took him 6 seasons to replace Garoppolo and it was 2 chances, 1 was trading up to get trey lance and the other was Brock Purdy
You may recall that the 49ers went to the Super Bowl in Garoppolo's first full/healthy season with them in 2019. After he got hurt again in 2020, they made the trades to draft Lance in the 2021 draft, and a year later used a 6th round pick on Purdy.
Maybe you can call that "luck" but again the Giants have made ZERO attempts at improving the QB position in six years.
and thats all Schoens fault? Did he not evaluate the QBs this year and try to trade up?
Were there other options? Were there three QBs sitting there for the Giants at #6? Were there developmental QBs sitting there in every subsequent round of the draft?
There were five QBs drafted in rounds 5-7.
The thing about luck is that you actually have to place a bet on something for it to pay off. A (predictably) failed attempt to trade up for ONE specific QB is not really a serious attempt to upgrade the position.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Schoen & Daboll should have their asses handed to them on
took him 6 seasons to replace Garoppolo and it was 2 chances, 1 was trading up to get trey lance and the other was Brock Purdy
You may recall that the 49ers went to the Super Bowl in Garoppolo's first full/healthy season with them in 2019. After he got hurt again in 2020, they made the trades to draft Lance in the 2021 draft, and a year later used a 6th round pick on Purdy.
Maybe you can call that "luck" but again the Giants have made ZERO attempts at improving the QB position in six years.
and thats all Schoens fault? Did he not evaluate the QBs this year and try to trade up?
Were there other options? Were there three QBs sitting there for the Giants at #6? Were there developmental QBs sitting there in every subsequent round of the draft?
There were five QBs drafted in rounds 5-7.
The thing about luck is that you actually have to place a bet on something for it to pay off. A (predictably) failed attempt to trade up for ONE specific QB is not really a serious attempt to upgrade the position.
So if he drsft JJ you would be saying he drsfted Damaged goods and Jones is still starting..
Penix is not even playing with Kirk Cousons looking like crap..
and Bo Nix had a good preseason and then a terrible firs tgame which everyone would be saying Schoen made a mistake..
I don't think he'll stink it up this week. Washington's secondary is terrible. If he does though, they won't make a change until the Cleveland game. Initially I figured he would get a month to six weeks, but with how bad week 1 was, I think the leash got a little shorter with a coach who is falling into the hot seat. If he was just bad week 1, I think we would be able to attribute to rust, but week 1 was as bad as I've seen a QB play in this league in years.
I habe seen in this town when you actually have a little patience even after making terrible mistakes and have a terrible year what a GM can do with a little bit of patience...
Schoen may not be the guy, but damn some people jist want to churn out GMs and then will blame Mara for interfering...
So whcih is it? Mara or Schoen..
I'm with you, I too am tired of churning through GM's and HC's, but there is little evidence to date to show that Schoen is up to the job. Other than maybe JMS, his OL picks have been brutally bad. His first 2 drafts have netted 2 very good players, and that's including 2 top 10 picks.
There appears to be some hope with this class, but we've all said that before. If he and Daboll can somehow get this season back on track, even if it's only to win 7 or 8 games, I think they'll be back. 5 or 6, I think only one of them will be back, 4 or less, it's another housecleaning.
RE: Schoen & Daboll should have their asses handed to them on
So if he drsft JJ you would be saying he drsfted Damaged goods and Jones is still starting..
Penix is not even playing with Kirk Cousons looking like crap..
and Bo Nix had a good preseason and then a terrible firs tgame which everyone would be saying Schoen made a mistake..
am i wrong?
Yes, you are.
If they had drafted JJM that would have been bad luck initially with the injury.
Penix was never going to start over Cousins to start the season, so evaluating that selection is impossible, but I would love it if the Giants could turn to him right now instead of Drew Lock or the Jersey Meme QB.
So if he drsft JJ you would be saying he drsfted Damaged goods and Jones is still starting..
Penix is not even playing with Kirk Cousons looking like crap..
and Bo Nix had a good preseason and then a terrible firs tgame which everyone would be saying Schoen made a mistake..
am i wrong?
Yes, you are.
If they had drafted JJM that would have been bad luck initially with the injury.
Penix was never going to start over Cousins to start the season, so evaluating that selection is impossible, but I would love it if the Giants could turn to him right now instead of Drew Lock or the Jersey Meme QB.
Nix has made one NFL start.
I shouldnt of saod you personally i meant you in the general sense of this board who overreacts to every little thing
Because right now the anger is over Daniel Jones still starting so people are calling for his benching
Just wait. Just wait until people realize that Schoen has left this team and its season no better or only slightly better alternatives in Lock & DeVito
Whenever this benching or injury occurs to Jones
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Schoen & Daboll should have their asses handed to them on
the poor evaluation/contract decisions they have made on Jones.
However, while we should never forget that fact, it must be viewed as a sunk cost right now and the only thought should be to get him out of the picture immediately.
Continuing to let DJ start games is absolutely ludicrous.
So should John Lynch have been fired for signing Garoppolo and draft trey lance?
John Lynch has made many attempts to improve the QB position with the 49ers.
The Giants have not drafted or attempted to acquire a legitimate alternative to Jones in 6 years.
took him 6 seasons to replace Garoppolo and it was 2 chances, 1 was trading up to get trey lance and the other was Brock Purdy
So you agree he took too long to replace his QB. And when he did that is when he started figuring out solutions.
Schoen should take notice.
Jones has be3n QB for Schoen for 2 years, this is yesr 3 and you want him fired over it, you arent giving him a chance to mvoe on
And he signed Jones to that awful contract (mistake 1)
And he agreed to the terrible injury cause (mistake 2)
And he has taken 0 QBs in the draft (mistake 3)
And he failed to improve the QB depth behind Jones (mistake 4)
As was said last week Daniel Jones is an anvil tied around Schoen's neck that and he refuses to cut the rope.
Should he get benched? Yes. 1,968 days ago and counting.
My guess is, if he plays like he has since he signed that contract, his last play as a starter will be at the end of the second quarter next week in Cleveland. I cannot see him starting that Cowboys game on 9/26 in front of a majority of euphoric Cowboys fans and a minority of disgusted Giants fans.
Self-preservation and denial are generally defeated soundly by embarrassment and humiliation.
took him 6 seasons to replace Garoppolo and it was 2 chances, 1 was trading up to get trey lance and the other was Brock Purdy
You may recall that the 49ers went to the Super Bowl in Garoppolo's first full/healthy season with them in 2019. After he got hurt again in 2020, they made the trades to draft Lance in the 2021 draft, and a year later used a 6th round pick on Purdy.
Maybe you can call that "luck" but again the Giants have made ZERO attempts at improving the QB position in six years.
and thats all Schoens fault? Did he not evaluate the QBs this year and try to trade up?
Were there other options? Were there three QBs sitting there for the Giants at #6? Were there developmental QBs sitting there in every subsequent round of the draft?
There were five QBs drafted in rounds 5-7.
The thing about luck is that you actually have to place a bet on something for it to pay off. A (predictably) failed attempt to trade up for ONE specific QB is not really a serious attempt to upgrade the position.
So if he drsft JJ you would be saying he drsfted Damaged goods and Jones is still starting..
Penix is not even playing with Kirk Cousons looking like crap..
and Bo Nix had a good preseason and then a terrible firs tgame which everyone would be saying Schoen made a mistake..
am i wrong?
There is no reason to believe if the Giants had drafted JJ he would have gotten injured. Those two things are unrelated.
Kirk Cousins is a good QB and Penix was drafted to sit behind Cousins for this year. So no surprise Penix is sitting behind Cousins even though Cousins didn't have a good first game.
Because right now the anger is over Daniel Jones still starting so people are calling for his benching
Just wait. Just wait until people realize that Schoen has left this team and its season no better or only slightly better alternatives in Lock & DeVito
Whenever this benching or injury occurs to Jones
Just wait until people realize what a terrible job Schoen has done building this roster.
start all over again, i think its a mistake and when the next guy misses on the QB, we cna fire him to
It's not about missing on the QB, it's about quadrupling down on the miss.
I said since the end of last season running it back with Jones would cost people their jobs. JS' own son warned him on HK "there's only 32 of these jobs. Take a QB"
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Schoen & Daboll should have their asses handed to them on
Kirk Cousins is a good QB and Penix was drafted to sit behind Cousins for this year. So no surprise Penix is sitting behind Cousins even though Cousins didn't have a good first game.
Dream scenario if you want the entire Giants franchise to be embarrassed is that Penix takes over for Cousins sometime mid-season and lights the Giants up in Week 16.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Schoen & Daboll should have their asses handed to them on
Kirk Cousins is a good QB and Penix was drafted to sit behind Cousins for this year. So no surprise Penix is sitting behind Cousins even though Cousins didn't have a good first game.
Dream scenario if you want the entire Giants franchise to be embarrassed is that Penix takes over for Cousins sometime mid-season and lights the Giants up in Week 16.
Because right now the anger is over Daniel Jones still starting so people are calling for his benching
Just wait. Just wait until people realize that Schoen has left this team and its season no better or only slightly better alternatives in Lock & DeVito
Whenever this benching or injury occurs to Jones
Exactly. When Jones gets benched I'm going to be even more pissed. The backups are no better, and that was by design in order not to challenge him.
Even if he deserves to be benched, Dabs probably doesn’t want to hurt his feelings. They are already pretty fragile. Honestly, I think Jones might do better in a smaller market with a team whose fans don’t care.
it's a perfect game for the coaches to completely lose their faith
Washington sucks. Even if you want to be kind and say their D is average, Jones still has to at least play relatively well show he's capable. IF he falters here it's going to be tough to exhibit any hope if you're coaching this team.
I don't know what to root for anymore. One win here followed by losing 5 of 6 won't do anyone good.
Because right now the anger is over Daniel Jones still starting so people are calling for his benching
Just wait. Just wait until people realize that Schoen has left this team and its season no better or only slightly better alternatives in Lock & DeVito
Whenever this benching or injury occurs to Jones
Exactly. When Jones gets benched I'm going to be even more pissed. The backups are no better, and that was by design in order not to challenge him.
+2.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: Schoen & Daboll should have their asses handed to them on
Kirk Cousins is a good QB and Penix was drafted to sit behind Cousins for this year. So no surprise Penix is sitting behind Cousins even though Cousins didn't have a good first game.
Dream scenario if you want the entire Giants franchise to be embarrassed is that Penix takes over for Cousins sometime mid-season and lights the Giants up in Week 16.
BBI would have a melt down. Myself included.
Not me. Penix has a huge injury history. No way would I have taken him at #6. The better criticism of Schoen, the scouts, and the FO will be if JJM or Nix become franchise-level QBs, especially if they both do.
RE: RE: And everybody can look at the San Fran team and say they
But somebody on SF evaluated him as a prospect. And somebody said let's draft him before that draft was over. And somebody gave him snaps during camp and noticed that he had something in his game. And somebody let him make the roster. And somebody eventually got him into games and helped him develop even further.
Luck?
Purdy was a 7th round pick - Mr Irrelevant, right? In order for him to play two QBs above him got hurt. That is bad luck, or he'd still be (possibly) on the bench.
So yes, it is luck. That is not to denigrate Brock. But the 49ers took a flier on their last pick of the draft. They were in a position (excellent team structure) to roll the dice. If they thought he was so good, he would have been drafted earlier - say the 4th round.
Obviously now, it seems a no brainer.
Some of you need to read the story of about when they first started seeing Purdy that summer. They started to realize he was stronger than the guys ahead of him on the depth chart and they knew they had a good/bad problem to deal with.
Of course some of drafting is luck, but I that doesn't mean some level of luck isn't with every prospect either, first round or last round. Also Purdy is Niner just like Brady was a Patriot because somebody in those orgs saw something. And that isn't all luck.
RE: And this isn't about firing Schoen because he made a mistake
with Jones. He should be fired if he can't seem to move on from Jones and right now that is what we are witnessing.
Playing Jones one more snap is ludicrous.
Schoen should be fired for a host of reasons but the primary one is a failure to do the most basic of his job : protect the franchise
It was irresponsible of any GM to go into a season with what we know of Daniel Jones and his proven history as a QB and as an injury risk and leave this team with these alternatives at the position
The fanbase has finally awakened on Jones and will soon connect the dots to say how did our experts not know this and then once they see Lock & DeVito - how could you expose the franchise like this?
Yes if Giants are down more 14 or more points at half
Putting aside the massive screw up to sign him to that contract, Schoen and Daboll deserve blame for not bringing in better QB competition this offseason and having a true competition in camp.
Fields/ Winston/ Darnold/ Wilson/ DTR/ Willis...
All flawed options and probably not the answer- but why not find out? Especially if they put up with this poor play and refuse to go to Devito or Lock.
with Jones. He should be fired if he can't seem to move on from Jones and right now that is what we are witnessing.
Playing Jones one more snap is ludicrous.
Schoen should be fired for a host of reasons but the primary one is a failure to do the most basic of his job : protect the franchise
It was irresponsible of any GM to go into a season with what we know of Daniel Jones and his proven history as a QB and as an injury risk and leave this team with these alternatives at the position
The fanbase has finally awakened on Jones and will soon connect the dots to say how did our experts not know this and then once they see Lock & DeVito - how could you expose the franchise like this?
Football malpractice. And I think there’s something to not wanting upset poor Daniel with actual competition.
I’m beyond disgusted with this franchise.
RE: RE: And this isn't about firing Schoen because he made a mistake
with Jones. He should be fired if he can't seem to move on from Jones and right now that is what we are witnessing.
Playing Jones one more snap is ludicrous.
Schoen should be fired for a host of reasons but the primary one is a failure to do the most basic of his job : protect the franchise
It was irresponsible of any GM to go into a season with what we know of Daniel Jones and his proven history as a QB and as an injury risk and leave this team with these alternatives at the position
The fanbase has finally awakened on Jones and will soon connect the dots to say how did our experts not know this and then once they see Lock & DeVito - how could you expose the franchise like this?
Yep, agreed.
Yet the scholars on this thread and others will say Schoen tried to get Maye; Jones needs a few more games to knock off the rust; the WRs got little separation; the Giants need time to move on from DJ; no one wants to see Lock or DeVito play, etc.
Reach into the BAG OF EXCUSES and pull out one that you like this week.
“I am a strong believer in luck and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.”
- Ben Franklin
Purdy was a direct result of a franchise that is not complacent and values competition and even at the expense of the “franchise QB” or “face of the team” or whatever these unearned terms are supposed to mean.
They found luck because they were looking for it. They relentlessly pursued the QB position .
They valued honesty and evaluation over fragile egos and heirarchy.
They spent a 7th rd pick because someone liked something in Purdy. But they liked him because someone spent enough time on him because someone knew their time wouldn’t be wasted. Etc etc down the line
They knew there was no “sorry Jimmy G got us to a Super Bowl “, sorry Jimmy G is getting 100 mil, sorry we spent the 3 pick on Trey Lance, sorry we traded alot for Lance, sorry we have too many QBs, etc etc
Its lucky that Purdy slipped through 31 teams cracks in evaluation to get to the spot the 49ers were willing to spend a pick on him. Its lucky that he is this good.
Its not lucky that the 49ers value the QB spot and will continually keep searching even if they have QBs.
The entire QB episode will indeed get Schoen & Daboll fired
But when Daniel Jones takes his last snap as the starting quarterback of this franchise there will be a shout of freedom such as the sports world has never heard before...
“I am a strong believer in luck and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.”
- Ben Franklin
Purdy was a direct result of a franchise that is not complacent and values competition and even at the expense of the “franchise QB” or “face of the team” or whatever these unearned terms are supposed to mean.
They found luck because they were looking for it. They relentlessly pursued the QB position .
They valued honesty and evaluation over fragile egos and heirarchy.
They spent a 7th rd pick because someone liked something in Purdy. But they liked him because someone spent enough time on him because someone knew their time wouldn’t be wasted. Etc etc down the line
They knew there was no “sorry Jimmy G got us to a Super Bowl “, sorry Jimmy G is getting 100 mil, sorry we spent the 3 pick on Trey Lance, sorry we traded alot for Lance, sorry we have too many QBs, etc etc
Its lucky that Purdy slipped through 31 teams cracks in evaluation to get to the spot the 49ers were willing to spend a pick on him. Its lucky that he is this good.
Its not lucky that the 49ers value the QB spot and will continually keep searching even if they have QBs.
They "relentlessly" pursued the QB position? Really?
in 18, 19, 20 they didnt draft a QB, in 21 they traded up for lance and in 22 they took a flier on a 7th round pick..
I believe he is not skillful enough to be a franchise quarterback. Our backups are meh. The thing I absolutely don't want to happen is that he gets significantly injured and his injury settlement kicks in and the cap situation puts a big hurt on the team. I know everybody wants DJ gone but we are stuck with him this season.
My fear is that I am starting to doubt that Schoen and staff even with a top five pick are competent to draft our next successful franchise quarterback. So I am sick of the Jones posts and not disagreeing with the well thought out criticisms but I believe we are beating a dead horse. I am so despairing about this team that I almost don't want to watch this potential train wreck of a season .. again.
“I am a strong believer in luck and I find the harder I work the more I have of it.”
- Ben Franklin
Purdy was a direct result of a franchise that is not complacent and values competition and even at the expense of the “franchise QB” or “face of the team” or whatever these unearned terms are supposed to mean.
They found luck because they were looking for it. They relentlessly pursued the QB position .
They valued honesty and evaluation over fragile egos and heirarchy.
They spent a 7th rd pick because someone liked something in Purdy. But they liked him because someone spent enough time on him because someone knew their time wouldn’t be wasted. Etc etc down the line
They knew there was no “sorry Jimmy G got us to a Super Bowl “, sorry Jimmy G is getting 100 mil, sorry we spent the 3 pick on Trey Lance, sorry we traded alot for Lance, sorry we have too many QBs, etc etc
Its lucky that Purdy slipped through 31 teams cracks in evaluation to get to the spot the 49ers were willing to spend a pick on him. Its lucky that he is this good.
Its not lucky that the 49ers value the QB spot and will continually keep searching even if they have QBs.
at 1925 Giants Way this week. They look at the play of QBs around the league last week and notice a lot of them played poorly.
So, they take some comfort in that and conclude they are not alone and feel better about things. And it may just take time for Jones to find his timing and confidence coming off a long layoff and injury.
Unless he gets hurt, I think he has a long runway this season.
We are just in the most bizarre place with the most bizarre people making decisions...
They are likely to be coming into week 4 at 1-2, facing the Cowboys at the Meadowlands.
If Jones is staring then, he's going to get booed. And based on history and talent, the Cowboys are going to blow out the Giants..again...at home.
Jones won't survive that. Not that it wouldn't happen with Lock or DeVito, but at least if you bench DJ, you could put him back at QB after that game.
If not, if Daboll is stubborn, then team may start collapsing at that point, risking Daboll's (and possibly Schoen's) job. If you thought the Eli benching was a firestorm, that will be just a match compared to a Dallas blowout after a DJ start.
They are likely to be coming into week 4 at 1-2, facing the Cowboys at the Meadowlands.
If Jones is staring then, he's going to get booed. And based on history and talent, the Cowboys are going to blow out the Giants..again...at home.
Jones won't survive that. Not that it wouldn't happen with Lock or DeVito, but at least if you bench DJ, you could put him back at QB after that game.
If not, if Daboll is stubborn, then team may start collapsing at that point, risking Daboll's (and possibly Schoen's) job. If you thought the Eli benching was a firestorm, that will be just a match compared to a Dallas blowout after a DJ start.
Why cant they best the Browns?
If you bench jones, thats it. You cant yo-yo back and forth
Too soon. His Godfather, Johnny Mara, won't allow it. If we lose on Sunday (though I'm predicting a win), the change may happen before the Dallas game. Did Lock or Cutlets even get any first team snaps this week? That might give us some insights.
I think he’ll show enough this week, win or lose, to keep in the lineup. I do believe, however, that he may get benched if he plays lousy against Dallas. I think that’ll be the game.
Quote:
In comment 16607583 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
took him 6 seasons to replace Garoppolo and it was 2 chances, 1 was trading up to get trey lance and the other was Brock Purdy
You may recall that the 49ers went to the Super Bowl in Garoppolo's first full/healthy season with them in 2019. After he got hurt again in 2020, they made the trades to draft Lance in the 2021 draft, and a year later used a 6th round pick on Purdy.
Maybe you can call that "luck" but again the Giants have made ZERO attempts at improving the QB position in six years.
and thats all Schoens fault? Did he not evaluate the QBs this year and try to trade up?
Were there other options? Were there three QBs sitting there for the Giants at #6? Were there developmental QBs sitting there in every subsequent round of the draft?
There were five QBs drafted in rounds 5-7.
The thing about luck is that you actually have to place a bet on something for it to pay off. A (predictably) failed attempt to trade up for ONE specific QB is not really a serious attempt to upgrade the position.
Quote:
In comment 16607598 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 16607583 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
took him 6 seasons to replace Garoppolo and it was 2 chances, 1 was trading up to get trey lance and the other was Brock Purdy
You may recall that the 49ers went to the Super Bowl in Garoppolo's first full/healthy season with them in 2019. After he got hurt again in 2020, they made the trades to draft Lance in the 2021 draft, and a year later used a 6th round pick on Purdy.
Maybe you can call that "luck" but again the Giants have made ZERO attempts at improving the QB position in six years.
and thats all Schoens fault? Did he not evaluate the QBs this year and try to trade up?
Were there other options? Were there three QBs sitting there for the Giants at #6? Were there developmental QBs sitting there in every subsequent round of the draft?
There were five QBs drafted in rounds 5-7.
The thing about luck is that you actually have to place a bet on something for it to pay off. A (predictably) failed attempt to trade up for ONE specific QB is not really a serious attempt to upgrade the position.
So if he drsft JJ you would be saying he drsfted Damaged goods and Jones is still starting..
Penix is not even playing with Kirk Cousons looking like crap..
and Bo Nix had a good preseason and then a terrible firs tgame which everyone would be saying Schoen made a mistake..
am i wrong?
And no I dont think he gets benched
Then Daboll can and will be fired. Doubtful to ever regain another HC opportunity. If he's okay with that, so be it.
Schoen may not be the guy, but damn some people jist want to churn out GMs and then will blame Mara for interfering...
So whcih is it? Mara or Schoen..
I'm with you, I too am tired of churning through GM's and HC's, but there is little evidence to date to show that Schoen is up to the job. Other than maybe JMS, his OL picks have been brutally bad. His first 2 drafts have netted 2 very good players, and that's including 2 top 10 picks.
There appears to be some hope with this class, but we've all said that before. If he and Daboll can somehow get this season back on track, even if it's only to win 7 or 8 games, I think they'll be back. 5 or 6, I think only one of them will be back, 4 or less, it's another housecleaning.
So if he drsft JJ you would be saying he drsfted Damaged goods and Jones is still starting..
Penix is not even playing with Kirk Cousons looking like crap..
and Bo Nix had a good preseason and then a terrible firs tgame which everyone would be saying Schoen made a mistake..
am i wrong?
Yes, you are.
If they had drafted JJM that would have been bad luck initially with the injury.
Penix was never going to start over Cousins to start the season, so evaluating that selection is impossible, but I would love it if the Giants could turn to him right now instead of Drew Lock or the Jersey Meme QB.
Nix has made one NFL start.
Quote:
So if he drsft JJ you would be saying he drsfted Damaged goods and Jones is still starting..
Penix is not even playing with Kirk Cousons looking like crap..
and Bo Nix had a good preseason and then a terrible firs tgame which everyone would be saying Schoen made a mistake..
am i wrong?
Yes, you are.
If they had drafted JJM that would have been bad luck initially with the injury.
Penix was never going to start over Cousins to start the season, so evaluating that selection is impossible, but I would love it if the Giants could turn to him right now instead of Drew Lock or the Jersey Meme QB.
Nix has made one NFL start.
I shouldnt of saod you personally i meant you in the general sense of this board who overreacts to every little thing
Just wait. Just wait until people realize that Schoen has left this team and its season no better or only slightly better alternatives in Lock & DeVito
Whenever this benching or injury occurs to Jones
Quote:
In comment 16607583 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16607581 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 16607564 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16607550 ThomasG said:
Quote:
the poor evaluation/contract decisions they have made on Jones.
However, while we should never forget that fact, it must be viewed as a sunk cost right now and the only thought should be to get him out of the picture immediately.
Continuing to let DJ start games is absolutely ludicrous.
So should John Lynch have been fired for signing Garoppolo and draft trey lance?
John Lynch has made many attempts to improve the QB position with the 49ers.
The Giants have not drafted or attempted to acquire a legitimate alternative to Jones in 6 years.
took him 6 seasons to replace Garoppolo and it was 2 chances, 1 was trading up to get trey lance and the other was Brock Purdy
So you agree he took too long to replace his QB. And when he did that is when he started figuring out solutions.
Schoen should take notice.
Jones has be3n QB for Schoen for 2 years, this is yesr 3 and you want him fired over it, you arent giving him a chance to mvoe on
And he signed Jones to that awful contract (mistake 1)
And he agreed to the terrible injury cause (mistake 2)
And he has taken 0 QBs in the draft (mistake 3)
And he failed to improve the QB depth behind Jones (mistake 4)
As was said last week Daniel Jones is an anvil tied around Schoen's neck that and he refuses to cut the rope.
Should he get benched? Yes. 1,968 days ago and counting.
My guess is, if he plays like he has since he signed that contract, his last play as a starter will be at the end of the second quarter next week in Cleveland. I cannot see him starting that Cowboys game on 9/26 in front of a majority of euphoric Cowboys fans and a minority of disgusted Giants fans.
Self-preservation and denial are generally defeated soundly by embarrassment and humiliation.
Quote:
In comment 16607600 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
In comment 16607598 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 16607583 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
took him 6 seasons to replace Garoppolo and it was 2 chances, 1 was trading up to get trey lance and the other was Brock Purdy
You may recall that the 49ers went to the Super Bowl in Garoppolo's first full/healthy season with them in 2019. After he got hurt again in 2020, they made the trades to draft Lance in the 2021 draft, and a year later used a 6th round pick on Purdy.
Maybe you can call that "luck" but again the Giants have made ZERO attempts at improving the QB position in six years.
and thats all Schoens fault? Did he not evaluate the QBs this year and try to trade up?
Were there other options? Were there three QBs sitting there for the Giants at #6? Were there developmental QBs sitting there in every subsequent round of the draft?
There were five QBs drafted in rounds 5-7.
The thing about luck is that you actually have to place a bet on something for it to pay off. A (predictably) failed attempt to trade up for ONE specific QB is not really a serious attempt to upgrade the position.
So if he drsft JJ you would be saying he drsfted Damaged goods and Jones is still starting..
Penix is not even playing with Kirk Cousons looking like crap..
and Bo Nix had a good preseason and then a terrible firs tgame which everyone would be saying Schoen made a mistake..
am i wrong?
There is no reason to believe if the Giants had drafted JJ he would have gotten injured. Those two things are unrelated.
Kirk Cousins is a good QB and Penix was drafted to sit behind Cousins for this year. So no surprise Penix is sitting behind Cousins even though Cousins didn't have a good first game.
Just wait. Just wait until people realize that Schoen has left this team and its season no better or only slightly better alternatives in Lock & DeVito
Whenever this benching or injury occurs to Jones
Just wait until people realize what a terrible job Schoen has done building this roster.
We have control over effort, some control over ability, and little control over luck.
But if you don't make the effort, then there is no opportunity to benefit from the luck.
It's not about missing on the QB, it's about quadrupling down on the miss.
I said since the end of last season running it back with Jones would cost people their jobs. JS' own son warned him on HK "there's only 32 of these jobs. Take a QB"
Kirk Cousins is a good QB and Penix was drafted to sit behind Cousins for this year. So no surprise Penix is sitting behind Cousins even though Cousins didn't have a good first game.
Dream scenario if you want the entire Giants franchise to be embarrassed is that Penix takes over for Cousins sometime mid-season and lights the Giants up in Week 16.
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Kirk Cousins is a good QB and Penix was drafted to sit behind Cousins for this year. So no surprise Penix is sitting behind Cousins even though Cousins didn't have a good first game.
Dream scenario if you want the entire Giants franchise to be embarrassed is that Penix takes over for Cousins sometime mid-season and lights the Giants up in Week 16.
BBI would have a melt down. Myself included.
Just wait. Just wait until people realize that Schoen has left this team and its season no better or only slightly better alternatives in Lock & DeVito
Whenever this benching or injury occurs to Jones
Exactly. When Jones gets benched I'm going to be even more pissed. The backups are no better, and that was by design in order not to challenge him.
I don't know what to root for anymore. One win here followed by losing 5 of 6 won't do anyone good.
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Because right now the anger is over Daniel Jones still starting so people are calling for his benching
Just wait. Just wait until people realize that Schoen has left this team and its season no better or only slightly better alternatives in Lock & DeVito
Whenever this benching or injury occurs to Jones
Exactly. When Jones gets benched I'm going to be even more pissed. The backups are no better, and that was by design in order not to challenge him.
+2.
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In comment 16607662 compton said:
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Kirk Cousins is a good QB and Penix was drafted to sit behind Cousins for this year. So no surprise Penix is sitting behind Cousins even though Cousins didn't have a good first game.
Dream scenario if you want the entire Giants franchise to be embarrassed is that Penix takes over for Cousins sometime mid-season and lights the Giants up in Week 16.
BBI would have a melt down. Myself included.
Not me. Penix has a huge injury history. No way would I have taken him at #6. The better criticism of Schoen, the scouts, and the FO will be if JJM or Nix become franchise-level QBs, especially if they both do.
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"lucked in" by getting Purdy.
But somebody on SF evaluated him as a prospect. And somebody said let's draft him before that draft was over. And somebody gave him snaps during camp and noticed that he had something in his game. And somebody let him make the roster. And somebody eventually got him into games and helped him develop even further.
Luck?
Purdy was a 7th round pick - Mr Irrelevant, right? In order for him to play two QBs above him got hurt. That is bad luck, or he'd still be (possibly) on the bench.
So yes, it is luck. That is not to denigrate Brock. But the 49ers took a flier on their last pick of the draft. They were in a position (excellent team structure) to roll the dice. If they thought he was so good, he would have been drafted earlier - say the 4th round.
Obviously now, it seems a no brainer.
Some of you need to read the story of about when they first started seeing Purdy that summer. They started to realize he was stronger than the guys ahead of him on the depth chart and they knew they had a good/bad problem to deal with.
Of course some of drafting is luck, but I that doesn't mean some level of luck isn't with every prospect either, first round or last round. Also Purdy is Niner just like Brady was a Patriot because somebody in those orgs saw something. And that isn't all luck.
Playing Jones one more snap is ludicrous.
Schoen should be fired for a host of reasons but the primary one is a failure to do the most basic of his job : protect the franchise
It was irresponsible of any GM to go into a season with what we know of Daniel Jones and his proven history as a QB and as an injury risk and leave this team with these alternatives at the position
The fanbase has finally awakened on Jones and will soon connect the dots to say how did our experts not know this and then once they see Lock & DeVito - how could you expose the franchise like this?
Fields/ Winston/ Darnold/ Wilson/ DTR/ Willis...
All flawed options and probably not the answer- but why not find out? Especially if they put up with this poor play and refuse to go to Devito or Lock.
It might cost them their jobs.
Different starting QBs for home and away games.
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with Jones. He should be fired if he can't seem to move on from Jones and right now that is what we are witnessing.
Playing Jones one more snap is ludicrous.
Schoen should be fired for a host of reasons but the primary one is a failure to do the most basic of his job : protect the franchise
It was irresponsible of any GM to go into a season with what we know of Daniel Jones and his proven history as a QB and as an injury risk and leave this team with these alternatives at the position
The fanbase has finally awakened on Jones and will soon connect the dots to say how did our experts not know this and then once they see Lock & DeVito - how could you expose the franchise like this?
Football malpractice. And I think there’s something to not wanting upset poor Daniel with actual competition.
I’m beyond disgusted with this franchise.
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with Jones. He should be fired if he can't seem to move on from Jones and right now that is what we are witnessing.
Playing Jones one more snap is ludicrous.
Schoen should be fired for a host of reasons but the primary one is a failure to do the most basic of his job : protect the franchise
It was irresponsible of any GM to go into a season with what we know of Daniel Jones and his proven history as a QB and as an injury risk and leave this team with these alternatives at the position
The fanbase has finally awakened on Jones and will soon connect the dots to say how did our experts not know this and then once they see Lock & DeVito - how could you expose the franchise like this?
Yep, agreed.
Yet the scholars on this thread and others will say Schoen tried to get Maye; Jones needs a few more games to knock off the rust; the WRs got little separation; the Giants need time to move on from DJ; no one wants to see Lock or DeVito play, etc.
Reach into the BAG OF EXCUSES and pull out one that you like this week.
Meanwhile, we get Daniel Jones on Sunday. Again.
- Ben Franklin
Purdy was a direct result of a franchise that is not complacent and values competition and even at the expense of the “franchise QB” or “face of the team” or whatever these unearned terms are supposed to mean.
They found luck because they were looking for it. They relentlessly pursued the QB position .
They valued honesty and evaluation over fragile egos and heirarchy.
They spent a 7th rd pick because someone liked something in Purdy. But they liked him because someone spent enough time on him because someone knew their time wouldn’t be wasted. Etc etc down the line
They knew there was no “sorry Jimmy G got us to a Super Bowl “, sorry Jimmy G is getting 100 mil, sorry we spent the 3 pick on Trey Lance, sorry we traded alot for Lance, sorry we have too many QBs, etc etc
Its lucky that Purdy slipped through 31 teams cracks in evaluation to get to the spot the 49ers were willing to spend a pick on him. Its lucky that he is this good.
Its not lucky that the 49ers value the QB spot and will continually keep searching even if they have QBs.
- Ben Franklin
Purdy was a direct result of a franchise that is not complacent and values competition and even at the expense of the “franchise QB” or “face of the team” or whatever these unearned terms are supposed to mean.
They found luck because they were looking for it. They relentlessly pursued the QB position .
They valued honesty and evaluation over fragile egos and heirarchy.
They spent a 7th rd pick because someone liked something in Purdy. But they liked him because someone spent enough time on him because someone knew their time wouldn’t be wasted. Etc etc down the line
They knew there was no “sorry Jimmy G got us to a Super Bowl “, sorry Jimmy G is getting 100 mil, sorry we spent the 3 pick on Trey Lance, sorry we traded alot for Lance, sorry we have too many QBs, etc etc
Its lucky that Purdy slipped through 31 teams cracks in evaluation to get to the spot the 49ers were willing to spend a pick on him. Its lucky that he is this good.
Its not lucky that the 49ers value the QB spot and will continually keep searching even if they have QBs.
They "relentlessly" pursued the QB position? Really?
in 18, 19, 20 they didnt draft a QB, in 21 they traded up for lance and in 22 they took a flier on a 7th round pick..
Thats relentlessly pursuing the QB position?
My fear is that I am starting to doubt that Schoen and staff even with a top five pick are competent to draft our next successful franchise quarterback. So I am sick of the Jones posts and not disagreeing with the well thought out criticisms but I believe we are beating a dead horse. I am so despairing about this team that I almost don't want to watch this potential train wreck of a season .. again.
- Ben Franklin
Purdy was a direct result of a franchise that is not complacent and values competition and even at the expense of the “franchise QB” or “face of the team” or whatever these unearned terms are supposed to mean.
They found luck because they were looking for it. They relentlessly pursued the QB position .
They valued honesty and evaluation over fragile egos and heirarchy.
They spent a 7th rd pick because someone liked something in Purdy. But they liked him because someone spent enough time on him because someone knew their time wouldn’t be wasted. Etc etc down the line
They knew there was no “sorry Jimmy G got us to a Super Bowl “, sorry Jimmy G is getting 100 mil, sorry we spent the 3 pick on Trey Lance, sorry we traded alot for Lance, sorry we have too many QBs, etc etc
Its lucky that Purdy slipped through 31 teams cracks in evaluation to get to the spot the 49ers were willing to spend a pick on him. Its lucky that he is this good.
Its not lucky that the 49ers value the QB spot and will continually keep searching even if they have QBs.
The last pick of the draft? LUCK
They will run around this dance until Devito plays better than Jones but then gets hurt. Then Jones is their guy.
So, they take some comfort in that and conclude they are not alone and feel better about things. And it may just take time for Jones to find his timing and confidence coming off a long layoff and injury.
Unless he gets hurt, I think he has a long runway this season.
We are just in the most bizarre place with the most bizarre people making decisions...
If Jones is staring then, he's going to get booed. And based on history and talent, the Cowboys are going to blow out the Giants..again...at home.
Jones won't survive that. Not that it wouldn't happen with Lock or DeVito, but at least if you bench DJ, you could put him back at QB after that game.
If not, if Daboll is stubborn, then team may start collapsing at that point, risking Daboll's (and possibly Schoen's) job. If you thought the Eli benching was a firestorm, that will be just a match compared to a Dallas blowout after a DJ start.
If Jones is staring then, he's going to get booed. And based on history and talent, the Cowboys are going to blow out the Giants..again...at home.
Jones won't survive that. Not that it wouldn't happen with Lock or DeVito, but at least if you bench DJ, you could put him back at QB after that game.
If not, if Daboll is stubborn, then team may start collapsing at that point, risking Daboll's (and possibly Schoen's) job. If you thought the Eli benching was a firestorm, that will be just a match compared to a Dallas blowout after a DJ start.
Why cant they best the Browns?
You get that bullet one time.
This.
Eventually, but probably not this week.
Hence why they struggle identifying the QB. Kyle has the problem his dad does.
Great at using the talent he gets but questionable about evaluating and selecting that talent.