Does anyone have confidence this regime turns things around?

Bad vibes from Daboll last Sunday
Schoen’s huge mistake was Jones contract .
Plus jury out on his draft picks last 3 years

Because entering the season I thought both were decent, but ultimately would be sunk because of Jones. While I haven't advocated for their firing, I believed it to be highly probable, but would be a mistake. I'm no longer thinking it would be a mistake

I really can't help thinking there's something inherently wrong in the Giants ownership/front office, because we keep going through GMs and coaches, and now we're basically the Browns of not long ago.

We can't REALLY be going through that many poor choices at GM/HC, can we? This is the 3rd? 4th? set now.

In comment 16608035 Jack Stroud said:

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In comment 16607919 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: No. I’m completely out on how they handled the QB position. Football malpractice on steroids. You are giving the defense that got carved up by Sam Darnold a pass?

The defense would have had to held the Vikings to 5 points in order to win that game.

Pretty tall task against anyone.

In comment 16608037 Mike from Ohio said:

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but I have a great deal of doubt about them both. I want to see if they can pull their heads out of their asses on this Jones thing, or if they are both just going to continue to fiddle while Rome burns. It's time for them both to do something beyond waiting, hoping and trying.

I'm sort of with you although the fact that Daboll didn't budge one inch on Jones this week doesn't bode well. We'll see. Hard to imagine Jones hanging in longer than the next game or 2 or 3.

In comment 16607933 johnnyb said:

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offensive mind and play caller. We heard time and time again how, during training camp, the Giants were focused on stretching the defense. Maybe I missed it, but when exactly did DJ throw a ball more than 20 yards??

That wasn't because of scheme or playcalling. There were several longer passes there to be thrown, they just didn't get thrown.

Your QB is in year two of a $160M contract, and on the eve of the season everyone sees management and the coach doubting him.

Daniel Jones sucks, but what kind of management is that?

Schoen and Daboll are both incompetent. The sooner they go, the better.

I was pretty much out last year, but I left just enough in the tank to have a glimmer for this season. Well, that all got sucked dry last week. We have a stubborn coach that can't see the writing on the wall. We have 52 other players on that team besides Daniel Jones and he owes it to them at this point to try something else. Do something, maybe it doesn't work, but continuing this madness is going to lose the team and eventually his job. Prove us wrong, but it won't happen. He is too prideful. Gotta go! DONE WITH DABS #DWD!

Dabes, no. But it's early in the season still.

This is a pivotal season, and I think 1 game is way too small a sample size. I'm going to give it at least 8 games to judge Daboll/Schoen on this.

casts more and more doubt on the competence of the people running this organization. The rationalization that they simply know more than us and we should defer to their judgment has been proven false. The only question left is how long it takes them to admit the reality of what everyone outside the Giants offices sees, and has seen for a while.

They can't go fast enough...

Say throw everyone out. I think they should have done more than merely sign Drew Lock, as it has been clear since week one of last year that Jones isn’t a solution here. I just don’t get why they keep starting a guy everyone know is awful and expecting different results, that’s the.Very definition of insanity. I think Schoen and Dabs can dig themselves out of the hole they are in IF they move on from Jones earlier than too late, I literally give him the 1st half of next week and if he looks like he has then you pull the plug and send a message to the team at half time so you don’t lose the whole locker room.

We know the saying that a good QB elevates the play of everyone around him. It’s equally true that a bad QB makes everyone around him look worse as well. We got to see some positive improvements last year when Taylor and Cutlets took over, I think you need to go that route sooner than later before the season gets away. Everyone can see the fork sticking out of Jones back, if Dabs and Schoen refuse to admit it and take the necessary action then they will crash and burn with him.

The embarrassing optics this past Sunday followed up by the expected humiliation at home on 9/26 in prime time against the Cowboys will be fatal. The best next step is to fully align a new GM/Coach/Quarterback and begin again in 2025. Anything else is a half measure and history will simply repeat itself. Hopefully the pain that is about to be exacted on this franchise will be the motivating spur that gets them to their Pete Rozelle/George Young moment.

that at the end of the year, Season Ticket owners will be getting a free small Diet Pepsi, so there's that...

after this to prove their worth. That said, it’ll be with a newly drafted QB too and so their fates IMHO will be based off of how they do with that one individual, rightly or wrongly.

In comment 16608130 Simms11 said:

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after this to prove their worth. That said, it’ll be with a newly drafted QB too and so their fates IMHO will be based off of how they do with that one individual, rightly or wrongly.

This organization absolutely can't be allowed to pick a QB at this stage if getting fired is on the table. Why would you want them to pick a QB and then hire a new GM/HC and have them start off with a guy they didn't pick?

If Schoen and Daboll are back in 2025 they should both be extended through 2026 at minimum. It means the front office likes what they have seen these past few years.

I saw that doo doo on the field last week. Thought maybe we could be competitive or look somewhat competent. It was brutal to watch.

Poor self-scouts who choose hope and denial over the harder path, willing to test the insanity definition over and over, total bro fest on HK where Schoen sure seemed overwhelmed, huge whiff on the QB where they've doubled and tripled down, and the gameday product continues to not only stink, but demonstrate historic ineptness.

Scary right now, from Jones on down the line.

In comment 16608055 Go Terps said:

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Your QB is in year two of a $160M contract, and on the eve of the season everyone sees management and the coach doubting him. Daniel Jones sucks, but what kind of management is that? Schoen and Daboll are both incompetent. The sooner they go, the better.

you know i hadnt really thought of it that way and when i had i think i brushed it off, but given how things appear to be going that's a really good point. i expected that everyone knows management conversations like that go on in every draft room but considering most of the guys on the team are 21-26 years old who knows. nabers is 20. between how they treated barkley and how willing they were to dump jones id imagine it makes it easier to make business decisions yourself.

EVERYONE is on board with starting COMPLETELY over. They means completely turning over the roster, starting
G from scratch. That means trading away Dex and AT for draft picks, new systems, new schemes, new coaching.
That DOES mean more years of losing- a lot!

In comment 16608183 Dave on the UWS said:

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EVERYONE is on board with starting COMPLETELY over. They means completely turning over the roster, starting G from scratch. That means trading away Dex and AT for draft picks, new systems, new schemes, new coaching. That DOES mean more years of losing- a lot!

Starting completely over is what's been needed for a decade.

Greenfield this team.

I think we are a QB away from being pretty productive. I like the young WR group we have, think Theo will be good, and it looks like the OL is at least average. If we just had a good QB to drive the ship I think we'd score.

On defense we have some really good young pieces. I think we need to give Bowen a few games to pull it all together.

You're looking at a team that started completely over right now (but made a QB mistake). I don't see this far off from the start of Shanahan and Lynch and how they started out.

49ers were garbage for the start of those two careers' together (random SB run in there). 29-35 over the first 4 years of that duo. First draft class is still the scouts from the last regime - they took Solomon Thomas #3, massive bust, and Reuben Foster in the first who played 16 games, also bust. Garoppolo trade mess that didn't work out. Kept churning though. 2nd QB disaster with Lance. Made it work.

Daboll got wins with DeVito even though the DJ contract stained the season. Starting over again I think would be a mistakes. Preaching patience.

In comment 16608055 Go Terps said:

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Your QB is in year two of a $160M contract, and on the eve of the season everyone sees management and the coach doubting him. Daniel Jones sucks, but what kind of management is that? Schoen and Daboll are both incompetent. The sooner they go, the better.

I am very concerned with the Wink drama and departure. Wink worked in a very professional environment for a long time. He’s not some sort of a crazy man. And he couldn’t tell his side of the story after his departure. We are being fed one side of the story, which is always a recipe for misunderstanding.

To me, how his departure ends up being understood is vital to the Giants story.

Nabers was the right pick, and they at least tried to get a QB but did not let themselves get fleeced by NE or reach on a lesser prospect. Burns trade was good value. AT and Dex contracts were sharp. Okereke has been one of the teams beat signings over the last decade. They’ve found guys like Pinnock on the waiver wire.

One thing that stands out to me as bad is the drafting/development of draft picks. The first class is looking worse by the day, and besides Banks the 2023 class isn’t looking much better. 2024 at least has shown some promise - but still along ways out from being able to make an accurate assessment on that one.

I’m confident in Daboll. Schoen’s draft classes need to start showing that they are simply better than above average.

Coach would have the team so underprepared for week one again this year. Then it happened. I’m out.

Giants are not winning many games in 2024. Doubt if they will catch the Eagles in the years ahead.

In comment 16607976 Chef said:

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this team was completely unprepared last Sunday... again... considering week one last year how can that happen? They answer is no I am afraid...

Same here. The fact they didn’t score a first quarter TD all last season and again this past Sunday goes to being unprepared as well.

By Jones, sure.

He's a coach killer.

In comment 16608038 Jack Stroud said:

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In comment 16607939 Eli2020 said: Quote: Get a QB like Cam Ward, and they'll look like geniuses by 2026. But without the QB... they cannot do it. Very few coaches can do it without one. Case in point: Andy Reid Billy B. Harbaugh Its very rare to have a team like the 49ers or even what Tomlin has pulled out of his ass the past few years. So, you think bringing in a rookie qb will turn things around? Do you believe a rookie qb can succeed with this current roster?

Sorry they can't keep DJ around while they rebuild the team?

Get off it. If you can't see the biggest problem here, you're lost

on the relevant chains of command and ownership involvement. It would be nice if we could pin Jones entirely on Daboll and Schoen; if it we could be confident that he was entirely their decision and their guy, then they should be gone, simple as that.

But it's hard to genuinely believe Jones isn't fixed constraint imposed by Mara. Mara's constantly apologies for an otherwise terrible NFL quarterback, the utterly absurd leash he's gotten (6 years? 3 years isn't enough to figure out whether a QB is genuinely good or not, regardless of the circumstances? 6? Really?), and the clear evidence from Hard Knocks and other media outlets that they were trying to move up for QBs suggest that Schoen and Daboll have had their hands tied.

What a mess. I don't think they're blameless and I do question some of Schoen's choices, but the roster has gotten better. There are more than enough tools on offense for a good quarterback to do some damage with. Bad quarterbacking makes an entire team look bad; in fact, it makes sober roster analysis and self-scouting hard because of the bad positions the QB places us in. Is it any coincidence that the team looked much better when Taylor and DeVito were playing? (and they at best were below average QBs, not good ones).

If this ownership actually had brains and balls (they lack both; what they have is a maudlin attachment to an imaginary past where an aw shucks QB with the right "look" and family values represents an upstanding organization), then they'd give Schoen and Daboll a chance with their own QB.

Schoen
- No vision for a team
- Builds and leads by consensus
- Horrendous negotiator
- LOL Daniel Jones contract
- Whiffed on two picks in the top 7 of a draft
- Misallocation of cap resources toward backup OL caliber players instead of playmakers

Daboll
- Wink nightmare
- Unprepared in season openers
- Doesn’t let the OC call plays; despite sucking at it himself
- Poor decisions on coordinators, coaches, training staff
- ryanmkeane likes him (kiss of death)

and don’t get me started on Mara.

In comment 16608187 Go Terps said:

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In comment 16608183 Dave on the UWS said: Quote: EVERYONE is on board with starting COMPLETELY over. They means completely turning over the roster, starting G from scratch. That means trading away Dex and AT for draft picks, new systems, new schemes, new coaching. That DOES mean more years of losing- a lot! Starting completely over is what's been needed for a decade. Greenfield this team.

Both Gettleman and Schoen turned over the roster. Schoen brought in his own player eval guys. He's just made the wrong decisions.

Schoen made the wrong decision on Jones. If not the wrong decision on bringing him back certainly the wrong method of doing so.

Schoen missed on two top ten picks and got the QB wrong. His drafts have also been very bleh. Fair or not that probably sinks his ship.

A weird comparison is when I watched LSU lose to USC a few weeks ago. Brian Kelly made sure he saved all 3 timeouts - too bad he got the ball back with only seconds left on the clock. He had the ball, down 3, marched deep into USC territory and could have decided "this is the last offensive position of the game". 3rd and 8, in the RZ, his offense is a mess pre-snap...doesn't call a TO. I was shocked. Played for the FG and let USC have the last meaningful offensive possession of the game.

What does that have to do with this Giants regime? Nothing really at all aside from eliciting the same reaction from me. Schoen has seemed patient until the Burns splash trade, but we're one week into year 3 and no one (apparently even Tim McDonnell) can tell what this teams identity is. Patience at QB means you're entering year 4 (if you get it) with your backs against the wall...you spent all this time not forcing a QB pick only to find yourself in a situation where, lets be real, they will force the QB pick.

Schoen has projected extreme calculation to this point but when you step back and look at this from 30,000 feet up you ask yourself - what has it yielded? All of the sudden this regime finds itself in its own version of the 4th quarter.

The truth is though, even good GM's make mistakes, some significant. Its the brutally honest course correction that separates these guys imo (and why I begrudgingly respect the Eagles FO)

One of the biggest sins for me is not opening up camp with an open competition at QB. Daniel Jones had a second neck injury, tears his ACL, plays poorly injuries aside, you badmouth him on Hard Knocks (he stinks but way to shit on your guy publicly) and after all of that.....YOU HAND HIM THE JOB?

If they lose the locker room it'll rest squarely on their shoulders. You've drafted no one at QB, didn't even bring Lock in to challenge for the job (which is why they missed out on Russell Wilson who they were shockingly confident would want to sign up as Jones backup)

The handling of the QB position this offseason is so wildly incompetent I really question these guys.

Daboll is not far behind for me. Other than the 6-1 start he got this team off to in his first 7 games by dumbing down the offense, he has been just another McAdoo, Shurmur or Judge. Players continue to play well beneath their draft status, the offense can’t move, and the team often looks unprepared and undisciplined.

Daboll right now is still loving off the first half of the 2020 season, because since then this team has been terrible.

In comment 16608405 Ash_3 said:

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on the relevant chains of command and ownership involvement. It would be nice if we could pin Jones entirely on Daboll and Schoen; if it we could be confident that he was entirely their decision and their guy, then they should be gone, simple as that. But it's hard to genuinely believe Jones isn't fixed constraint imposed by Mara. Mara's constantly apologies for an otherwise terrible NFL quarterback, the utterly absurd leash he's gotten (6 years? 3 years isn't enough to figure out whether a QB is genuinely good or not, regardless of the circumstances? 6? Really?), and the clear evidence from Hard Knocks and other media outlets that they were trying to move up for QBs suggest that Schoen and Daboll have had their hands tied. What a mess. I don't think they're blameless and I do question some of Schoen's choices, but the roster has gotten better. There are more than enough tools on offense for a good quarterback to do some damage with. Bad quarterbacking makes an entire team look bad; in fact, it makes sober roster analysis and self-scouting hard because of the bad positions the QB places us in. Is it any coincidence that the team looked much better when Taylor and DeVito were playing? (and they at best were below average QBs, not good ones). If this ownership actually had brains and balls (they lack both; what they have is a maudlin attachment to an imaginary past where an aw shucks QB with the right "look" and family values represents an upstanding organization), then they'd give Schoen and Daboll a chance with their own QB.

Very good assessment of the situation. I am not out on Schoen and Daboll...yet. I firmly believe and have stated many times, that I can't see how any professional front office and/or coach could analyze the career of Daniel Jones and say "this is our guy". I think Schoen and Dabbes still need a chance with their own QB. However, the possibility of doing that existed this year and they chose to pass. That gives me concern.

Confidence? No. Hope? Yes.

It's in the realm of possibilities.

Both of them have qualities, what they haven't shown yet, imo, is the humility to learn from mistakes and move on from them.

In comment 16608405 Ash_3 said:

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on the relevant chains of command and ownership involvement. It would be nice if we could pin Jones entirely on Daboll and Schoen; if it we could be confident that he was entirely their decision and their guy, then they should be gone, simple as that. But it's hard to genuinely believe Jones isn't fixed constraint imposed by Mara. Mara's constantly apologies for an otherwise terrible NFL quarterback, the utterly absurd leash he's gotten (6 years? 3 years isn't enough to figure out whether a QB is genuinely good or not, regardless of the circumstances? 6? Really?), and the clear evidence from Hard Knocks and other media outlets that they were trying to move up for QBs suggest that Schoen and Daboll have had their hands tied. What a mess. I don't think they're blameless and I do question some of Schoen's choices, but the roster has gotten better. There are more than enough tools on offense for a good quarterback to do some damage with. Bad quarterbacking makes an entire team look bad; in fact, it makes sober roster analysis and self-scouting hard because of the bad positions the QB places us in. Is it any coincidence that the team looked much better when Taylor and DeVito were playing? (and they at best were below average QBs, not good ones). If this ownership actually had brains and balls (they lack both; what they have is a maudlin attachment to an imaginary past where an aw shucks QB with the right "look" and family values represents an upstanding organization), then they'd give Schoen and Daboll a chance with their own QB.

I agree with this 100%. I am surprised so many here are falling for the nonsense from the Mara family mouthpieces trying to deflect blame to Schoen and Daboll.

Also, to all the posters here that say the Wink implosion is a negative against Daboll, give me a freakin break. Wink is an AWFUL defensive coordinator. And he's an asshole. He was shit-canned in Baltimore for the same reasons he was shit-canned here.

The only think you can fault Daboll for regarding Wink is that he was hired in the first place. But Wink being an asshole because his defenses were an embarrassment? And then Wink using his no-talent lackeys to undercut Daboll? That is somehow Daboll's fault?!?

Daboll has his faults (more than Schoen IMO) but kicking Martindale to the curb ain't one of them.

Which was not much, was shot with all the nonsense I saw on Hard Knocks.

Yeah the Martindale sentimentality is rich.

is evidence of bad management. period.

was it a bad decision to bring him in to begin with? maybe. Daboll gets the blame any way you slice it. the guy can’t change minds. he doesn’t get along well with others when there is disagreement. he doesn’t inspire jack shit. Kafka is basically a prisoner and would leave tomorrow if he could.

if the Wink thing were the only knock on Daboll, then it’d be curious. but it’s one of many pieces of extremely concerning evidence that the guy is just a loudmouth who looked decent because of Josh Allen.

In comment 16607941 GiantBlue said:

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At this point, with the lackeys Mara has brought in since Coughlin and Accorsi/Reese, they need a big name to bring back hope and respect. That big name is Bill Belichek. Love him or hate him, he would bring respect back to the Giants; even if he were just a figurehead. I mentioned bringing in a Jon Gruden as head coach or someone like him who has had success and a reputation for winning.

Just like Phil Jackson brought respect back to the Knicks?

His sidekick Ross who he promoted twice is in the USFL (Ross). JM sided with Reese and had been doing so for years before TC's removal. After a few years, JR was exposed.

Wink didn't handle it right at the end but I put more of it on Daboll for allowing it to get to that point and then how he handled it after that. Wink seemed to not respect him imv.

In comment 16608035 Jack Stroud said:

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In comment 16607919 SFGFNCGiantsFan said: Quote: No. I’m completely out on how they handled the QB position. Football malpractice on steroids. You are giving the defense that got carved up by Sam Darnold a pass?

The defense was definitely not great but they gave the ball to the offense early in the game. Jones, as usual, couldn't score a TD in the red zone (though we're probably lucky he didn't throw a pick).

At some point it has to become utterly dispiriting to know you're going to lose because you have a QB who simply doesn't belong in the league.

the punter might be forced into kicking duty because no precautions were taken in the face of Gano's groin injury.

No, there is no cause for confidence. Fire these dopes and bring in professionals.

In comment 16609410 Go Terps said:

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the punter might be forced into kicking duty because no precautions were taken in the face of Gano's groin injury. No, there is no cause for confidence. Fire these dopes and bring in professionals.

I’m not watching any pregame, but if that’s true that’s insanity. Especially for a team that had only 51 on the active roster

In comment 16609410 Go Terps said:

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the punter might be forced into kicking duty because no precautions were taken in the face of Gano's groin injury. No, there is no cause for confidence. Fire these dopes and bring in professionals.

You can’t make this shit up.

In comment 16609441 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 16609410 Go Terps said: Quote: the punter might be forced into kicking duty because no precautions were taken in the face of Gano's groin injury. No, there is no cause for confidence. Fire these dopes and bring in professionals. You can’t make this shit up.

And Gano got hurt on the opening kickoff, sounds like he’s done for the day