I am really mixed on Daboll at this point. Some very big positives:
1). How did he get that team to the playoffs in 2022? Unbelievable.
2). 6 wins last year after losing your best offensive player and your starting QB? Amazing.
Overall has outperformed reasonable expectations at a very high level.
But the negatives can't be ignored.
1). Two years in a row team looked utterly unprepared for opening day.
2). Strange roster decisions - i.e. punt returner last year. Sterling Shephard.
3). DJ - I know most blame Schoen or Mara. While we can't know since none of us were there, I think Daboll is most to blame. The regime clearly came in looking to move on from DJ. Daboll squeezed out a miracle year from him. The argument against DJ was that it only worked because Daboll simplified the offense. He still could not play. Daboll was the one that had to make the call. He either thought DJ could play - a huge error - or did not have the guts to tell management - an even bigger error.
I really thought Schoen/Daboll could be a long term fit for us. Just not sure at this point. Results given talent and luck have been remarkably good, even last year. But I am not sure I can get over the errors.
My grade at this point is incomplete. Win loss is A- relative to my expectations when hired. Opening day performance is A+ year one and F- in years 2 & 3. Not sure what to think.
So he lost the team?
But that might wind up being the keyword. A step. Not a leap. And it seems the Giants thought year 1 was a leap.
They played *some* competitive ball last year without Jones. 5-6 with backup and 3rd string QB, a few close losses. Considering the talent level, those are pretty reasonable results.
I'm giving him a pass for now, but the offense needs to find some sign of life this year.
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but the one thing I will add, it is tough for a team to look prepared when your QB can't execute the most basic of plays. Look at last year, once Taylor came in, both units - O and D - looked better.
So he lost the team?
It’s not that, an offense that can’t function puts more stress on the defense. On the field longer and can try to do too much. Daboll losing the team doesn’t jive with them going 3-3 in their final 6.
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In comment 16608084 Section331 said:
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but the one thing I will add, it is tough for a team to look prepared when your QB can't execute the most basic of plays. Look at last year, once Taylor came in, both units - O and D - looked better.
So he lost the team?
It’s not that, an offense that can’t function puts more stress on the defense. On the field longer and can try to do too much. Daboll losing the team doesn’t jive with them going 3-3 in their final 6.
Sorry, meant Jones has lost the team?
My grade for Dabbs is not good. Those two starts back to back have me soured on him.
And that play-calling on Sunday gives me doubts that he should let some one else hanfle that.
and they're worse now than before, your record is your record, nothing else matters in football.
It's hard to overcome really shitty QB play, unless you have a killer run game. Id like to see him get a chance to work with Beck or Ward or someone else with potential, before changing coaches AGAIN.
That he's operating with a hand tied behind his back with the QB situation is the biggest headwind he faces.
-1st Giants drive they methodically march down to the Dallas 13 over 7 minutes in total control on the first drive of the year
-They are stalled on a JMS false snap on 3rd down that Jones controls and it looks like in an easy 3
-FG attempt leads to AT being out for weeks and a Dallas TD
-Ezeudu in for Thomas is a disaster
-Jones hears ghosts from then on while AT is out for weeks, until Jones/Waller/Barkley/JMS/Neal all get hurt
Alas, Jones was unable to take the next step in his progression last year and eventually got hurt. In the games Jones started, the team was 1-5.
Using 2nd and 3rd string QBs, Daboll, however, went 5-6. That's fairly impressive to me, especially with his DC on the verge of mutiny.
I would have gone solid B, but I will ding him for endorsing Schoen's idea to keep and ride with Jones.
Daboll isn't the problem folks. His boss is.
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In comment 16608096 Sec 103 said:
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In comment 16608084 Section331 said:
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but the one thing I will add, it is tough for a team to look prepared when your QB can't execute the most basic of plays. Look at last year, once Taylor came in, both units - O and D - looked better.
So he lost the team?
It’s not that, an offense that can’t function puts more stress on the defense. On the field longer and can try to do too much. Daboll losing the team doesn’t jive with them going 3-3 in their final 6.
Sorry, meant Jones has lost the team?
My grade for Dabbs is not good. Those two starts back to back have me soured on him.
And that play-calling on Sunday gives me doubts that he should let some one else hanfle that.
Sorry about that, I’ve got to think players have doubts about how far Jones can take them, even if they like him personally, but I think that offensive struggles put pressure on the defense. We have a defense that wasn’t great to begin with, but they had to play that way. Tyrod came in and the offense was at least functional, keeping the defense off the field.
Saw some red flags before he was hired and now I see a few more.
Has this year to turn it around and a horrific start. Well below what the next really good or great NYG HC should be imv.
Souring the perfect word to describe how I feel.
Short of installing a shock mechanism that forces Jones to throw the football, what can Daboll do?
I'm going to push back on this a bit. While I think Allen is a prolific talent, Allen has been effusive with praise for Daboll's impact on his game. That's good enough for me.
And while Buffalo has lost good players, they have been able to replace those players because Beane is good at this job and McDermott, especially on the defensive side of the ball, can develop that talent.
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is that he was reportedly on the outs with mcdermott before coming here. buffalo just keeps losing good players to age/injury/cap and assistant coaches and yet they just keep the train moving.
I'm going to push back on this a bit. While I think Allen is a prolific talent, Allen has been effusive with praise for Daboll's impact on his game. That's good enough for me.
And while Buffalo has lost good players, they have been able to replace those players because Beane is good at this job and McDermott, especially on the defensive side of the ball, can develop that talent.
rodgers loves hackett and he's a moron. i think brady liked mcdaniels and he was an abject failure as a leader twice. i dont take away anything daboll did with josh allen, it's the best qb development case study of the modern era, but leading a team/organization is a different animal.
to lifelessly get embarrassed in that way in a home opener for the 2nd year in a row, and this year without any injuries or fluky plays like the blocked fg/thoms injury, is just hard to fathom. darnold was 13/14 for 150 yards and 2 tds in the first half, then marched right down the field to go up 21-3 in the second half. this dabolls 2nd DC and we all remember what happened with the last one. 2 is a coincidence 3 is a pattern.
rodgers loves hackett and he's a moron. i think brady liked mcdaniels and he was an abject failure as a leader twice. i dont take away anything daboll did with josh allen, it's the best qb development case study of the modern era, but leading a team/organization is a different animal.
to lifelessly get embarrassed in that way in a home opener for the 2nd year in a row, and this year without any injuries or fluky plays like the blocked fg/thoms injury, is just hard to fathom. darnold was 13/14 for 150 yards and 2 tds in the first half, then marched right down the field to go up 21-3 in the second half. this dabolls 2nd DC and we all remember what happened with the last one. 2 is a coincidence 3 is a pattern.
And for every one of those examples, there is a Montana who loved Holmgren. A Steve Young who loved Shanahan. A Favre loved Andy Reid.
Sunday was embarrassing. But what do you want the HC to do when the QB in his sixth season still struggles to execute an offense?
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rodgers loves hackett and he's a moron. i think brady liked mcdaniels and he was an abject failure as a leader twice. i dont take away anything daboll did with josh allen, it's the best qb development case study of the modern era, but leading a team/organization is a different animal.
to lifelessly get embarrassed in that way in a home opener for the 2nd year in a row, and this year without any injuries or fluky plays like the blocked fg/thoms injury, is just hard to fathom. darnold was 13/14 for 150 yards and 2 tds in the first half, then marched right down the field to go up 21-3 in the second half. this dabolls 2nd DC and we all remember what happened with the last one. 2 is a coincidence 3 is a pattern.
And for every one of those examples, there is a Montana who loved Holmgren. A Steve Young who loved Shanahan. A Favre loved Andy Reid.
Sunday was embarrassing. But what do you want the HC to do when the QB in his sixth season still struggles to execute an offense?
how about give himself a better alternative at QB than drew lock and field a competitive defense that can stop sam freaking darnold?
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In comment 16608084 Section331 said:
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but the one thing I will add, it is tough for a team to look prepared when your QB can't execute the most basic of plays. Look at last year, once Taylor came in, both units - O and D - looked better.
So he lost the team?
It’s not that, an offense that can’t function puts more stress on the defense. On the field longer and can try to do too much. Daboll losing the team doesn’t jive with them going 3-3 in their final 6.
One of his worst decisions and he made many bad ones last year.
He did not coach well last year and it continues so far this year.
how about give himself a better alternative at QB than drew lock and field a competitive defense that can stop sam freaking darnold?
I was so convinced we were going to win I put a nickel on NYG just because of the Darnold factor. I never dreamed I would see him have a performance like that. The way he handled that 99-yard drive was like watching Matt Stafford.
In fact, I don't think he has had a game like since his rookie year...?
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how about give himself a better alternative at QB than drew lock and field a competitive defense that can stop sam freaking darnold?
I was so convinced we were going to win I put a nickel on NYG just because of the Darnold factor. I never dreamed I would see him have a performance like that. The way he handled that 99-yard drive was like watching Matt Stafford.
In fact, I don't think he has had a game like since his rookie year...?
his best game in 5 years according to PFF. was 13/14 for 150 first half with the 2 tds (and the 40 yard PI on top). at the moment he got to 21 a couple minutes into the 2nd half his team was actually -1 in turnovers too bc of the fumble.
it was reminiscent of when joe judge was embarrassed by the pat shurmur/teddy bridgewater combo week 1 2021 at home. either that game was an enormous fluke or the beginning of the end.
The impressive win was Green Bay. DeVito made some impressive plays and the offense looked competent. Love had one of his worse games that night (INT and a fumble, his TD came in the 4th) and pressure was why.
I am also in the group who feels he and Schoen both wanted Jones back. The guy had the face of someone listening to the Dirty Dancing soundtrack during the Colts game and Wildcard game. He probably feels he can win with anyone and we know that isn't exactly true. He wanted Nabers dead set.
The impressive win was Green Bay. DeVito made some impressive plays and the offense looked competent. Love had one of his worse games that night (INT and a fumble, his TD came in the 4th) and pressure was why.
I am also in the group who feels he and Schoen both wanted Jones back. The guy had the face of someone listening to the Dirty Dancing soundtrack during the Colts game and Wildcard game. He probably feels he can win with anyone and we know that isn't exactly true. He wanted Nabers dead set.
in the 2nd half the defense generated turnovers and the offense was able to ride barkley even when the qb play was spotty.
2 tds + 100 yards in win vs GB,
2 tds + 100 yards in win vs PHI,
2 tds + 130 yards in win vs WAS,
1 td + 120 yards in first win vs WAS.
they won the NE game with defense 10-7 but he was the entire offense vs the jets and bills too. he even had 2 tds in win vs ARI. when he was healthy they were 6-8 and 3 of those losses came down to the final play of the game so they were often competitive. 0-3 without him and lost by 15+ in all 3 games.
all of that still counted/counts as a credit to daboll since he is the HC. his job is to win (or at worst compete) regardless of style. offense, defense, run, pass, special teams.
for one game at least it looks like they may have made some catastrophic strategic decisions this past offseason.
Year 2…..C
Year 3…..F (small sample)
Year 1…..no need to explain
Year 2….was unprepared to start the season and his choice to make Ezeudu the LT to replace Thomas was stupid. However, he salvaged the year by going 5-6 and lost 2 of those 6 in a gut wrenching manner all because our FG kickers got injured.
Year 3…..again, unprepared coming out of the gate. Not benching Jones in the 2nd half is concerning. Being the OC now is also concerning because it appeared to me Josh Allen’s improvising and the threat he offers to opposing defense has made Daboll look more successful, when in fact, Allen deserves most of the praise. If he stays with Jones too long, this also concerns me.
Short of installing a shock mechanism that forces Jones to throw the football, what can Daboll do?
Bench Jones?
And I'm probably forgetting a few coordinators. We've eventually reached the conclusion that each of these guys stinks and needs to be removed. That's 9 coaches. Some of them may stink. Perhaps all of them needed to be removed.
But we are getting to a big enough sample that it seems very unlikely that they all stink.
It seems likely that 3 years from now, we are going to be saying that the next GM, HC, OC, and DC also stink regardless of who they are.
And I'm probably forgetting a few coordinators. We've eventually reached the conclusion that each of these guys stinks and needs to be removed. That's 9 coaches. Some of them may stink. Perhaps all of them needed to be removed.
But we are getting to a big enough sample that it seems very unlikely that they all stink.
It seems likely that 3 years from now, we are going to be saying that the next GM, HC, OC, and DC also stink regardless of who they are.
This is entirely right. When we look at other organizations and see them struggle for a decade plus, we don't sit here and say "oh man, they just picked the wrong coaches but so unlucky". We call them a shitty organization. The Giants have been a shit organization for more than a decade. Shitty organizations are shitty because they have shitty leadership and here the ownership is garbage and they are palpably involved in personnel decisions, especially about QB the single most important position. They forced us to stick with an aging Eli (God bless him nonetheless) and they've forced us to stick with Daniel Jones.
And I'm probably forgetting a few coordinators. We've eventually reached the conclusion that each of these guys stinks and needs to be removed. That's 9 coaches. Some of them may stink. Perhaps all of them needed to be removed.
But we are getting to a big enough sample that it seems very unlikely that they all stink.
It seems likely that 3 years from now, we are going to be saying that the next GM, HC, OC, and DC also stink regardless of who they are.
8-10 coaches get cycled through every year and most of them do suck. the average lifespan of a first time head coach is probably < 2 years at this point.
shurmur got fired as an OC with denver and is now at colorado. but it's not just him, the other finalists his year were mcdaniels (fired twice), patricia (fired twice), and steve wilks (been in 5 different jobs since).
judge was an embarrassment when he returned to NE, probably he and patricia were probably belichick's single worst decision, he's now an analyst at Ole Miss. but again, not just him. Rhule got fired and is in nebraska.
mcadoo has bounced around 4 different organizations post-giants, only 1 as an OC and that ended after 1 year (carolina).
garrett has been out of coaching entirely and not for lack of wanting, he tried to get the head coaching job at duke and didnt get it.
graham/wink were competent DCs which is why they are still pretty well paid for those jobs. both he and wink chose to leave or else they'd each possibly still be here.
jury is still out on bowen (1 game) and kafka/daboll.
the "good" head coaches generally keep their jobs for a decade+. harbaugh, tomlin, reid are the active ones longer than that but shanahan, mcvay, mcdermott are heading in that direction. those are the guys whose staffs get raided in hopes of finding the next guy like them but most fail which is why that list isn't longer.
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Anyone who watched the post game analysis can see the quarterback had time to throw the ball, and there were pass catchers open.
Short of installing a shock mechanism that forces Jones to throw the football, what can Daboll do?
Bench Jones?
That's a fair criticism to me.
But what if - and I'm not endorsing this position - Daboll actually believes Jones is still shaking off the rust from the injury/layoff and it's going a game or two or three for him to find his rhythm. So, they aren't panicking from the poor performance.
Last year, a C. Was awful at start but gotta give him credit for keeping the team together and pulling together a 5-4 finish without a QB.
Last week was awful. The team mailed it in during the 3rd quarter. No urgency, no aggressiveness to try and get back in the game. The play call was predictable, and Minnesota was not fooled by anything. They were 100% outcoached.
You throw in some of the “off the field” stuff like the Wink situation, Kafka being unhappy, and assistant coaches leaving, and even keeping his buddy Bobby Johnson around for 2 years….he’s probably somewhere around a C for me. Without 2022, he’d probably be on his way out.
Haven't seen anything from Dabol to give long term hope.