for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

NFL Contract Negotiator Not Thrilled With The Giants

BlueVinnie : 9/12/2024 2:58 pm
In an article in The Athletic regarding QB contracts, an unnamed negotiator was not too happy with the Giants over the Daniel Jones contract.

“When people weren’t willing to make Daniel Jones play it out, that is when the world exploded,” a contract negotiator from an NFL team said. “We are not even talking Tua, who had huge production. We are talking Daniel Freaking Jones.”

Why were NYG leadership/ownership probably the only professionals who couldn't see what a mistake that was. I don't but the "if not Jones, who" defense. Even in Jones' "good" year in 2022 - he wasn't all that good. I would have rather been stuck with a bargain basement free agent for a year or two while they concentrated on building the rest of the team and finding our future starter. Hopefully we are not stuck with the albatross that is DJ for both this year and next.
Link - ( New Window )
it's a bad contract  
KDavies : 9/12/2024 3:02 pm : link
but a weird thing for other teams to give a shit about. QB salaries were going to skyrocket regardless of whether Daniel Jones got that contract or not. And Watson's contract is far worse.
Schoen’s biggest mistake was not  
ajr2456 : 9/12/2024 3:03 pm : link
Sending Jones out to the market to find a better deal. There wasn’t one out there.
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/12/2024 3:03 pm : link
‘Not too happy with the Giants over the Daniel Jones contract.’

Take a # pal.
I don't have a subscription to read it  
Mike from SI : 9/12/2024 3:06 pm : link
but I think the Deshaun Watson contract/compensation was worse at the time, worse now, and pretty much will always be worse unless Watson magically turns his play around and the recent allegations turn out to be bull****.

RE: …  
Giantfan in skinland : 9/12/2024 3:07 pm : link
In comment 16606826 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
‘Not too happy with the Giants over the Daniel Jones contract.’

Take a # pal.


Lol.
RE: it's a bad contract  
Eric on Li : 9/12/2024 3:07 pm : link
In comment 16606823 KDavies said:
Quote:
but a weird thing for other teams to give a shit about. QB salaries were going to skyrocket regardless of whether Daniel Jones got that contract or not. And Watson's contract is far worse.


yeah i mean i fail to see how that had any impact. lamar and hurts and herbert and all those guys were clearly able to show that kyler and watson at 46m, with bigger guarantees, were what they had a right to exceed. and that's what they did. all this year's guys extended off those deals.
I suspect yuou will see more and more  
jvm52106 : 9/12/2024 3:08 pm : link
of this, especially if behind the scenes the Mara's are looking at Bill Belichick as a possible answer. Regardless, it begins to grease the skids for a change if needed.

Not saying I agree or that is what I would do but just commenting on the timing and possible reasons why..
RE: Schoen’s biggest mistake was not  
Eli2020 : 9/12/2024 3:11 pm : link
In comment 16606825 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Sending Jones out to the market to find a better deal. There wasn’t one out there.


I think he would've gone to the Panthers. They may be more incompetent than the Giants.
Ha, what an a$$hole.  
section125 : 9/12/2024 3:11 pm : link
Contracts exploded because of Jones? Guy like that shouldn't be negotiating a dog food contract.
Watson's contract is the one that got out of hand and there were some before that. Jones' contract is mid-level.

It was bad because Jones is bad. But starting QBs in the NFL get paid, like it or not.
RE: Schoen’s biggest mistake was not  
bw in dc : 9/12/2024 3:12 pm : link
In comment 16606825 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Sending Jones out to the market to find a better deal. There wasn’t one out there.


Sending Team Jones to the market was absolutely the right move.

There may have been some demand, but it was soft at best. I really wish there was a time machine to test that. But you were on this from the get-go.

I've written this so much that I have carpal tunnel syndrome, but the transition tag was the move. And I don't care if the player would have felt slighted. BFD. Welcome to the business side of the NFL. So, go out and kill it the following year...
okay so this is like blaming cancer on Daniel Jones  
Dinger : 9/12/2024 3:17 pm : link
Did this 'unknown Negotiator(LOL what joke)' mention the absolute anvil that is the Deshaun Watsons contract?! I think the general take when they signed Jones was, ok at the worst we are out in two years. I guess the Cousins contract isn't bad either. I know all the genius' here on BBI KNEW the DJ contract was horrible, but I think half of them was screaming at us to Watson and more than half wanted Russ to cook. Schoen did a decent job of hedging for the unknowns he was facing. DJ is done after this season and I think the 'albatross' that is his contract, worst case is he's injured and we have 23mm cap hit. We'll be picking high again in that case, we can trade some other players and load up in the draft come 2025 and on. Were there other plans yes. Were there guaranteed better plans? I dont think there were any.
RE: RE: Schoen’s biggest mistake was not  
ajr2456 : 9/12/2024 3:23 pm : link
In comment 16606841 Eli2020 said:
Quote:
In comment 16606825 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Sending Jones out to the market to find a better deal. There wasn’t one out there.



I think he would've gone to the Panthers. They may be more incompetent than the Giants.


Why would the Panthers have signed Jones with the #2?
RE: it's a bad contract  
HomerJones45 : 9/12/2024 3:23 pm : link
In comment 16606823 KDavies said:
Quote:
but a weird thing for other teams to give a shit about. QB salaries were going to skyrocket regardless of whether Daniel Jones got that contract or not. And Watson's contract is far worse.
Take a look at Watson's production his last 3 years in Houston. There is not one team that wouldn't have tried to lock that up long term.

You can bet every qb negotiation since Jones signed his gift letter has started with "Daniel Jones got $40 million a year; my guy is way better so let's start the negotiations at $60 per year."

Schoen and Daboll are going to ride Jones praying for a miracle because if Jones continues to shit the bed, neither of them is ever getting back in the positions of GM and HC.
RE: RE: Schoen’s biggest mistake was not  
HomerJones45 : 9/12/2024 3:26 pm : link
In comment 16606846 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16606825 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Sending Jones out to the market to find a better deal. There wasn’t one out there.



Sending Team Jones to the market was absolutely the right move.

There may have been some demand, but it was soft at best. I really wish there was a time machine to test that. But you were on this from the get-go.

I've written this so much that I have carpal tunnel syndrome, but the transition tag was the move. And I don't care if the player would have felt slighted. BFD. Welcome to the business side of the NFL. So, go out and kill it the following year...
Yep. If he signed somewhere else. who cared. If he got an offer, which would not have been close to $40 million a year, you can pay more if you want. Giving into his demands was idiotic. I am sure his agents were the most surprised people on the planet.
RE: Schoen’s biggest mistake was not  
Dinger : 9/12/2024 3:28 pm : link
In comment 16606825 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Sending Jones out to the market to find a better deal. There wasn’t one out there.

I understand your point here, BUT if there's a team like the Browns that would sign the Watson contract and a team like the falcons to do the cousins contract, there's definitely a team out there that would have paid DJ(a playoff winning mobile QB /s). And while right now that seems like it would have been best, at the time we were coming off our first playoff victory in close to a decade, the stadium was filled with chants for DJ and finding a QB to 'take the team to the next level' was, I'm sure, not an easy task. If you think letting him walk and drafting a QB wouldn't have driven at least half the fan base wild I think you're off. We were drafting later, our subsequent OL would have destroyed any rookie and the HC and GM would have been MORE crucified.
Watson and Cousins at the time of their deals  
ajr2456 : 9/12/2024 3:35 pm : link
Had a track record of production that was 100x better than Jones.


Who that offseason was paying Jones $40 million?
Was there anybody that wasn't absolutely STUNNED  
56goat : 9/12/2024 3:36 pm : link
when DJ got 4 - $160 mil? I could see the pressure to sign DJ, but my reaction was "WTF" when 4 - $160 came out. Couldn't see any other team going anywhere close to those numbers.
Daniel Jones was 1-1 in the playoffs  
ajr2456 : 9/12/2024 3:37 pm : link
Let’s not act like he went on a Super Bowl run.

Not an easy task? Schoen was part of a front office that did that same exact thing with Tyrod Taylor. They even traded their premier left tackle so they can get it done.

What’s going to be worse than the fan reaction if they would have let Jones walk, is the fan reaction if the season goes where it’s likely headed
RE: okay so this is like blaming cancer on Daniel Jones  
BlueVinnie : 9/12/2024 3:55 pm : link
In comment 16606858 Dinger said:
Quote:
Did this 'unknown Negotiator(LOL what joke)' mention the absolute anvil that is the Deshaun Watsons contract?! I think the general take when they signed Jones was, ok at the worst we are out in two years. I guess the Cousins contract isn't bad either. I know all the genius' here on BBI KNEW the DJ contract was horrible, but I think half of them was screaming at us to Watson and more than half wanted Russ to cook. Schoen did a decent job of hedging for the unknowns he was facing. DJ is done after this season and I think the 'albatross' that is his contract, worst case is he's injured and we have 23mm cap hit. We'll be picking high again in that case, we can trade some other players and load up in the draft come 2025 and on. Were there other plans yes. Were there guaranteed better plans? I dont think there were any.

The albatross isn't the contract itself, although the contract is bad, it's Jones himself. It's sticking with this guy for 6, possibly 7, years when he is clearly not the answer.
RE: RE: RE: Schoen’s biggest mistake was not  
bw in dc : 9/12/2024 3:58 pm : link
In comment 16606871 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
Yep. If he signed somewhere else. who cared. If he got an offer, which would not have been close to $40 million a year, you can pay more if you want. Giving into his demands was idiotic. I am sure his agents were the most surprised people on the planet.


Team Jones definitely won those negotiations. The smaller win for Schoen getting the off-ramp after 2024.
Give me a break  
Breeze_94 : 9/12/2024 4:11 pm : link
All these talking heads and unnamed sources love to shit on the Giants any chance they get. It’s what happens when you suck. People can’t wait to voice their opinion and say “I told you so” or “i knew they’d be wrong”

Fact of the matter is this regime has still won more playoff games than half of the NFL since they’ve been here.
RE: Schoen’s biggest mistake was not  
HardTruth : 9/12/2024 4:12 pm : link
In comment 16606825 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Sending Jones out to the market to find a better deal. There wasn’t one out there.


People need to remember that if Jones was tagged, the Giants maintained matching rights and if they let him walk the team would cough up TWO 1st rd picks for him

The Giants should have begged someone to do this

Of course there was absolutely zero risk to letting him him test market

It’s absolutely inexcusable that they signed him to 4/160 and tagged Saquon
RE: Give me a break  
bw in dc : 9/12/2024 4:14 pm : link
In comment 16606940 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
All these talking heads and unnamed sources love to shit on the Giants any chance they get. It’s what happens when you suck. People can’t wait to voice their opinion and say “I told you so” or “i knew they’d be wrong”

Fact of the matter is this regime has still won more playoff games than half of the NFL since they’ve been here.


So, are you suggesting this regime is on solid ground and can absorb another down year?
Enough of accepting horseshit quotes from any asshole  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/12/2024 4:16 pm : link
willing to run their mouths. Jones guarantees were the least of any quarterback under the age of 30 aside from Baker Mayfield. (Mayfield, BTW, was on four different teams in a span of 20 months.) Tua’s guarantees are more than the total value of Daniel Jones entire contract. The idea that someone would draw a line from what’s basically a two year deal to these massive guarantees is absurd.
RE: Give me a break  
shockeyisthebest8056 : 9/12/2024 4:16 pm : link
In comment 16606940 Breeze_94 said:
Quote:
All these talking heads and unnamed sources love to shit on the Giants any chance they get. It’s what happens when you suck. People can’t wait to voice their opinion and say “I told you so” or “i knew they’d be wrong”

Fact of the matter is this regime has still won more playoff games than half of the NFL since they’ve been here.


Bingo.
The Jones  
darren in pdx : 9/12/2024 4:19 pm : link
contract is bad for the Giants but don't see how it moved the needle for the rest of the NFL. Much better QBs got much higher deals as expected, and then there was the Watson and Wilson deals..
so the Giants wanted players at all other positions to prove the  
kelly : 9/12/2024 4:22 pm : link
contract they got with the exception of Jones.

Am I the only one seeing this?

Schoen and Dabs may have wanted to sign Jones but it was Mara That the Jones agents were effectively betting on to cave for their demands. Mara was the one who loved Jones and I am would bet that he ultimately was the one who met the agent demands.

So yes, Dabs and Schoen wanted Jones but not at the price paid, that is on Mara.
RE: The Jones  
BH28 : 9/12/2024 4:39 pm : link
In comment 16606960 darren in pdx said:
Quote:
contract is bad for the Giants but don't see how it moved the needle for the rest of the NFL. Much better QBs got much higher deals as expected, and then there was the Watson and Wilson deals..


It sets a floor for a comp. Mediocre QBs who have better production than Jones will use the contract as a starting point. It would almost be insulting to pay a guy like Trevor Lawrence less than Jones.
RE: RE: Give me a break  
BlueVinnie : 9/12/2024 4:44 pm : link
In comment 16606951 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
In comment 16606940 Breeze_94 said:


Quote:


All these talking heads and unnamed sources love to shit on the Giants any chance they get. It’s what happens when you suck. People can’t wait to voice their opinion and say “I told you so” or “i knew they’d be wrong”

Fact of the matter is this regime has still won more playoff games than half of the NFL since they’ve been here.



Bingo.

Bingo?
They've won one playoff game in the last 13 years and only appeared in the playoffs 2 of those last 13 years. I don't think that makes many fans yell bingo.
Go back and read threads leading up to the deal  
Sean : 9/12/2024 4:47 pm : link
Most people speculated it would be around $35M to $37.5M per year. The only posters I can point out are Brett who was against it from the start and bw who wanted the transition tag. I'm sure there are others. I would have preferred Schoen have Jones test the market, but there is definitely some revisionist history with this deal.

Schoen was even complimented for the exit ramp after 2024.

It's been a fucking disaster since, but this does feel like piling on. Where is the anger towards the sexual predator with a fully guaranteed deal? I get he was more productive, but come on.

QBs got overpaid before and they'll get overpaid after. The league will survive off a 2 year $82M guaranteed deal for Jones.
RE: it's a bad contract  
LTIsTheGreatest : 9/12/2024 4:48 pm : link
In comment 16606823 KDavies said:
Quote:
but a weird thing for other teams to give a shit about. QB salaries were going to skyrocket regardless of whether Daniel Jones got that contract or not. And Watson's contract is far worse.


It is a bad contract, but luckily they can get out of it after this year.
And didn't Mayfield just sign for less?  
Sean : 9/12/2024 4:48 pm : link
This is just let's grab a ticket and shit on NYG/Jones.
RE: RE: Schoen’s biggest mistake was not  
giantstock : 9/12/2024 7:58 pm : link
In comment 16606876 Dinger said:
Quote:
In comment 16606825 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


Sending Jones out to the market to find a better deal. There wasn’t one out there.


I understand your point here, BUT if there's a team like the Browns that would sign the Watson contract and a team like the falcons to do the cousins contract, there's definitely a team out there that would have paid DJ(a playoff winning mobile QB /s). And while right now that seems like it would have been best, at the time we were coming off our first playoff victory in close to a decade, the stadium was filled with chants for DJ and finding a QB to 'take the team to the next level' was, I'm sure, not an easy task. If you think letting him walk and drafting a QB wouldn't have driven at least half the fan base wild I think you're off. We were drafting later, our subsequent OL would have destroyed any rookie and the HC and GM would have been MORE crucified.


IMO "the negotiator" is a fraud. To suggest Jones drove up the QB market for the super QB's is beyond silly.

With that said imo your read of if DJ were to not have been signed and the fan reaction is way overstated. In this instance it was also obvious of his health. They had an out.

And since when is it god for ANY business to make ignorant decisions based on its fan base reaction? If that is their thinking then the truly are completely ignorant.

Everyone knew that the QB class coming up was strong. They couldn't let this type of info along with the injury concerns "leak?" All for one playoff win and then all the humiliation they had vs teams like Philly and Dallas?
RE: Enough of accepting horseshit quotes from any asshole  
giantstock : 9/12/2024 8:04 pm : link
In comment 16606950 shockeyisthebest8056 said:
Quote:
willing to run their mouths. Jones guarantees were the least of any quarterback under the age of 30 aside from Baker Mayfield. (Mayfield, BTW, was on four different teams in a span of 20 months.) Tua’s guarantees are more than the total value of Daniel Jones entire contract. The idea that someone would draw a line from what’s basically a two year deal to these massive guarantees is absurd.


And while you are right that 2022 should be applauded but its so sad for fans such as yourself. The Giants have been so awful other than teh 1 year that you are content with being "half-better" becasue of one win despite the very next game a total embarrassment. I find it pretty pathetic. The goal shouldn't be to be content with being better than the other half. We should strive to be better than much much more than half.
RE: Go back and read threads leading up to the deal  
The Mike : 9/12/2024 8:44 pm : link
In comment 16607000 Sean said:
Quote:
Most people speculated it would be around $35M to $37.5M per year. The only posters I can point out are Brett who was against it from the start and bw who wanted the transition tag. I'm sure there are others. I would have preferred Schoen have Jones test the market, but there is definitely some revisionist history with this deal.

Schoen was even complimented for the exit ramp after 2024.

It's been a fucking disaster since, but this does feel like piling on. Where is the anger towards the sexual predator with a fully guaranteed deal? I get he was more productive, but come on.

QBs got overpaid before and they'll get overpaid after. The league will survive off a 2 year $82M guaranteed deal for Jones.


You are right, most folks on BBI were fine with the contract. You and I were decidedly more pessimistic. The delusional point of view that this management group knows best is hopefully blown to oblivion now...
BBI Ranks the DJ Contract - ( New Window )
I’m in the camp that agrees it’s a bad contract  
mfsd : 9/12/2024 8:51 pm : link
But fuck all these people suddenly coming out of the wood work to say I told you so

There are plenty of posters here who’ve been right on this all along, and I give them full credit to sticking to their guns about Jones, even when many (including me early on) defended the QB and the contract

Spare me these Johnny-come-lately big mouths. Especially the anonymous ones
Homer  
uconngiant : 9/12/2024 9:44 pm : link
Watson if you remember had many issues and has another one now why does no one understand the contract with everything being guaranteed
The Mike  
Sean : 9/12/2024 9:47 pm : link
Thanks for sharing that. Very interesting read. You nailed it in real time.

My biggest issue with Schoen/Daboll is doubling down on Jones again in 2024. When Jones was signed, I felt he was a package deal with Barkley. Letting Barkley go and committing to Jones I always felt would be a disaster for the offense. Through one game, it's even worse than I thought.

Schoen is not a cutthroat general manager. Seeing all the angst he had on HK was troubling. Jones needs all the help he can get. He should have franchised Barkley again. Jones without Barkley is a disaster.

Barkley was always more responsible for 2022 than Jones was. The players knew it too.
Quite the media push against Jones this week  
JonC : 9/12/2024 9:50 pm : link
He's gonna get a bunch of people fired.
The article isn't about  
Scooter185 : 9/12/2024 9:50 pm : link
The top guys, but paying mid tier guys large money.

And everyone crying about anonymous quotes, that's how journalism works. Unless you just don't want people to ever talk besides platitudes.
" Schoen's biggest mistak, Schoens's biggest mistake blah blah blah".  
Red Right Hand : 9/12/2024 10:08 pm : link
Schoen's biggest mistake was not giving Jones the 5th year as soon as he walked in the door. We would have had Jones for 10 mil last year and he'd be gone now and we'd be 70 mil in the black and be off the hoo for anything going forward.k.

For the millionth time, his biggest mistake was not giving the 5th year option. EVERYTHING else is downstream of that. Everything.
RE: The Mike  
The Mike : 9/12/2024 10:28 pm : link
In comment 16607284 Sean said:
Quote:
Thanks for sharing that. Very interesting read. You nailed it in real time.

My biggest issue with Schoen/Daboll is doubling down on Jones again in 2024. When Jones was signed, I felt he was a package deal with Barkley. Letting Barkley go and committing to Jones I always felt would be a disaster for the offense. Through one game, it's even worse than I thought.

Schoen is not a cutthroat general manager. Seeing all the angst he had on HK was troubling. Jones needs all the help he can get. He should have franchised Barkley again. Jones without Barkley is a disaster. Your point about the players in the locker room is arguably the biggest part of the problem. Paying

Barkley was always more responsible for 2022 than Jones was. The players knew it too.


Very true. The Barkley mistake was drafting him. But once he was here, he was a valuable asset for this franchise. No question he was the primary driver of the 2022 success. As this plays out in the coming months, the HardKnocks time capsule will unfortunately be merciless on Schoen's reputation.

As to DJ, I find myself thinking that even I may have been optimistic in thinking his comps are Darnold, Trubisky and Mariota. Assuming he continues to perform as he did on Sunday, it may ultimately be that this group is his ceiling. He is probably more accurately in the Osweiler and Glennon comp group. Which makes the fact that he is the sixth highest cap hit this year beyond belief.

And you are right - the biggest problem with all of this is how it is playing out in the locker room.
Back to the Corner