I know how much he loves the Giants organzation, but he will no doubt want alot of power and I just dont see the Giants willing to give one person that much authority over the operation
out of personnel department. You cant have unaccountable people making those decisions.
That is accurate, but will also never happen. The Maras see them as part of the solution, not the problem.
And to be honest none of us know if those guys are any good at what they do. But the point you made is the reason they need to go - they are not accountable to anyone and their continued employment is not contingent on their performance, only their names.
Let's face it, this team has been plugging holes for the better part of the last two decades. It is time to commit to a plan instead of trying to plus holes and hope to sneak into the playoffs now and again when everything breaks right for you.
Offensively, the plan is crystal clear. Build a strong pass protecting offensive line and a stable of pass catchers who can catch and run.
If you re-watch the pass plays from the Vikings game, read the reviews, and read the grading outlets -- they did a good job pass protecting. That part of the plan is working out.
If you apply that same rubric to the receivers, they looked and graded to be open as well. That part of the plan appears capable of working.
They don't need to put their head in the sand and wait for a Mahomes. They just need someone who isn't arguably the very worst starter in the league at QB. All Pass Plays - ( New Window )
I just don't get what scenario people are envisioning
with Belichick. Do you think he's going to coach for 5 years?
At his age, I see something like 2 years. Maybe he does a good job coaching and we are a fundamentally sound team and we have 2 seasons that are like 8-9 and 9-8. The he retires and we start over again. Something like this seems to be by far the most likely outcome.
here is the OL in detroit by snaps played in campbell's first season there.
Sewell was campbell's first draft pick in his rookie season. picked 7th overall.
jonah jackson was a 3rd round pick from 2020 he inheritted. he was picked 75th overall so lower than both JMS/Ezeudu and not by campbell.
vaitai had been a UFA signing from Philly.
yes that is 3rd year Evan Brown who was a nyg UDFA signing under Gettleman.
and yes that is 2024 giants training camp cyclist matt nelson who stepped in for half the season to play T when Decker was injured.
jackson, vaitai, and brown have all moved on and he replaced them with draft picks and zeitler. yes inheriting decker/ragnow was a big help, as was their staying healthier in future seasons, but this nyg regime and the next will inherit their own version of at least decker with thomas.
RE: I just don't get what scenario people are envisioning
with Belichick. Do you think he's going to coach for 5 years?
At his age, I see something like 2 years. Maybe he does a good job coaching and we are a fundamentally sound team and we have 2 seasons that are like 8-9 and 9-8. The he retires and we start over again. Something like this seems to be by far the most likely outcome.
how does parcells dallas work for you as a model?
in the 3 years prior to parcells, they went 15-33.
in the 4 years he coached them, they went 34-30 with 3 winning seasons.
but in those 4 years he entirely rebuild their physicality, especially on the OL, and that has now been their calling card as a franchise for almost 2 full decades. will mcclays first year as a pro scout for dallas was the year before parcells got there. think those 4 years he was there with him didnt help inform how well he's continue to build their roster since? he's been their defacto gm since 2016/2017 and before that was their director of both pro/amateur scouting as they were drafting guys like martin, fredrick, lawrence, etc.
even with a crappy head coach like wade phillips they won 13 games the year after parcells left because he had built a foundation over his 4 years there with ware, witten, romo, the OL, etc. he gave them a blueprint that to their credit they've continued to copy effectively.
My point isn't Detroit was stagnant, my point is the group that is arguably the best unit in the NFL took talent acquisition across many years, including a boomerang Graham Glasgow, to develop.
Hopefully the Giants are entering the stage Detroit was in 2021. A unit that had aspirations to be in the top 3rd and has a few cornerstone players already there.
My point isn't Detroit was stagnant, my point is the group that is arguably the best unit in the NFL took talent acquisition across many years, including a boomerang Graham Glasgow, to develop.
Hopefully the Giants are entering the stage Detroit was in 2021. A unit that had aspirations to be in the top 3rd and has a few cornerstone players already there.
Adding a cerebral QB doesn’t hurt either
RE: RE: I just don't get what scenario people are envisioning
My point isn't Detroit was stagnant, my point is the group that is arguably the best unit in the NFL took talent acquisition across many years, including a boomerang Graham Glasgow, to develop.
Hopefully the Giants are entering the stage Detroit was in 2021. A unit that had aspirations to be in the top 3rd and has a few cornerstone players already there.
they had 3.5 new starters in dan campbell's first year because of injuries to decker and ragnow.
of course they weren't all rookies, some of them had been in the NFL for a long time. That is scouting, development, coaching. campbell's playing career was built entirely on blocking and he emphasized OL from day 1 getting his first pick right with Sewell.
he didnt even go out and hire a fancy OL coach, he kept hank fraley from the prior staff in just his 2nd year as OL coach.
each year they lost 1-2 starters to FA or upgraded those positions. this past year when they lost jonah jackson they replaced him with zeitler. glasgow is on a pretty modest glowinski sized contract. campbell brought a physical play with your hair on fire mindset and emphasis from day 1, and wasnt afraid to draft lower positional value players who fit that.
RE: I just don't get what scenario people are envisioning
with Belichick. Do you think he's going to coach for 5 years?
At his age, I see something like 2 years. Maybe he does a good job coaching and we are a fundamentally sound team and we have 2 seasons that are like 8-9 and 9-8. The he retires and we start over again. Something like this seems to be by far the most likely outcome.
100%.
I've written it a half dozen times the last several days. BB is chasing Shula and another Lombardi at this point. It's a chase for more history. Coming here doesn't improve those chances.
Maybe BB is feeling sentimental and magnanimous and I'm wrong.
But he seems like a super competitive guy itching to win big without Brady. And put a fork in that debate.
RE: RE: RE: I just don't get what scenario people are envisioning
The Dallas that hasn't so much as played in a conference title game? That Dallas?
Yes exactly that dallas. If Jerry Jones hadnt run off Parcells they probably would have been in the conference title game in 2008 instead of nyg. Or if he'd replaced him with good coaches instead of a bunch of mediocre's like wade, garrett, mccarthy.
but hey tell yourself whatever you want, if you want to equate this franchise being the league's doormat for the last decade and dallas avg'ing like 10 wins a season and winning the division every other year just because they havent figured it out in the postseason by all means.
"sure my honda is a beat up piece of junk that breaks down every week but let's not act like that BMW over there is better because it's definitely not a Rolls Royce"
It's not a random fluke that no one Belichick's age has ever been an NFL head coach, other than Romeo Crennel's brief stint as an interim HC. It's an exceptionally demanding job that requires an incredible level of energy and time.
Acknowledging biological reality is a good thing. Theoretically, some kind of director of football ops would make sense....except that his performance as defacto GM of the Patriots since Brady's departure was pretty bad.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I just don't get what scenario people are envisioning
"sure my honda is a beat up piece of junk that breaks down every week but let's not act like that BMW over there is better because it's definitely not a Rolls Royce"
Beat that strawman, baby! It won't try that again!
If you can point out to me where I said that I'd rather be the Giants of recent vintage than the Cowboys of recent vintage, I will gladly retract and apologize. I did not say or even imply that.
This discussion is about what the Giants *should* be going forward, what kind of team we would want them to be. If being a good (not great) regular season team and flopping in the playoffs every single year strikes you as an ideal, then more power to you.
RE: RE: I just don't get what scenario people are envisioning
with Belichick. Do you think he's going to coach for 5 years?
At his age, I see something like 2 years. Maybe he does a good job coaching and we are a fundamentally sound team and we have 2 seasons that are like 8-9 and 9-8. The he retires and we start over again. Something like this seems to be by far the most likely outcome.
100%.
I've written it a half dozen times the last several days. BB is chasing Shula and another Lombardi at this point. It's a chase for more history. Coming here doesn't improve those chances.
Maybe BB is feeling sentimental and magnanimous and I'm wrong.
But he seems like a super competitive guy itching to win big without Brady. And put a fork in that debate.
he is clearly motivated but he just went an offseason getting passed over for how many jobs?
if he gets offered a job with total control on say january 1, before an opportunity like dallas is likely even known to be available or not since they will be in the playoffs, is he passing on it?
if i were john mara id already have him in the tent as a consultant. pay him whatever to confidentially give his honest thoughts on the state of the team. he's doing it publicly for ESPN, cant imagine it's a stretch that he'd do it confidentially if asked by an owner/organization he's declared a public fondness for dozens of times. edelman's comments aren't out of nowhere.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: I just don't get what scenario people are envisioning
"sure my honda is a beat up piece of junk that breaks down every week but let's not act like that BMW over there is better because it's definitely not a Rolls Royce"
Beat that strawman, baby! It won't try that again!
If you can point out to me where I said that I'd rather be the Giants of recent vintage than the Cowboys of recent vintage, I will gladly retract and apologize. I did not say or even imply that.
This discussion is about what the Giants *should* be going forward, what kind of team we would want them to be. If being a good (not great) regular season team and flopping in the playoffs every single year strikes you as an ideal, then more power to you.
the strawman is that there's any way to knowingly build a good regular season team that then flops in the playoffs.
i think building a good team is a good idea whatever else happens after that, and dallas has been building good teams since parcells came in.
what happens to said good teams once they get to the playoffs is likely to come down to whether or not whoever the QB/head coach can win big games. andy reid got fired in philly because he built a lot of good regular season teams that didnt win super bowls. he's 66 years old and id gladly take him as coach for the next decade too.
Based on the early results, the Giants don't need anyone on fire. The offensive line at a minimum took the first step into functional, and presumably with more time and cohesion, will develop further.
You don't need a Dan Campbell character to project the Giants have made some sound investments in the offensive line and the arrow is pointing in the right direction.
But if you want veins popping and dramatic embarrassing failure in the biggest game of one's tenure, maybe the Giants can just give Daboll an energy drink. He's 50% of the way there.
Andy Reid wins Super Bowls now because he has the best QB
I think tberes a lot of randomness in the post season stuff. I don't see anything in the Cowboys roster construction or talent level that would preclude them from doing well in the playoffs.
Dallas has been very good for a long time, they are explosive with big play ability on both sides of the ball. Yes I want that.
I just don't see hiring 73 year old Belichick as the path there. Unless he permanently cleaned out John, Chris, Tim, and whatever other critters are on the way up. If that was the only thing he did, I'd also sign up for that.
who might very well end up being the best QB ever.
and based on your thought process in this thread, you probably would have moved on from him at some point in the 18 seasons before he won with mahomes because he "flopped in the postseason". he only won 1 playoff game in his first 5 years with the chiefs.
and based on your thought process in this thread, you probably would have moved on from him at some point in the 18 seasons before he won with mahomes because he "flopped in the postseason". he only won 1 playoff game in his first 5 years with the chiefs.
A whole bunch of coaches could win Super Bowls with Mahomes. It's not some unique ability of Reid's.
Based on the early results, the Giants don't need anyone on fire. The offensive line at a minimum took the first step into functional, and presumably with more time and cohesion, will develop further.
You don't need a Dan Campbell character to project the Giants have made some sound investments in the offensive line and the arrow is pointing in the right direction.
But if you want veins popping and dramatic embarrassing failure in the biggest game of one's tenure, maybe the Giants can just give Daboll an energy drink. He's 50% of the way there.
another strawman. nobody is talking about regime change because of just the OL.
we are talking about regime change because the team got it's dome caved in at home week 1 by sam freaking darnold, continuing a trend of getting rolled over with almost zero pushback for the full decade post-coughlin. over that period of time they have almost never been the more physical team. OL is only a part of that larger reality.
1. Mara fires coaches after two consecutive bad years (Coughlin had four years because of the 2 super bowls). He bounced from Coughlin to McAdoo to Shurmur to Judge to Daboll. When things went badly with the younger offensive guru in McAdoo he turned to the security blanket of known commodities.
2. Spending on BB would also throw red meat to the disillusioned fan base to generate excitement based on past successes both here and in New England.
3. They are friends and BB would be able to influence Mara to get what he wants, moreso than other owners in the NFL where there may not be the same history
RE: RE: RE: Andy Reid wins Super Bowls now because he has the best QB
and based on your thought process in this thread, you probably would have moved on from him at some point in the 18 seasons before he won with mahomes because he "flopped in the postseason". he only won 1 playoff game in his first 5 years with the chiefs.
A whole bunch of coaches could win Super Bowls with Mahomes. It's not some unique ability of Reid's.
It is a unique ability of Reid's to coach Patrick Mahomes only because he was uniquely the one who traded up to draft him while 9 other teams directly passed on him and 21 others didnt trade up for him (all but 4 with picks higher than the 27th pick reid moved up from).
It is also a unique ability of his to have won games in the regular season at a near 60% clip even without Mahomes.
RE: RE: RE: I just don't get what scenario people are envisioning
he is clearly motivated but he just went an offseason getting passed over for how many jobs?
if he gets offered a job with total control on say january 1, before an opportunity like dallas is likely even known to be available or not since they will be in the playoffs, is he passing on it?
if i were john mara id already have him in the tent as a consultant. pay him whatever to confidentially give his honest thoughts on the state of the team. he's doing it publicly for ESPN, cant imagine it's a stretch that he'd do it confidentially if asked by an owner/organization he's declared a public fondness for dozens of times. edelman's comments aren't out of nowhere.
Well, you are raising another point/question if BB is even hirable at this point based on his age, his last four years in New England, and the quasi-blacking-balling Kraft has been reported to be doing behind the scenes. Hell, it was reported he didn't even finish in the top three finalists for the ATL job.
So, while there may be limited demand based on all those factors, I'm not convinced BB will just accept any job at the point. Again, my gut tells me he wants the best chance to win as soon as possible.
Which is why he was into the ATL job. They have a lot of pieces in place and play in one of the weaker divisions.
At this point, his best chance is with a team that is close, so that team doesn't have to worry about him impacting personnel. BB comes in and focuses on culture, discipline, and installing his programs.
Your focus should be on adding value to discussions which is rare and not telling people what to do. Those two players were from the last regime but the point I made was not about that and much deeper. Investment means little without productive results. You should understand this.
Your focus should be on adding value to discussions which is rare and not telling people what to do. Those two players were from the last regime but the point I made was not about that and much deeper. Investment means little without productive results. You should understand this.
You should try adding value and not telling people what to do.
The current regime has invested two top 10 picks, a second rounder, and significant money in both the defensive and offensive lines.
RE: RE: RE: RE: I just don't get what scenario people are envisioning
he is clearly motivated but he just went an offseason getting passed over for how many jobs?
if he gets offered a job with total control on say january 1, before an opportunity like dallas is likely even known to be available or not since they will be in the playoffs, is he passing on it?
if i were john mara id already have him in the tent as a consultant. pay him whatever to confidentially give his honest thoughts on the state of the team. he's doing it publicly for ESPN, cant imagine it's a stretch that he'd do it confidentially if asked by an owner/organization he's declared a public fondness for dozens of times. edelman's comments aren't out of nowhere.
Well, you are raising another point/question if BB is even hirable at this point based on his age, his last four years in New England, and the quasi-blacking-balling Kraft has been reported to be doing behind the scenes. Hell, it was reported he didn't even finish in the top three finalists for the ATL job.
So, while there may be limited demand based on all those factors, I'm not convinced BB will just accept any job at the point. Again, my gut tells me he wants the best chance to win as soon as possible.
Which is why he was into the ATL job. They have a lot of pieces in place and play in one of the weaker divisions.
At this point, his best chance is with a team that is close, so that team doesn't have to worry about him impacting personnel. BB comes in and focuses on culture, discipline, and installing his programs.
he went full tilt for the ATL job and i disagree that they had a lot of pieces. they had the 8th pick and obviously didnt have cousins yet so qb was a complete unknown. they had a few recent high draft picks (bijan, london, pitts) but not a ton else. i think he has since even been critical of the extension they gave Terrell.
Based on the early results, the Giants don't need anyone on fire. The offensive line at a minimum took the first step into functional, and presumably with more time and cohesion, will develop further.
You don't need a Dan Campbell character to project the Giants have made some sound investments in the offensive line and the arrow is pointing in the right direction.
But if you want veins popping and dramatic embarrassing failure in the biggest game of one's tenure, maybe the Giants can just give Daboll an energy drink. He's 50% of the way there.
another strawman. nobody is talking about regime change because of just the OL.
we are talking about regime change because the team got it's dome caved in at home week 1 by sam freaking darnold, continuing a trend of getting rolled over with almost zero pushback for the full decade post-coughlin. over that period of time they have almost never been the more physical team. OL is only a part of that larger reality.
I'm only discussing the offensive line dip shit.
You feel free to get yourself all revved up about Belichick. I'm sure it will age as well as your previous semi-annual over reactions. It can sit neatly next to demand for Carr and how dangerous Simmons will be as a pass rusher.
If you actually read my post I answered that part you are questioning. I just told you not to tell me what to do. I don't tell you what to do but I have told you that you made a dumb or stupid post. I was just being honest.
Based on the early results, the Giants don't need anyone on fire. The offensive line at a minimum took the first step into functional, and presumably with more time and cohesion, will develop further.
You don't need a Dan Campbell character to project the Giants have made some sound investments in the offensive line and the arrow is pointing in the right direction.
But if you want veins popping and dramatic embarrassing failure in the biggest game of one's tenure, maybe the Giants can just give Daboll an energy drink. He's 50% of the way there.
another strawman. nobody is talking about regime change because of just the OL.
we are talking about regime change because the team got it's dome caved in at home week 1 by sam freaking darnold, continuing a trend of getting rolled over with almost zero pushback for the full decade post-coughlin. over that period of time they have almost never been the more physical team. OL is only a part of that larger reality.
I'm only discussing the offensive line dip shit.
You feel free to get yourself all revved up about Belichick. I'm sure it will age as well as your previous semi-annual over reactions. It can sit neatly next to demand for Carr and how dangerous Simmons will be as a pass rusher.
so go make an OL thread dip shit. last i checked this thread was about Belichick so maybe don't enter if it's going to so trigger you?
btw the simmons thread i made last year that is so etched in your mind was 3.5 months before the gm of this franchise apparently agreed with the idea bc he then actually traded for him. and while they didnt use him pass rushing so much he actually did rate better than most of the rest of the defense in the mostly coverage role they put him in, which is presumably why they resigned him and gave him a raise.
though to be clear at this point having my ideas endorsed by joe schoen probably rates even lower than the fastidious memory of bbi's resident scorekeeper in terms of noteworthy achievements.
They were outlining the head coaching hires since Coughlin. Man, it's depressing.
Ben McAdoo
Pat Shurmur
Joe Judge
Simmons called it the trifecta. None of them had any business being a head coach. Shurmur and Judge both in college now. Daboll probably gets fired next.
This is the NY Giants. Think about how bad these recent hires are.
Mike in Ohio and I were having an exchange about the Lions line. You're more than welcome to exhibit the moderate amount of discernment to read around comments to understand the context. Given your pointed and unsolicited response to that line of discussion, I'll assume you actually kind of got that.
As far as gate keeping, I can only aspire to your heights. You don't solicit a nickname like Receipts on Li without putting in the work. So bravo.
This week the answer is Belichick, I can only guess what will get your worked up into a chart on Monday.
Mike in Ohio and I were having an exchange about the Lions line. You're more than welcome to exhibit the moderate amount of discernment to read around comments to understand the context. Given your pointed and unsolicited response to that line of discussion, I'll assume you actually kind of got that.
As far as gate keeping, I can only aspire to your heights. You don't solicit a nickname like Receipts on Li without putting in the work. So bravo.
This week the answer is Belichick, I can only guess what will get your worked up into a chart on Monday.
mike in ohio's comment re Campbell came directly off the discussion me and go terps had yesterday and his conclusion was the same as both of ours was - which was pro-BB. my comment agreeing with the point Mike brought up re Campbell was perfectly in context with the thread as evidenced by the fact that I myself had also brought him up prior, and here are the receipts on li for you.
i agree w/ most of that but it's not really a novel approach its basically the buffalo approach. or vrabel. or belichick. or harbaugh.
if we ran back the heavy handed joe judge intro presser that plan would fit his vision, he just had no idea how to get there beyond talk.
it's smart/tough/dependable, except executed correctly. dan campbell basically.
the giants problem hasnt been that their plans didnt have a lot of that intention, they havent executed it. they've have chosen the wrong leaders. they have only ever been the more physical team on rare occasions post-coughlin.
Agree with the sentiments from GT and Section125 We don't have the front office personnel experience to compete for talent in the modern NFL. The personnel department has been injected with family members of the ownership who never had to prove themselves elsewhere. They are still operating in the 1990s where you find draft a QB and forget about the position until they retire, because the only thing worse than losing is a QB controversy.
No GM we can bring in can work past those handicaps other than BB. The problem is that BB is an incredibly good coach, but a poor talent evaluator. As mentioned, if BB is coaching this team, he is the GM whether he is given that title or not. Nobody is telling him to get out of the draft room or pipe down.
The Giants should be following the model Campbell did in Detroit. If you can't win the battle for offensive innovation in the modern NFL, you change the game and you go the opposite direction. You focus on the Oline and the running game, and you grab a QB to develop and a middling vet in FA to play until he is ready.
I don't love the idea of hiring a 73 year old to take over the operations, but I am going to go the opposite of Bitey's point yesterday - we need a historian not another innovator. This organization is not built for innovation.
i disagreed with your comment below coming off that exactly the same way mike did because both of his posts were exactly right, Detroit didn't pull off some magic unicorn strategy that requires a time machine, Dan Campbell came in and executed with mostly players he inherited. Just as Jim Harbough appears to be doing with LAC without a time machine.
If you actually read my post I answered that part you are questioning. I just told you not to tell me what to do. I don't tell you what to do but I have told you that you made a dumb or stupid post. I was just being honest.
Perhaps best to not follow me around.
Don’t flatter yourself, it’s just dumb to keep non stop yelling about the lines of scrimmage.
Thank you for the forensics on a conversation I literally just participated in Receipts on Li.
It appears that in point-of-fact you were able to read along, and you did understand Mike and I were talking about one isolated aspect of Campbell's team building.
This might blow your mind, but from time-to-time people will participate in tangential conversations, that don't tie to your tedious and repetitive drivel.
I kind of like Receipts on Li, but I'm also inclined to introduce Eric the Splash Play Machine.
They were outlining the head coaching hires since Coughlin. Man, it's depressing.
Ben McAdoo
Pat Shurmur
Joe Judge
Simmons called it the trifecta. None of them had any business being a head coach. Shurmur and Judge both in college now. Daboll probably gets fired next.
This is the NY Giants. Think about how bad these recent hires are.
Shurmur had every right to be a NFL HC. He earned his chance as one of the best OCs in football. Lombardi is a total a$$hole.
Sometimes it does not work out, Wade Phillips was easily one of the best DCs in the NFL in the last 30 years. He earned his chance as HC. It did not work out. There are numerous OCs and DCs that were top 5 at there job that earned the right to be HC and it did not work out.
I don't apologize for understanding the critical importance of LoS play nor have I missed the Giants struggles at the LoS. Foundation of football. Post plenty about other topics.
You called it dumb and didn't tell me not to post about it. Good job. However it's 30 not 36. You should know this with the couple hundred posts to me about it. I also went into much more than 30. Have fun continuing with that if you choose.
If only the Patriots had rushed for 30 yards per game the last two years, Belichick would be a candidate for the Giants job. But unfortunately no dice.
Story teller Christian. Time to build another malfunctioning clock or system. At least BB stories have merit but then again he doesn't need to tell them.
Thank you for the forensics on a conversation I literally just participated in Receipts on Li.
It appears that in point-of-fact you were able to read along, and you did understand Mike and I were talking about one isolated aspect of Campbell's team building.
This might blow your mind, but from time-to-time people will participate in tangential conversations, that don't tie to your tedious and repetitive drivel.
I kind of like Receipts on Li, but I'm also inclined to introduce Eric the Splash Play Machine.
what i understand is that you played christian the contrarian as usual, made the 'time machine' comment which both mike and myself objected to based on football since this is a football message board, then as has been your habit the last several months a pedantic football discussion, in this case statistics about the detroit lions offensive line, triggers you into name calling and projection.
i'd say you should keep workshopping better nicknames for me because you havent quite hit the mark but im not sure how healthy it is for you to spend any more time thinking about me or my posts.
They were outlining the head coaching hires since Coughlin. Man, it's depressing.
Ben McAdoo
Pat Shurmur
Joe Judge
Simmons called it the trifecta. None of them had any business being a head coach. Shurmur and Judge both in college now. Daboll probably gets fired next.
This is the NY Giants. Think about how bad these recent hires are.
Shurmur had every right to be a NFL HC. He earned his chance as one of the best OCs in football. Lombardi is a total a$$hole.
Sometimes it does not work out, Wade Phillips was easily one of the best DCs in the NFL in the last 30 years. He earned his chance as HC. It did not work out. There are numerous OCs and DCs that were top 5 at there job that earned the right to be HC and it did not work out.
i thought shurmur deserved a chance too, and unlike mcadoo he'd been a HC before so there was some hope he fit the arians prototype at that time which was an overlooked experienced assistant because personality wise he didnt fit into the right mold.
as it turned out he had the maturity of a 2nd grader. each of these failed HC's has had a breaking moment and i think his was when he publicly threw Lauletta under the bus. the only what if i have with him was if he'd have gotten Fangio as DC since bettcher was just so, so bad. if 2018 goes better maybe the OBJ trade never happens and then maybe you have a good defense plus an offense that has Engram, OBJ, Barkley. but more than likely it makes no difference. leadership is destiny and he was a shitty leader.
daboll hasnt had his signature public breaking point yet and obviously the future is unwritten so who knows but he is on the doorstep. if this week goes poorly and with CLE then what could into a DAL home game in NY on TNG next up the movie feels all too familiar. with the benefit of hindsight his friction with mcdermott doesnt reflect very well given mcdermott has been able to fire his protege, move on, and keep that train moving.
I made an isolated observation that I didn't believe the the Lions line is a good model for the Giants -- given the age, milage, and timeframe it took to be where they are today.
And that under Daboll, the Giants have spent plenty of resources on the offensive, which is finally showing signs of improvement.
That you found that to be evidence I was accusing you of wanting regime change solely because of the offense line was so out of left field, you 100% deserved to be called a dipshit.
I made an isolated observation that I didn't believe the the Lions line is a good model for the Giants -- given the age, milage, and timeframe it took to be where they are today.
And that under Daboll, the Giants have spent plenty of resources on the offensive, which is finally showing signs of improvement.
That you found that to be evidence I was accusing you of wanting regime change solely because of the offense line was so out of left field, you 100% deserved to be called a dipshit.
act offended at something banal challenge accepted apparently.
i deeply apologize for accusing you of accusing me of basing an argument on the narrowed criteria of OL play absent everything else discussed itt. feel better or still big mad?
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: not sure why bb ship would have sailed any time prior
nobody thought he was ever getting out of ne, certainly not when brady was there. by the time it was rumored last year he may be on the outs daboll seemed secure.
either way things change and if this regime flames out as spectacularly as last sunday its time to revaluate everything. again. including whatever may have seemed unlikely 10 years ago.
BB wanted full.control, Giants said no. Same with Cowher. Doubt that would change.
when could they have even said no? he won super bowls in NE in 2014, 2016, 2018. made the SB in 2017. that basically covers the entire coughlin, reese, mcadoo, gettleman, shurmur era of hiring processes with his team participating and mostly winning super bowls with brady.
There were back channel messages exchanged after TC was fired.
im gonna call some mild bs on this - not on you or your credibility just on the quality and likelihood of the info relayed to you. a timeline:
January 4 2016
- Coughlin resigns, Reese remains
- defending SB champion NE on a bye week as 2 seed having gone 12-4
January 14 2016
- Giants hire Ben Mcadoo
January 16 / 24 2016
- NE beats KC 27-20, setting up January 24 AFCCG vs #1 seed Peyton Manning and Denver Broncos, which they lost 20-18.
Could they have checked in with BB during his bye week? sure. but what are the odds any non-parcells non-scumbag would seriously consider any move like that mid-dynasty?
a year later on 2/5/17 NE won super bowl 51 vs seattle on malcolm butlers INT and belichick's famous non-timeout, and then 2 years after that on 2/3/19 they won super bowl 53 vs the Rams.
forget the giants, how likely does it seem that belichick would have responded to any overture at that time or that kraft would have allowed it for anything short of the multiple first round picks he paid as compensation to jets?
My brain is overloaded these days with new job and son in school dual chaos, but I believe the whispers started in December before they canned TC. Eric, a few asshats, and a few I know off BBI all heard some semblance of it. YMMV.
It doesn't mean it's a lock to not happen now, but it would be a huge reversal from NYG ownership. Either way, moving on.
That is accurate, but will also never happen. The Maras see them as part of the solution, not the problem.
And to be honest none of us know if those guys are any good at what they do. But the point you made is the reason they need to go - they are not accountable to anyone and their continued employment is not contingent on their performance, only their names.
Offensively, the plan is crystal clear. Build a strong pass protecting offensive line and a stable of pass catchers who can catch and run.
If you re-watch the pass plays from the Vikings game, read the reviews, and read the grading outlets -- they did a good job pass protecting. That part of the plan is working out.
If you apply that same rubric to the receivers, they looked and graded to be open as well. That part of the plan appears capable of working.
They don't need to put their head in the sand and wait for a Mahomes. They just need someone who isn't arguably the very worst starter in the league at QB.
All Pass Plays - ( New Window )
At his age, I see something like 2 years. Maybe he does a good job coaching and we are a fundamentally sound team and we have 2 seasons that are like 8-9 and 9-8. The he retires and we start over again. Something like this seems to be by far the most likely outcome.
Sewell was campbell's first draft pick in his rookie season. picked 7th overall.
jonah jackson was a 3rd round pick from 2020 he inheritted. he was picked 75th overall so lower than both JMS/Ezeudu and not by campbell.
vaitai had been a UFA signing from Philly.
yes that is 3rd year Evan Brown who was a nyg UDFA signing under Gettleman.
and yes that is 2024 giants training camp cyclist matt nelson who stepped in for half the season to play T when Decker was injured.
jackson, vaitai, and brown have all moved on and he replaced them with draft picks and zeitler. yes inheriting decker/ragnow was a big help, as was their staying healthier in future seasons, but this nyg regime and the next will inherit their own version of at least decker with thomas.
At his age, I see something like 2 years. Maybe he does a good job coaching and we are a fundamentally sound team and we have 2 seasons that are like 8-9 and 9-8. The he retires and we start over again. Something like this seems to be by far the most likely outcome.
how does parcells dallas work for you as a model?
in the 3 years prior to parcells, they went 15-33.
in the 4 years he coached them, they went 34-30 with 3 winning seasons.
but in those 4 years he entirely rebuild their physicality, especially on the OL, and that has now been their calling card as a franchise for almost 2 full decades. will mcclays first year as a pro scout for dallas was the year before parcells got there. think those 4 years he was there with him didnt help inform how well he's continue to build their roster since? he's been their defacto gm since 2016/2017 and before that was their director of both pro/amateur scouting as they were drafting guys like martin, fredrick, lawrence, etc.
even with a crappy head coach like wade phillips they won 13 games the year after parcells left because he had built a foundation over his 4 years there with ware, witten, romo, the OL, etc. he gave them a blueprint that to their credit they've continued to copy effectively.
Hopefully the Giants are entering the stage Detroit was in 2021. A unit that had aspirations to be in the top 3rd and has a few cornerstone players already there.
Hopefully the Giants are entering the stage Detroit was in 2021. A unit that had aspirations to be in the top 3rd and has a few cornerstone players already there.
Adding a cerebral QB doesn’t hurt either
The Dallas that hasn't so much as played in a conference title game? That Dallas?
Hopefully the Giants are entering the stage Detroit was in 2021. A unit that had aspirations to be in the top 3rd and has a few cornerstone players already there.
they had 3.5 new starters in dan campbell's first year because of injuries to decker and ragnow.
of course they weren't all rookies, some of them had been in the NFL for a long time. That is scouting, development, coaching. campbell's playing career was built entirely on blocking and he emphasized OL from day 1 getting his first pick right with Sewell.
he didnt even go out and hire a fancy OL coach, he kept hank fraley from the prior staff in just his 2nd year as OL coach.
each year they lost 1-2 starters to FA or upgraded those positions. this past year when they lost jonah jackson they replaced him with zeitler. glasgow is on a pretty modest glowinski sized contract. campbell brought a physical play with your hair on fire mindset and emphasis from day 1, and wasnt afraid to draft lower positional value players who fit that.
At his age, I see something like 2 years. Maybe he does a good job coaching and we are a fundamentally sound team and we have 2 seasons that are like 8-9 and 9-8. The he retires and we start over again. Something like this seems to be by far the most likely outcome.
100%.
I've written it a half dozen times the last several days. BB is chasing Shula and another Lombardi at this point. It's a chase for more history. Coming here doesn't improve those chances.
Maybe BB is feeling sentimental and magnanimous and I'm wrong.
But he seems like a super competitive guy itching to win big without Brady. And put a fork in that debate.
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how does parcells dallas work for you as a model?
The Dallas that hasn't so much as played in a conference title game? That Dallas?
Yes exactly that dallas. If Jerry Jones hadnt run off Parcells they probably would have been in the conference title game in 2008 instead of nyg. Or if he'd replaced him with good coaches instead of a bunch of mediocre's like wade, garrett, mccarthy.
but hey tell yourself whatever you want, if you want to equate this franchise being the league's doormat for the last decade and dallas avg'ing like 10 wins a season and winning the division every other year just because they havent figured it out in the postseason by all means.
"sure my honda is a beat up piece of junk that breaks down every week but let's not act like that BMW over there is better because it's definitely not a Rolls Royce"
Acknowledging biological reality is a good thing. Theoretically, some kind of director of football ops would make sense....except that his performance as defacto GM of the Patriots since Brady's departure was pretty bad.
Beat that strawman, baby! It won't try that again!
If you can point out to me where I said that I'd rather be the Giants of recent vintage than the Cowboys of recent vintage, I will gladly retract and apologize. I did not say or even imply that.
This discussion is about what the Giants *should* be going forward, what kind of team we would want them to be. If being a good (not great) regular season team and flopping in the playoffs every single year strikes you as an ideal, then more power to you.
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with Belichick. Do you think he's going to coach for 5 years?
At his age, I see something like 2 years. Maybe he does a good job coaching and we are a fundamentally sound team and we have 2 seasons that are like 8-9 and 9-8. The he retires and we start over again. Something like this seems to be by far the most likely outcome.
100%.
I've written it a half dozen times the last several days. BB is chasing Shula and another Lombardi at this point. It's a chase for more history. Coming here doesn't improve those chances.
Maybe BB is feeling sentimental and magnanimous and I'm wrong.
But he seems like a super competitive guy itching to win big without Brady. And put a fork in that debate.
he is clearly motivated but he just went an offseason getting passed over for how many jobs?
if he gets offered a job with total control on say january 1, before an opportunity like dallas is likely even known to be available or not since they will be in the playoffs, is he passing on it?
if i were john mara id already have him in the tent as a consultant. pay him whatever to confidentially give his honest thoughts on the state of the team. he's doing it publicly for ESPN, cant imagine it's a stretch that he'd do it confidentially if asked by an owner/organization he's declared a public fondness for dozens of times. edelman's comments aren't out of nowhere.
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"sure my honda is a beat up piece of junk that breaks down every week but let's not act like that BMW over there is better because it's definitely not a Rolls Royce"
Beat that strawman, baby! It won't try that again!
If you can point out to me where I said that I'd rather be the Giants of recent vintage than the Cowboys of recent vintage, I will gladly retract and apologize. I did not say or even imply that.
This discussion is about what the Giants *should* be going forward, what kind of team we would want them to be. If being a good (not great) regular season team and flopping in the playoffs every single year strikes you as an ideal, then more power to you.
the strawman is that there's any way to knowingly build a good regular season team that then flops in the playoffs.
i think building a good team is a good idea whatever else happens after that, and dallas has been building good teams since parcells came in.
what happens to said good teams once they get to the playoffs is likely to come down to whether or not whoever the QB/head coach can win big games. andy reid got fired in philly because he built a lot of good regular season teams that didnt win super bowls. he's 66 years old and id gladly take him as coach for the next decade too.
You don't need a Dan Campbell character to project the Giants have made some sound investments in the offensive line and the arrow is pointing in the right direction.
But if you want veins popping and dramatic embarrassing failure in the biggest game of one's tenure, maybe the Giants can just give Daboll an energy drink. He's 50% of the way there.
Dallas has been very good for a long time, they are explosive with big play ability on both sides of the ball. Yes I want that.
I just don't see hiring 73 year old Belichick as the path there. Unless he permanently cleaned out John, Chris, Tim, and whatever other critters are on the way up. If that was the only thing he did, I'd also sign up for that.
In zero ways is that better than hiring a young innovative coach.
and based on your thought process in this thread, you probably would have moved on from him at some point in the 18 seasons before he won with mahomes because he "flopped in the postseason". he only won 1 playoff game in his first 5 years with the chiefs.
A whole bunch of coaches could win Super Bowls with Mahomes. It's not some unique ability of Reid's.
You don't need a Dan Campbell character to project the Giants have made some sound investments in the offensive line and the arrow is pointing in the right direction.
But if you want veins popping and dramatic embarrassing failure in the biggest game of one's tenure, maybe the Giants can just give Daboll an energy drink. He's 50% of the way there.
another strawman. nobody is talking about regime change because of just the OL.
we are talking about regime change because the team got it's dome caved in at home week 1 by sam freaking darnold, continuing a trend of getting rolled over with almost zero pushback for the full decade post-coughlin. over that period of time they have almost never been the more physical team. OL is only a part of that larger reality.
What does drafting Jones have to do with anything?
1. Mara fires coaches after two consecutive bad years (Coughlin had four years because of the 2 super bowls). He bounced from Coughlin to McAdoo to Shurmur to Judge to Daboll. When things went badly with the younger offensive guru in McAdoo he turned to the security blanket of known commodities.
2. Spending on BB would also throw red meat to the disillusioned fan base to generate excitement based on past successes both here and in New England.
3. They are friends and BB would be able to influence Mara to get what he wants, moreso than other owners in the NFL where there may not be the same history
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and based on your thought process in this thread, you probably would have moved on from him at some point in the 18 seasons before he won with mahomes because he "flopped in the postseason". he only won 1 playoff game in his first 5 years with the chiefs.
A whole bunch of coaches could win Super Bowls with Mahomes. It's not some unique ability of Reid's.
It is a unique ability of Reid's to coach Patrick Mahomes only because he was uniquely the one who traded up to draft him while 9 other teams directly passed on him and 21 others didnt trade up for him (all but 4 with picks higher than the 27th pick reid moved up from).
It is also a unique ability of his to have won games in the regular season at a near 60% clip even without Mahomes.
he is clearly motivated but he just went an offseason getting passed over for how many jobs?
if he gets offered a job with total control on say january 1, before an opportunity like dallas is likely even known to be available or not since they will be in the playoffs, is he passing on it?
if i were john mara id already have him in the tent as a consultant. pay him whatever to confidentially give his honest thoughts on the state of the team. he's doing it publicly for ESPN, cant imagine it's a stretch that he'd do it confidentially if asked by an owner/organization he's declared a public fondness for dozens of times. edelman's comments aren't out of nowhere.
Well, you are raising another point/question if BB is even hirable at this point based on his age, his last four years in New England, and the quasi-blacking-balling Kraft has been reported to be doing behind the scenes. Hell, it was reported he didn't even finish in the top three finalists for the ATL job.
So, while there may be limited demand based on all those factors, I'm not convinced BB will just accept any job at the point. Again, my gut tells me he wants the best chance to win as soon as possible.
Which is why he was into the ATL job. They have a lot of pieces in place and play in one of the weaker divisions.
At this point, his best chance is with a team that is close, so that team doesn't have to worry about him impacting personnel. BB comes in and focuses on culture, discipline, and installing his programs.
You should try adding value and not telling people what to do.
The current regime has invested two top 10 picks, a second rounder, and significant money in both the defensive and offensive lines.
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he is clearly motivated but he just went an offseason getting passed over for how many jobs?
if he gets offered a job with total control on say january 1, before an opportunity like dallas is likely even known to be available or not since they will be in the playoffs, is he passing on it?
if i were john mara id already have him in the tent as a consultant. pay him whatever to confidentially give his honest thoughts on the state of the team. he's doing it publicly for ESPN, cant imagine it's a stretch that he'd do it confidentially if asked by an owner/organization he's declared a public fondness for dozens of times. edelman's comments aren't out of nowhere.
Well, you are raising another point/question if BB is even hirable at this point based on his age, his last four years in New England, and the quasi-blacking-balling Kraft has been reported to be doing behind the scenes. Hell, it was reported he didn't even finish in the top three finalists for the ATL job.
So, while there may be limited demand based on all those factors, I'm not convinced BB will just accept any job at the point. Again, my gut tells me he wants the best chance to win as soon as possible.
Which is why he was into the ATL job. They have a lot of pieces in place and play in one of the weaker divisions.
At this point, his best chance is with a team that is close, so that team doesn't have to worry about him impacting personnel. BB comes in and focuses on culture, discipline, and installing his programs.
he went full tilt for the ATL job and i disagree that they had a lot of pieces. they had the 8th pick and obviously didnt have cousins yet so qb was a complete unknown. they had a few recent high draft picks (bijan, london, pitts) but not a ton else. i think he has since even been critical of the extension they gave Terrell.
You don't need a Dan Campbell character to project the Giants have made some sound investments in the offensive line and the arrow is pointing in the right direction.
But if you want veins popping and dramatic embarrassing failure in the biggest game of one's tenure, maybe the Giants can just give Daboll an energy drink. He's 50% of the way there.
another strawman. nobody is talking about regime change because of just the OL.
we are talking about regime change because the team got it's dome caved in at home week 1 by sam freaking darnold, continuing a trend of getting rolled over with almost zero pushback for the full decade post-coughlin. over that period of time they have almost never been the more physical team. OL is only a part of that larger reality.
I'm only discussing the offensive line dip shit.
You feel free to get yourself all revved up about Belichick. I'm sure it will age as well as your previous semi-annual over reactions. It can sit neatly next to demand for Carr and how dangerous Simmons will be as a pass rusher.
Perhaps best to not follow me around.
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Based on the early results, the Giants don't need anyone on fire. The offensive line at a minimum took the first step into functional, and presumably with more time and cohesion, will develop further.
You don't need a Dan Campbell character to project the Giants have made some sound investments in the offensive line and the arrow is pointing in the right direction.
But if you want veins popping and dramatic embarrassing failure in the biggest game of one's tenure, maybe the Giants can just give Daboll an energy drink. He's 50% of the way there.
another strawman. nobody is talking about regime change because of just the OL.
we are talking about regime change because the team got it's dome caved in at home week 1 by sam freaking darnold, continuing a trend of getting rolled over with almost zero pushback for the full decade post-coughlin. over that period of time they have almost never been the more physical team. OL is only a part of that larger reality.
I'm only discussing the offensive line dip shit.
You feel free to get yourself all revved up about Belichick. I'm sure it will age as well as your previous semi-annual over reactions. It can sit neatly next to demand for Carr and how dangerous Simmons will be as a pass rusher.
so go make an OL thread dip shit. last i checked this thread was about Belichick so maybe don't enter if it's going to so trigger you?
btw the simmons thread i made last year that is so etched in your mind was 3.5 months before the gm of this franchise apparently agreed with the idea bc he then actually traded for him. and while they didnt use him pass rushing so much he actually did rate better than most of the rest of the defense in the mostly coverage role they put him in, which is presumably why they resigned him and gave him a raise.
though to be clear at this point having my ideas endorsed by joe schoen probably rates even lower than the fastidious memory of bbi's resident scorekeeper in terms of noteworthy achievements.
the case for trading for isaiah simmons 5/3/23 - ( New Window )
Ben McAdoo
Pat Shurmur
Joe Judge
Simmons called it the trifecta. None of them had any business being a head coach. Shurmur and Judge both in college now. Daboll probably gets fired next.
This is the NY Giants. Think about how bad these recent hires are.
As far as gate keeping, I can only aspire to your heights. You don't solicit a nickname like Receipts on Li without putting in the work. So bravo.
This week the answer is Belichick, I can only guess what will get your worked up into a chart on Monday.
As far as gate keeping, I can only aspire to your heights. You don't solicit a nickname like Receipts on Li without putting in the work. So bravo.
This week the answer is Belichick, I can only guess what will get your worked up into a chart on Monday.
mike in ohio's comment re Campbell came directly off the discussion me and go terps had yesterday and his conclusion was the same as both of ours was - which was pro-BB. my comment agreeing with the point Mike brought up re Campbell was perfectly in context with the thread as evidenced by the fact that I myself had also brought him up prior, and here are the receipts on li for you.
In comment 16607380 Eric on Li said:
if we ran back the heavy handed joe judge intro presser that plan would fit his vision, he just had no idea how to get there beyond talk.
it's smart/tough/dependable, except executed correctly. dan campbell basically.
the giants problem hasnt been that their plans didnt have a lot of that intention, they havent executed it. they've have chosen the wrong leaders. they have only ever been the more physical team on rare occasions post-coughlin.
In comment 16607471 Mike from Ohio said:
No GM we can bring in can work past those handicaps other than BB. The problem is that BB is an incredibly good coach, but a poor talent evaluator. As mentioned, if BB is coaching this team, he is the GM whether he is given that title or not. Nobody is telling him to get out of the draft room or pipe down.
The Giants should be following the model Campbell did in Detroit. If you can't win the battle for offensive innovation in the modern NFL, you change the game and you go the opposite direction. You focus on the Oline and the running game, and you grab a QB to develop and a middling vet in FA to play until he is ready.
I don't love the idea of hiring a 73 year old to take over the operations, but I am going to go the opposite of Bitey's point yesterday - we need a historian not another innovator. This organization is not built for innovation.
i disagreed with your comment below coming off that exactly the same way mike did because both of his posts were exactly right, Detroit didn't pull off some magic unicorn strategy that requires a time machine, Dan Campbell came in and executed with mostly players he inherited. Just as Jim Harbough appears to be doing with LAC without a time machine.
Perhaps best to not follow me around.
Don’t flatter yourself, it’s just dumb to keep non stop yelling about the lines of scrimmage.
Maybe they should run to 36 times a game.
It appears that in point-of-fact you were able to read along, and you did understand Mike and I were talking about one isolated aspect of Campbell's team building.
This might blow your mind, but from time-to-time people will participate in tangential conversations, that don't tie to your tedious and repetitive drivel.
I kind of like Receipts on Li, but I'm also inclined to introduce Eric the Splash Play Machine.
Ben McAdoo
Pat Shurmur
Joe Judge
Simmons called it the trifecta. None of them had any business being a head coach. Shurmur and Judge both in college now. Daboll probably gets fired next.
This is the NY Giants. Think about how bad these recent hires are.
Shurmur had every right to be a NFL HC. He earned his chance as one of the best OCs in football. Lombardi is a total a$$hole.
Sometimes it does not work out, Wade Phillips was easily one of the best DCs in the NFL in the last 30 years. He earned his chance as HC. It did not work out. There are numerous OCs and DCs that were top 5 at there job that earned the right to be HC and it did not work out.
You called it dumb and didn't tell me not to post about it. Good job. However it's 30 not 36. You should know this with the couple hundred posts to me about it. I also went into much more than 30. Have fun continuing with that if you choose.
It appears that in point-of-fact you were able to read along, and you did understand Mike and I were talking about one isolated aspect of Campbell's team building.
This might blow your mind, but from time-to-time people will participate in tangential conversations, that don't tie to your tedious and repetitive drivel.
I kind of like Receipts on Li, but I'm also inclined to introduce Eric the Splash Play Machine.
what i understand is that you played christian the contrarian as usual, made the 'time machine' comment which both mike and myself objected to based on football since this is a football message board, then as has been your habit the last several months a pedantic football discussion, in this case statistics about the detroit lions offensive line, triggers you into name calling and projection.
i'd say you should keep workshopping better nicknames for me because you havent quite hit the mark but im not sure how healthy it is for you to spend any more time thinking about me or my posts.
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They were outlining the head coaching hires since Coughlin. Man, it's depressing.
Ben McAdoo
Pat Shurmur
Joe Judge
Simmons called it the trifecta. None of them had any business being a head coach. Shurmur and Judge both in college now. Daboll probably gets fired next.
This is the NY Giants. Think about how bad these recent hires are.
Shurmur had every right to be a NFL HC. He earned his chance as one of the best OCs in football. Lombardi is a total a$$hole.
Sometimes it does not work out, Wade Phillips was easily one of the best DCs in the NFL in the last 30 years. He earned his chance as HC. It did not work out. There are numerous OCs and DCs that were top 5 at there job that earned the right to be HC and it did not work out.
i thought shurmur deserved a chance too, and unlike mcadoo he'd been a HC before so there was some hope he fit the arians prototype at that time which was an overlooked experienced assistant because personality wise he didnt fit into the right mold.
as it turned out he had the maturity of a 2nd grader. each of these failed HC's has had a breaking moment and i think his was when he publicly threw Lauletta under the bus. the only what if i have with him was if he'd have gotten Fangio as DC since bettcher was just so, so bad. if 2018 goes better maybe the OBJ trade never happens and then maybe you have a good defense plus an offense that has Engram, OBJ, Barkley. but more than likely it makes no difference. leadership is destiny and he was a shitty leader.
daboll hasnt had his signature public breaking point yet and obviously the future is unwritten so who knows but he is on the doorstep. if this week goes poorly and with CLE then what could into a DAL home game in NY on TNG next up the movie feels all too familiar. with the benefit of hindsight his friction with mcdermott doesnt reflect very well given mcdermott has been able to fire his protege, move on, and keep that train moving.
And that under Daboll, the Giants have spent plenty of resources on the offensive, which is finally showing signs of improvement.
That you found that to be evidence I was accusing you of wanting regime change solely because of the offense line was so out of left field, you 100% deserved to be called a dipshit.
And that under Daboll, the Giants have spent plenty of resources on the offensive, which is finally showing signs of improvement.
That you found that to be evidence I was accusing you of wanting regime change solely because of the offense line was so out of left field, you 100% deserved to be called a dipshit.
act offended at something banal challenge accepted apparently.
i deeply apologize for accusing you of accusing me of basing an argument on the narrowed criteria of OL play absent everything else discussed itt. feel better or still big mad?
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In comment 16607384 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16607379 JonC said:
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In comment 16607374 Eric on Li said:
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nobody thought he was ever getting out of ne, certainly not when brady was there. by the time it was rumored last year he may be on the outs daboll seemed secure.
either way things change and if this regime flames out as spectacularly as last sunday its time to revaluate everything. again. including whatever may have seemed unlikely 10 years ago.
BB wanted full.control, Giants said no. Same with Cowher. Doubt that would change.
when could they have even said no? he won super bowls in NE in 2014, 2016, 2018. made the SB in 2017. that basically covers the entire coughlin, reese, mcadoo, gettleman, shurmur era of hiring processes with his team participating and mostly winning super bowls with brady.
There were back channel messages exchanged after TC was fired.
im gonna call some mild bs on this - not on you or your credibility just on the quality and likelihood of the info relayed to you. a timeline:
January 4 2016
- Coughlin resigns, Reese remains
- defending SB champion NE on a bye week as 2 seed having gone 12-4
January 14 2016
- Giants hire Ben Mcadoo
January 16 / 24 2016
- NE beats KC 27-20, setting up January 24 AFCCG vs #1 seed Peyton Manning and Denver Broncos, which they lost 20-18.
Could they have checked in with BB during his bye week? sure. but what are the odds any non-parcells non-scumbag would seriously consider any move like that mid-dynasty?
a year later on 2/5/17 NE won super bowl 51 vs seattle on malcolm butlers INT and belichick's famous non-timeout, and then 2 years after that on 2/3/19 they won super bowl 53 vs the Rams.
forget the giants, how likely does it seem that belichick would have responded to any overture at that time or that kraft would have allowed it for anything short of the multiple first round picks he paid as compensation to jets?
My brain is overloaded these days with new job and son in school dual chaos, but I believe the whispers started in December before they canned TC. Eric, a few asshats, and a few I know off BBI all heard some semblance of it. YMMV.
It doesn't mean it's a lock to not happen now, but it would be a huge reversal from NYG ownership. Either way, moving on.