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Schoen may have to fire his buddy…

5BowlsSoon : 9/10/2024 11:32 am
If his buddy still thinks Jones, after what he did last year, what he did in preseason, and what he did opening week is our best bet for success. Clearly, practically every Giant fans knows Jones’ issues….how could Daboll not know it? How can our supposed smart people just ignore what everybody sees and is saying?

Even Schoen at Hard Knocks reluctantly knows Jones isn’t the one, and tried to move up to pick third. I’m not sure why Schoen didn’t either draft a QB or pick up one at the 53 cut off date….there were and still are plenty out there who have promise and we could at least be getting them to learn the playbook, assuming we don’t believe Cutlets could ever be the man. While I have no confidence in Lock, Schoen apparently does. Let’s see…

Even if Jones plays well this coming week v Commanders, don’t be fooled. Jones’ issues won’t go away….like many have said…this is his 6th year with no progress at all.

SCHOEN PROBABLY HAS TO BE NUDGED TO DO THIS……SOON! (I know, this is all wishful thinking….i just don’t think the loyal fans and my heart can take much more of this torture. We just can’t look so inept at home, especially against mediocre teams.)
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RE: RE: RE: RE: What  
nygiants16 : 9/10/2024 12:13 pm : link
In comment 16604484 BillKo said:
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In comment 16604473 nygiants16 said:


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In comment 16604461 BillKo said:


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In comment 16604451 Greg from LI said:


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Daboll to me still thinks he coaching Josh Allen.

Calling QB runs like that - he did that with Allen. Not going to work here.

DJ sucks but there literally zero imagination with the offense.

Can we run a screen pass? How about a reverse?

The dude has lost his mojo from Season 1 - and yeah DJ sucks but Daboll is underperforming too.



There were literally wide receivers running wide open that Jones pump faked to throw short...

How do you want a play caller to be more imaginative when the QB cant make a simple read?

Maybe i am just stupid but if Daboll calls a play and 2 guys are wide open and Jones misses them to throw short dump off, how is that on Daboll?



Then ask yourself this, based on what you just wrote.

Why would any coach keep playing the QB who can't find these receivers running free?

Seems to me the missing link is the QB - so go to the backup and let him find these open guys at higher rate and improve your chances.

Does Daboll want to get fired?

He's coaching as if he does.


He is not going to bench him after 1 game..

Now if he is stillnplayong like he is playing and Daboll continues to trot him out there, than i will agree eith you
RE: RE: Daboll...  
BillKo : 9/10/2024 12:18 pm : link
In comment 16604502 Sec 103 said:
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In comment 16604438 bw in dc said:


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got 7 wins out of this horrible team last year. That's very underrated around here.

So. he's done his job considerably better than his direct report. It's not even close.


Disagree, when your team comes out as flat and unprepared two seasons in a row, plus the Cards game for a half. That is on the coaches. Was surprised year one, but that has worn off big time


Ehhh, there's a ton of garbage in the NFL.

Plus, look at the games they won last year - all ugly. Could have lost several of those. Also - lost of games they could have or should have (like the Jets). But that was ugly either way too.

Daboll was new himself in 2022. Teams are adjusting to him too.

I think he needs to look in the mirror at what he's doing and how he's doing it.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Schoen needs to be fired  
nygiants16 : 9/10/2024 12:18 pm : link
In comment 16604501 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 16604478 nygiants16 said:


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In comment 16604466 JoeyBigBlue said:


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In comment 16604424 5BowlsSoon said:


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In comment 16604407 JoeyBigBlue said:


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Before Daboll. He’s done a worse job than Daboll.



Care to explain this? I think Schoen has done a decent job getting us some good players this off-season. The OL is better…very good WRs…promising secondary….brought Jackson back..

Daboll is not a good OC or a good HC. Josh Allen made him look better than he is as an OC and his coaching decisions have now become questionable.




Schoen’s drafts have been underwhelming, he’s free agency signing have been disappointing, and his trades have been bad as well. He’s done a poor job. It’s very easy to see.



How can you possibly judge Schoens drsfts in 2 seasons? other than Neal who isnt playing at all and maybe Ezeudu, how can you evaluate last years and this years drsfts already?




Neal, Ezeudu, and Flott are bust… all top 85 picks are BUST. No sugarcoating that. He had 5 picks in the top 85 picks in that draft, including 2 top 10 picks and did not land 1 Pro Bowl caliber player. KT can turn it around, but it’s not looking like it after Sunday’s stinker.


Flott is what he is, he is a slot corner, he is not an outside guy and that was what we knew when he was drafted..

Thibs had 11.5 sacks last year in a system that didnt not cater to edge rushers, forgive me if i dont write him off after 1 bad game..

and this years draft picks all played well in sundays game
.  
SoZKillA : 9/10/2024 12:24 pm : link
Both can go
RE: Keep an open mind regarding this theory.  
Scooter185 : 9/10/2024 12:26 pm : link
In comment 16604487 MOOPS said:
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Schoen and Daboll didn't deem any QBs other than the top 3 worth drafting at #6.
Mara loves Jones.
Schoen and Daboll go with Jones, sink or swim and probably thinking it's the sink part, to once and for all get Mara off their backs. The one and only way to open Mara's eyes.


Unfortunately for them they forgot to take into account fan reaction and how sensitive to it Mara is.

When they didn't take a QB in the draft, many just said "oh well if Jones sucks they'll get a QB next year" as if a bad year from Jones would be consequence free for the coaches and FO. As we can see after 1 week, fans are already turning on the coaches/FO.
I guess we should expect this from the guy who thought  
Section331 : 9/10/2024 12:28 pm : link
Jones would have a pro bowl season, but how do you watch the last year plus of this team and come away thinking that it is Daboll who is sticking with Jones? How obtuse do you have to be?

Daboll wants NOTHING to do with him, that was crystal clear with the tablet-throwing incident. If not, you merely have to watch how he jumped on any QB Schoen mentioned in HK as someone he wanted. Or his smirk when Schoen answered "yes" to his question, "so this is our QB room for this season?". This is clearly not Daboll's decision, and I find it incredulous that Schoen would be the one telling Daboll that he can't make the switch.

This reeks of John Mara. What in his history would tell you any differently? How he handled the Eli benching, going along with it, then throwing McAdoo under the bus when the blowback came, to then somehow deciding that the guy you agreed to bench is not the guy you want to rebuild around. He hired DG for that very purpose, someone he knew would agree to roll it back with Eli.

At least sticking with Eli is defensible, he had the pedigree. Jones has none, but that hasn't stopped Mara from being full on in love with him.
RE: RE: RE: Schoen needs to be fired  
aGiantGuy : 9/10/2024 12:29 pm : link
In comment 16604466 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 16604424 5BowlsSoon said:


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In comment 16604407 JoeyBigBlue said:


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Before Daboll. He’s done a worse job than Daboll.



Care to explain this? I think Schoen has done a decent job getting us some good players this off-season. The OL is better…very good WRs…promising secondary….brought Jackson back..

Daboll is not a good OC or a good HC. Josh Allen made him look better than he is as an OC and his coaching decisions have now become questionable.




Schoen’s drafts have been underwhelming, he’s free agency signing have been disappointing, and his trades have been bad as well. He’s done a poor job. It’s very easy to see.

THIS.

What's even worse to me is how he refused to listen to his top advisors, Brandon Brown and Chris Rossetti, the entire HK series. Even Frank Gore couldn't change his conviction on Saquon despite Schoen stating "When he talks running backs, you listen."

They warned him multiple times that his evaluation of Saquon's market isn't reality and he refused to acknowledge their suggestions despite the indirect demand from ownership to handle the Saquon situation with care. Saquon is one micro-decision of many that we've failed on but it's the leadership dyanmic(specifically between middle management and the GM) that truly scares me and has me pessimistic about the Giants future.

There are a lot of stud personnel guys in that FO but it doesnt seem like their voices are truly heard. I can only imagine what happens on draft day when it's rapid fire.
RE: I would not assume  
Toth029 : 9/10/2024 12:33 pm : link
In comment 16604393 Bill in UT said:
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that Schoen and Daboll are not on the same page re:Jones.


One of the asshats said Daboll wanted Nabers point blank. Maybe Schoen liked the other QB's after #6, but we won't know until later.
Ezuedo and Flott  
jeff57 : 9/10/2024 12:36 pm : link
Went at least 2 rounds before they should have.
Jones shouldn't be benched based on 1 game.  
ThomasG : 9/10/2024 12:41 pm : link
He should be based on all 61 though.
RE: RE: I would not assume  
Scooter185 : 9/10/2024 1:01 pm : link
In comment 16604530 Toth029 said:
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In comment 16604393 Bill in UT said:


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that Schoen and Daboll are not on the same page re:Jones.



One of the asshats said Daboll wanted Nabers point blank. Maybe Schoen liked the other QB's after #6, but we won't know until later.


If that is true maybe that explains his demeanor this week, he knows he F'd up
RE: RE: RE: I would not assume  
aGiantGuy : 9/10/2024 1:04 pm : link
In comment 16604576 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16604530 Toth029 said:


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In comment 16604393 Bill in UT said:


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that Schoen and Daboll are not on the same page re:Jones.



One of the asshats said Daboll wanted Nabers point blank. Maybe Schoen liked the other QB's after #6, but we won't know until later.



If that is true maybe that explains his demeanor this week, he knows he F'd up

Nabers is one of two talented players on this entire offense but you think Daboll fucked up? I don't understand.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I would not assume  
Scooter185 : 9/10/2024 1:05 pm : link
In comment 16604579 aGiantGuy said:
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In comment 16604576 Scooter185 said:


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In comment 16604530 Toth029 said:


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In comment 16604393 Bill in UT said:


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that Schoen and Daboll are not on the same page re:Jones.



One of the asshats said Daboll wanted Nabers point blank. Maybe Schoen liked the other QB's after #6, but we won't know until later.



If that is true maybe that explains his demeanor this week, he knows he F'd up


Nabers is one of two talented players on this entire offense but you think Daboll fucked up? I don't understand.


Wanting a WR over a QB may very well cost him his job
Is it too early to discuss  
MTN-G-man : 9/10/2024 1:07 pm : link
The start of Tankaton?
Just  
MTN-G-man : 9/10/2024 1:10 pm : link
Joking.
RE: Is it too early to discuss  
jeff57 : 9/10/2024 1:12 pm : link
In comment 16604583 MTN-G-man said:
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The start of Tankaton?


Tarkenton?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I would not assume  
jeff57 : 9/10/2024 1:13 pm : link
In comment 16604581 Scooter185 said:
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In comment 16604579 aGiantGuy said:


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In comment 16604576 Scooter185 said:


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In comment 16604530 Toth029 said:


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In comment 16604393 Bill in UT said:


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that Schoen and Daboll are not on the same page re:Jones.



One of the asshats said Daboll wanted Nabers point blank. Maybe Schoen liked the other QB's after #6, but we won't know until later.



If that is true maybe that explains his demeanor this week, he knows he F'd up


Nabers is one of two talented players on this entire offense but you think Daboll fucked up? I don't understand.



Wanting a WR over a QB may very well cost him his job


He tried to trade up for one.
The joke in my mind was Dab's QB interviews on Hard Knocks  
GiantBlue : 9/10/2024 1:18 pm : link
He comes off being a master tactician who demands the most mental as well as physical from his quarterbacks.....

and then walks into the QB room where Danny sits.

Is it like the Dad who has three kids...two cerebral and one suited for Vo Tech?

I am astounded he is okay with what he is getting from DJ.
RE: RE: What  
56goat : 9/10/2024 1:19 pm : link
In comment 16604461 BillKo said:
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In comment 16604451 Greg from LI said:


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Daboll to me still thinks he coaching Josh Allen.

Calling QB runs like that - he did that with Allen. Not going to work here.

DJ sucks but there literally zero imagination with the offense.

Can we run a screen pass? How about a reverse?

The dude has lost his mojo from Season 1 - and yeah DJ sucks but Daboll is underperforming too.


Well the Vikings enjoyed the last screen we tried. Dude is still running with that one.
RE: RE: RE: RE: What  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/10/2024 1:20 pm : link
In comment 16604484 BillKo said:
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In comment 16604473 nygiants16 said:


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In comment 16604461 BillKo said:


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In comment 16604451 Greg from LI said:


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Daboll to me still thinks he coaching Josh Allen.

Calling QB runs like that - he did that with Allen. Not going to work here.

DJ sucks but there literally zero imagination with the offense.

Can we run a screen pass? How about a reverse?

The dude has lost his mojo from Season 1 - and yeah DJ sucks but Daboll is underperforming too.



There were literally wide receivers running wide open that Jones pump faked to throw short...

How do you want a play caller to be more imaginative when the QB cant make a simple read?

Maybe i am just stupid but if Daboll calls a play and 2 guys are wide open and Jones misses them to throw short dump off, how is that on Daboll?



Then ask yourself this, based on what you just wrote.

Why would any coach keep playing the QB who can't find these receivers running free?

Seems to me the missing link is the QB - so go to the backup and let him find these open guys at higher rate and improve your chances.

Does Daboll want to get fired?

He's coaching as if he does.

Why would anyone assume that Daboll has full autonomy with regard to choosing the starting QB? And why would anyone assume that benching DJ, rather than starting him (even against Daboll's own best judgment, if that's the case) would preserve Daboll's job?

You don't need to go very far back in history to see what happened the last time a HC & GM decided to make a QB change that required putting a Mara fave on the bench.

We can sit here and agree that DJ is not Eli, but that doesn't mean that Mara would handle it any differently. The only difference is that this time around there wouldn't be an outpouring of public support from the fanbase that Mara would be caving to. If anything, the public sentiment seems to overwhelmingly want DJ benched.

We'll see what happens, but I just don't honestly believe that Daboll actually has the freedom to make a change at QB without a larger conversation with executive mgmt, including John Mara (IMO).
From Daboll's perspective, is the best time to bench Jones  
ThomasG : 9/10/2024 1:29 pm : link
sometime during the game itself when he/Offense are struggling? That way he can say it was a function of what he saw coaching in-game and trying to provide a spark.

That way he doesn't have face the external/internal pressures of debating through and announcing the decision before a game.

It doesn't help the backup QB come in cold, but whatever.
RE: From Daboll's perspective, is the best time to bench Jones  
nygiants16 : 9/10/2024 1:48 pm : link
In comment 16604620 ThomasG said:
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sometime during the game itself when he/Offense are struggling? That way he can say it was a function of what he saw coaching in-game and trying to provide a spark.

That way he doesn't have face the external/internal pressures of debating through and announcing the decision before a game.

It doesn't help the backup QB come in cold, but whatever.


I honestly wouodnt be surprised if Daboll and Schoen have already had these conversations possibly with Mara as well..

I am sure Daboll wants to put a plan in place for whem he makes that change..

To me i would give Jones a more than a half leash, i would of pulled him at halftime of the 1st game but that was never going to happen
I don't think Daboll think much of Jones at all  
Matt M. : 9/10/2024 1:54 pm : link
He made it quite clear he wanted Daniels and his comments and body language all off season seemed to indicate he was not enamored wit3h the QB situation he do have.
Possible  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/10/2024 2:16 pm : link
If the poor performances continue then you move to the self preservation stage. They will discuss with Mara if they plan on benching Jones. JM will allow it imv.

Really doesn't change much as to what will happen with the HC. Results will dictate what/if changes happen (HC and GM).

I don't think JM will allow the HC to be fired in season unless it is clear just about everyone is saying it should happen outside the BDDT.
RE: I think if one gets fired  
46and2Blue : 9/10/2024 2:19 pm : link
In comment 16604406 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
so does the other. On top of that, I don't think either honestly believes Jones is the future of the Giants. I think they just hoped he'd play good enough to be a stop gap while they looked for a true franchise QB.

I do not see a scenario where Jones is "Daboll's guy" and is playing him against Joe's advice.


This! I think they thought he would play good enough for them find the true franchise guy. This has been a mess for so long. Hope is not a strategy
RE: RE: Daboll...  
bw in dc : 9/10/2024 2:30 pm : link
In comment 16604502 Sec 103 said:
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In comment 16604438 bw in dc said:


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got 7 wins out of this horrible team last year. That's very underrated around here.

So. he's done his job considerably better than his direct report. It's not even close.


Disagree, when your team comes out as flat and unprepared two seasons in a row, plus the Cards game for a half. That is on the coaches. Was surprised year one, but that has worn off big time


I don't think the team was unprepared on Sunday.

The defense is under a new DC with new schemes. So, there could be a lag there before things - hopefully - come together. And the corners got exposed because the supposed strength of the D - edge rushing - couldn't beat a blocking sled.

The offense failed to execute because the QB couldn't take advantage of the opportunities the OL and the play calling presented. Just read Sy's review today. What do you want Daboll to do when his QB1 plays like a QB3?

Look, I don't want to paint a picture that Daboll is a reincarnation of Don Shula. But he's done his job better than Schoen thus far; and he shouldn't be first in line in this hypothetical if there needs to be a change in duties.





I Believe John Mara's 1/26/2022 Quote Is "Marching Orders"  
Trainmaster : 9/10/2024 2:33 pm : link
to Schoen and Daboll:

Quote:
“We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up since he’s been here,”


Whether formal, informal or implied.

"Doing what the boss wants" rarely gets you fired. My guess is Jones will get another one to three games, then Daboll will be free to move on from Jones, with a "Sorry guys, I guess I was wrong and your guys were right." acknowledgment from Mara.

However, if the Giants finish 4-13 or worse, I think the empty seats and the drone flights with "12 Years Of Lousy Football ..." will force Mara's hand to tell / allow Schoen to fire Daboll.


NYPost: John Mara vows to help Daniel Jones after Giants ‘screwed this kid up’ - ( New Window )
RE: Possible  
ThomasG : 9/10/2024 2:36 pm : link
In comment 16604669 Lines of Scrimmage said:
Quote:
If the poor performances continue then you move to the self preservation stage. They will discuss with Mara if they plan on benching Jones. JM will allow it imv.



If I were Schoen or Daboll, I would tape that discussion with Mara.


Sincerely,

Ben & Jerry
RE: You have to love BBI.  
Section331 : 9/10/2024 3:07 pm : link
In comment 16604489 section125 said:
Quote:
One thread says that Daboll and Schoen wanted a new QB and Daboll looked unhappy when Jones was coming back (so same QB room? comment).

And now 5Bowls has Daboll wanting Jones....you can not make this disparity up... and Schoen firing Daboll for having Jones.

Which is it?


I don’t for the life of me understand why some people act like BBI is all of one mind. 5Bowls thinks it’s Daboll’s decision to play Jones, I think it’s Mara’s. We disagree, how is that hard to understand?
Why should Schoen get the chance to fire anyone?  
NYDCBlue : 9/10/2024 3:11 pm : link
What has this guy done right since he got here? He doesn't draft well. He makes world class terrible trade after terrible trade, after terrible trade. And his record in free agency is below average.

The first person in the front office who needs to be shown the front door first is Schoen if it comes to that after this season.
RE: …  
NYDCBlue : 9/10/2024 3:19 pm : link
In comment 16604427 christian said:
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Promising secondary?


Yup, at least now we can say we have a pretty good #2 CB in Tae Banks....

Now we just need to find a good #1 CB, a starting Slot CB, and at least one decent dept CB....

How many draft picks has Schoen spent on cornerbacks already???? Although to be fair, Dru Philips looked decent in limited action.
There's another scenario  
JohnF : 9/10/2024 3:32 pm : link
Where Mara fires Schoen and Daboll because "I (John Mara) know Daniel has talent, he just needs a better GM and Coach to bring it out."

Schoen and Daboll have given him ammunition for this move. The whole team stunk against the Vikings, not just DJ. That's on Daboll's dime. And Schoen has not done the job with his drafting, Free Agency, and losing Barkley. We have high round draft choices and expensive Free Agents that are doing nothing on the field.

So, Mara could just fire Daboll/Schoen, elevate Kafka to interim HC, and put Tim McDonnell as GM.

Result? Guess who is coming back in 2025 as the starting QB of the New York Giants??? Oh, and excuse me while I puke. I hope to God this does not happen, or this franchise is going to be destroyed for another 10 years...
RE: There's another scenario  
Scooter185 : 9/10/2024 3:43 pm : link
In comment 16604759 JohnF said:
Quote:
Where Mara fires Schoen and Daboll because "I (John Mara) know Daniel has talent, he just needs a better GM and Coach to bring it out."

Schoen and Daboll have given him ammunition for this move. The whole team stunk against the Vikings, not just DJ. That's on Daboll's dime. And Schoen has not done the job with his drafting, Free Agency, and losing Barkley. We have high round draft choices and expensive Free Agents that are doing nothing on the field.

So, Mara could just fire Daboll/Schoen, elevate Kafka to interim HC, and put Tim McDonnell as GM.

Result? Guess who is coming back in 2025 as the starting QB of the New York Giants??? Oh, and excuse me while I puke. I hope to God this does not happen, or this franchise is going to be destroyed for another 10 years...


If that happens every STH and PSL holder should not renew
RE: RE: RE: Schoen needs to be fired  
NJLCO : 9/10/2024 4:12 pm : link
In comment 16604466 JoeyBigBlue said:
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In comment 16604424 5BowlsSoon said:


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In comment 16604407 JoeyBigBlue said:


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Before Daboll. He’s done a worse job than Daboll.



Care to explain this? I think Schoen has done a decent job getting us some good players this off-season. The OL is better…very good WRs…promising secondary….brought Jackson back..

Daboll is not a good OC or a good HC. Josh Allen made him look better than he is as an OC and his coaching decisions have now become questionable.




Schoen’s drafts have been underwhelming, he’s free agency signing have been disappointing, and his trades have been bad as well. He’s done a poor job. It’s very easy to see.

I totally agree with this, Thibs and Neal look like buts in year three. 2 top tens that are well below average.
RE: There's another scenario  
FStubbs : 9/10/2024 4:31 pm : link
In comment 16604759 JohnF said:
Quote:
Where Mara fires Schoen and Daboll because "I (John Mara) know Daniel has talent, he just needs a better GM and Coach to bring it out."

Schoen and Daboll have given him ammunition for this move. The whole team stunk against the Vikings, not just DJ. That's on Daboll's dime. And Schoen has not done the job with his drafting, Free Agency, and losing Barkley. We have high round draft choices and expensive Free Agents that are doing nothing on the field.

So, Mara could just fire Daboll/Schoen, elevate Kafka to interim HC, and put Tim McDonnell as GM.

Result? Guess who is coming back in 2025 as the starting QB of the New York Giants??? Oh, and excuse me while I puke. I hope to God this does not happen, or this franchise is going to be destroyed for another 10 years...


No, actually, that scenario is good. It exposes the problem once and for all. Or Kafka turns into Bill Walsh.
But seriously....  
FStubbs : 9/10/2024 4:33 pm : link
As Yogi Berra said, it's getting late awful early for this regime.
IMO  
aGiantGuy : 9/10/2024 4:56 pm : link
The only viable explanation for the moves we all witnessed this off-season is that we're witnessing a tank job that management is attempting to keep under wraps.

Replacing their most popular player, Saquon Barkley, with Nabers, lipstick on a pig. The moment the league-wide astronomical cap increase became public, the strategy concerning Saquon Barkley should have been re-evaluated and shifted to reflect the new market. They refused to adjust to the new figure and therefore, other teams sat still and simply picked our pockets.

Now, we've forced Jones to be a gunslinger in a one-dimensional offense, asking him to thread the needle in tight windows... and layer touch passes vs the tampa 2. Something he's never shown the capacity to do. But somehow, this is a coaching issue? No, it's a personnel issue. 100%.

We think we're doing ourselves a favor by letting players walk but we aren't acknowledging the opportunity cost associated with needing to draft or pay for their replacements. I can understand letting veteran players walk as they turn 30 but we're letting players walk as they're hitting their athletic peak. 26, 27, and 28 year old's. And instead of increasing our investment & research on player development, pre-hab, and training methods to increase their prime years. We're letting studs walk to teams that already have that in place.

Example, AJ Brown was "injury-prone" his whole Tennessee career, goes to the Eagles and misses 1 game in 2 years, it's insane. Make matters worse, the player they spent a 1st rd pick on to replace him, Treylon Burks, can barely make the team, let alone replace production. It consistently happens with the same teams.

Was low-balling Saquon really a necessary bargain if we have to spend a 2nd rd pick on his replacement next year because we were unable to run teams out of cover 2? I mean RB's already get paid less than every other position, we have to double down by not even paying them on a discount? The biggest difference between Saquon and Nabers, is one of them has to rely on Jones to be productive!

For whatever blowback we experience as fans, I personally feel that Schoen should be the first one to be accountable. I mean, he is the leader on all things personnel.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: What  
GiantTuff1 : 9/10/2024 5:43 pm : link
In comment 16604607 Gatorade Dunk said:
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In comment 16604484 BillKo said:


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In comment 16604473 nygiants16 said:


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In comment 16604461 BillKo said:


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In comment 16604451 Greg from LI said:


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.



Daboll to me still thinks he coaching Josh Allen.

Calling QB runs like that - he did that with Allen. Not going to work here.

DJ sucks but there literally zero imagination with the offense.

Can we run a screen pass? How about a reverse?

The dude has lost his mojo from Season 1 - and yeah DJ sucks but Daboll is underperforming too.



There were literally wide receivers running wide open that Jones pump faked to throw short...

How do you want a play caller to be more imaginative when the QB cant make a simple read?

Maybe i am just stupid but if Daboll calls a play and 2 guys are wide open and Jones misses them to throw short dump off, how is that on Daboll?



Then ask yourself this, based on what you just wrote.

Why would any coach keep playing the QB who can't find these receivers running free?

Seems to me the missing link is the QB - so go to the backup and let him find these open guys at higher rate and improve your chances.

Does Daboll want to get fired?

He's coaching as if he does.


Why would anyone assume that Daboll has full autonomy with regard to choosing the starting QB? And why would anyone assume that benching DJ, rather than starting him (even against Daboll's own best judgment, if that's the case) would preserve Daboll's job?

You don't need to go very far back in history to see what happened the last time a HC & GM decided to make a QB change that required putting a Mara fave on the bench.

We can sit here and agree that DJ is not Eli, but that doesn't mean that Mara would handle it any differently. The only difference is that this time around there wouldn't be an outpouring of public support from the fanbase that Mara would be caving to. If anything, the public sentiment seems to overwhelmingly want DJ benched.

We'll see what happens, but I just don't honestly believe that Daboll actually has the freedom to make a change at QB without a larger conversation with executive mgmt, including John Mara (IMO).

💯
Tight windows?  
Gatorade Dunk : 9/10/2024 5:45 pm : link
With the 4th highest separation rate in the NFL this past weekend?

How wide do the windows need to be? 5yds in every direction?
RE: I Believe John Mara's 1/26/2022 Quote Is  
GiantTuff1 : 9/10/2024 5:46 pm : link
In comment 16604687 Trainmaster said:
Quote:
to Schoen and Daboll:



Quote:


“We’ve done everything possible to screw this kid up since he’s been here,”



Whether formal, informal or implied.

"Doing what the boss wants" rarely gets you fired. My guess is Jones will get another one to three games, then Daboll will be free to move on from Jones, with a "Sorry guys, I guess I was wrong and your guys were right." acknowledgment from Mara.

However, if the Giants finish 4-13 or worse, I think the empty seats and the drone flights with "12 Years Of Lousy Football ..." will force Mara's hand to tell / allow Schoen to fire Daboll.
NYPost: John Mara vows to help Daniel Jones after Giants ‘screwed this kid up’ - ( New Window )

I think that was the agreement. "You do it my way for X games" and if it doesn't go right he will reluctantly allow Daboll and Schoen to go in another direction.
One of the big stories  
mittenedman : 9/10/2024 5:55 pm : link
was Daboll getting bent over a barrel by Flores.

The Giants were expecting blitzkreig and Flores just sat back in a cover 2 and took away the deep ball he knew we’d be looking for.

Daboll never adjusted.
RE: IMO  
Section331 : 9/10/2024 6:14 pm : link
In comment 16604862 aGiantGuy said:
Quote:
The only viable explanation for the moves we all witnessed this off-season is that we're witnessing a tank job that management is attempting to keep under wraps.

Replacing their most popular player, Saquon Barkley, with Nabers, lipstick on a pig. The moment the league-wide astronomical cap increase became public, the strategy concerning Saquon Barkley should have been re-evaluated and shifted to reflect the new market. They refused to adjust to the new figure and therefore, other teams sat still and simply picked our pockets.

Now, we've forced Jones to be a gunslinger in a one-dimensional offense, asking him to thread the needle in tight windows... and layer touch passes vs the tampa 2. Something he's never shown the capacity to do. But somehow, this is a coaching issue? No, it's a personnel issue. 100%.

We think we're doing ourselves a favor by letting players walk but we aren't acknowledging the opportunity cost associated with needing to draft or pay for their replacements. I can understand letting veteran players walk as they turn 30 but we're letting players walk as they're hitting their athletic peak. 26, 27, and 28 year old's. And instead of increasing our investment & research on player development, pre-hab, and training methods to increase their prime years. We're letting studs walk to teams that already have that in place.

Example, AJ Brown was "injury-prone" his whole Tennessee career, goes to the Eagles and misses 1 game in 2 years, it's insane. Make matters worse, the player they spent a 1st rd pick on to replace him, Treylon Burks, can barely make the team, let alone replace production. It consistently happens with the same teams.

Was low-balling Saquon really a necessary bargain if we have to spend a 2nd rd pick on his replacement next year because we were unable to run teams out of cover 2? I mean RB's already get paid less than every other position, we have to double down by not even paying them on a discount? The biggest difference between Saquon and Nabers, is one of them has to rely on Jones to be productive!

For whatever blowback we experience as fans, I personally feel that Schoen should be the first one to be accountable. I mean, he is the leader on all things personnel.


What a load of garbage. Asking Jones to “thread the needle into tight windows”? How about completing a simple swing pass that any 7th grade QB can do? GTFOOH with this shit. We all watched the game, you’re the only one who walked away thinking it was Jones who got a raw deal.

I guess there is still one member left in the DJFC.
RE: But seriously....  
GiantGrit : 9/10/2024 6:36 pm : link
In comment 16604831 FStubbs said:
Quote:
As Yogi Berra said, it's getting late awful early for this regime.


Yeah I keep using the same phrase, very warranted.
RE: The joke in my mind was Dab's QB interviews on Hard Knocks  
56goat : 9/10/2024 7:11 pm : link
In comment 16604600 GiantBlue said:
Quote:
He comes off being a master tactician who demands the most mental as well as physical from his quarterbacks.....

and then walks into the QB room where Danny sits.

Is it like the Dad who has three kids...two cerebral and one suited for Vo Tech?

I am astounded he is okay with what he is getting from DJ.


I bet DJ could have diagramed those play perfectly, he just can't execute any of them.
How many coaches and GM's will Jones get fired?  
Fishmanjim57 : 9/10/2024 8:05 pm : link
Jones has been a disaster during his tenure with the Giants. The co-owner is in love with Jones (he sees him as the second version of Eli, but the fans simply see Jones as the second version of Dave Brown).
Both Schoen and Daboll are on the hot seat, especially after everyone saw how badly Schoen botched Saquon Barkley's contract situation.
RE: Why should Schoen get the chance to fire anyone?  
Wiggy : 9/10/2024 9:48 pm : link
In comment 16604726 NYDCBlue said:
Quote:
What has this guy done right since he got here? He doesn't draft well. He makes world class terrible trade after terrible trade, after terrible trade. And his record in free agency is below average.

The first person in the front office who needs to be shown the front door first is Schoen if it comes to that after this season.
amen
RE: One of the big stories  
Jersey Heel : 9/10/2024 10:27 pm : link
In comment 16604922 mittenedman said:
Quote:
was Daboll getting bent over a barrel by Flores.

The Giants were expecting blitzkreig and Flores just sat back in a cover 2 and took away the deep ball he knew we’d be looking for.

Daboll never adjusted.

He has to watch the tape.
There is no point in arguing who sucks more  
kelly : 9/11/2024 12:36 am : link
Daboll, Schoen, Jones Mara

They all suck. And three can be shown the door and no one is going to regret it
RE: RE: IMO  
aGiantGuy : 9/11/2024 1:00 am : link
In comment 16604933 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 16604862 aGiantGuy said:


Quote:


The only viable explanation for the moves we all witnessed this off-season is that we're witnessing a tank job that management is attempting to keep under wraps.

Replacing their most popular player, Saquon Barkley, with Nabers, lipstick on a pig. The moment the league-wide astronomical cap increase became public, the strategy concerning Saquon Barkley should have been re-evaluated and shifted to reflect the new market. They refused to adjust to the new figure and therefore, other teams sat still and simply picked our pockets.

Now, we've forced Jones to be a gunslinger in a one-dimensional offense, asking him to thread the needle in tight windows... and layer touch passes vs the tampa 2. Something he's never shown the capacity to do. But somehow, this is a coaching issue? No, it's a personnel issue. 100%.

We think we're doing ourselves a favor by letting players walk but we aren't acknowledging the opportunity cost associated with needing to draft or pay for their replacements. I can understand letting veteran players walk as they turn 30 but we're letting players walk as they're hitting their athletic peak. 26, 27, and 28 year old's. And instead of increasing our investment & research on player development, pre-hab, and training methods to increase their prime years. We're letting studs walk to teams that already have that in place.

Example, AJ Brown was "injury-prone" his whole Tennessee career, goes to the Eagles and misses 1 game in 2 years, it's insane. Make matters worse, the player they spent a 1st rd pick on to replace him, Treylon Burks, can barely make the team, let alone replace production. It consistently happens with the same teams.

Was low-balling Saquon really a necessary bargain if we have to spend a 2nd rd pick on his replacement next year because we were unable to run teams out of cover 2? I mean RB's already get paid less than every other position, we have to double down by not even paying them on a discount? The biggest difference between Saquon and Nabers, is one of them has to rely on Jones to be productive!

For whatever blowback we experience as fans, I personally feel that Schoen should be the first one to be accountable. I mean, he is the leader on all things personnel.



What a load of garbage. Asking Jones to “thread the needle into tight windows”? How about completing a simple swing pass that any 7th grade QB can do? GTFOOH with this shit. We all watched the game, you’re the only one who walked away thinking it was Jones who got a raw deal.

I guess there is still one member left in the DJFC.


Dude, relax. Schoen decided to pay the man, not me. DJ's failures as a player is breadcrumbs. Look at the entire personnel decision tree over the past 3 years. The dysfunction is deep-rooted, and honestly, no one has to look that hard.
RE: IMO  
Gruber : 9/11/2024 8:49 am : link
In comment 16604862 aGiantGuy said:
Quote:
The only viable explanation for the moves we all witnessed this off-season is that we're witnessing a tank job that management is attempting to keep under wraps.

Replacing their most popular player, Saquon Barkley, with Nabers, lipstick on a pig. The moment the league-wide astronomical cap increase became public, the strategy concerning Saquon Barkley should have been re-evaluated and shifted to reflect the new market. They refused to adjust to the new figure and therefore, other teams sat still and simply picked our pockets.

Now, we've forced Jones to be a gunslinger in a one-dimensional offense, asking him to thread the needle in tight windows... and layer touch passes vs the tampa 2. Something he's never shown the capacity to do. But somehow, this is a coaching issue? No, it's a personnel issue. 100%.

We think we're doing ourselves a favor by letting players walk but we aren't acknowledging the opportunity cost associated with needing to draft or pay for their replacements. I can understand letting veteran players walk as they turn 30 but we're letting players walk as they're hitting their athletic peak. 26, 27, and 28 year old's. And instead of increasing our investment & research on player development, pre-hab, and training methods to increase their prime years. We're letting studs walk to teams that already have that in place.

Example, AJ Brown was "injury-prone" his whole Tennessee career, goes to the Eagles and misses 1 game in 2 years, it's insane. Make matters worse, the player they spent a 1st rd pick on to replace him, Treylon Burks, can barely make the team, let alone replace production. It consistently happens with the same teams.

Was low-balling Saquon really a necessary bargain if we have to spend a 2nd rd pick on his replacement next year because we were unable to run teams out of cover 2? I mean RB's already get paid less than every other position, we have to double down by not even paying them on a discount? The biggest difference between Saquon and Nabers, is one of them has to rely on Jones to be productive!

For whatever blowback we experience as fans, I personally feel that Schoen should be the first one to be accountable. I mean, he is the leader on all things personnel.


The time for a tank job was last season. Lose to the Pats, maybe one other game too, and we would have been in the driving seat to draft a QB other than Williams.
Instead, we had to ge begging to the Pats who, understandably said "no dice."
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