Are Schoen/Daboll fired after this season?

With only wins vs WA and Carolina, will bring the specter of Belichick hovering over 1925 Giants Drive !

possibly if the team doesn't win at least seven games. Remember that Mara said he wanted to see "significant improvement" this year. We all do of course, but he is writing the checks.

I agree that Daboll is the bigger problem. He isn't using personnel (Flott, Phillips, Simmons, etc.) correctly, and is coming off a terrible season last year. But Schoen's roster management is at best questionable. This is his roster now, and he's had some major whiffs. If BB turns out to be one of those whiffs, Schoen could easily be fired.

ugly fast. Won't see "15 years of lousy football" or ticket being burned, but the building will be either empty or filled with visiting fans. Season tix holders will be looking to recoup some of their $$ and you can't blame them since the Giants and NFL rape the shit out them for tix and PSLs, parking and forced buying of preseason "games" that are worse than High School games. The watch will be on.

If brass heavily influenced them having to run Jones again unless they got one of the top three QBs, the. they might survive. If they didn’t get another free agent to compete because they believed DJ could still win it is likely ove for at least coach. Frankly if DJ is the guy all season I hope they make a lot of changes.

In comment 16604245 sb from NYT Forum said:

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I don't see Daboll and Schoen as a package deal. I see Schoen saving his skin by getting rid of Daboll. Schoen has drafted players and Daboll doesn't know what to do with them. Ezeudu at OT is a joke, he sucks there, he's a OG, everyone can see it. Flip-flopping Flott at slot and outside and made him lost and a waste. Neal should have been practicing at OG. Add this to the personnel shitshow that was last season (OL, PR). But more importantly, I am starting to believe that Daboll does not work well with his staff. I think that's why they hired a light-weight Def. Coordinator in Bowen. Daboll wanted a yes man, someone who wouldn't challenge him. Well, Bowen's defenses look pretty damned pedestrian.

I agree that Daboll is coming across as difficult to work with. The situation with Martindale shed light on that. Wink and Daboll are both type A personalities and they clashed.

Daboll also to me called a terrible game on Sunday. I don't get why the Giants run so much playaction when there aren't even running the ball enough to make the play-action sellable to the defense.

least 4 wins. The issue then is who replaces him?

In comment 16604300 Jack Stroud said:

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least 4 wins. The issue then is who replaces him?

Kafka closes out the season as HC.

This was always going to be a tougher rebuild than people wanted to acknowledge, and the 2022 season looks more and more like a happy outlier.

No, the Giants don't have their franchise QB yet, and they haven't had much luck with their premium draft picks developing in to quality starters yet.

Who knows? I'm still guessing no. This constant turnover every couple of years needs to stop.

If nothing else, Mara always seems to wait 1 year too long to fire coaches, and 2 years too long to fire GMs.

In comment 16604322 David B. said:

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This was always going to be a tougher rebuild than people wanted to acknowledge, and the 2022 season looks more and more like a happy outlier. No, the Giants don't have their franchise QB yet, and they haven't had much luck with their premium draft picks developing in to quality starters yet. Who knows? I'm still guessing no. This constant turnover every couple of years needs to stop. If nothing else, Mara always seems to wait 1 year too long to fire coaches, and 2 years too long to fire GMs.

"No, the Giants don't have their franchise QB yet, and they haven't had much luck with their premium draft picks developing in to quality starters yet. "

whos fault is that?

If none of those things happen, then both should be fired.

He needs 9 wins to survive maybe 8 if he's lucky but the noose will be on his neck going into game one next year .

I do recall numerous posts after week 1 last year definitively stating that the team would not win more than 3 or 4 games. In hindsight, we would have been better off if that had been the case.

I still would like to keep some continuity so keep Schoen and find a HC who has a good resume…no more first year guys. Schoen hired his buddy and it is clear to most of us, Daboll is not anything impressive….unless he can turn it around, but I don’t see how if he sticks with Jones. Jones may do okay v Washington, but after that, back to being scared Jones.

I think both should be gone. I think 5 wins or less and Dabs is gone. His in game decision making the last 2 years has been below average.

Schoen hasn’t produced one plus player from his drafts. Thibs has been average, Banks is TBD but he looks like an average #2. Neal is a bust. JMS has been below average. This years class can’t be evaluated yet but early returns seem good.

If I’m the owner, based on his evaluations the last 2 years I wouldn’t let him pick my QB. His personnel record is spotty at best.

The draft classes have been incredibly underwhelming. There has been dysfunction within the coaching staff. Player development has been non-existent.

Some of this can reasonably turn around this year. If Dru Phillips continues to play as he did, if Kayvon starts to play more impactfully, etc. There is still time for much of the roster to show the improvement that we hoped.

But it comes down to this simple question: Should this regime be trusted with selecting the next QB? Not only that, but should they be trusted with potentially trading away significant future assets to select the next QB.

I don't trust them at all to do so. They have managed the QB position as badly as one could. They are expensive, bad, and zero hope. In 3 years, they haven't drafted anyone, haven't brought in any legitimate competition, and have Jones the largest contract in franchise history. I have seen nothing that makes me believe that Daboll is the QB whisperer we were promised. They have treated the most important position in sports as an afterthought, and told all of the fans to not believe their lying eyes. The entire fanbase has lost trust in them.

In reality, the question is are you comfortable guaranteeing this regime a minimum of the next 2 years. If you aren't willing to do that, fire them now. We CANNOT let a regime on the hot seat select the next QB and have a situation where the GM and HC that took a QB high are fired and then the QB is left at the lap of the next regime

It depends on who is the driving force on Jones still being here with out any potential replacement.

in the same draft bust out (worst case) or become JAGs (next worse case). Both were considered top 5 or at least top 10 picks league wide. SO is it GM and scouts fault, Head Coach and staff? Both? The selection process for assistants? if KT continues to disappear for games at a time, and Neal doesn't get of the bench they have serious questions to answer.

Daboll could be fired depending on how it plays out.

Schoen was given the "edict" from Mara that DJ needed a team around him. Schoen wasn't able to bring in his own QB. I think that ownership will give him that opportunity.

Daboll's situation is different. If the team stays focused and rallys around him and they squeak out 6-7 wins he probably will stay. If the wheels fall off and it becomes a dysfunctional mess he's gotta go.

.

Team decided to let Saquon Barkley walk it left Daboll with a college level roster at the skill positions. Putting all hope on Malik Nabers whom is an outstanding talent but still a rookie was the most idiotic decision they made all offseason. YES! That move should get Schoen fired especially after October 20th when SB comes to town and is running up and down MetLife like a kid in a candy store.

Mara doesn’t have the stomach to fire the both of them.
Dabes is questionable imv. Does he lose the locker room and the team quits on him!!!

If it’s a season long of play against Minny- they are gone. They tied themselves to Daniel Jones and he will sink them.

If Neal, Burns and KT are busts at the end of the year, how could you possibly want to give Schoen another offseason?

It will also be interesting to see how Maye, Nix and Penix look this year.

There was talk we might lose our assistant GM, Brandon Brown this off-season. Maybe we should fire Schoen and see what Brown can do in the interim.

Bring in Belichek.

Do something!!!!!!! DO SOMETHING! This isn't working and we are losing fans left and right!

We are the joke of the NFL!

You have now seen Schoen for 3 years…over 20 draft picks. We have seen him up close and personal on Hard Knocks. Does he seem like someone who can build a perennial contender?? (Super Bowl championships are obviously the goal, but the GM is supposed to a contender year in and year out to maximize opportunity).

We may like him since we have a natural bias to our own staff. He isn’t unlikeable like DG was. I just don’t see it with him. Let’s see how this season plays out, but i am skeptical after seeing the results thus far.

If you don’t think he is that guy, you need to move on. Waiting for the sake of waiting doesn’t make business sense.

In comment 16604376 SleepyOwl said:

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Team decided to let Saquon Barkley walk it left Daboll with a college level roster at the skill positions. Putting all hope on Malik Nabers whom is an outstanding talent but still a rookie was the most idiotic decision they made all offseason. YES! That move should get Schoen fired especially after October 20th when SB comes to town and is running up and down MetLife like a kid in a candy store.

agree

I've been saying this since before the draft and I think they sealed their fate by not taking a QB.

Here's why: out of all the possible outcomes of this season, I think we've probably safely eliminated a stellar year. The remaining possibilities are bad or middling, with the former looking likely. But even if we have a middling year (6-7 wins) why on earth should this regime, who will be firmly in the hot seat next year if they keep their jobs, get to choose the direction of the franchise for the next 3-4 years by selecting the next QB? Would Mara risk "screwing up" his quarterback again with more GM-HC switches during the new QBs rookie contract? It makes too much sense to reset and align the GM-HC-QB trifecta, especially given Schoen's drafting record to date.

That's probably not what Mara planned. I personally think he told himself and perhaps Schoen that Schoen would get a longer leash because of his willingness to entertain his Daniel Jones project. But the public outcry will be massive by year's end and will force his hand.

but I can see Mara firing Daboll and retaining Schoen with the thinking "We brought Daboll in to help Jones succeed and he failed to do so. Now we have to start over." That will mean Schoen will stay and pick the next offensive guru dujour and we will draft a QB and start again.

What should happen is Schoen and Daboll go, and Mara hires someone with complete autonomy over football operations who tells Mara there isn't a single sacred cow on the roster.

Is my barometer. If the answer to both is YES, I’m onboard with canning both.

In comment 16604405 widmerseyebrow said:

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I've been saying this since before the draft and I think they sealed their fate by not taking a QB. Here's why: out of all the possible outcomes of this season, I think we've probably safely eliminated a stellar year. The remaining possibilities are bad or middling, with the former looking likely. But even if we have a middling year (6-7 wins) why on earth should this regime, who will be firmly in the hot seat next year if they keep their jobs, get to choose the direction of the franchise for the next 3-4 years by selecting the next QB? Would Mara risk "screwing up" his quarterback again with more GM-HC switches during the new QBs rookie contract? It makes too much sense to reset and align the GM-HC-QB trifecta, especially given Schoen's drafting record to date. That's probably not what Mara planned. I personally think he told himself and perhaps Schoen that Schoen would get a longer leash because of his willingness to entertain his Daniel Jones project. But the public outcry will be massive by year's end and will force his hand.

So you would have wanted them to take ANY QB, even if their scouting reports indicated they were not Franchise QB level?
We won't know if they missed on JMM, Penix, or Nix for at least another year or two so hard to fire them if they followed their process for that.
Conversely, had they drafted ANY QB, that in my mind would be a fireable offense.

.

In comment 16604469 Tom in NY said:

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So you would have wanted them to take ANY QB, even if their scouting reports indicated they were not Franchise QB level? We won't know if they missed on JMM, Penix, or Nix for at least another year or two so hard to fire them if they followed their process for that. Conversely, had they drafted ANY QB, that in my mind would be a fireable offense.

If you're not selling wins, you better be selling hope. If we're talking strictly about self preservation, it was the beginning of the end for Schoen and Daboll to not take a QB in year 3.

If we're talking about what is best for the Giants, what gives you confidence that not taking a QB was the right choice? Schoen's other draft picks to date? Some assurance that Mara's thumb is not on the scale?

Penix/JJM/Nix went 8, 10 and 12 so the market value was right in line with where we were picking. Only one needs to be a hit for the Giants to be dead wrong. We're going to find out who's front office was correct in a few years

You better hope that we're losing from here on out or you're going to have to brace yourself for similarly flawed prospects. It's hard to draft #1 or #2 overall and have your pick of the quarterback litter.

In comment 16604469 Tom in NY said:

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In comment 16604405 widmerseyebrow said: Quote: I've been saying this since before the draft and I think they sealed their fate by not taking a QB. Here's why: out of all the possible outcomes of this season, I think we've probably safely eliminated a stellar year. The remaining possibilities are bad or middling, with the former looking likely. But even if we have a middling year (6-7 wins) why on earth should this regime, who will be firmly in the hot seat next year if they keep their jobs, get to choose the direction of the franchise for the next 3-4 years by selecting the next QB? Would Mara risk "screwing up" his quarterback again with more GM-HC switches during the new QBs rookie contract? It makes too much sense to reset and align the GM-HC-QB trifecta, especially given Schoen's drafting record to date. That's probably not what Mara planned. I personally think he told himself and perhaps Schoen that Schoen would get a longer leash because of his willingness to entertain his Daniel Jones project. But the public outcry will be massive by year's end and will force his hand. So you would have wanted them to take ANY QB, even if their scouting reports indicated they were not Franchise QB level? We won't know if they missed on JMM, Penix, or Nix for at least another year or two so hard to fire them if they followed their process for that. Conversely, had they drafted ANY QB, that in my mind would be a fireable offense.

Absolutely. Since he's been hired I've wanted to see what Daboll can do with a raw prospect.

The best potter in the world isn't changing a vase into a cup after it's already been put through the kiln.

Typical Giants fashion would be to fire Daboll and keep Schoen. Have a forced marriage with Schoen and the next HC. Having GM/HC on different schedules is how you waste a decade.

I'd either commit to both for three years after this season or fire both now. I don't want to see desperation or any win or else mandates.

Ideally, I'd like to bring in a HC who runs the organization. The GM reports to the HC. This is how Reid, Shanahan and Payton operate. The problem is there aren't many candidates if at all that warrant that. Vrabel who I have my concerns and Belichick who is mid 70s.

If Tomlin ever shook free I'd love to bring him in.

Agree with what you laid out, but I don't think an arrangement like that would ever be ok with Mara. He is a traditionalist's traditionalist. He will want to hire a GM who hires a coach.

I laid out in another thread that I can absolutely see Daboll getting let go and taking all the blame for Jones and all of Schoen's draft picks who have underachieved. I think it would be a disaster for the team, which is why I also believe it is the most likely outcome.

In comment 16604582 Sean said:

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Typical Giants fashion would be to fire Daboll and keep Schoen. Have a forced marriage with Schoen and the next HC. Having GM/HC on different schedules is how you waste a decade. I'd either commit to both for three years after this season or fire both now. I don't want to see desperation or any win or else mandates. Ideally, I'd like to bring in a HC who runs the organization. The GM reports to the HC. This is how Reid, Shanahan and Payton operate. The problem is there aren't many candidates if at all that warrant that. Vrabel who I have my concerns and Belichick who is mid 70s. If Tomlin ever shook free I'd love to bring him in.

Agree 100%. But I'm definitely bracing for the keep Schoen and hire lame HC candidate scenario.

In comment 16604364 dd in Mass said:

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Daboll could be fired depending on how it plays out. Schoen was given the "edict" from Mara that DJ needed a team around him. Schoen wasn't able to bring in his own QB. I think that ownership will give him that opportunity. Daboll's situation is different. If the team stays focused and rallys around him and they squeak out 6-7 wins he probably will stay. If the wheels fall off and it becomes a dysfunctional mess he's gotta go.

And there it is. Asshats now confirming.

This is so blatantly obvious.

hmm

In comment 16604555 widmerseyebrow said:

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You better hope that we're losing from here on out or you're going to have to brace yourself for similarly flawed prospects. It's hard to draft #1 or #2 overall and have your pick of the quarterback litter.

I don’t think it will be for the Giants next draft.

In comment 16604616 GiantTuff1 said:

Quote:

In comment 16604364 dd in Mass said: Quote: Daboll could be fired depending on how it plays out. Schoen was given the "edict" from Mara that DJ needed a team around him. Schoen wasn't able to bring in his own QB. I think that ownership will give him that opportunity. Daboll's situation is different. If the team stays focused and rallys around him and they squeak out 6-7 wins he probably will stay. If the wheels fall off and it becomes a dysfunctional mess he's gotta go. And there it is. Asshats now confirming. This is so blatantly obvious.

We’ll see how his 2024 draft picks turn out. Because he 2022 and 2023/draft picks have been underwhelming

In comment 16604616 GiantTuff1 said:

Quote:

In comment 16604364 dd in Mass said: Quote: Daboll could be fired depending on how it plays out. Schoen was given the "edict" from Mara that DJ needed a team around him. Schoen wasn't able to bring in his own QB. I think that ownership will give him that opportunity. Daboll's situation is different. If the team stays focused and rallys around him and they squeak out 6-7 wins he probably will stay. If the wheels fall off and it becomes a dysfunctional mess he's gotta go. And there it is. Asshats now confirming. This is so blatantly obvious.

To be clear, I'm commenting on Schoen and Daboll being held hostage.

I don't think he's going anywhere.

they should both go. I thought they would both get 5 years but after watching the first game combined with last year I so no reason to keep either of them.

as Eric stated last year, you for both and you start
all over again. Complete roster turnover, years until there’s ANY chance to compete.
Several more horrible seasons as the roster changes. By the time they are ready to compete, Dex and AT will be off the team.
Everybody on board for that.
I’m willing to bet Mara is NOT.
Schoen isn’t going anywhere. Daboll will have lose the team to get fired.
Once he benches Jones, things will get better.

Lock is a backup, but he’s roughly on Taylor’s level. He can be “competent”, allowing the rest of the team to play without 1 arm tied behind their backs.

IMO

In comment 16604586 Mike from Ohio said:

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Agree with what you laid out, but I don't think an arrangement like that would ever be ok with Mara. He is a traditionalist's traditionalist. He will want to hire a GM who hires a coach. I laid out in another thread that I can absolutely see Daboll getting let go and taking all the blame for Jones and all of Schoen's draft picks who have underachieved. I think it would be a disaster for the team, which is why I also believe it is the most likely outcome.

Lol exactly this. One of the worst possible outcomes so its likely.

has already said this. I think a LOT depends on whether Mara is the reason that Jones is playing. Not nice to fire people for his f-up. That would surely get around the league no one decent would ever take a job here

then I see them both coming back, picking their QB and adding more to the roster. I'm 99.9% sure Jones is gone though. In fact the whole QB could be turned over before they fire either guy.

The Jones and Saquon situations, he might be out of football all together in a couple of years.

And Schoen will be kept. I think this is bad.

I'm at the point where I'd want anyone we hire to have an iron clad 6 year commitment from Mara.

A lot of what haunts this franchise is short-termism. People make bad, short-sighted decisions when they think their jobs are on the line. Mara is such a fool that he expects the team to be good next year, every year, even when they obviously suck. This results in having no strategy - just grabbing whatever you can as soon as possible.

I'm fine with firing both guys. But I'd probably rather just have anyone - them or the next guys - operating from a position of security

In comment 16604469 Tom in NY said:

Quote:

In comment 16604405 widmerseyebrow said: Quote: I've been saying this since before the draft and I think they sealed their fate by not taking a QB. Here's why: out of all the possible outcomes of this season, I think we've probably safely eliminated a stellar year. The remaining possibilities are bad or middling, with the former looking likely. But even if we have a middling year (6-7 wins) why on earth should this regime, who will be firmly in the hot seat next year if they keep their jobs, get to choose the direction of the franchise for the next 3-4 years by selecting the next QB? Would Mara risk "screwing up" his quarterback again with more GM-HC switches during the new QBs rookie contract? It makes too much sense to reset and align the GM-HC-QB trifecta, especially given Schoen's drafting record to date. That's probably not what Mara planned. I personally think he told himself and perhaps Schoen that Schoen would get a longer leash because of his willingness to entertain his Daniel Jones project. But the public outcry will be massive by year's end and will force his hand. So you would have wanted them to take ANY QB, even if their scouting reports indicated they were not Franchise QB level? We won't know if they missed on JMM, Penix, or Nix for at least another year or two so hard to fire them if they followed their process for that. Conversely, had they drafted ANY QB, that in my mind would be a fireable offense.

There were prospects past the first round that they could've at least taken flyers on.