on Schoen and Daboll?
why everyone's convinced that Schoen and Daboll were "talked into" resigning Jones when they otherwise would've moved on after the 2022 season. The morning after the Philly playoff loss, they gave a joint press conference where practically the first words out of their mouths was that they wanted to bring Jones back.
Now, I think one could definitely argue (given hindsight) that Mara's attachment to Barkley was evident enough that Schoen felt pressured into negotiating a multi-year deal with Jones, leaving him free to franchise Barkley. If the deal with Jones could not be struck, they would've tagged him, and Barkley likely signs elsewhere. But that move would've also limited our cap flexibility to improve the roster in other areas, so maybe making the deal with Jones was the move Schoen preferred to make irrespective of what Mara would've wanted.
Have to show that the ship is on course and Jones is the only issue. The Lock situation complicates because he got so little work and we're not even sure where he is physically right now. But Daboll needs to show --what you saw, that's on Jones. I can take Drew Lock and do just what KOC did with Darnold, and with a half way competent QB, this team can be competitive.
That's really what has to happen here. Jones is already done. If these guys don't show that, then he can't be the only one who takes the fall. Not that I'm predicting that. Don't be surprised to see half measures with everything pinned on DJ. If these guys haven't proven that they're not every bit as responsible, than anything less then cleaning house is inexcusable (though exactly what I expect).
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
And that makes total sense that they were. Mara is not the sole source of every poor decision made inside the building. He hires crappy people to make the shitty decisions for him.
Former Mets catcher. He could hit, and should have had a long career. Except he couldn't throw the ball back to the pitcher. Way worse than Knoblauch's problems. He would have try 2,3,4 times or more before allowing himself to release the ball. Eventually, they couldn't play him anymore.
I was somewhat more encouraged after reading this part of Sy's review. I assumed no one was getting open. But they were, we just have Mackey Sasser trying to play QB.
I hope Drew Locke is at least as good as Tyrod Taylor.
If not, letting Tyrod go was another brainless move. I know he's not a future #1, but TT was a competent backup, familiar with our system, who gave us a chance to win games.
Daboll is definitely on the hot seat
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
I don’t doubt that Schoen wanted to get the contract done so he could settle with Saquon. After 2022, they knew they couldn’t exactly cut Jones loose, they wanted him back but on their terms. The Saquon negotiations made that impossible.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
I hadn't seen that. Wow.
I hope you're right that Mara will go after Belichick. I don't believe it's the best move at this point in his life, but at least it will make me want to watch this fucking team in 2025.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
Seems convenient that 'someone in the organization' is now telling people that Jones contract was all Joe/Dabs. Not saying it isn't true, but I don't know if I totally buy that. It was probably a decision made collectively by Mara/Schoen/Dabs. Now, people are going to start pointing fingers @ others for that albatross of a deal.
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
I was hammering away at that for the last year. When Mara said he was turning over the keys to the football operations to Schoen, I totally believed him.
Whether the things we saw were actually where decisions were made or a reality tv way to avoid showing competitive details and to make more digestible to the TV audience, we'll never know. But who cares. In silicon valley guys walk around in flip flops have bizarre habits and work odd crazy schedules. Wall Street is different. None of that matters.
I tell the people that work for me, if you do quality work get shit done and are accessible when I need you, I'm not going to hassle you about your working style. What matters is results. That's what I care about, and these guys haven't delivered. If NYG looked good and won, we wouldn't hear a word about HK or Barkley or any of that.
Schoen? You want to say he's an idiot or an office creature who will do anything to placate his boss? Its possible.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
I was hammering away at that for the last year. When Mara said he was turning over the keys to the football operations to Schoen, I totally believed him.
You absolutely called this from the beginning. One of the best early takes I have seen on BBI during my time here. Great job!
Schoen? You want to say he's an idiot or an office creature who will do anything to placate his boss? Its possible.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Here is my pushback on this. Going into 2023, I could see Daboll thinking he would be interested in seeing how Jones could do without the training wheels in 2022. So, if Schoen explained the limitations of the QB market, I could see that being an easy sell for Daboll...at least in the short-run...
Boy, John Mara should HATE Daniel Jones rather than adore him
I could see that Dabs component. Remember how pleased he was with Jones during and after that Colts game? I think he thought he could elevate Jones to another level, but I think he realized that wasn’t possible after the pick six last season vs. the Hawks.
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
I hadn't seen that. Wow.
I hope you're right that Mara will go after Belichick. I don't believe it's the best move at this point in his life, but at least it will make me want to watch this fucking team in 2025.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
I really hope they don't go down the Belichick road. Coughlin was 69 years old when they decided the game had passed him by and forced him out. BB will be 73 next September and hasn't shown he still has his coaching mojo since Brady left New England.
And I agree what you said is plausible. But I think you actually agree with me on Daboll.
If they asked "Brian, your head coaching career is tied to Daniel Jones at 20% of the salary cap - yes or no?" Do you really think he's saying yes?
I don't disagree.
Differently said, I could see Schoen manipulating Daboll into signing off by saying the QB market is not good and they could re-evaluate at the end of 2023.
Prior to the season, many expected Jones to be pulled ala Russell Wilson and Derek Carr once they are out of contention. They cannot risk that injury guarantee. Meanwhile, they looked terrible Week 1 although and it is up in the air if they will defeat the lowly Commanders this weekend. The schedule becomes more difficult thereafter. With all that said, in this case, I hope Daboll and Schoen have some forethought and decide once and for all to play Lock (or Cutlets).
This isn't raising the white flag. This is being intelligent about moving forward.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
There are a lot of people on this board who think posting about this team or Jones sucking means that it is enjoyable and you want more of it.
It is the exact opposite.
Like you, I post about this team as a way of venting frustration that Sundays just aren't fun like they used to be because this team isn't competitive and there is no sign it is getting better. It is hard to see that and say nothing (even though it is just venting because no decision makers are reading this).
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
There are a lot of people on this board who think posting about this team or Jones sucking means that it is enjoyable and you want more of it.
It is the exact opposite.
Like you, I post about this team as a way of venting frustration that Sundays just aren't fun like they used to be because this team isn't competitive and there is no sign it is getting better. It is hard to see that and say nothing (even though it is just venting because no decision makers are reading this).
Hopefully that pollyanna nonsense is a thing of the past - at least as it relates to Daniel Jones...
RE: I will never buy that Daboll is all in on Jones
Schoen? You want to say he's an idiot or an office creature who will do anything to placate his boss? Its possible.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Agree with you. Just because the Giants gave Jones that deal that doesn't equal "all-in" on him from Daboll.
It could mean Daboll was thinking give him a contract that we can deal with in the short term and still get a couple of other new bodies for my roster under the cap, and let's see how it goes. That's not all-in, that is punting the QB decision to another day and hope DJ keeps performing under my coaching.
Don't get me wrong, that contract was an abomination for such a low-talent passer like Jones. But unfortunately Schoen/Daboll saw a higher talented player in their 2022 evaluation process. Scary as that is.
RE: RE: I know you're constructing a plausible scenario
And I agree what you said is plausible. But I think you actually agree with me on Daboll.
If they asked "Brian, your head coaching career is tied to Daniel Jones at 20% of the salary cap - yes or no?" Do you really think he's saying yes?
I don't disagree.
Differently said, I could see Schoen manipulating Daboll into signing off by saying the QB market is not good and they could re-evaluate at the end of 2023.
Seems convenient that 'someone in the organization' is now telling people that Jones contract was all Joe/Dabs. Not saying it isn't true, but I don't know if I totally buy that. It was probably a decision made collectively by Mara/Schoen/Dabs. Now, people are going to start pointing fingers @ others for that albatross of a deal.
Could be that the rats are deserting the sinking ship, but you would think the usual suspects in the sporting press would be leaking it if that were the case.
Could also be true. Seems that Daboll and Schoen have incredibly big heads for not having accomplished a whole lot.
It's kind of sad in a way. The group of posters on here who vilified anyone being realistic about Jones, all gave up on him after a week.
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
RE: RE: I will never buy that Daboll is all in on Jones
Schoen? You want to say he's an idiot or an office creature who will do anything to placate his boss? Its possible.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Here is my pushback on this. Going into 2023, I could see Daboll thinking he would be interested in seeing how Jones could do without the training wheels in 2022. So, if Schoen explained the limitations of the QB market, I could see that being an easy sell for Daboll...at least in the short-run...
I don’t even think it’s that complicated. They made the playoffs, Jones played reasonably well, there was ZERO chance they weren’t resigning him. The only questions were for how much and how long. Those 2 issues are 100% on Schoen, even if he asked Daboll his opinion (which I doubt he would).
I simply will not understand firing the HC because they made a bad contract with their QB. It would be like firing the GM because the HC blew a call in a playoff game.
I think Daboll was all in after 2023, and all out after
the Seattle game last season. At the end of 2023, he probably thought he could elevate his play, and the other options weren't great. At some point, last season I'm sure he said "Mother_ucker!!! We _ucked up."
With the mega-contract making him uncuttable this year, he had to play him, at least initially. Will be very interesting to see how soon he makes a move at QB. There's no way DJ is "his guy" anymore.
As for Schoene, he's the main culprit with 2 big f'ups. (1) Grossly overpaying DJ, and (2) failing to bring in any viable alternative (Fields, even Tyrod). With a starter as weak as DJ, we should have been at the top of the backup QB market. We should have been able to do better than Locke. (I won't blame him for not passing on Nabers and selecting Nix/Penix/JJ, as I think we'll have better QB options in 2025.)
It's kind of sad in a way. The group of posters on here who vilified anyone being realistic about Jones, all gave up on him after a week.
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
If Baker can hit for the cycle against WFT, Jones can probably manage a single.
It's kind of sad in a way. The group of posters on here who vilified anyone being realistic about Jones, all gave up on him after a week.
If the Giants win this week it will be back to positivity. I guarantee it. "We're 1-1. We started 1-1 in '86 and '11, and '0-2 in '07!"
The game to keep an eye on is the next home game - Thursday night against Dallas week 4. If there's a game that's going to get ugly in a lot of different ways...
Was at the game, Section 140 aginst the wall last row
Been a fan since Fran Tarkenton. Wearing my No 8 shirt.
We were able to see the alumni section with Shockey sitting with Parcells.
Loved the half time show.
Left at the end of the third.
Eric, you nailed it.
Worst game I ever saw out of Jones.
Spending my Sundays working on my cars and sailboat from now on...
It's kind of sad in a way. The group of posters on here who vilified anyone being realistic about Jones, all gave up on him after a week.
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
They get paid by the organization and that is how it works if you want to keep your job.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
Absolutely. They failed to manage up.
Regardless of that, we need to start asking about how the situation can be improved vs. who deserves to be the annual scapegoat.
Schoen and Daboll need to go - they are a poor match for this ownership. The Giants need to bring in someone with the cache to treat John Mara like this:
Quote:
In comment 16604718 bw in dc said:
Quote:
for a conditional 6th round pick.
In hindsight, I think that was cheaper than signing Lock...?
The Steelers are paying their QBs $6M total.
That's why I can't stand the argument that Schoen couldn't do anything at the position.
3 goddamn offseasons and he's done nothing.
Looks like Pittsburgh is on the hook for $3.2M for Fields's 2024 salary. Wilson for $1.2M, btw. Combined, that's less than Lock.
I've never bought the argument, either, that Schoen was too hamstrung by the Jones contract to move him this year. A bigger cap hit with a better QB didn't stop a better HC, Sean Payton, from cutting Russell Wilson.
It's interesting listening to these guys mentioning flaws in Jones's games that many of us have been hammering for five years.
I disagree on the contrtact part. You don't make those decisions in a vaccum and as I said elsewhere I think Mara looks at the cap as more of an actual balance sheet than moveable funny money situation.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
They’re all to blame. I hate to sound like a broken record, but the way Schoen has handled the QB position is football malpractice. Even if you genuinely believe he was legitimately interested in Maye…not to draft a QB or even upgrade the position from ‘23…it is MADNESS!
Quote:
and if you guys know my history, I am the last guy to do that.
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
Absolutely. They failed to manage up.
Regardless of that, we need to start asking about how the situation can be improved vs. who deserves to be the annual scapegoat.
Schoen and Daboll need to go - they are a poor match for this ownership. The Giants need to bring in someone with the cache to treat John Mara like this:
But it looked to me like they kind of did that in Hard Knocks with Barkley. Hence, my point that at some point we have to stop turning Mara into the the bogeyman. Also, did anyone notice Woodstock's post from yesterday?
But at some point, Schoen and Daboll have to own this mess.
They’re going to have to own it, I agree, but whether they should is another question.
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
I feel like I was in the twilight zone this offseason and during the draft.
And I don’t actually believe it was a Mara mandate, I think Mara’s feelings are always known, but John Mara wasn’t the one falling head over heels with the WR, calling him a “dawg”. That was our head coach.
Schoen and Daboll own this. Mara let Barkley walk to Philly. That has to count for a lot in terms of his willingness to let these guys operate in my opinion.
Quote:
Daboll is definitely on the hot seat
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
I'm not following this. Are you/someone saying Terps said all along that the Jones contract was not on Mara, but on Schoen and Daboll?
Now, I think one could definitely argue (given hindsight) that Mara's attachment to Barkley was evident enough that Schoen felt pressured into negotiating a multi-year deal with Jones, leaving him free to franchise Barkley. If the deal with Jones could not be struck, they would've tagged him, and Barkley likely signs elsewhere. But that move would've also limited our cap flexibility to improve the roster in other areas, so maybe making the deal with Jones was the move Schoen preferred to make irrespective of what Mara would've wanted.
That's really what has to happen here. Jones is already done. If these guys don't show that, then he can't be the only one who takes the fall. Not that I'm predicting that. Don't be surprised to see half measures with everything pinned on DJ. If these guys haven't proven that they're not every bit as responsible, than anything less then cleaning house is inexcusable (though exactly what I expect).
I was somewhat more encouraged after reading this part of Sy's review. I assumed no one was getting open. But they were, we just have Mackey Sasser trying to play QB.
Quote:
Daboll is definitely on the hot seat
9/8/2024 6:40 pm : link
I mean..that's obvious and Schoens seat is warm and that was before today's game. I want to say one more thing.
GoTerps is 100% percent correct. I was wrong. I assumed Mara pushed to give Jones the contract. Nope. The Daniel Jones contract is Joe Schoens and Dabolls doing. I was shocked when told, especially with how fast they moved to pivot away from him. It sounds nuts but it's true.
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
I don’t doubt that Schoen wanted to get the contract done so he could settle with Saquon. After 2022, they knew they couldn’t exactly cut Jones loose, they wanted him back but on their terms. The Saquon negotiations made that impossible.
I hadn't seen that. Wow.
I hope you're right that Mara will go after Belichick. I don't believe it's the best move at this point in his life, but at least it will make me want to watch this fucking team in 2025.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
I was hammering away at that for the last year. When Mara said he was turning over the keys to the football operations to Schoen, I totally believed him.
Keep the intro at ten to fifteen seconds MAX. Put the long one at the end as an outro.
I tell the people that work for me, if you do quality work get shit done and are accessible when I need you, I'm not going to hassle you about your working style. What matters is results. That's what I care about, and these guys haven't delivered. If NYG looked good and won, we wouldn't hear a word about HK or Barkley or any of that.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Quote:
Wow. This is a stinging indictment of both Schoen and Daboll. If this is true, they both need to be fired before the season ends. As early as the bye week frankly.
I was hammering away at that for the last year. When Mara said he was turning over the keys to the football operations to Schoen, I totally believed him.
You absolutely called this from the beginning. One of the best early takes I have seen on BBI during my time here. Great job!
Quote:
EOM
Hey, I gave you and two others "BBI Post of the Week" honors.
Keep the intro at ten to fifteen seconds MAX. Put the long one at the end as an outro.
Yeah, we know and it will be addressed. Thank you though, appreciate the feedback.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Here is my pushback on this. Going into 2023, I could see Daboll thinking he would be interested in seeing how Jones could do without the training wheels in 2022. So, if Schoen explained the limitations of the QB market, I could see that being an easy sell for Daboll...at least in the short-run...
If they asked "Brian, your head coaching career is tied to Daniel Jones at 20% of the salary cap - yes or no?" Do you really think he's saying yes?
Quote:
woodstock was told by someone inside the organization that Schoen and Daboll were the driving force behind Jones' contract.
I hadn't seen that. Wow.
I hope you're right that Mara will go after Belichick. I don't believe it's the best move at this point in his life, but at least it will make me want to watch this fucking team in 2025.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
I really hope they don't go down the Belichick road. Coughlin was 69 years old when they decided the game had passed him by and forced him out. BB will be 73 next September and hasn't shown he still has his coaching mojo since Brady left New England.
I have said here plenty that I want these 2 guys to succeed here. I really do. But not anymore after this (if true). Holy shit.
If they asked "Brian, your head coaching career is tied to Daniel Jones at 20% of the salary cap - yes or no?" Do you really think he's saying yes?
I don't disagree.
Differently said, I could see Schoen manipulating Daboll into signing off by saying the QB market is not good and they could re-evaluate at the end of 2023.
Prior to the season, many expected Jones to be pulled ala Russell Wilson and Derek Carr once they are out of contention. They cannot risk that injury guarantee. Meanwhile, they looked terrible Week 1 although and it is up in the air if they will defeat the lowly Commanders this weekend. The schedule becomes more difficult thereafter. With all that said, in this case, I hope Daboll and Schoen have some forethought and decide once and for all to play Lock (or Cutlets).
This isn't raising the white flag. This is being intelligent about moving forward.
I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
There are a lot of people on this board who think posting about this team or Jones sucking means that it is enjoyable and you want more of it.
It is the exact opposite.
Like you, I post about this team as a way of venting frustration that Sundays just aren't fun like they used to be because this team isn't competitive and there is no sign it is getting better. It is hard to see that and say nothing (even though it is just venting because no decision makers are reading this).
It's crystal clear they both wanted to keep him after 2023, and were fine keeping him for 2024.
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I have caught so much shit on this board from people saying I'd rather be right than see the Giants win. Well this sucks.
There are a lot of people on this board who think posting about this team or Jones sucking means that it is enjoyable and you want more of it.
It is the exact opposite.
Like you, I post about this team as a way of venting frustration that Sundays just aren't fun like they used to be because this team isn't competitive and there is no sign it is getting better. It is hard to see that and say nothing (even though it is just venting because no decision makers are reading this).
Hopefully that pollyanna nonsense is a thing of the past - at least as it relates to Daniel Jones...
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Agree with you. Just because the Giants gave Jones that deal that doesn't equal "all-in" on him from Daboll.
It could mean Daboll was thinking give him a contract that we can deal with in the short term and still get a couple of other new bodies for my roster under the cap, and let's see how it goes. That's not all-in, that is punting the QB decision to another day and hope DJ keeps performing under my coaching.
Don't get me wrong, that contract was an abomination for such a low-talent passer like Jones. But unfortunately Schoen/Daboll saw a higher talented player in their 2022 evaluation process. Scary as that is.
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And I agree what you said is plausible. But I think you actually agree with me on Daboll.
If they asked "Brian, your head coaching career is tied to Daniel Jones at 20% of the salary cap - yes or no?" Do you really think he's saying yes?
I don't disagree.
Differently said, I could see Schoen manipulating Daboll into signing off by saying the QB market is not good and they could re-evaluate at the end of 2023.
Yes, this sounds closer to reality
Could also be true. Seems that Daboll and Schoen have incredibly big heads for not having accomplished a whole lot.
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
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Schoen? You want to say he's an idiot or an office creature who will do anything to placate his boss? Its possible.
No way on Daboll. We've seen lots of him - he's not an idiot and he's an experienced, credible offensive coach. We've seen the tablet, the dumbed down 22 offense, his attitude this year. There are so many signs. People want to fire him? Not a good HC? Sure. But the guy has seen a lot of offense and a lot of QB play. There is just no way the he would choose to go all in with Jones
Here is my pushback on this. Going into 2023, I could see Daboll thinking he would be interested in seeing how Jones could do without the training wheels in 2022. So, if Schoen explained the limitations of the QB market, I could see that being an easy sell for Daboll...at least in the short-run...
I don’t even think it’s that complicated. They made the playoffs, Jones played reasonably well, there was ZERO chance they weren’t resigning him. The only questions were for how much and how long. Those 2 issues are 100% on Schoen, even if he asked Daboll his opinion (which I doubt he would).
I simply will not understand firing the HC because they made a bad contract with their QB. It would be like firing the GM because the HC blew a call in a playoff game.
With the mega-contract making him uncuttable this year, he had to play him, at least initially. Will be very interesting to see how soon he makes a move at QB. There's no way DJ is "his guy" anymore.
As for Schoene, he's the main culprit with 2 big f'ups. (1) Grossly overpaying DJ, and (2) failing to bring in any viable alternative (Fields, even Tyrod). With a starter as weak as DJ, we should have been at the top of the backup QB market. We should have been able to do better than Locke. (I won't blame him for not passing on Nabers and selecting Nix/Penix/JJ, as I think we'll have better QB options in 2025.)
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
If Baker can hit for the cycle against WFT, Jones can probably manage a single.
If the Giants win this week it will be back to positivity. I guarantee it. "We're 1-1. We started 1-1 in '86 and '11, and '0-2 in '07!"
The game to keep an eye on is the next home game - Thursday night against Dallas week 4. If there's a game that's going to get ugly in a lot of different ways...
We were able to see the alumni section with Shockey sitting with Parcells.
Loved the half time show.
Left at the end of the third.
Eric, you nailed it.
Worst game I ever saw out of Jones.
Spending my Sundays working on my cars and sailboat from now on...
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It's kind of sad in a way. The group of posters on here who vilified anyone being realistic about Jones, all gave up on him after a week.
Team Jones may get lucky again this weekend as Jones runs into the Washington. The team he has owned.
If NYG wins and Jones puts up 200 passing yards, 1 passing TD, maybe 1 running TD and no turnovers, he will get another stay of execution.
And then the mouthpieces for 1925 Giants Way, Banks and Papa, come out and say the rust is starting to come off and Jones is now trending the right way...
It's so easy to write the script with this cast of buffoons.
They get paid by the organization and that is how it works if you want to keep your job.