Daniel Jones: When would you have pulled the plug?

would not have picked him, and he's taken six years of joy out of fandom. Was rooting for them to acquire a QB in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. Over it. So over it. Amateurs, all of them.

In comment 16605862 JonC said:

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would not have picked him, and he's taken six years of joy out of fandom. Was rooting for them to acquire a QB in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. Over it. So over it. Amateurs, all of them.

I also never had any worry, no other team would come in and swoop him up, if the Giants did decide to move on early.

What I know now, I would have not resigned him. I originally was ok with the signing, it was worth the risk considering how he played in 22. My issue is we didn’t go after the QB this year.

I would have drafted JJ this year and would have had him sit the year no matter what. Than we could of drafted a WR at the top of the draft next year when you took over

this year was the first year i thought they were in a good position to draft that player and should have done so.

With Gettleman at the absolute latest

Many here said not to throw the baby out with the bathwater but there was no baby

but assuming I was stuck with that decision, I would have moved him when Schoen and Daboll came in. I don't know what I would have necessarily done at QB instead, but I was done with him by then.

In comment 16605862 JonC said:

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would not have picked him, and he's taken six years of joy out of fandom. Was rooting for them to acquire a QB in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. Over it. So over it. Amateurs, all of them.

This ^

In comment 16605862 JonC said:

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would not have picked him, and he's taken six years of joy out of fandom. Was rooting for them to acquire a QB in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. Over it. So over it. Amateurs, all of them.

Same. I watched a fair bit of him at Duke and never thought he was anything special. When he started getting talked up as a first-round pick, I was perplexed. When people suggested the Giants might draft him, I was annoyed. When they actually drafted him sixth overall, I was furious. I was willing to give him more time when he looked good at times as a rookie but, after the next two lousy seasons, I was done with him for good.

The giants should of picked up Jones 5th year option and gave him a 2 year tryout with daboll. Mara said we did everything possible to screw up this kid. We'll they should of given him 2 years which would of ended last off season and the giants could of walked away. Now they are on thr hook for about 65 million including this year and the dead cap hit next year.

I was never in favor of giving him a large/long term deal. I did not think it was good enough to earn anything. I thought it was good enough to bring him back on the cheap in hopes that it was the start of something.

I don't care that that deal is now dwarfed and brings him to the middle of the pack. I care that that deal, this season in particular, is a cap killer, and it was more than double his worth.

After the 2021 season. The thing that killed us was that was an QB draft year.

It was becoming clear at the end of 2019 he wasn't good. 2020 cemented it.

One thing I'll add is we KNOW the Giants loved Justin Herbert. I'm certain they had a higher grade on him than Jones. Given that, they should have drafted Herbert and traded Jones that off-season.

Philosophically there needs to be a mindset in place where it is always ok to upgrade at QB. I don't care if the starter was recently drafted or recently given a big contract.

The Giants don't just need to move on from Jones; they need to move on from full bloom love at QB.

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he showed enough his rookie year to think he could be the answer. He needed to cut down on his TO’s but most of those were fumbles, and I thought that would be easier to clean up than INT’s would.

Midway through his 2nd season I saw enough to say I’d seen enough.

Tampa Bay. If you look at the final numbers Jones had some decent overall numbers in a close loss, but the real story was how many poor things he did during the game. Particularly around slow processing, throwing late downfield and continually putting the ball in harms way. He got picked off several times in that game (and a lot during first half of the season) and finished the game off by missing an easy throw for a 2-point conversion that would have tied the game.

After that game, the coaches didn't allow him to throw downfield any longer. And it worked because his interceptions went way down, but so did his passing touchdowns and overall offensive scoring.

And this trend continues through to current day. He is just a bad passing QB that could never develop.

In comment 16605888 ThomasG said:

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Tampa Bay. If you look at the final numbers Jones had some decent overall numbers in a close loss, but the real story was how many poor things he did during the game. Particularly around slow processing, throwing late downfield and continually putting the ball in harms way. He got picked off several times in that game (and a lot during first half of the season) and finished the game off by missing an easy throw for a 2-point conversion that would have tied the game. After that game, the coaches didn't allow him to throw downfield any longer. And it worked because his interceptions went way down, but so did his passing touchdowns and overall offensive scoring. And this trend continues through to current day. He is just a bad passing QB that could never develop.

Yup

this thread about Matthew Stafford is a gem to read years later
Stafford and Lions to part ways - ( New Window )

In comment 16605893 santacruzom said:

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this thread about Matthew Stafford is a gem to read years later Stafford and Lions to part ways - ( New Window )

Wow.

those who would never have wasted a pick drafting him.

The bold move would have been parting ways after his rookie year and drafting Herbert. But that would have been a ground-breaking move - giving up on a QB after his rookie year - and required real vision.

Unfortunately, Gettleman was not going to give him on his guy that early and Mara would never have signed on his Eli, Jr.

So, considering these variables, I would have made the move in 2021 for Fields. And tried to move Jones in a trade.

Not to pick up his 5th year option he shouldn't have played another game. At that point we should have brought someone else in and moved forward with them. So after 2021.

This is assuming that I don't have the option to go back in time and not draft him at all.

All more sensible than what we've done:

1. After the new GM/coach decided not to pick up his fifth-year option. You obviously scouted and didn't view him as worth $20M QB (or whatever the going rate was at the time).

2. When you couldn't sign him to a more reasonable contract, and/or sign Barkley long-term (if that was indeed the plan--sign Barkley long-term, franchise Daniel one more year to hedge your bets).

3. At any point last year when it became excruciatingly clear he was not a franchise QB--the first few games, when a journeyman backup and an undrafted QB with no real reps thoroughly outplayed him. Even if you're stuck a year with the contract, and cannot unload him, sign someone else and put him on ice for a year to avoid triggering the injury guarantee.

4. Today. Right now. Stop wasting another second on this lost investment. Use the rest of the season to assess DeVito and see what you have.

#1 and #2 are consistent with actions at the time; the real actions are contradictory.

#3-4 is cutting your losses and just doing the smart thing when the evidence is so obvious.

(I'm with the crew that wouldn't have drafted him, but the OP seems to premise the question on pulling the plug, which means we had him in the first place.)

drafted Herbert when we had the opportunity. That was how the Cardinals moved on from Rosen and how we should have moved on from Jones.

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In comment 16605906 Chris in LA said:

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3. At any point last year when it became excruciatingly clear he was not a franchise QB--the first few games, when a journeyman backup and an undrafted QB with no real reps thoroughly outplayed him. Even if you're stuck a year with the contract, and cannot unload him, sign someone else and put him on ice for a year to avoid triggering the injury guarantee.

I still can't get over this. Tommy DeVito, who isn't good, came in and made more plays as a UDFA than Jones has since 2019. How does that happening not act as a slap in the face of the organization, a screaming flashing warning light telling you "THIS GUY SUCKS!"?

In comment 16605909 Greg from LI said:

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When he wins 10+ for the Steelers and gets them to the AFC CG, you can kiss my arse. ;)

LOL -- most of us have the occasional or more frequent silly take. But I can see why one would quit the site after being so committed to stupidity.

In comment 16605893 santacruzom said:

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this thread about Matthew Stafford is a gem to read years later Stafford and Lions to part ways - ( New Window )

This is what makes BBI a treasure. There is no hiding from the historical record. It is a time capsule. Terps, Dunk, BW and Mike from Ohio preaching common sense...

In comment 16605917 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 16605906 Chris in LA said: Quote: 3. At any point last year when it became excruciatingly clear he was not a franchise QB--the first few games, when a journeyman backup and an undrafted QB with no real reps thoroughly outplayed him. Even if you're stuck a year with the contract, and cannot unload him, sign someone else and put him on ice for a year to avoid triggering the injury guarantee. I still can't get over this. Tommy DeVito, who isn't good, came in and made more plays as a UDFA than Jones has since 2019. How does that happening not act as a slap in the face of the organization, a screaming flashing warning light telling you "THIS GUY SUCKS!"?

I can answer this one, the sycophants were all claiming that TD played against the easy teams and Jones got the good ones. Even if true, it’s not a good look when an UDFA QB with no practice reps outplays your $40M starter.

If they'd drafted a QB then they'd be in a much better place today. They either would have hit with Allen or Jackson (though I'm guessing Jackson want even on their board as a QB) or missed with Darnold/Rosen; look at the four teams that picked those QBs - all four are in a better place at QB than the Giants are.

It's ok to draft a QB and miss. It's not ok to pretend a shitty QB is good. They MUST remember that when they take the next QB. 2 years is the leash. That's it.

In comment 16605903 Biteymax22 said:

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Not to pick up his 5th year option he shouldn't have played another game. At that point we should have brought someone else in and moved forward with them. So after 2021. This is assuming that I don't have the option to go back in time and not draft him at all.

This.

In comment 16605893 santacruzom said:

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this thread about Matthew Stafford is a gem to read years later Stafford and Lions to part ways - ( New Window )

Tough scene here.
Aged like milk in the hot sun - ( New Window )

revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

In comment 16605919 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16605909 Greg from LI said: Quote: . When he wins 10+ for the Steelers and gets them to the AFC CG, you can kiss my arse. ;)

bw, you know I love ya, but you force me to bring up the distant past: remember when you thought Chris Redman was going to be an NFL star? 😆

You ever hear from Mark S anymore? I can only imagine the things he has to say about Jones.

1) would have never drafted him in 2019

2) 2020 when Herbert was available

3) after they declined the 5th year option. They declined it for a reason but then paid him off of a mediocre year. Made zero sense.

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said:

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revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

For five years, I've been told I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything. And that's probably more true than not when it comes to football, but....yeah, I and others had Jones pegged all along. You think I'm happy that we were right? Hell fuck no. But you guys always got the cause and effect mixed up here. We all wanted Jones gone not because we wanted to be vindicated, but because we wanted the Giants to win and we were confident that they wouldn't do that with Jones at QB.

I was mostly checked out of that season because of the weird Covid atmosphere and total lack of excitement over the roster, so it was a lot of box score checking. It became clear, however, looking at the box scores and checking out threads here that he wasn't making any progress from season 1 to season 2, which is usually a giant red flag for any QB with rare exceptions like Drew Brees.

In comment 16605939 Greg from LI said:

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bw, you know I love ya, but you force me to bring up the distant past: remember when you thought Chris Redman was going to be an NFL star? 😆 You ever hear from Mark S anymore? I can only imagine the things he has to say about Jones.

Star? I had Redman in Canton. ;)

I connect with Mark S every so often, yes. I'm glad you brought him up because I've been meaning to reach back out.

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said:

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revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

You seem quite unhappy participating in this community.

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said:

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revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

Do you have something better to do?

Maybe you can start a thread on what we should look for in the big upcoming divisional game with WFT. That should get plenty of hits for you to discuss.

but I was not on board with DJ once the FA conversation started in 2022. I didn't think he was bad but he wasn't a franchise QB and no that Minnesota game didn't change that. The eagles game did solidify it though. Did I think he was a bad QB? No.. But he wasn't a 40M/year QB. And thats when I was done with him.

In comment 16605956 christian said:

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In comment 16605937 4xchamps said: Quote: revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right? You seem quite unhappy participating in this community.

Our favorite poster makes a lot of appearances in that Stafford thread - our Fatfriend in Charlotte.

Needless to say, unfortunately, he was wrong on Stafford.

but after the the first neck injury I thought he should retire. How long did Peyton Manning play after his neck injury? He wasn't the same afterwards but he started from a much higher skill level than DJ.

checked out on him after 2021, I kept thinking it was the coaching and lack of talent around him holding him back until then. I figured 2022 he'd be a stop-gap as the team would do poorly enough to get someone else in 2023. Then 2022 happened, "Okay, I guess Daboll figured something out with him and they can ride him out for the next couple of seasons and while they develop someone on the bench."

2023 was done again. After passing on the available QBs "Well, they're stuck with them because of the contract, with at least an average line and Nabers/Wan'dale he should be able to at least do the minimum to get them into next season." It's fan abuse at this point.

I told friends that a Minshew or similar caliber back-up QB would be pointless to sign because it'd wouldn't change the win column. Probably not, but at least they'd be able to get the ball out and let the young players on offense develop..

In comment 16605965 bw in dc said:

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In comment 16605956 christian said: Quote: In comment 16605937 4xchamps said: Quote: revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right? You seem quite unhappy participating in this community. Our favorite poster makes a lot of appearances in that Stafford thread - our Fatfriend in Charlotte. Needless to say, unfortunately, he was wrong on Stafford.

He was like the Michael Jordan of being loud and wrong on threads. Miss it.

but I was on record as willing to take a chance on other QBs in that same draft who haven't panned out, so I can't claim victory on that one.

In fairness, and I said it before the game was played and I haven't budged an inch, the Seattle game last year was his last opportunity. I thought we could have finally had something with him after 2022 and it was alarming how fast, dramatic and obvious his regression back to a crappy player was early last season. I just thought if he was the QB we needed he would have shown out in that Seattle game against a team that was not great. That performance was so pitiful and Daboll compounded it with a completely organic reaction that was so telling.

In short, week 6 last year. I haven't given him another thought as a decent QB in this league since. I thought the Giants agreed....little did I know.

In comment 16605862 JonC said:

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would not have picked him, and he's taken six years of joy out of fandom. Was rooting for them to acquire a QB in 2020, 2021, 2022, etc. Over it. So over it. Amateurs, all of them.

This, I never would have picked him, nor Barkley. What a F'n disaster.

In comment 16605945 Greg from LI said:

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In comment 16605937 4xchamps said: Quote: revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right? For five years, I've been told I'm an idiot who doesn't know anything. And that's probably more true than not when it comes to football, but....yeah, I and others had Jones pegged all along. You think I'm happy that we were right? Hell fuck no. But you guys always got the cause and effect mixed up here. We all wanted Jones gone not because we wanted to be vindicated, but because we wanted the Giants to win and we were confident that they wouldn't do that with Jones at QB.

A Virginia kinda confirms that

JK

In comment 16605922 christian said:

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LOL -- most of us have the occasional or more frequent silly take. But I can see why one would quit the site after being so committed to stupidity.

Oh he’s still reading

Against Wake Forest, yeah, but I'll take whatever football happiness I can get at this point.

Between the Giants and UVA, I'm not sure why I even watch football anymore.

In comment 16605937 4xchamps said:

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revisionist history... what's the point of the question? so everyone can say they were right?

Except it wasn't revisionist history. A bunch of amateurs got it right and the brass blew an easy one.