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Looking ahead with some positivity

gogiants : 9/11/2024 7:42 pm
ESPN ran an article back in 2014 on how many players each team needed to be a Super Bowl contender. Pro Football Focus analyzed the 28 teams that played in the conference championship games for the 2007 to 2013 seasons, it found that, on average, 40 percent of those rosters were composed of good/elite players (you had to play 250-plus snaps to qualify). Using that methodology, PFF determined how many above-average players stood between your team and contending for the 2014 season Super Bowl.

Looking at last year’s Giant team there were 40 players with 250-plus snaps. So taking 40 percent of that says that they need 16 players of good to elite status. Looking at the positives on the team players the Giants could be considered to be three players away using that methodology.

Defense
1 Nose Tackle Dexter Lawrence
2 Outside Linebacker Brian Burns
3 Inside Linebacker Bobby Okereke
4 Outside Linebacker Kayvon Thibodeaux
5 Safety J. Pinnock
6 Safety T. Nubin
7 Nickel A. Phillips
8 Right Cornerback D. Banks
Others defense
Defensive Tackle Rakeem Nunez-Roches
Inside Linebacker Micah McFadden
Left Cornerback C. Flott

Offense
1 Tackle A. Thomas
2 Tackle J. Eluemunor
3 Wide Receiver Darius Slayton
4 Wide Receiver Wan’Dale Robinson
5 Wide Receiver Malik Nabers
Others to improve
6? Center J.M. Schmitz
7? Running Back Devin Singletary
8? Quarterback Daniel Jones
Others offense
Guard J. Runyan Jr.
Guard G. Van Roten
Tight End/Fullback Theo Johnson

Yes quarterback will stand out as the key. But this weekend we play the Commanders. This is a get right game for Jones. Washington gave up the most passing yards last season and opponents had the highest quarterback rating. In 2024 week one they also gave up the highest quarterback rating and were 29th in passing yards allowed. For thirteen of their last 18 regular season games their opponent had a passer rating of over 100. That include both of Daniel Jones wins.

As for Singletary, the Commanders were 24th in rushing yards allowed per attempt last season and 27th in rushing yards allowed. In the one game this season they have done better coming in at ninth in yards per attempt allowed and 16th in rushing yards allowed.

In week one Jayden Daniels had some interesting stats. His completed air yards per pass attempt was 1.3 and a completed air yards per completion 1.8. Both league lows in week one. Their YAC/Cmp of 9.1 yards was the fourth best in week one. Most of that came from the running backs. No Washington player saw more than four targets. Daniels did just overthrow a 50 yard pass attempt to Terry McLaurin. Daniels had another deep pass attempt in the game. This a Commanders game report:

Washington often had to play underneath the Buccaneers' defense, which Daniels explained was because Tampa Bay did a good job dropping back into their zones. "That's what Tampa gave us. They did a good job of dropping to their spots in their zone and forcing us to take the underneath stuff," Daniels said. "Obviously there's times where we had a spot. I missed Terry. One I wish I could have back."

He had 16 rush attempts for 88 yards, a 5.5 yard average, 8 first downs and a long of 17. He had 2 rushing touchdowns. He ended up with the second-most rushing yards by a quarterback in an NFL debut since 1950 and became the first QB ever to rush for 80 yards and two touchdowns in his first game. This a Bucs report on the game:

The defense could not stop Jayden Daniels running to save their lives. They kept leaving rushing lanes wide open and Todd Bowles absolutely refused to spy him. He wasn’t doing anything through the air, but was tearing up the Bucs on the ground. Daniels had over 50 yards rushing in the first half alone.

Tampa and the Commanders had the second and third highest blitz percentage respectively in week one. From a Commanders game report - Daniels used his legs to avoid the pressure, escape the pocket and either scramble or then find a target.

The Giants have invested in improving their run defense. The last time a quarterback ran on the Giants for 80+ yards was back in 2020 with Lamar Jackson. From that season there have been 57 games in the league with quarterbacks rushing for 80+ yards.

As far as the Giants organization let me just say that I have been fortunate to see the Giants win four Super Bowls with one in each decade. There are still six Super Bowls left in this decade. To keep the streak alive to me would erase ten years of lousy football!

This is a winnable game this week. Definitely got to spy on Daniels. The Commanders are only a two point favorite and are the home team. Just taking it one game at a time. To be 1-0 in the division and at .500 I won’t complain. Go Giants!
...  
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/11/2024 7:50 pm : link
It's going to take more than one good game for people to rally around Jones. It's going to take an extended stretch of good play for that to happen. Sure, he can play well vs. WFT, but if he looks like shit vs. Cleveland & Dallas the following weeks...no one is going to GAF about Week 2.
The rookie class  
Breeze_94 : 9/11/2024 8:04 pm : link
Impressed on Sunday. Nabers looks like he’ll be elite, and Nubin and Phillips both could shape up to be very good starters. Theo Johnson needs to work on the drops, but he flashed as a blocker and receiver on Sunday. I was mildly surprised with Muasau too. I’m sure Tracy and Chatman will also get more opportunities as the season goes on too.
Along with Daboll  
thrunthrublue : 9/11/2024 8:05 pm : link
Washington also looked at the tape….Jones is more Mr. Magoo than Tom Brady, he either hands off, throws an interception or attempts one yard passes, which he throws into the ground, to avoid more interceptions…..
I keep reading people saying  
dlauster : 9/11/2024 8:16 pm : link
that Washington is our get right game. I have to believe that they are saying the exact same thing about us.
RE: I keep reading people saying  
Scooter185 : 9/11/2024 8:30 pm : link
In comment 16606224 dlauster said:
Quote:
that Washington is our get right game. I have to believe that they are saying the exact same thing about us.


I was thinking about this earlier. Washington knows that Daniel has historically done well against them, and I'm sure they're keen to change that especially with how he played in game 1.
You are way over-classifying the above average starters  
Jerry in_DC : 9/11/2024 8:48 pm : link
But I do agree that on the whole this is not like a 3 win talent roster.

Plop a good QB on this team and they'd be right in the playoff mix. Not at the top of the pile, but we could credible compete with the good teams.
If Simmons doesn’t get serious playtime against Wash  
JoeSchoens11 : 9/11/2024 9:09 pm : link
I’ll be pissed. He’s custom made to play against a QB like Daniels.
I’ll say this, if they don’t win this weekend  
Rudy5757 : 9/11/2024 9:13 pm : link
The season is over. Going 0-2 playing 2 teams they should beat or at least compete with basically ends any hope for the season. I really thought we could or should have beaten Minnesota. 0-2 also starts the finger pointing imo.

I have been positive about the team winning 10 games, a loss this week kills that thought. Can’t be lifeless against the skins. Another game like last week and we may as well go for the #1 pick, fire the coach and possibly the GM and reset. There is a solid core here to build on.
RE: If Simmons doesn’t get serious playtime against Wash  
SirLoinOfBeef : 9/11/2024 9:52 pm : link
In comment 16606269 JoeSchoens11 said:
Quote:
I’ll be pissed. He’s custom made to play against a QB like Daniels.


Is this what everyone has been waiting for?

Finally Simmons shows why he was drafted so high?
Please do not Bogart that  
Sec 103 : 9/11/2024 9:56 pm : link
joint brother!
RE: If Simmons doesn’t get serious playtime against Wash  
MookGiants : 9/11/2024 10:30 pm : link
In comment 16606269 JoeSchoens11 said:
Quote:
I’ll be pissed. He’s custom made to play against a QB like Daniels.


Simmons isn't custom made to play against anyone. He's not a good football player. He's athletic as just about anyone, but just doesn't have it as a football player.
PFF Methodology  
Walnuts : 9/11/2024 10:30 pm : link
If we're going by PFF metrics here, how many of the Giants' players would they classify as above average at this point in time? Probably Lawrence, Burns, Okerke, Thomas, Nabers? Obviously many of the other players could improve, but at this point in time it seems like a stretch.

Also 16 players is like 70% of the starters. I don't think we're all that close to having 70% of our starters being above average.
If the Giants continue with their game plan they used against the  
Jack Stroud : 9/11/2024 11:00 pm : link
Vikes they are doomed.
Simmons would be a good spy  
dancing blue bear : 9/11/2024 11:28 pm : link
If they opt to go that route
….  
BleedBlue : 9/12/2024 12:19 am : link
People are going to be amazed once we get a real QB in here how much the team improves. A good qb covers up sooo many warts a team has. He makes everyone look like better players,

Lazard is not a good WR but look at his game Monday night…. Gauranteed we see better player from Hyatt with a new qb here
The roster needs a lot of work  
Mike from Ohio : 9/12/2024 8:37 am : link
but it is absolutely being held back by the QB. That impacts not only the offense's ability to score points, but impacts the defense by forcing them back onto the field after very brief drives because they can't pick up first downs.

This team, with even average QB play, could look much improved. We are just a very long way from having average QB play.
Interesting analysis of the talent on our roster  
BillT : 9/12/2024 8:40 am : link
Like I and others have said this is a better roster than we had in quite a while. Don’t think we’re a definite playoff team but a competitive team is a reasonable expectation. However, we didn’t see that week one. Hopefully, that will show itself.
RE: The rookie class  
Biteymax22 : 9/12/2024 9:01 am : link
In comment 16606213 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
Impressed on Sunday. Nabers looks like he’ll be elite, and Nubin and Phillips both could shape up to be very good starters. Theo Johnson needs to work on the drops, but he flashed as a blocker and receiver on Sunday. I was mildly surprised with Muasau too. I’m sure Tracy and Chatman will also get more opportunities as the season goes on too.


I'm interested to see how Schoen is perceived at the end of the season if we finish 4-13 but the 2024 draft class looks strong.
RE: RE: The rookie class  
Mike from Ohio : 9/12/2024 9:42 am : link
In comment 16606437 Biteymax22 said:
Quote:
In comment 16606213 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


Impressed on Sunday. Nabers looks like he’ll be elite, and Nubin and Phillips both could shape up to be very good starters. Theo Johnson needs to work on the drops, but he flashed as a blocker and receiver on Sunday. I was mildly surprised with Muasau too. I’m sure Tracy and Chatman will also get more opportunities as the season goes on too.



I'm interested to see how Schoen is perceived at the end of the season if we finish 4-13 but the 2024 draft class looks strong.


What I am most interested in seeing by the end of the year is how this Dline is playing. If Burns and Thibs are now a pass rushing force, I will feel much different about both large investments. If they play much of this season like they did Week 1, I don't care how good Nabers and Nubin are, I will be ready to move on from him.
RE: RE: RE: The rookie class  
Biteymax22 : 9/12/2024 10:14 am : link
In comment 16606476 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 16606437 Biteymax22 said:


Quote:


In comment 16606213 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


Impressed on Sunday. Nabers looks like he’ll be elite, and Nubin and Phillips both could shape up to be very good starters. Theo Johnson needs to work on the drops, but he flashed as a blocker and receiver on Sunday. I was mildly surprised with Muasau too. I’m sure Tracy and Chatman will also get more opportunities as the season goes on too.



I'm interested to see how Schoen is perceived at the end of the season if we finish 4-13 but the 2024 draft class looks strong.



What I am most interested in seeing by the end of the year is how this Dline is playing. If Burns and Thibs are now a pass rushing force, I will feel much different about both large investments. If they play much of this season like they did Week 1, I don't care how good Nabers and Nubin are, I will be ready to move on from him.


I'd agree with that, specifically with Burns. I know Schoen's first draft was by and large done with other people's scouting reports, I want to make sure his decisions and evaluations are improving.
After week 2  
gogiants : 9/17/2024 11:55 am : link
In the Commanders game
the three players identified as needing to improve did improve

Others to improve
6? Center J.M. Schmitz
7? Running Back Devin Singletary
8? Quarterback Daniel Jones

The O-Line looked good. I was really impressed by some of Singletary’s runs. Daniel Jones played well. Yes it was against Washington but you can only play the opponent for that week. Here is an article that contains the pff grades for week 2 – https://www.bigblueview.com/2024/9/16/24243494/what-can-we-learn-from-giants-week-2-pff-grades-snap-counts.
Yes it was a loss but I look at the goal as stated in the post that of winning a Super Bowl in this decade. Is the team getting better? Are they closing in on the 40% of the core team to be elite to good players? I feel that with the improvement on those three players that they did get closer. So the Washington game was a positive on the path to the ultimate goal.

Looking ahead to this week and the Browns, that looks like a winnable game. Their offense is poor. One could make the point that our offense is better than that of the Browns. Their defense is better and is quite good. The Giant offense will have to take another step forward this week.

Here is a look at the Giants core team and their pff grades for the season so far. The bolded players I would consider as solidly in the good/elite status.



Micah McFadden had a great game filling in for the injured Darius Muasau. McFadden had a team leading 13 tackles (seven solo), including one sack. We will need to see more of this production to move into a solid good/elite status. McFfadden, drafted by the Giants in round 5 of the 2022 draft, had a good college career. In 2019 he was named IU’s Most Outstanding Defensive Player of the Year and in 2020 he was honored as Indiana’s Anthony Thompson Most Valuable Player.

Thibs had a brutal game in week 1 with a 38.9 and a face mask penalty on third-and-16 that led to a Vikings TD three plays later. This week he improved to a 60.3. Week one Thibs saw one of the better tackles he will see in Darrisaw. For the next four games only the Seahawks with Charles Cross should give him a similar competition. Though Thibs season grade suffers from week 1 he is probably more like the week 2 grade which would put him as average.

Pinnock is another player that should bounce back from a bad season grade. In week 2 he had a good two sacks, nine tackles (two for loss) and a quarterback hit. However he suffered from a critical holding penalty on third and nine and also a seemingly interception that was taken away from him by Zach Ertz. Pinnocks week two grade was 29.6.
After week 3  
gogiants : 9/23/2024 9:28 pm : link
In the Browns game
the offense did not take a step forward from week 2 but that would be expected going from playing the Washington defense to the Browns defense. It was still good enough for the win. The defense did take a step forward but again we played an offensively lesser opponent.

Looking ahead to this week and the Cowboys will be a reality check.

Here is a look at the Giants core team and their pff grades for the season so far. The bolded players I would consider as solidly in the good/elite status.



After an improved week from Brian Burns, Andru Phillips and Malik Nabers, all three moved from good to elite status. Micah McFadden had another solid week and moved to a solid elite. Andrew Thomas dropped down from elite to good status. The total number of good/elite for the team remained constant at seven. The goal being 16 players.

Pinnock did have a good bounce back going from bad to average status and Thibs moved up from bad to poor. These with the improved week of the three other defensive players moved the defense average up but remained in the good range..

A noticeable increase for Nabers and Roten were not enough to offset downward trends for Jones, Runyan, Eluemunor and Thomas. The offensive line had a downward trend against the better Browns defense. Therefore the overall offensive average decreased but remained in the average range.

Okereke, Pinnock, Nubin and Schmitz have all improved in week three and are in the average category.
interesting thread  
Eric on Li : 9/23/2024 9:35 pm : link
okereke, banks, thibs, singletary, and a couple OL stepping up to the good level is the path to this roster getting to the playoff level.

the defense has the talent to be a really good unit but the depth is an issue at all 3 levels. the offense has decent depth but is obviously tbd depending on how the qb plays.
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