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Kayvon

NYGiantFL007 : 9/11/2024 2:50 pm
I am sorry, and will go on record having been a Kayvon fanboy, wanting him to be our next great pass rusher. But I just finished watching a film review on Brian Burns, and I will say the attention the Vikings gave him was crazy. He was constantly getting chipped and double teamed for the 20 or so snaps he was on the field for. I will say even though he had to constantly fight through protection, you can see elite traits ever time.

But you know who was not getting protection attention, who was all alone on an Island for almost his entire rep count... Kayvon. I was so saddened by the lack of physicality, explosiveness and suddenness. Why does he think he is a power rusher, is it because he realizes he does not have the bend to be an elite pash rusher? Serious question. My stomach is starting to sink in to the realization that we whiffed on both #5 and #7 plus the Kadrius Toney pick (Darren Waller as well) AND finally Micah parson. How catastrophic has this organization been to us.
Did you see KT in the locker room after the game  
FranknWeezer : 9/11/2024 2:57 pm : link
and how he interacted with Jordan and others? It was pathetic. And he’s supposed to be a leader.
Not making excuses but....  
Pete from Woodstock : 9/11/2024 3:03 pm : link
Some say that Darrisaw and O'Neill are among the best offensive tackle duos in football.
Vikings OTs ARE very good (and paid accordingly)  
g-baby : 9/11/2024 3:11 pm : link
But i am with you that KT's performance was highly disappointing.

His pass rush plan needs a lot of work. He is constantly seeking to make contact with the OT. Swipe the hands, dip the shoulder. Shit, pull a spin move. But the constant plan to engage the OT and make a second move off of that is now entirely predictable.

I still like him, he is young and getting better  
PatersonPlank : 9/11/2024 3:11 pm : link
1 game does not undo 11.5 sacks last season, with basically no on playing on the other side. Way too early to give up on this guy
Thanks for sharing this, it is a relief to hear  
Section331 : 9/11/2024 3:16 pm : link
that Burns was getting so much attention. If he got shut out 1-on-1, I’d be worried. KT needs to play with more consistency, WAY too many no-shows from him.
I was one of the most  
Bill in UT : 9/11/2024 3:21 pm : link
anti-Kayvon people leading up to the draft after having play 2 big games against Utah at the end of that season. I've been pretty quiet for a long time. I think he's going to be a good player but not a difference maker. Don't think he's going to be worth a second contract of more than $6-8M a year.
RE: Vikings OTs ARE very good (and paid accordingly)  
Dave in PA : 9/11/2024 3:21 pm : link
In comment 16605879 g-baby said:
Quote:
But i am with you that KT's performance was highly disappointing.

His pass rush plan needs a lot of work. He is constantly seeking to make contact with the OT. Swipe the hands, dip the shoulder. Shit, pull a spin move. But the constant plan to engage the OT and make a second move off of that is now entirely predictable.
so basically he's the exact same player he has been for the past 2 years with no actual skill improvement. Is it coaching or a lack of ability to change or something else? Is he too small?
Well, he does show up for primetime and natl games  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/11/2024 3:29 pm : link
…so at least there’s that
Regarding the power rush,  
Angel Eyes : 9/11/2024 3:29 pm : link
why does Kayvon keep trying to power rush from a two-point stance? Leverage is everything in a bull rush (even with lighter weight there's footage of Strahan in 2007, where he was playing at around 255lbs where he forklifts Jeremy Trueblood in the Buccaneers wild card game) and by rushing from a two-point stance, all leverage is lost.
Darrishaw is elite  
islander1 : 9/11/2024 3:38 pm : link
But like the OP, I am perplexed by Kayvon's largely one-
dimensional pass rushing repertoire.
RE: Darrishaw is elite  
Angel Eyes : 9/11/2024 3:40 pm : link
In comment 16605942 islander1 said:
Quote:
But like the OP, I am perplexed by Kayvon's largely one-
dimensional pass rushing repertoire.

Is he still a can-opener?
I would like to know  
Dave on the UWS : 9/11/2024 3:42 pm : link
what happened to the explosive first step which is what GOT HIM drafted at #5??
Haven’t seen that. He’s just a guy other than that .
He’ll have a nice couple of games against Washington.  
bceagle05 : 9/11/2024 3:47 pm : link
Probably have three sacks against Carolina. Stats will look decent by season’s end but we all know what he is and what he isn’t. If things go south I would shop him at the deadline - we’re not gonna pay Dex, Burns and Thibs big money.
SY'56  
NYGiantFL007 : 9/11/2024 3:50 pm : link
Review stands today to what we see. But I will add a more concerning trait is that he struggles with the average competent professional Tackle. For him to feast it hass been against below average tackle. Anything above average and he is getting goose egged.


3: Kayvon Thibodeaux – Oregon – 6’4/254

Grade: 83

Summary: Junior entry from South Central Los Angeles. Three-year starter that came out of school as a topflight, 5-star recruit and delivered. Earned 1st Team All-Pac 12 honors all three years, won the 2020 Morris Trophy, and landed on both the 2020 and 2021 All American squads. Thibodeaux has a long, explosive frame that can bend in and out of small creases with tremendous power and strength. His lockout game combined with a strong initial burst consistently gives him initial positional advantages on blockers. Sometimes, that alone is good enough as he can work through the shoulder of a blocker with consistent ease whether he is rushing the passer or defending the run. He is equally productive against both. Where Thibodeaux struggles, however, is when he is matched up against pro-caliber size and power when it comes to secondary rush moves. He needs to show more technique refinement and continue to try and strengthen his base, which plays small and gets too narrow at times. His lack of body control will cause issues as well when it comes to reaction-based action. His tool set is top shelf, but he is far from a finished product and will need to fix a lot prior to being labeled a dependable player.
I regret buying his jersey during his rookie year.  
Dave in Hoboken : 9/11/2024 3:51 pm : link
I don't think anyone is expecting him to be Micah Parsons at this point, but he disappears far too often.
Sorry to  
NYGiantFL007 : 9/11/2024 3:57 pm : link
spam my own thread but my bigger concern now is our strategic direction of this organization

'My stomach is starting to sink in to the realization that we whiffed on both #5 and #7 plus the Kadrius Toney pick (Darren Waller as well) AND finally Micah parson. How catastrophic has this organization been to us.'


Just think of all these missed with these top draft assets! If KT does not pan out to something more then a JAG, where does that put us??? This would be the equivalent of impact to missing on a Franchise QB - ohh .. errrr.. nevermind. :( I WANT TO CRY!!!
RE: Sorry to  
Angel Eyes : 9/11/2024 3:58 pm : link
In comment 16605983 NYGiantFL007 said:
Quote:
spam my own thread but my bigger concern now is our strategic direction of this organization

'My stomach is starting to sink in to the realization that we whiffed on both #5 and #7 plus the Kadrius Toney pick (Darren Waller as well) AND finally Micah parson. How catastrophic has this organization been to us.'


Just think of all these missed with these top draft assets! If KT does not pan out to something more then a JAG, where does that put us??? This would be the equivalent of impact to missing on a Franchise QB - ohh .. errrr.. nevermind. :( I WANT TO CRY!!!

For some reason I keep thinking of whiffing on Oshane Ximines when Maxx Crosby was still on the table...
More  
darren in pdx : 9/11/2024 3:59 pm : link
and more I think he's a bust. Those good reps in training camp got me worked up that things would change with him. Just another line item in a decade-long list of disappointments. Thibs and Neal were supposed to be cornerstone building blocks..sigh.
I liked him alot at Oregon and in the draft  
JonC : 9/11/2024 4:23 pm : link
but he's been a disappointment overall in the NFL. Got to pick it up, otherwise the second contract shouldn't come from NYG.
RE: I liked him alot at Oregon and in the draft  
M.S. : 9/11/2024 4:30 pm : link
In comment 16606019 JonC said:
Quote:
but he's been a disappointment overall in the NFL. Got to pick it up, otherwise the second contract shouldn't come from NYG.

Always felt Joe Schoen’s signing of Brian Burns sealed the fate of Thibs to just 1 contract.
Skinner was talking about  
bc4life : 9/11/2024 4:31 pm : link
how the scheme allowed the edge guys re: gaps. But Skinner pointed out if you're not going to set the edge and freelance you better make the play.

Couple questions I'd have for Bowen - if you want to get pressure from front four alone, then your edge guys need to be stout and part DE. Can KT do that?

The other thing I wondered about when watching Baldy's review - both edge guys got absorbed by the Vikes OTs. I'm thinking "violent hands" would have helped. There's a huge strength differential, but no likes getting jolted with a painful, violent hit. Can KT do that?
RE: RE: I liked him alot at Oregon and in the draft  
JonC : 9/11/2024 4:31 pm : link
In comment 16606034 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16606019 JonC said:


Quote:


but he's been a disappointment overall in the NFL. Got to pick it up, otherwise the second contract shouldn't come from NYG.


Always felt Joe Schoen’s signing of Brian Burns sealed the fate of Thibs to just 1 contract.


Would tend to agree.
RE: I would like to know  
Toth029 : 9/11/2024 5:31 pm : link
In comment 16605952 Dave on the UWS said:
Quote:
what happened to the explosive first step which is what GOT HIM drafted at #5??
Haven’t seen that. He’s just a guy other than that .


BigBlueBanter mentioned a stat how his get off was quicker in Week 1 than it has been in his career. So what is it? Is he trying to bull rush too much? He feels likes more physical than Burns but he gets 1 on 1 opportunities and he's not getting pressure.
Like he is  
Toth029 : 9/11/2024 5:32 pm : link
More physical.
He just seems small out there  
AROCK1000 : 9/11/2024 5:35 pm : link
From day 1
David Copperfield……  
thrunthrublue : 9/11/2024 5:51 pm : link
Disappears less than Thibs, and now JS has added another magician, Burns who also abra kadabra’d himself out of the game too…sad.
RE: Skinner was talking about  
Section331 : 9/11/2024 5:53 pm : link
In comment 16606035 bc4life said:
Quote:
how the scheme allowed the edge guys re: gaps. But Skinner pointed out if you're not going to set the edge and freelance you better make the play.

Couple questions I'd have for Bowen - if you want to get pressure from front four alone, then your edge guys need to be stout and part DE. Can KT do that?

The other thing I wondered about when watching Baldy's review - both edge guys got absorbed by the Vikes OTs. I'm thinking "violent hands" would have helped. There's a huge strength differential, but no likes getting jolted with a painful, violent hit. Can KT do that?


You make a good point, Bowen’s ER’s at TENN were more DE-type guys. It’s his first game with these guys, let’s hope he can scheme some things up to create more pressure. That and WFT’s OL isn’t all that.
RE: SY'56  
islander1 : 9/11/2024 5:58 pm : link
In comment 16605967 NYGiantFL007 said:
Quote:
Review stands today to what we see. But I will add a more concerning trait is that he struggles with the average competent professional Tackle. For him to feast it hass been against below average tackle. Anything above average and he is getting goose egged.


3: Kayvon Thibodeaux – Oregon – 6’4/254

Grade: 83

Summary: Junior entry from South Central Los Angeles. Three-year starter that came out of school as a topflight, 5-star recruit and delivered. Earned 1st Team All-Pac 12 honors all three years, won the 2020 Morris Trophy, and landed on both the 2020 and 2021 All American squads. Thibodeaux has a long, explosive frame that can bend in and out of small creases with tremendous power and strength. His lockout game combined with a strong initial burst consistently gives him initial positional advantages on blockers. Sometimes, that alone is good enough as he can work through the shoulder of a blocker with consistent ease whether he is rushing the passer or defending the run. He is equally productive against both. Where Thibodeaux struggles, however, is when he is matched up against pro-caliber size and power when it comes to secondary rush moves. He needs to show more technique refinement and continue to try and strengthen his base, which plays small and gets too narrow at times. His lack of body control will cause issues as well when it comes to reaction-based action. His tool set is top shelf, but he is far from a finished product and will need to fix a lot prior to being labeled a dependable player.


Prophetic.

Again.
RE: RE: Skinner was talking about  
Angel Eyes : 9/11/2024 6:42 pm : link
In comment 16606123 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 16606035 bc4life said:


Quote:


how the scheme allowed the edge guys re: gaps. But Skinner pointed out if you're not going to set the edge and freelance you better make the play.

Couple questions I'd have for Bowen - if you want to get pressure from front four alone, then your edge guys need to be stout and part DE. Can KT do that?

The other thing I wondered about when watching Baldy's review - both edge guys got absorbed by the Vikes OTs. I'm thinking "violent hands" would have helped. There's a huge strength differential, but no likes getting jolted with a painful, violent hit. Can KT do that?



You make a good point, Bowen’s ER’s at TENN were more DE-type guys. It’s his first game with these guys, let’s hope he can scheme some things up to create more pressure. That and WFT’s OL isn’t all that.

If that's the case, why did we trade for Burns who's on the smaller and lighter end of the spectrum? Unless Kayvon's going to fill the Denico Autry role despite also being 35 lbs lighter and doesn't play with his hand in the dirt a whole lot?...
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/11/2024 6:52 pm : link
I'm not giving up on him, but he is MIA too often. It wouldn't shock me if he had 2 sacks. WFT & then he'd nowhere to be found the following weekend in Cleveland.
KT is good against….  
5BowlsSoon : 9/11/2024 7:18 pm : link
The lower echelon OT. There are a few out there so he will feed a few games.
RE: KT is good against….  
ThomasG : 9/11/2024 7:32 pm : link
In comment 16606180 5BowlsSoon said:
Quote:
The lower echelon OT. There are a few out there so he will feed a few games.



Super use for a #5 overall pick.
his "performance" was unacceptable bullshit. ZERO tackles  
Victor in CT : 9/12/2024 9:07 am : link
ZERO impact. Hand him a big cup of Shut the Fuck Up.

Same goes for Burns at least he doesn't run his mouth but thats a minor +
KT is exactly like he was at Oregon  
Rick in Dallas : 9/12/2024 9:44 am : link
Disappear against good competition. Nothing has changed.
He is a one trick pony who will not attempt to learn secondary pass rush moves.
Did not like him in the predraft period in 2022.
Schoen’s first 3 picks in the 2022 draft very average at best.
Plus it looks like Bellinger is being passed by Johnson.
Fortunaately,  
Bill in UT : 9/12/2024 9:48 am : link
Coach Patterson has integrated the Edges with the rest of the DL this year, so they're much more effective than under Wink
My alarm bells went up when...  
DefenseWins : 9/12/2024 1:37 pm : link
he was talking too much soon after being drafted, focusing on exposure, social media, etc

Neal and Thibs are so frustrating  
Bear vs Shark : 9/12/2024 2:07 pm : link
both of these fucking guys felt like slam dunks at the time. It's baffling and incredibly surprising that they are both underachieving (albeit to varying levels).
RE: Not making excuses but....  
bw in dc : 9/12/2024 2:37 pm : link
In comment 16605872 Pete from Woodstock said:
Quote:
Some say that Darrisaw and O'Neill are among the best offensive tackle duos in football.


Okay, but they shouldn't throw a no hitter against one of our better pass rushers/defenders.

KT played like a rookie in his first game.
RE: RE: RE: I liked him alot at Oregon and in the draft  
Victor in CT : 9/12/2024 3:02 pm : link
In comment 16606037 JonC said:
Quote:
In comment 16606034 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 16606019 JonC said:


Quote:


but he's been a disappointment overall in the NFL. Got to pick it up, otherwise the second contract shouldn't come from NYG.


Always felt Joe Schoen’s signing of Brian Burns sealed the fate of Thibs to just 1 contract.



Would tend to agree.


I'd have to think that would seal the fate of Schoen to 1 contract too. Even more so if Neal doesn't make it either. I don't see how a GM gets away with whiffing on 2 Top 7 picks in the same draft.
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