Incase you missed it a resident asshat wrote this in the "Will Schoen and Daboll be fired" thread.
Schoen is safe,
dd in Mass : 11:16 am : link : reply
Daboll could be fired depending on how it plays out.
Schoen was given the "edict" from Mara that DJ needed a team around him. Schoen wasn't able to bring in his own QB. I think that ownership will give him that opportunity.
Daboll's situation is different. If the team stays focused and rallys around him and they squeak out 6-7 wins he probably will stay. If the wheels fall off and it becomes a dysfunctional mess he's gotta go. |
From watching Hard Knocks and reading between the tea leaves most agree it is clear Schoen and Daboll are done with Jones. If there was an edict it all lines up regarding a potential power struggle and boiled over frustration:
* See inconsistency with 5th year option decline and handsome contract
* See thrown tablet
* See Schoen criticizing the money given to Jones in referring to him as the "$40M quarterback" many times instead of his name. If you willingly gave a QB that money why would you refer to him in a derogatory manner?
Daboll wouldn't even refer to Jones after yesterday's debacle. This duo's handling of communications on Jones is telling. They are communicating like hostages victims. This behavior lines up better if it was NOT their call. If Daniel Jones was Tommy Maddox yesterday his ass would be on the bench. So why wasn't he?
If this edict stuff is true, I say F off to Mara and FREE Schoen and Daboll. That would mean Schoen and Daboll are not likely the hardheaded idiots they are being made out to be on the QB position which provides some hope. Also if true, shame on Mara for forcing this embarrassment on two people that could ruin their future career. It would be convenient for Mara to have you think it was all Schoen and Daboll should his prodigal son DJ fail (which he is). Remember, Mara's one actually skill is figuring out how to set up fall guys. He's very good at this and bad at everything else. Simply see the line of ex coaches and GM's around here and the history of who they may have been forced to work with (Eli, Jones).
I think we need to start to target Mara with messaging to allow these guys to throw Jones in the trash can. Fly a plane over the stadium. Whatever it takes to get his attention. The Giants 2025 cap is at risk for crying out loud for a player who is not the future.
A lot has been made of the fans and players' spirits dying during yesterday's opener sensing no hope to win with DJ at the helm. Well, if there was an edict to make it work with Jones then imagine what Daboll and Schoen are feeling? It is impossible to operate successfully in this kind of environment, it is toxic, and worst yet that would mean that these guys have not been given an honest shot to succeed here (and neither have the players). If so, the blood is on Mara's hands. Plain and simple. And he should know about it.
If the fireable offense is signing Jones, then why not punish the guy who signed him?
You can’t make a race car out of a broken 10-speed bike.
OPTION 2: It is in fact from Mara. This might be worse since at least with Option 1 that is solvable with a new coach. In this option we're f'd.
Either way, its not good.
We have gone through multiple coaches tasked with "fixing" incumbent QBs with both Eli and now Jones. History says it is not the coach.
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OPTION 1: Its not an edict and Daboll is choosing to stick with DJ (and not to bench him as he should in Week 1). This then becomes an indictment against Daboll for not properly assessing DJ last year, during training camp and Week 1 when we all saw what we saw. Daboll would have to go.
OPTION 2: It is in fact from Mara. This might be worse since at least with Option 1 that is solvable with a new coach. In this option we're f'd.
Either way, its not good.
Common sense says option 1 is not correct. Say what you will about Daboll, but he has been in the league a long time, and knows what he sees in a QB. He designed a scheme in 2022 to micromanage Jones’s liabilities, not a sign of confidence in his QB. He flipped out when Jones threw that pick 6 v Seattle despite the play call going precisely as planned.
I’m sorry, but anyone who thinks that 90% of BBI can see what Jones is but an offensive coach with a decade in the league can’t is delusional. Come on, he knows, he just doesn’t have the authority to make the change.
+1
That's one possibility. Or If they are not given a fair shake and shot to get a QB then I agree and Daboll should too. I'm sure there are NDA's in place but that would be their leverage.
If this team wins 5 games Daboll is 100% gone. Schoen isn't completely safe either
Battle of the asshats.
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And if both are responsible - why is the GM safer?
x infinity
If this season is another collapse, either keep both, and let them actually draft THEIR QB, or fire them both.
But you can't give Schoen the benefit of the doubt in that situation. NFW.
And just because he apparently tried to trade up for Maye, that shouldn't give him any protection, either...
Agreed.
If this team wins 5 games Daboll is 100% gone. Schoen isn't completely safe either
So you are telling us that Mara would have been OK to let Jones go after 2022 if Schoen and Daboll wanted?
Maybe true, but this act alone would gain him entry into the BBI Ring of Honor for sure.
I overlooked that aspect. How do we get word to him? lol
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if he did that publicly. No owner would hire a guy who spills internal beans, especially their beans.
Maybe true, but this act alone would gain him entry into the BBI Ring of Honor for sure.
We do know how much value Schoen places on a Ring of Honor, so that might be worth it to him.
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I assumed for the longest time that Mara pushed them to sign Jones but I got told 100% that Jones contract is on Schoen and Daboll. They signed him, realised it was a huge mistake and tried to pivot quick but t didnt work out. Fireable offense imo
If this team wins 5 games Daboll is 100% gone. Schoen isn't completely safe either
So you are telling us that Mara would have been OK to let Jones go after 2022 if Schoen and Daboll wanted?
All I'm telling u is that Mara did not throw an edict down to sign Jones. Schoen made the call. I shouldn't lump Daboll into the signing. But I assume Danoll was on board because he is the head coach
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In comment 16604810 Woodstock said:
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I assumed for the longest time that Mara pushed them to sign Jones but I got told 100% that Jones contract is on Schoen and Daboll. They signed him, realised it was a huge mistake and tried to pivot quick but t didnt work out. Fireable offense imo
If this team wins 5 games Daboll is 100% gone. Schoen isn't completely safe either
So you are telling us that Mara would have been OK to let Jones go after 2022 if Schoen and Daboll wanted?
All I'm telling u is that Mara did not throw an edict down to sign Jones. Schoen made the call. I shouldn't lump Daboll into the signing. But I assume Danoll was on board because he is the head coach
Thanks. Maybe "edict" is a strong word. As far as you know, was there any level of persuasion from Mara or was he completely hands off?
Buyer's Remorse
They thought with Nabers and an improved offensive line they could compete. Confidence in the team this year from the organization was high before that nightmare on Sunday. I have not heard anything since but I'm sure it's not pretty.
Even if Mara didn't directly tell Schoen to resign Jones and Barkley, Schoen and Daboll may have therefore felt a lot of implicit pressure to do so. The nature of the Jones contract, with the $22M "out" after this year, always suggested to me that Schoen wasn't completely sold on Jones. But he only had one FT, and using it on Jones would have cost $32.5M against the cap. The FT for Barkley as a RB was only about $10M IIRC. Signing Jones allowed for a lower annual cap hit that saved money Schoen needed to sign FAs. That was especially important since he had almost no money to spend in FA the previous year.
Mara is a meddler. And these were the two most important players on the team in his opinion. Players who just helped the Giants win a road playoff game.
Its not getting talked about enough here the idiocy of Schoen being pretty public about wanting a new QB and then sticking with Jones AND offering little competition. Not only is that unprofessional - he doesn’t realize it makes him look, quite frankly, moronic for showing no confidence in Jones and starting him. Was the expectation his confidence wouldn’t be shot?
Mara’s turned into the scapegoat around here. What have Schoen’s drafts yielded? He had two top 10 picks and whiffed on both. That alone is a backbreaker. Didn’t trade Saquon, gave Jones the 4 year deal….
Daboll still has a playoff win to his credit. He’s shown more than Schoen. If you fire Daboll there’s no reason to keep Schoen. You let Vrabel pick a GM.
Apparently LT told Banks-& I'm paraphrasing-that they could get 22 guys from the '80s teams & beat the '24 Giants. NEW YORK GIANTS FOOTBALL BABY! FEEL THE EXCITEMENT!
1. The Giants survive this season (5+ wins). Schoen and Daboll should get a chance to solve the QB position.
2. The wheels come off: the Giants should give Vrabel or Belichick the keys to the kingdom and say goodbye to both Schoen and Daboll.
I see no reason to keep one and get rid of the other.
Even if Mara didn't directly tell Schoen to resign Jones and Barkley, Schoen and Daboll may have therefore felt a lot of implicit pressure to do so. The nature of the Jones contract, with the $22M "out" after this year, always suggested to me that Schoen wasn't completely sold on Jones. But he only had one FT, and using it on Jones would have cost $32.5M against the cap. The FT for Barkley as a RB was only about $10M IIRC. Signing Jones allowed for a lower annual cap hit that saved money Schoen needed to sign FAs. That was especially important since he had almost no money to spend in FA the previous year.
Mara is a meddler. And these were the two most important players on the team in his opinion. Players who just helped the Giants win a road playoff game.
Can anyone really imagine Joe Schoen walking into John Mara’s office in early 2023 and telling him, “we’re going to let Daniel walk”? Mara would have gone ballistic. Again, there was absolutely no chance they weren’t resigning Jones after 2022, any one saying otherwise is an idiot or lying.
I wonder if people in the building are planting the “this was Schoen/Daboll’s idea” when EVERYONE in the building was on the same page.
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was gushing about Jones ("we've got our QB") after the Minnesota playoff win. He also earlier said about Jones that "we've done everything to screw him up." Mara also loved Barkley, who was also instrumental in the playoff win.
Even if Mara didn't directly tell Schoen to resign Jones and Barkley, Schoen and Daboll may have therefore felt a lot of implicit pressure to do so. The nature of the Jones contract, with the $22M "out" after this year, always suggested to me that Schoen wasn't completely sold on Jones. But he only had one FT, and using it on Jones would have cost $32.5M against the cap. The FT for Barkley as a RB was only about $10M IIRC. Signing Jones allowed for a lower annual cap hit that saved money Schoen needed to sign FAs. That was especially important since he had almost no money to spend in FA the previous year.
Mara is a meddler. And these were the two most important players on the team in his opinion. Players who just helped the Giants win a road playoff game.
Can anyone really imagine Joe Schoen walking into John Mara’s office in early 2023 and telling him, “we’re going to let Daniel walk”? Mara would have gone ballistic. Again, there was absolutely no chance they weren’t resigning Jones after 2022, any one saying otherwise is an idiot or lying.
I wonder if people in the building are planting the “this was Schoen/Daboll’s idea” when EVERYONE in the building was on the same page.
The failure on Jones may have given Schoen the confidence to ignore Mara on Barkley.
Its not getting talked about enough here the idiocy of Schoen being pretty public about wanting a new QB and then sticking with Jones AND offering little competition. Not only is that unprofessional - he doesn’t realize it makes him look, quite frankly, moronic for showing no confidence in Jones and starting him. Was the expectation his confidence wouldn’t be shot?
Mara’s turned into the scapegoat around here. What have Schoen’s drafts yielded? He had two top 10 picks and whiffed on both. That alone is a backbreaker. Didn’t trade Saquon, gave Jones the 4 year deal….
Daboll still has a playoff win to his credit. He’s shown more than Schoen. If you fire Daboll there’s no reason to keep Schoen. You let Vrabel pick a GM.
This makes sense. Can't scapegoat Daboll and keep Schoen. Honestly, if both of them were pounding the table for DJ, then they should both go. And I like the idea of getting Vrabel and letting him pick his GM. Seems like a very sensible way to buy the groceries...
Even removing Jones from the conversation they have been awful.
Its not getting talked about enough here the idiocy of Schoen being pretty public about wanting a new QB and then sticking with Jones AND offering little competition. Not only is that unprofessional - he doesn’t realize it makes him look, quite frankly, moronic for showing no confidence in Jones and starting him. Was the expectation his confidence wouldn’t be shot?
Mara’s turned into the scapegoat around here. What have Schoen’s drafts yielded? He had two top 10 picks and whiffed on both. That alone is a backbreaker. Didn’t trade Saquon, gave Jones the 4 year deal….
Daboll still has a playoff win to his credit. He’s shown more than Schoen. If you fire Daboll there’s no reason to keep Schoen. You let Vrabel pick a GM.
The bolded 100%. When I was told a few things I was so confused as to the plan. I was gonna post it but I couldn't find a way to articulate it.
U sign Daniel Jones U sign a Lock as a backup and make sure to tell the media there's no QB competition. Then U try to trade up to find his replacement because u really aren't all that confident in Daniel.That falls through and now everything has gone to shit because there's no viable alternatives to Jones.
Hmmmmm...
Its not getting talked about enough here the idiocy of Schoen being pretty public about wanting a new QB and then sticking with Jones AND offering little competition. Not only is that unprofessional - he doesn’t realize it makes him look, quite frankly, moronic for showing no confidence in Jones and starting him. Was the expectation his confidence wouldn’t be shot?
Mara’s turned into the scapegoat around here. What have Schoen’s drafts yielded? He had two top 10 picks and whiffed on both. That alone is a backbreaker. Didn’t trade Saquon, gave Jones the 4 year deal….
Daboll still has a playoff win to his credit. He’s shown more than Schoen. If you fire Daboll there’s no reason to keep Schoen. You let Vrabel pick a GM.
If your source is pro Mara then your response is expected. If there was an edict or strong persuasion of any kind from his boss than that would explain Schoen’s “idiocy” you speak of because it defies logic of any kind.
I tend to believe that Schoen (and Daboll) are generally bright people who have worked hard to get to their spot and to think they are this stupid is a bridge too far for me especially in the face of history showing multiple coaches and GMs were forced to work with QBs Mara was infatuated with and that goes back to Reese, Ross and McAdoo clearly wanting to get rid of Eli. What happens when they tried? They were fired. What happened after they were fired? Manning was reinserted as starter the following week and the following year a new coach and GM kept and (were likely forced) keep Eli in as starter. Follow the bread crumbs.
Basically, how do you know you aren’t being played by your source or your source isn’t being played by others? Because Maras history so far supercedes Schoen’s supposed idiocy.
+1
Is DD in Mass in the house to bring some more of his info to the table?
I tend to believe that Schoen (and Daboll) are generally bright people who have worked hard to get to their spot and to think they are this stupid is a bridge too far for me especially in the face of history showing multiple coaches and GMs were forced to work with QBs Mara was infatuated with and that goes back to Reese, Ross and McAdoo clearly wanting to get rid of Eli. What happens when they tried? They were fired. What happened after they were fired? Manning was reinserted as starter the following week and the following year a new coach and GM kept and (were likely forced) keep Eli in as starter. Follow the bread crumbs.
Basically, how do you know you aren’t being played by your source or your source isn’t being played by others? Because Maras history so far supercedes Schoen’s supposed idiocy.
Good post. If Mara can take notice of a clown picture on this web site, what's to say there isn't someone making him aware of the fact that a growing number of fans who blame him and not the GM/Coach for the recent failures?
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Have heard the same things on the Jones extension and Drake Maye. The latter is honestly indisputable at this point but I have prodded and have always been told it was Schoen & Daboll’s decision to sign Jones.
Its not getting talked about enough here the idiocy of Schoen being pretty public about wanting a new QB and then sticking with Jones AND offering little competition. Not only is that unprofessional - he doesn’t realize it makes him look, quite frankly, moronic for showing no confidence in Jones and starting him. Was the expectation his confidence wouldn’t be shot?
Mara’s turned into the scapegoat around here. What have Schoen’s drafts yielded? He had two top 10 picks and whiffed on both. That alone is a backbreaker. Didn’t trade Saquon, gave Jones the 4 year deal….
Daboll still has a playoff win to his credit. He’s shown more than Schoen. If you fire Daboll there’s no reason to keep Schoen. You let Vrabel pick a GM.
If your source is pro Mara then your response is expected. If there was an edict or strong persuasion of any kind from his boss than that would explain Schoen’s “idiocy” you speak of because it defies logic of any kind.
I tend to believe that Schoen (and Daboll) are generally bright people who have worked hard to get to their spot and to think they are this stupid is a bridge too far for me especially in the face of history showing multiple coaches and GMs were forced to work with QBs Mara was infatuated with and that goes back to Reese, Ross and McAdoo clearly wanting to get rid of Eli. What happens when they tried? They were fired. What happened after they were fired? Manning was reinserted as starter the following week and the following year a new coach and GM kept and (were likely forced) keep Eli in as starter. Follow the bread crumbs.
Basically, how do you know you aren’t being played by your source or your source isn’t being played by others? Because Maras history so far supercedes Schoen’s supposed idiocy.
This isn't James Bond levels of deep. My guy works for the Giants. It's not pro Mara or or pro Schoen. He's just telling me the truth of what happened.
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In comment 16604955 GiantGrit said:
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Have heard the same things on the Jones extension and Drake Maye. The latter is honestly indisputable at this point but I have prodded and have always been told it was Schoen & Daboll’s decision to sign Jones.
Its not getting talked about enough here the idiocy of Schoen being pretty public about wanting a new QB and then sticking with Jones AND offering little competition. Not only is that unprofessional - he doesn’t realize it makes him look, quite frankly, moronic for showing no confidence in Jones and starting him. Was the expectation his confidence wouldn’t be shot?
Mara’s turned into the scapegoat around here. What have Schoen’s drafts yielded? He had two top 10 picks and whiffed on both. That alone is a backbreaker. Didn’t trade Saquon, gave Jones the 4 year deal….
Daboll still has a playoff win to his credit. He’s shown more than Schoen. If you fire Daboll there’s no reason to keep Schoen. You let Vrabel pick a GM.
If your source is pro Mara then your response is expected. If there was an edict or strong persuasion of any kind from his boss than that would explain Schoen’s “idiocy” you speak of because it defies logic of any kind.
I tend to believe that Schoen (and Daboll) are generally bright people who have worked hard to get to their spot and to think they are this stupid is a bridge too far for me especially in the face of history showing multiple coaches and GMs were forced to work with QBs Mara was infatuated with and that goes back to Reese, Ross and McAdoo clearly wanting to get rid of Eli. What happens when they tried? They were fired. What happened after they were fired? Manning was reinserted as starter the following week and the following year a new coach and GM kept and (were likely forced) keep Eli in as starter. Follow the bread crumbs.
Basically, how do you know you aren’t being played by your source or your source isn’t being played by others? Because Maras history so far supercedes Schoen’s supposed idiocy.
This isn't James Bond levels of deep. My guy works for the Giants. It's not pro Mara or or pro Schoen. He's just telling me the truth of what happened.
I appreciate the response and your shared info. As you know, we fans want answers too and sometime need to poke to unveil kernels of truth to piece together a picture.
I tend to think multiple regimes, including coaches and GM's have come and gone, but the same sour operational tendencies remain. Ownership is the one consistent factor. So either Mara is:
1.) mandating things be a certain way (e.g. "make it work" with Eli or Jones)
2.) have extreme confirmation bias and hire people who think the same as they do (or are too weak to go against the grain)
3.) have a penchant for hiring complete idiots
All of these are bad, and is the vicious cycle the Giants are stuck in currently. Three is almost unbelievable to me seeing that both guys seems bright, but if that is what is really going on then they need to be fired and Mara shouldn't be allowed anywhere near making the next decision about who comes in to right the Giants ship. The guy has the opposite of the Midas Touch and turns everything to shit.
This isn't James Bond levels of deep. My guy works for the Giants. It's not pro Mara or or pro Schoen. He's just telling me the truth of what happened.
He's telling you his perception of the truth. Honestly, John Mara came out after the playoff win and started his whole "We're back!" nonsense and annointing DJ as their QB. You can absolutely make the argument that Schoen failed to manage up, but I don't know how you stop a moron from opening his mouth. How do you not make your boss look like an idiot when you refuse to resign a player who was successful the year prior after years of futility?
Mara may not have placed a formal edict to resign Jones, but he did everything in his considerable power as owner to paint Schoen into a corner after that season. 2022 was fun at the time, but much like the games we won last season, probably screwed this team up in the long run by giving a lot of people inside and outside Giants HQ false hope that DJ could be a competent, if not actually good, QB.
This. No disrespect to the asshats, thanks for sharing anything you hear, but we all should keep in mind how the Mara’s operate when things start to go south. They are quick to throw any of the “outsiders” under the bus to save their own asses.
It happened with McAdoo, it happened with Shurmur, it happened with Judge, so why wouldn’t it happen with Schoen and Daboll? Asshats could be fed intel their sources WANT them to hear.
THAT is the true “Giants Way”.
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So the fact that there is a conflict between them now over who is to blame over Jones tells me that there may be an active damage control thing going on now.
This. No disrespect to the asshats, thanks for sharing anything you hear, but we all should keep in mind how the Mara’s operate when things start to go south. They are quick to throw any of the “outsiders” under the bus to save their own asses.
It happened with McAdoo, it happened with Shurmur, it happened with Judge, so why wouldn’t it happen with Schoen and Daboll? Asshats could be fed intel their sources WANT them to hear.
THAT is the true “Giants Way”.
This 💯. Well said.
People get excited when an asshat talks, and we always appreciate info. But consider that info may have a purpose by those who fed it to the asshat and that purpose in this case may be to turn the PR machine against certain people (e.g. Schoen and Daboll) and to deflect the blame from ownership by pointing to what an "idiot" Schoen is. If some version of the "edict" is true, and ownership wanted to set up Schoen and Daboll as fall guys, this is textbook how you perform character destruction and build public opinion against someone. Gee, have we seen these kind of actions before from Jints Central?
History encourages me to remain highly skeptical of the Maras. John needs to be told that there is blood on his hands and we are not idiots.
They aren't hearing it from Hanlon or someone, who is obviously always trying to manipulate perception. They are just talking to a worker somewhere there with no agenda. I don't think there is some big strategy session going on inside of 1925 deciding who to blame for Jones right now on BBI, I think they have bigger concerns.
Critical thinking is always warranted, but when Drake Maye was not only mentioned privately but also publicly, you’re overthinking it if you think they weren’t all in on him. Occams razor on that one.
They aren't hearing it from Hanlon or someone, who is obviously always trying to manipulate perception. They are just talking to a worker somewhere there with no agenda. I don't think there is some big strategy session going on inside of 1925 deciding who to blame for Jones right now on BBI, I think they have bigger concerns.
As said above, we always appreciate asshat info and I will continue to take everything that has been said by the asshats in this thread seriously.
That being said, one of the asshats you mentioned (who has been spot on multiple times in the past) had several bogus draft claims this year. That info clearly shielded their true intentions around the QB and WR they were actually interested in. That tells me that at least some people at Giants HQ know that they can use that channel to influence fan thinking. From the clown picture to this years whacky asshat season, BBI is probably heard more than we think.
Critical thinking is always warranted, but when Drake Maye was not only mentioned privately but also publicly, you’re overthinking it if you think they weren’t all in on him. Occams razor on that one.
Thanks for that. I never thought that this was something that all came out since Sunday, and I think how Jones played last year had to shake a lot of people inside 1925 pretty hard. That is likely when the knives started coming out.
Fair enough. But when was it received relative to Hard Knocks showing Schoen's complete lack of faith in Jones? I think everyone in that building knew they were in trouble this year when they didn't get a replacement for Jones.
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You guys are making is assuming the info Woodstock and I received is recent, as in after the struggles started. Its not.
Fair enough. But when was it received relative to Hard Knocks showing Schoen's complete lack of faith in Jones? I think everyone in that building knew they were in trouble this year when they didn't get a replacement for Jones.
That right there is a reason to fire Schoen. If they knew Jones wasn't ready, or was shot, and he went into the season with Drew Lock as his backup? That to me is much more a fireable offense than resigning Jones.
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You guys are making is assuming the info Woodstock and I received is recent, as in after the struggles started. Its not.
Fair enough. But when was it received relative to Hard Knocks showing Schoen's complete lack of faith in Jones? I think everyone in that building knew they were in trouble this year when they didn't get a replacement for Jones.
2023.
Even if Mara didn't directly tell Schoen to resign Jones and Barkley, Schoen and Daboll may have therefore felt a lot of implicit pressure to do so. The nature of the Jones contract, with the $22M "out" after this year, always suggested to me that Schoen wasn't completely sold on Jones. But he only had one FT, and using it on Jones would have cost $32.5M against the cap. The FT for Barkley as a RB was only about $10M IIRC. Signing Jones allowed for a lower annual cap hit that saved money Schoen needed to sign FAs. That was especially important since he had almost no money to spend in FA the previous year.
Mara is a meddler. And these were the two most important players on the team in his opinion. Players who just helped the Giants win a road playoff game.
Those quotes from Mara were manager-ese for "sign Jones"
So who’s decision was it to have HBO‘s cameras record the Giants’ off-season behind closed doors? Schoen’s? Of course it wasn’t. Give me a break. So I guess Schoen shouldn’t have gone after a quarterback because it would be picked up by the cameras? What actually are you saying?