Thibodeaux - Useful player that will get wins against bad tackles. Disappears often and can be completely taken out of games but good tackles. Does not look like he will ever be the dominant Edge Rusher that is expected with a Top 5 pick.
Neal - A complete BUST. He might revive his career as a Guard somewhere else, but does not have the feet to play Tackle.
Robinson - Good slot receiver that will be a weapon on 3rd downs. Will never be an outside receiver.
Ezeudu - A development Guard that has not developed. The coaching staff moving him around has not help.
Flott - I’m going to call him a BUST. Has had a ton of chances at the nickel and CB2 and has failed each time.
Bellinger - Has not looked the same since an Eye injury his rookie season. Looks much slower and is not a good in line blocker. A backup TE at the moment.
Belton - A rotational safety that has a knack for making plays on the ball. Has coverage limitations but is a useful player.
McFadden - Solid linebacker with that sometimes misses tackle. Probably the best pick so far. (Debatable with Robinson)
DJ Davidson - Rotational Defensive Tackle who seems to be getting better every week. Solid.
McKeathan - Injured as a rookie and looked terrible when he played. Released after year 3
Beavers - Injured as a rookie and has not been released twice.
Schoen had 5 top 81 picks, including 2 top 10 picks and did not draft 1 Pro Bowl caliber player. That’s a very disappointing draft. He did draft a few solid but unspectacular players on the back half of the draft.
Overall the draft gets 4 out of a possible 10. Schoen had 11 chances at impact franchise players and did not come out with 1.
??? so he’s not a useful player? He makes some plays but isn’t the dominant rusher you expect a top 5 pick to be.
bad coaching and player development has been the equally big problem and maybe even bigger. it would not surprise me at all if a few of those guys become the next will hernandez, evan engram, julian love, bj hill etc bc we cant even figure out how to stop sam freaking darnold from running a perfect 7 on 7 practice against a defense with at least 3 recent pro bowlers on it.
Robinson's size limits how you can use him. He's quick and fast, but not otherworldly so like a Tyreek Hill where the size doesn't matter. He's quick enough to get open in the short game which is useful, but second round is too early for a player like that on a team like ours which has more pressing needs all over.
Flott is just never going to weigh enough to be a full time player. And his primary skill to overcome that liability, coverage, has not been nearly good enough to justify playing him more.
bad coaching and player development has been the equally big problem and maybe even bigger. it would not surprise me at all if a few of those guys become the next will hernandez, evan engram, julian love, bj hill etc bc we cant even figure out how to stop sam freaking darnold from running a perfect 7 on 7 practice against a defense with at least 3 recent pro bowlers on it.
Player development has been a huge issue with the Giants going back 10+ seasons, I definitely agree. But it’s now 4-5 different coaching staffs going back to Coughlin. The Giants need to hire an external consultant to find out what exactly is going on. Are we picking bad players (scouting) or does it go further?
My biggest gripe with this class was that Schoen was set up to build a foundation for his regime with 5 top 81 picks and he failed miserably. None of the players selected are franchise cornerstones like Lawrence and Thomas are.
He’s part of this regime so he won’t get a chance here. He will be a good GM for some other team. He still needs seasoning. He would do well in a smaller market where there isn’t as much media.
Robinson's size limits how you can use him. He's quick and fast, but not otherworldly so like a Tyreek Hill where the size doesn't matter. He's quick enough to get open in the short game which is useful, but second round is too early for a player like that on a team like ours which has more pressing needs all over.
Flott is just never going to weigh enough to be a full time player. And his primary skill to overcome that liability, coverage, has not been nearly good enough to justify playing him more.
Agreed. Kakfa really wanted Robinson IIRC, and Schoen has made it clear that he regularly solicits and considers the opinions of the head coach and the coordinator when deciding who to draft. Banks is another example. Martindale clearly wanted him, so much so that Schoen traded two picks to move up to get hm.
Flott simply isn't big enough. I think Flott was a fallback when they couldn't get McCreary.
I agree with the OP that the 2022 draft is completely underwhelming, especially KT and Neal. Ezeudu can't play IMO. He got an extra year because was a third round pick, but he's failed at guard and tackle.
Schoen also drafted Bellinger when he could have drafted Jake Ferguson or Isaiah Likely.
He also traded a third for Darren Waller, an aging TE with injury issues. Waller then promptly got injured here and was gone after a year. I thought it was a great trade, but nobody is paying me to make these decisions.
Overall, I think Schoen's roster management is at best a "C." If his trade for BB fails, his grade will go down to a "D."
Like too many GMs, Schoen is too eager to trade up in the draft or to trade picks for players. Trading down is usually a better strategy, and trading picks for players should generally be limited to trading seventh round picks at the end of training camp to get a player who would likely be claimed by a team with a higher waiver wire priority.
I still believe Schoen and Daboll will get a 4th season as the Giants believe they have been in a rebuild mode the past 3 years. The '23 and '24 draft classes look a little more promising (Banks, JMS, Nabors, Nubin, etc),so let's see if they continue to mature as the year moves along.
The GM's job is to make the right pick, not the consensus pick
No one.. He was one of the top2/3 tackle in the draft and was the cleanest of the 3 and best option for RT. He hasn't worked out but normal folks and media people all agreed he should be drafted in the first 7 picks prior to the draft..
nobody - but that's obviously not a mark in their favor. if just going by consensus rankings can make the same or better picks, what value is the gm?
looking back neal was actually a bit lower on the aggregate consensus than id remembered, thibodeaux was higher at #3 than id remembered but by consensus the other pick would have been hamilton.
https://www.nflmockdraftdatabase.com/big-boards/2022/consensus-big-board-2022 - ( New Window )
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He was hardly a controversial choice. It hasn't worked out but who was against that pick?
The GM's job is to make the right pick, not the consensus pick
This. A GM gets paid millions of dollars. Their job is to make the correct pick, especially when drafting that high. Their job is not to get an A from ESPN on a draft pick. Schoen has been here 3 years, and the Giants are getting worse. He has shown nothing to give me any faith in him.
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In comment 16605543 Greg from LI said:
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He was hardly a controversial choice. It hasn't worked out but who was against that pick?
The GM's job is to make the right pick, not the consensus pick
This. A GM gets paid millions of dollars. Their job is to make the correct pick, especially when drafting that high. Their job is not to get an A from ESPN on a draft pick. Schoen has been here 3 years, and the Giants are getting worse. He has shown nothing to give me any faith in him.
This. Just because other people thought the player would be good doesn’t absolve you of the consequences of picking them.
Your evaluation skills are supposed to be better than your competitions.
Neal should be playing RG now. Eagles are starting Becton there after he busted as a T.
Easily blocked one on one be it linemen, TE or back.
Please watch him and he motors less than 50% of the time
Fact: Terrible OL coach.
Fact: Terrible RG
Fact: Terrible college prep shifting positions. (for a player with a flawed trait).
Fact: Terrible injury timing factored in with a Keystone Cops medical and training staff.
Based on physical attributes, RT is quite possibly his best projection, but one has to be able to evaluate a healthy Neal with specific coaching to compensate for a balance issue. Naturally if balance is terrible as opposed to not a strength, OG may be only salvage option.
Easily blocked one on one be it linemen, TE or back.
Please watch him and he motors less than 50% of the time
But I guess that is "useful" somehow.
No worries, he'll come alive Sunday...it's WFT week!
Isn't that exactly what he did @ picks 5 and 7, and how is that working out so far?
Draft is an art, not slavish following of Draft mags and pundits, just look at Lynch in SF. So far Schoen is showing he doesn't have hang of artistry.
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I finally watched the game and focused on #5.
Easily blocked one on one be it linemen, TE or back.
Please watch him and he motors less than 50% of the time
But I guess that is "useful" somehow.
No worries, he'll come alive Sunday...it's WFT week!
So he’s a BUST? Share your opinions and stop talking in codes.
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In comment 16605595 NJLCO said:
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I finally watched the game and focused on #5.
Easily blocked one on one be it linemen, TE or back.
Please watch him and he motors less than 50% of the time
But I guess that is "useful" somehow.
No worries, he'll come alive Sunday...it's WFT week!
So he’s a BUST? Share your opinions and stop talking in codes.
Thibs possesses a fair amount of talent. However, we tend to only see it when he faces the worst OL units in the league such as WFT and Jets last season.
Put an adequate to good OT or TE against him, and they basically shut him down. Sometimes where he get completely "shut out" on every snap...which is remarkable, an entire game.
Thibs doesn't play with a certain reckless abandon that you would want to see from an ER taken #5 overall. He plays with his own agenda in mind and this was a pre-draft concern as well a few years back.
Maybe you can crack the code what's his deal.
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In comment 16605623 ThomasG said:
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In comment 16605595 NJLCO said:
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I finally watched the game and focused on #5.
Easily blocked one on one be it linemen, TE or back.
Please watch him and he motors less than 50% of the time
But I guess that is "useful" somehow.
No worries, he'll come alive Sunday...it's WFT week!
So he’s a BUST? Share your opinions and stop talking in codes.
Thibs possesses a fair amount of talent. However, we tend to only see it when he faces the worst OL units in the league such as WFT and Jets last season.
Put an adequate to good OT or TE against him, and they basically shut him down. Sometimes where he get completely "shut out" on every snap...which is remarkable, an entire game.
Thibs doesn't play with a certain reckless abandon that you would want to see from an ER taken #5 overall. He plays with his own agenda in mind and this was a pre-draft concern as well a few years back.
Maybe you can crack the code what's his deal.
Go back and read what I said in the OP. You aren’t saying anything new.
He is definitely useful in that capacity.
He is definitely useful in that capacity.
He’s a starter. If he was unplayable like Neal, Ezeudu, and Flott then he would not be useful. He has not lived up to his potential so far, but that’s a different argument.
Until Sunday I was rooting for Schoen and I liked the way he went about his job from the little I could see. Past tense. But I can't slam him for the 2022 draft. He was hired in January and didn't have his own people place. More importantly than that, in typical Giants luck fashion, the 2022 draft was an awful class.
It's not like the Giants took a WR and passed on Aaron Donald and Zack Martin. The Giants that Joe Schoen inherited were a complete mess, especially at QB and in the trenches. I think he made the right call then passing on QB and tried to add impact players on the OL and at Edge LB. He missed on both. One is a bust, the other JAG. But who should the Giants have drafted instead that would have been an impact player?
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the weaker/weakest teams in the league then we are aligned.
He is definitely useful in that capacity.
He’s a starter. If he was unplayable like Neal, Ezeudu, and Flott then he would not be useful. He has not lived up to his potential so far, but that’s a different argument.
Ok, got it. Quite the threshold of being useful.
We’re done here.
The constant is poor coaching hires, poor ownership interference and possibly poor scouting dept. choices.
But, now, after 1 game people come out of the woodwork essentially saying the same thing/.
Not giving an opinion, just stating a fact.
Absolutely. I haven't been as down on him as some, because he's not a useless player or backup like many of our high picks turn out to be. But we all should be rooting for him to pad his sack numbers this year and use it as leverage to get some assets back for him. He should have been in play in trade up negotiations this last draft. You have to give to get and we need to get a QB above all else.