Banks and Papa were authentically harsh about the performance on the their podcast, which has not been the case in the past. This was on the giants app notebook for this week.
It is Brian Daboll's job as the head coach and the play-caller to devise a plan that will elevate Jones' performance and enable the offense to show significant improvement and score more points when the Giants visit the Washington Commanders Sunday in Northwest Stadium.
Daboll must also ensure Jones did not experience any loss of confidence and is mentally and emotionally ready to play his best.
The language in these articles and team driven media has traditionally been very conservative and protective of any finger pointing. I’m wondering if Mara is setting this up for what he sees as inevitable change, yet again.
I didn’t phrase it. That’s copied and pasted. It’s coddling of Jones for sure. They know they are moving on from Jones. This feels like strategic narrative about the coaching staff.
The only criticism for the coach is why has he not yet benched DJ yet? And unfortunately, not benching DJ soon enough is what will eventually get Daboll fired.
He said the defense is stressed out and demoralized already.
He also noted that he believe Daboll is going to ride or die with Jones.
Perhaps that's Daboll scapegoating Jones to save his own job.
He believes it is on the players and not on the coach at this point.
How can a team be so stressed and unprepared week 1 and not have it be on the coach? Yes the QB stunk, but they were totally unprepared week 1 last year vs Dallas as well.
The shine is coming off of Daboll and the stink is setting in.
The only criticism for the coach is why has he not yet benched DJ yet? And unfortunately, not benching DJ soon enough is what will eventually get Daboll fired.
I agree completely. Jones is the biggest problem this team has. The point of this thread is after one week the organization is starting to change it’s messaging, which is deliberate.
The only criticism for the coach is why has he not yet benched DJ yet? And unfortunately, not benching DJ soon enough is what will eventually get Daboll fired.
I agree completely. Jones is the biggest problem this team has. The point of this thread is after one week the organization is starting to change it’s messaging, which is deliberate.
He said the defense is stressed out and demoralized already.
He also noted that he believe Daboll is going to ride or die with Jones.
Perhaps that's Daboll scapegoating Jones to save his own job.
He believes it is on the players and not on the coach at this point.
How can a team be so stressed and unprepared week 1 and not have it be on the coach? Yes the QB stunk, but they were totally unprepared week 1 last year vs Dallas as well.
The shine is coming off of Daboll and the stink is setting in.
And Casillas has adamantly defended Jones in his spots in the past. It was a drastic shift quickly on all fronts.
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It still sounds like more coddling of Jones.
I didn’t phrase it. That’s copied and pasted. It’s coddling of Jones for sure. They know they are moving on from Jones. This feels like strategic narrative about the coaching staff.
Ahh got it.
I assume this the organization is just defending a QB under fire and guy they all seem to love unconditionally rather than setting Jones up already to start again in 2025 while blaming Daboll.
I think it will be little Bill, but yup.
You don’t have to be a genius to see where this is going: if this season goes to hell in a hand basket-which I fully expect-Dabs and Schoen will both be gone & they’ll get all the blame for the Jones contract. Hell, you had Woodstock the other day say that that contract was on Schoen and Dabs, not John. While I don’t know if I totally buy that given John’s public affection for Jones, that’ll be the line coming from 1925 Giants Way.
He also noted that he believe Daboll is going to ride or die with Jones.
Flashback to Joe Judge volunteering how much he liked Daniel Jones the moment after he was fired
Say what you want about Mara, but Jones seems to have some rasputin-like ability to curry favor with multiple coaches and GMs.
I assume this the organization is just defending a QB under fire and guy they all seem to love unconditionally rather than setting Jones up already to start again in 2025 while blaming Daboll.
I think they are done with DJ, but also losing faith in Daboll. Jones, they are inevitably are moving on from, regardless. The narrative around Daboll has to shift so when the 4th coach in a row doesn’t last 4 years they’ve had a narrative that started early to explain it.
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It still sounds like more coddling of Jones.
I didn’t phrase it. That’s copied and pasted. It’s coddling of Jones for sure. They know they are moving on from Jones. This feels like strategic narrative about the coaching staff.
1,000%. This is right out of the Mara playbook, when things go south, start planting stories with their press hacks. As I said in the Pat Leonard thread, things are going to get really ugly really quickly, especially if they lose this weekend.
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It still sounds like more coddling of Jones.
I didn’t phrase it. That’s copied and pasted. It’s coddling of Jones for sure. They know they are moving on from Jones. This feels like strategic narrative about the coaching staff.
It would help if you either use quotes and/or italics when copying directly. I was a little unsure if that was your opinion of the "org".
Yep, this is all to justify firing Daboll. Why would any decent coach come to his organization?
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John Mara "We would like to introduce Mike Vrabel as our new head coach"
I think it will be little Bill, but yup.
Gosh, I hope not. BB would be a temporary patch.
Using an old JFK speech line...
"Ask not what Daniel Jones can do for the team, ask what the team can do for Daniel Jones..."
If Jones is such a "hard worker", it's time for that hard work to manifest in Jones lifting the team. After six long, arduous years.
JFC. I'm so sick of watching this guy plan QB.
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In comment 16606563 Lambuth_Special said:
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It still sounds like more coddling of Jones.
I didn’t phrase it. That’s copied and pasted. It’s coddling of Jones for sure. They know they are moving on from Jones. This feels like strategic narrative about the coaching staff.
1,000%. This is right out of the Mara playbook, when things go south, start planting stories with their press hacks. As I said in the Pat Leonard thread, things are going to get really ugly really quickly, especially if they lose this weekend.
I might self-immolate if there's a Vacchiano tweet in the future about the org failing Jones again, that would signal him being the starter again in 2025.
Daboll is tacking calm because he was likely scolded by Palpitations because of his volcanic nature. In fact, I could see Palpitations getting very irritated when Daboll did the infamous tablet toss during the MNF loss to Seattle.
So, he lost weight to feel better and now he's in full "serenity now" mode.
When he finally snaps, it's going to be gold. ;)
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In comment 16606567 BLUATHRT said:
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In comment 16606563 Lambuth_Special said:
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It still sounds like more coddling of Jones.
I didn’t phrase it. That’s copied and pasted. It’s coddling of Jones for sure. They know they are moving on from Jones. This feels like strategic narrative about the coaching staff.
1,000%. This is right out of the Mara playbook, when things go south, start planting stories with their press hacks. As I said in the Pat Leonard thread, things are going to get really ugly really quickly, especially if they lose this weekend.
I might self-immolate if there's a Vacchiano tweet in the future about the org failing Jones again, that would signal him being the starter again in 2025.
Yes, that is the problem with this emerging paradigm where Daboll is being blamed for poor game planning and the team being unprepared. Mara will fire Daboll but DJ will be back in 2025 with another head coach! Maybe Mara should hire Coach Molinaro from The Sopranos - we know that he is never "unprepared"!!!
I might self-immolate if there's a Vacchiano tweet in the future about the org failing Jones again, that would signal him being the starter again in 2025.
Jones hanging a third head coach pelt to his wall would be truly amazing.
i fully expect Paul schwartz or the like to write some puff piece about the maras at some point this season. So sick of this crap. It is so transparent who has been the driving force behind keeping Jones around and its not joe schoen
Daniel has had SIX YEARS in the NFL as a starting QB. If he hasn't learned how to play the position now, he never will.
I'm sure he knows, btw. What's not being said is what we see on the field. The guy can't process quickly, and has no feel or confidence he can make the throws when he sees someone open.
As I've said before, he's been like this for almost six years. What we see is what he is. It's not going to get better.
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In comment 16606602 Section331 said:
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In comment 16606567 BLUATHRT said:
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In comment 16606563 Lambuth_Special said:
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It still sounds like more coddling of Jones.
I didn’t phrase it. That’s copied and pasted. It’s coddling of Jones for sure. They know they are moving on from Jones. This feels like strategic narrative about the coaching staff.
1,000%. This is right out of the Mara playbook, when things go south, start planting stories with their press hacks. As I said in the Pat Leonard thread, things are going to get really ugly really quickly, especially if they lose this weekend.
I might self-immolate if there's a Vacchiano tweet in the future about the org failing Jones again, that would signal him being the starter again in 2025.
Yes, that is the problem with this emerging paradigm where Daboll is being blamed for poor game planning and the team being unprepared. Mara will fire Daboll but DJ will be back in 2025 with another head coach! Maybe Mara should hire Coach Molinaro from The Sopranos - we know that he is never "unprepared"!!!
I don't think Coach Molinaro would work, because Daniel Jones doesn't have the makings of a varsity athlete.
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In comment 16606618 Lambuth_Special said:
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In comment 16606602 Section331 said:
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In comment 16606567 BLUATHRT said:
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In comment 16606563 Lambuth_Special said:
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It still sounds like more coddling of Jones.
I didn’t phrase it. That’s copied and pasted. It’s coddling of Jones for sure. They know they are moving on from Jones. This feels like strategic narrative about the coaching staff.
1,000%. This is right out of the Mara playbook, when things go south, start planting stories with their press hacks. As I said in the Pat Leonard thread, things are going to get really ugly really quickly, especially if they lose this weekend.
I might self-immolate if there's a Vacchiano tweet in the future about the org failing Jones again, that would signal him being the starter again in 2025.
Yes, that is the problem with this emerging paradigm where Daboll is being blamed for poor game planning and the team being unprepared. Mara will fire Daboll but DJ will be back in 2025 with another head coach! Maybe Mara should hire Coach Molinaro from The Sopranos - we know that he is never "unprepared"!!!
I don't think Coach Molinaro would work, because Daniel Jones doesn't have the makings of a varsity athlete.
LOL! You are right. I can't help but think that if Uncle Junior had only been on Gettleman's scout team in 2019, this entire DJ Era could have been avoided...
Quote of the day…”how can you blame him?”
Getting to Jones while only rushing 4
Dropping guys back to prevent the deeper routes from being open.
Daboll did not respond with a way to move the chains. That combined with poor throws and drops resulted in the shit show that we all witnessed.
We did not have a QB on our roster who could have brought us close to victory. This statement also was not to excuse Jones. He looks like crap.
You don’t have to be a genius to see where this is going: if this season goes to hell in a hand basket-which I fully expect-Dabs and Schoen will both be gone & they’ll get all the blame for the Jones contract. Hell, you had Woodstock the other day say that that contract was on Schoen and Dabs, not John. While I don’t know if I totally buy that given John’s public affection for Jones, that’ll be the line coming from 1925 Giants Way.
i see it the same way.
Jints Central doing what they do best.
Getting to Jones while only rushing 4
Dropping guys back to prevent the deeper routes from being open.
Daboll did not respond with a way to move the chains. That combined with poor throws and drops resulted in the shit show that we all witnessed.
We did not have a QB on our roster who could have brought us close to victory. This statement also was not to excuse Jones. He looks like crap.
Jones running into the arms of defensive linemen is not "getting to" him.
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It still sounds like more coddling of Jones.
Using an old JFK speech line...
"Ask not what Daniel Jones can do for the team, ask what the team can do for Daniel Jones..."
If Jones is such a "hard worker", it's time for that hard work to manifest in Jones lifting the team. After six long, arduous years.
JFC. I'm so sick of watching this guy plan QB.
Yes x 1 million.
Getting to Jones while only rushing 4
Dropping guys back to prevent the deeper routes from being open.
Daboll did not respond with a way to move the chains. That combined with poor throws and drops resulted in the shit show that we all witnessed.
We did not have a QB on our roster who could have brought us close to victory. This statement also was not to excuse Jones. He looks like crap.
You can gameplan all you want to throw downfield, but you can't force your QB to do it. Guys were open downfield, Jones simply wouldn't pull the trigger.
I'd bench Jones but that's easier said then done after just a single game - but he needs to get control of this situation before it gets out of control. That's on him.
DJ is the biggest issue I don't see improving. But I also see the HC having issues - play calling, lineup decisions - where I understand the narrative.
Coaches regress too. He was VG in 2022 but opponents adjust to coaches just like they do to opposing players.
Daboll needs to get his shit together - two openers of non compete football is on him.
When theres plays left on the field and everybody can see the WRs running free, im not inclined to blame the playcalling.
You can gripe about the screen pass call, but if the score is 28-21 Giants, we arent hyper-focused on that. If the QB converts a 3rd and 1 designed run, the playcall then isnt bad.
Playcalling becomes a mountain when things are bad and a molehill when things are working, and the reason its not working is the guy throwing the ball simply does not see open receivers, and throws a forkball into the dirt when he happens to find someone.
I am not certain he has the authority to bench DJ. This owner has already shown meddlesomeness on these calls, albeit Judge getting canned by Mara after the backlash from not starting Manning is an extreme.
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It still sounds like more coddling of Jones.
I didn’t phrase it. That’s copied and pasted. It’s coddling of Jones for sure. They know they are moving on from Jones. This feels like strategic narrative about the coaching staff.
He is going to live or die with Jones. If Jones shits the bed for the year they are all going to be gone including the 3 QB's
"Full steam ahead we are unstinkable"
If that is the case, then SHOULDN'T he be setting the stage, particularly as he see's it as "Inevitable"? Isn't that his actual job?
What exactly has the supposed QB whisperer Daboll actually done to improve Jones? I mean, in what way has he coached him to be better? What have his efforts to better Jones consisted of? Beyond pressuring him to throw downfield, I mean. What help has he given him? Before this year, when, by all appearances Jones is already a ruin, what has he done to MAKE HIM BETTER, not simply coping with his perceived limitations? We can fire Jones tomorrow, I don't give a fuck, I'm just asking, what has Daboll done to make him better? Is his rep as a QB developer justified? I'm not seeing any evidence of it here in NY.
I also don't see him having the team ready the last 2 years to start the season. I've seen him call plays for a total of 1 game in 3 years, and it wasn't pretty.
Before that, I haven't seen great game management out of him, or clock management for that matter. I haven't seen his staffs do anything special to develop anyone, really.
Schoen doesn't look like anything special, his roster composition while not from hell, hasn't been impressive. I don't know I'd call him a failure but I certainly wouldn't call him a success.
Jones we move on from, Daboll and Schoen I can take or leave, take for the simple reason that as mediocre as they are ( and that's being kind) they will propbably be better as they get experience, and honestly in 3 years say, they will probably be as good as whatever we would have in 3 years if we fired them now and hired new GM/ HC combo. So while not a fan of the duo, I don't reeally feel confident firing them and re-rolling gives us much better odds than letting the pair go through the growing pains and development they need to to ever be good, because they aren't now. The difference is Jones is toast, and the odds of him becoming anything are slim to none, whereas both Schoen and daboll will get better with experience, however incrementally that may be.
Throw Mara in too. Whatever it is he thinks he does or is needed for, he needs to get better at it.
He needs to study some film or some shit, cuz this ain't getting it done, and like I always say, in the end this is all at his feet, on his doorstep. He did this. He needs to expand his skillset as a CEO and president beyond excelling at shifting blame.
If John Mara is going to insist on remaining at the Helm, he needs to do what HE has to do to start getting more wins for this franchise, because that's what they need and THAT is his job. They have a fucking PR department. He don't need to be doing that shit to make us a winner.
If he wants a culture of character, and he sees that is his job, then he needs to do a better job of building that team, cause these guys roll over like dogs way to often, and I'll be damned if that is the Giants way. Maybe johm ought to stand up and take the fucking hit once in awhile like he wants everyone else to. That might be a fucking example I could get behind.
Own your shit, Mr. Mara. Set the exammple.
They will be HC #6 and GM #4 since the Nephew was hired as a part of the player personnel department reporting to his uncle Chris Mara. The nephew Tim McDonnell, according to John Mara, has become "probably the most respected guy we have in this building. The coaches, front office staff, the general manager go to him and ask his advice on players because he is a good evaluator. He's worked his way up from the bottom and he's earned his stripes. He does not have any authority here."
Seriously read that quote. He's part of the ownership family but he has no authority. Sure John.
Dan Duggan on Jan 18, 2022 wrote an article for the Athletic that had this headline.
‘This place is . . . messed up’: Under Maras’ hands-on ownership, Giants slide from model franchise to dysfunction
Mara said last week that the general manager and head coach make all of the personnel decisions. A former employee called Mara “the final gavel,” and the owner said he approves “99.99 percent” of decisions, with his only objections occurring “if there’s a conduct issue.”
“No decision is ever really finalized without asking John, ‘You OK with this?'” a former front-office employee said. “Does he tell people how to scout? No. But he’s always involved.”
“It’s hard to have confidence in anything the organization is doing,” said Chris Canty, who played defensive line for the Giants from 2009 to 2012. “The reality is this team has been really, really bad. But once the organization recognizes that they are dysfunctional, I think that’s the beginning of when they can get things turned around.”
Less than 3 years later after being shamed into finally going outside of their tiny Mara circle trust for a new GM and HC after the 1st game of their 3rd season the back channel Mara sycophants are chumming the water and getting ready to throw them both to the sharks.
The call is coming from inside the house. The fish rots from the head not the tail. Throw in your own cliche. Nothing is going to change. This is what being a Giants fan is going to be for the foreseeable future.
Why is this man smiling? - ( New Window )
“At last, the Giants have installed an ‘ability’ concept and abandoned the ‘family’ concept,” wrote the New York Times.
Young blocked Chris’ ascension to head of player personnel — “We can’t have any fire-proof heads of player personnel,” Young said, according to Accorsi’s biography.
Considering he is one of the three people conducting GM interviews, along with John Mara and Steve Tisch, Chris Mara has a hand in hiring the person he will report to.
Chris Mara has never reported to Joe Schoen. There was so much heat on the Mara Bros from articles like this one and the even more in depth one on golongtd.com that they changed Chris Mara's title from senior vice president of player personnel to senior personnel executive, board director. Coincidentally at the same time Tim McDonnell's title changed from co-director of player personnel to director of player personnel.
The Giant's "Board" consists of 6 people.
John Mara
Chris Mara
Susan Mara McDonnell (Tim's mother)
Steve Tisch
Jonathan Tisch
Laurie Tisch
All of them are owners and each family owns exactly 50%. The only sports franchise in the US 50/50 owned. The NFL now has a rule that will never allow it again. Anyone see a problem here that hiring a new GM and HC is going to solve?
It's not ideal, but at least it's transparent.
It does show you how much power the Maras have though. They've been viewed more positively than Schoen by a lot of people after HK. Tim McDonnell complimented for asking about the offensive identity.
This is all shaping up to be Mara vs Schoen. That won't end well for Schoen.