I think last years Dallas game ended him.
Dabol's leaving him in that game was inexcusable imo. He was never great but did do some things well and so I was cautiously supportive. Not any more.
He seems to have developed PTSD since that game and I have rarely, if ever, seen a QB turn that around.
This is not meant as an excuse for DJ - just the truth. He seems nervous and lacks confidence in the pocket. It has resulted in bad throws, bad decisions, and more sacks.
We have a large sample size of mediocre (and some good) play prior to 2023. We have a smaller sample of horrible play since 2023 (iirc SF, Seattle, Miami, Raiders, Minn). The problem is that the smaller sample size includes basically EVERY game since that Dallas game.
I believe that this team could win some games with the pre-2023 DJ. Unfortunately, I think that player is gone. I see little hope with this version.
It has been intercepted or sacked out of him.
PTSD my ass.
Yep that's us for sure ...
Having to watch Daniel Jones play football for more than a decade
(Thank you for your service)
PTSD my ass.
Eli Manning vs the 49ers in the 2011 NFC championship game alone.
I thought that hit he took against the Redskins in 2016 killed him.
I am beginning to think he can't adjust. I see it in the playcalling - despite DJ sucking.
I don't see DJ coming out of this so let's see when Daboll pulls him.
If he lets it go a quarter of the season he'll be securing is own fate.
Revising history?
Did 2020 and 2021 not happen? His numbers for those two seasons:
214 YPG, 63% completion percentage, 21 TDs and 17 INT. That’s bad football. It’s not revisionist history to say he’s always been bad, it’s true.
The blame then was placed on Judge and Garrett, but here we are with a new coach and new weapons and it’s the same thing.
2022 was the exception not the rule.
PTSD my ass.
I remember Simms quite well. He was vilified in NY until he stayed healthy in 1984, year 6 of his career.
Jones is in his 6th year and between, the lack of QB talent, lack of arm strength, the injuries and the PTSD, he is finished in NY because I don't think he could overcome all of this and the relentless fanbase and media.
Makes you appreciate Simms and El even more.
Jones has broken the rest of the Giants, because he plays football's most position so horribly that the rest of the Giants feel there's no point and subsequently live in a perpetual state of existential ennui.
Jones has broken the rest of the Giants, because he plays football's most position so horribly that the rest of the Giants feel there's no point and subsequently live in a perpetual state of existential ennui.
This is probably closer to the truth than it being the coaches fault.
He just should have been out of there for safety issues.
For crying out loud, Rodgers was pulled last night. You do it sometimes.
BUt last year's opener was the time to do it!!!!! 41-0? And getting your ass handed to you?
Jones has broken the rest of the Giants, because he plays football's most position so horribly that the rest of the Giants feel there's no point and subsequently live in a perpetual state of existential ennui.
I believe this. The team has zero confidence in him and it shows. They believe they're going to lose before they ever take the field.
QBs make the most money and get the lion's share of the credit (and blame) because it truly is the most important position on the team. A QB as bad as Daniel Jones has been since the start of last season destroys a team's spirit.
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He was never meant to play quarterback in the NFL.
He just should have been out of there for safety issues.
For crying out loud, Rodgers was pulled last night. You do it sometimes.
BUt last year's opener was the time to do it!!!!! 41-0? And getting your ass handed to you?
If that broke Jones then he’s just a pussy, I’m sorry.
People who actually suffer from it shouldnt have to read their legitmate mental health trauma be equated to a football player playing football. Its silly and disrespectful.
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In comment 16604479 ajr2456 said:
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He was never meant to play quarterback in the NFL.
He just should have been out of there for safety issues.
For crying out loud, Rodgers was pulled last night. You do it sometimes.
BUt last year's opener was the time to do it!!!!! 41-0? And getting your ass handed to you?
If that broke Jones then he’s just a pussy, I’m sorry.
You're missing my point entirely.
I am not saying it broke him.
I'm saying its BAD COACHING.
Why leave him in - in a game you can't win and he could get injured.
Is that smart?
Think about that when you evaluate Daboll.
It's Year 6 and well beyond over...bench him and/or release him.
I was ready to give up but today is Tuesday. If we lose to Washington and look as bad, I might throw in the towel. But today I'm a fan.
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that's just as valid as the "Daboll broke Jones and it's all Daboll's fault and not Daniel Jones' fault at all" theory:
Jones has broken the rest of the Giants, because he plays football's most position so horribly that the rest of the Giants feel there's no point and subsequently live in a perpetual state of existential ennui.
I believe this. The team has zero confidence in him and it shows. They believe they're going to lose before they ever take the field.
QBs make the most money and get the lion's share of the credit (and blame) because it truly is the most important position on the team. A QB as bad as Daniel Jones has been since the start of last season destroys a team's spirit.
The team is demoralized. The players know who can play and who can't. With Jones they have zero confidence. How many times on good teams have you heard players say things like I knew if we kept it close the QB or offense would come through. You never hear that here. The WRs know if they are open they still aren't getting the ball, the OL has no idea what he is doing behind them. Its a mess, all because of one terrible player at the one position you need a leader.
Players know, and players talk to one another. You don’t think Brian Thomas is in Malik Nabers’ ear that he’s got a better QB?
Jones reactions - ( New Window )
The next line is always an excuse or defense for Jones.
It's not PTSD. He's just not a good QB.
You sir - incorrectly go for low hanging fruit - need to be seasoned and grilled! PTSD is a flaw not an excuse and the fact that you think my post is a defense of Jones is a testament to your poor reading habits.
A week ago I was all in on Brian Daboll. Today I think Brian Daboll is on his way to never being a HC in the NFL after this season. If what we saw Sunday continues for 16 more games he'll be lucky to be back in college as an OC somewhere.
His team was unprepared and unmotivated. The opposing coach undressed him on both sides of the ball and his play calling was a joke. Everyone who roots for the Giants including the people who own the team had to mortified by what they saw.
Explain this play calling/game plan to me:
With the score 0-0
2nd & Goal at MIN 6
(8:40 - 1st) (Shotgun) D.Jones left end to MIN 5 for 1 yard (A.Van Ginkel; H.Phillips).
3rd & Goal at MIN 5
(7:58 - 1st) (Shotgun) D.Jones sacked at MIN 5 for 0 yards (A.Van Ginkel).
With the score Minnesota 14 - Giants 3
2nd & 5 at NYG 49
(4:53 - 2nd) (Shotgun) D.Jones left tackle to MIN 48 for 3 yards (B.Cashman, P.Jones).
3rd & 2 at MIN 48
(4:15 - 2nd) (Shotgun) D.Jones right tackle to MIN 49 for -1 yards (J.Bullard).
AND THEN HE PUNTED DOWN 11 POINTS ON 4TH AND 3. HE GAVE UP IN THE 2ND QTR OF THE 1ST GAME OF THE YEAR.
copy and paste that this link. https://www.espn.com/nfl/playbyplay/_/gameId/401671712
It's the play by play summary from the game Sunday.
Daniel Jones threw 42 passes. In the summary 40 of them were listed as "short pass". WTF? He threw 2 "long pass" one Nabers caught the other Hyatt dropped although it was a bad pass as usual.
Jones stats 22/42 186 2 INTs 16.6 QBR and Daboll says it's not in his mind to change QBs? Ok good luck in your future endeavors Brian.
How can the GM and HC go into their 3rd year with QB they don't trust to throw the ball more than 5 yards downfield?
We have seen Eli throw 4 picks in a game and the next week he has a game winning drive..
I am sorry that is BS
It is on him for sure. He had his flaws - and may not have been the answer - but he was never as bad as he has been since that game. He has reached a Fromm-like level and even his most vicious critics can't say he has always been like that.
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Only veterans suffer from PTSD. Again, a lack of understanding.
People who actually suffer from it shouldnt have to read their legitmate mental health trauma be equated to a football player playing football. Its silly and disrespectful.
Tell that to the posters that brought up the military.
If you don't understand that PTSD can happen to anyone though, then educate yourself. Something like an injury, car accident or any traumatic event can cause it.
Yep.
Thibs clearly is. And it would not be shocking if he plays at the snap based on such an agenda either.
Nobody medicalizes David Carr or Joey Harrington or Johnny Manziel or Josh Rosen or Tim Couch or Zack Wilson or any of the many, many QBs who had a worse pro experience. Nobody says they have a psychological condition.
It's a free country, I'm not the Corner Forum Police, people can write what they want. But this PTSD stuff is ridiculous. Literally ridiculous: worth of ridicule. It's insulting to everyone who actually has PTSD. Let it go, people.
Fair enough on PTSD - no disrespect intended - I was using it as a point of reference not a literal diagnosis. My point is that he was never as bad as he has been since that game. Are you saying that Sunday was typical of how he has played prior to 2023?
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Lots of quarterbacks have had worse careers than DJ. He got to play as a rookie. He's been the unquestioned starter for 5 years. He won a road playoff game. He's been hit a lot; a lot of quarterbacks are hit a lot. He didn't see combat in Afghanistan. He wasn't assaulted or kidnapped and held hostage or tortured.
Nobody medicalizes David Carr or Joey Harrington or Johnny Manziel or Josh Rosen or Tim Couch or Zack Wilson or any of the many, many QBs who had a worse pro experience. Nobody says they have a psychological condition.
It's a free country, I'm not the Corner Forum Police, people can write what they want. But this PTSD stuff is ridiculous. Literally ridiculous: worth of ridicule. It's insulting to everyone who actually has PTSD. Let it go, people.
Fair enough on PTSD - no disrespect intended - I was using it as a point of reference not a literal diagnosis. My point is that he was never as bad as he has been since that game. Are you saying that Sunday was typical of how he has played prior to 2023?
You are fine reale, just read an article from the NIH that 1 in 8 athletes suffer from PTSD. It's not disrespectful as much as some ignorant folk here want to make it. Some people just don't want to give an excuse because it doesn't vibe with their opinions that he has always flat out sucked.
The real question though, is why are the coaches not seeing it? There was no competition for the #1 spot, no reps for Lock. At the very least they should have had an open competition for the #1 job imo. No preseason reps. We went out and laid an egg again but it’s not only Jones who played poorly, it was a poor effort all around.
I’d say that Daboll should be fired if this season goes like last season. The other coach basically said the Giants were unprepared. That’s unacceptable. If we go out and lay an egg against Washington, start the fire under his seat. There is talent here, it seems coaching is lacking when I see players go to other teams and at least compete.
I think they did see it. Thats why they did more 11 on 11 to get as close as possible to simulating a pass rush. Unfortunately, it does not fully present itself until its live action. The only way to really simulate that is pre-season games - and he did not play much.
He plays best on the road against bad defenses. Unfortunately for us, that's nowhere near good enough. Just enough to fool the decision makers.
That game was not completely out of control until Jones threw his second INT, which was just an awful, boneheaded, "3rd round rookie making his first NFL start" type throw.
10 minutes left with the ball, down 19-0 but a TD builds momentum and makes it a two score game. And the bum couldn't even throw the ball out of bounds.
If the coach has to worry about the QBs feelings after he sank the team, then the QB isn't worth a damn (news flash, he isn't anyway). I am firmly in the "he made his bed, now lie in it" camp.
Iguess you got the break you requested since nobody said he should have come out this week to protect him. The Dallas game was different - the best RB and two OL were out. No chance at anything good happening. That said you have to overcome beatings like that to play QB in the NFL and he has not been able to do that.
2) One game ruins a guy? Then that guy has no business in the NFL at all.
3) He's just a bad QB. Period. 2022 was so grossly overhyped by too many. It was a mediocre season that got trumped up as something special.
4) He needs a DRASTIC improvement to change a lot of opinions at this point.
"Jones was a good QB who was simply destroyed by the forces around him"
Everyone is responsible for Daniel Jones' struggles except Daniel Jones.
You need to re-read my post. He has not been able to overcome that beating and that is on him. I am not saying he was great to begin with but was never this bad. We could win some games with the pre-2023 DJ - not with this version.
2) One game ruins a guy? Then that guy has no business in the NFL at all.
3) He's just a bad QB. Period. 2022 was so grossly overhyped by too many. It was a mediocre season that got trumped up as something special.
4) He needs a DRASTIC improvement to change a lot of opinions at this point.
PTSD my ass.
I saw Simms play vs the BR Eagles and he usually sucked against them. The difference is he that he usually came back and played well the next week.
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Simms took some ungodly beatings in his career. The abuse he suffered at the hands of the Buddy Ryan-era Eagles makes me shudder just to think of it.
PTSD my ass.
,
I saw Simms play vs the BR Eagles and he usually sucked against them. The difference is he that he usually came back and played well the next week.
He can make all the throws in practice in a controlled environment where he can't be hit. This absolutely reeks of someone that is watching the rush.
He was not like this until after the Dallas game or ever this bad.
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1) PTSD? Give me a fucking break. When he did play last year , he was the same QB he was most of his career.
2) One game ruins a guy? Then that guy has no business in the NFL at all.
3) He's just a bad QB. Period. 2022 was so grossly overhyped by too many. It was a mediocre season that got trumped up as something special.
4) He needs a DRASTIC improvement to change a lot of opinions at this point.
Last stand of the Jones fans. They know it's over.
Matt I said that he was never as bad as he became during and after the Dallas game last year. I said HORRIBLE play has been a trend that started last year/
He's just so bad it's borderline comical now.
PTSD my ass.
He took some beating from the Cowboys Randy White and ED "Too Tall" Jones as well.
He clearly doesn’t believe in the guy he’s sending out there, yet he doesn’t pull the plug?
Jones was ALWAYS marginal. He now has been beaten up, had 2 serious neck injuries AND an ACL. He’s at a point where he will never work here. Maybe he can be a backup somewhere but the time for him to be a starter is done.
The longer Daboll stays with him the greater the chance he gets the boot.
How he doesn’t see that is beyond me.
The ONLY other possibility is they Mara has given Schoen and Daboll an edict that DJ is the QB until he says otherwise. That would be terrible.
Jones best season came in 2019 when he was a rookie and no-one in the league knew who the heck he was. Once defensive coordinators figured him out it was over. Dan Quinn knows this guy very well. We ARE not beating Washington unless the defense and special teams come up big.
Jones best season came in 2019 when he was a rookie and no-one in the league knew who the heck he was. Once defensive coordinators figured him out it was over. Dan Quinn knows this guy very well. We ARE not beating Washington unless the defense and special teams come up big.
That's if he's lucky enough to hit anything close to a player on the field when he throws outside the numbers. Holy shit. Some of the worst, wimpy throws I've ever witnessed in my life.
It didn't even take much into his rookie year to figure him out either. When he kept rolling out to his right in the New England game, BB had a DB back directly in his face meeting him. Jones has NO awareness they were ready for the roll out to the right every single time and they kept running it. I noticed this because I was at that game and he never improved on any of his awareness or as another poster said, hitting targets in stride. He's just awful.
Matt Waldman in 2019: "One area where Jones must improve is his processing. What I mean by that is the time it takes between seeing the open receiver and delivering the ball."
Watch the linked video. Read Sy's report.
Enough already. The guy was never any good.
Matt Waldman on Daniel Jones: Fast and Slow Processing - ( New Window )
The ONLY other possibility is they Mara has given Schoen and Daboll an edict that DJ is the QB until he says otherwise. That would be terrible.
That is my guess. Totally screws over Daboll. He has to play a QB who has demonstrated is not up to the job. At the same time, he loses the confidence of the players who know DJ can’t cut it and Daboll doesn’t have final say on who plays. And it’s Daboll’s fault when this grand plan fails.
Matt Waldman in 2019: "One area where Jones must improve is his processing. What I mean by that is the time it takes between seeing the open receiver and delivering the ball."
Watch the linked video. Read Sy's report.
Enough already. The guy was never any good. Matt Waldman on Daniel Jones: Fast and Slow Processing - ( New Window )
I said before, if he was surrounded by this perfect offensive line, HOF tight ends and WRs, he'd be the same exact QB. If he were the QB of the Bucs in 2020, would Tampa Bay have even been a playoff team?