Did Dabs make Allen or did Allen make Dabs?

Was incredible coaching, gm, etc, the fact we went to the playoffs I really feel was because of the combo of dabs and shoen - idk what happened since. It’s been horrible but I know dabs has shown he can elevate a team.

Allen is talent from another galaxy. Daboll helped trim some fat and Allen acknowledges that. But he was destined for greatness.

Coaches can't teach 80% of what the monster does physically.

In comment 16608922 bw in dc said:

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Allen is talent from another galaxy. Daboll helped trim some fat and Allen acknowledges that. But he was destined for greatness. Coaches can't teach 80% of what the monster does physically.

Trim some fat is a good way to put it. Allen put some of that fat back on briefly after Daboll left Buffalo but he since has lost it again.

Let's put it this way. If Daboll and Allen didn't cross paths, Daboll would not be a head coach today.

I thought the only made guys in the NFL had SuperBowl rings

The greatest potter in the world isn't changing an item to something else after it's gone through the fire

Daboll needs a raw QB, and that is not DJ

Allen

Allen is amazing but he has the same issues has Mahommes where he wonders off course in the wrong spots and needs to be reset.

Reid does it to his guy every year and Allen probably needs an OC/QB coach that can do it for him as well.

In comment 16608909 big_blue said:

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Was incredible coaching, gm, etc, the fact we went to the playoffs I really feel was because of the combo of dabs and shoen - idk what happened since. It’s been horrible but I know dabs has shown he can elevate a team.

Can't look beyond the first 7 games with close wins, to the rest of the garbage season?

You make yourself

Sure one can help guide or shape, etc

But the idea in sports these days of assigning credit for someone else to a Coach or someone for a players success is nonsense

Josh Allen is very talented and he certainly benefited from Daboll as OC . But Brian Daboll isnt “turning” anyone into Josh Allen let alone Daniel Jones.

In comment 16608909 big_blue said:

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Was incredible coaching, gm, etc, the fact we went to the playoffs I really feel was because of the combo of dabs and shoen - idk what happened since. It’s been horrible but I know dabs has shown he can elevate a team.

Teams adjusted to what Daboll schemed up in 2022 to hide Jones weaknesses. Jones hasn't been able to adjust even a little bit because he's simply not capable of it.

They were also very fortunate to win a handful of games that they won in 2022. The team was no where near as good as their record. They played a tremendous game in Minny in the playoffs which in hindsight was probably a bad thing for the long term health of the franchise.

I wonder if they would have brought Jones back on a long term deal if he sucked shit in the vikings game. Gun to my head I say yes because I think John Mara would have made them but after the Minny game there was no chance Mara wasn't bringing him back on a long term deal.

I dont love the job Schoen has done but I very much question if Mara would have allowed him to let Jones walk. I dont think Daboll or Schoen has ever looked at Jones as a franchise qb

Hard knocks and how much of a buffoon John Mara came off as in it I'm not confident he would have even considered not bringing him back.

I think it makes everyone play the role of themselves. . Joe Schoen will be playing the part of Joe Schoen, etc. But other family members did watch it. They say what it reveals is just how much a bumbling , mediocrity like John Mara is involved in the decisions that are made .

That said , regarding Allen and Daboll, I’m hearing this crap from the Bills Mafia. What I tell them is place Allen on the Giants and you get Jones . Works for KC as well . The Giants get Mahomes ; the Chiefs get Jones. Know how those mythical trades would work out ? Coaching is, at best, 15% of the winning formula. That’s all it is.

I view the ignominious start to this season as being a vindication for Kafka. Daboll was far better off not calling the plays . He’s a demonstrative , hands-on sideline presence . He does not possess the detachment that the great play-calling head coaches display. And, yes, perhaps he is a buffoon . But so were Parcells and Coughlin to a certain extent. And they have 4 Vinnies and everybody else has 0.

a while in college and pros. Allen was raw talent with a canon arm. Put the two together and Allen becomes All Pro. Dabs leaves and Allen has a regression. Was it Dabs leaving or the new OC changing things? Both.

I tend to believe Dabs refined Allen and gave him focus so that his ability came out. I also believe Daboll is a good QB coach. Problem is Jones was always a questionable talent and then he was beaten like David Carr into a shell of a QB. While in 2022 Dabs was able to nurse Jones to the playoffs with a limited offense, Jones is unable to expand and cannot run a more complex passing plan.

but he deserves a lot of credit for Allen's growth. I put some of this in the draft threads that year (I wanted him) but he was 6'3" 180 pound out of high school. No D1 school recruited him and he went JUCO to Wyoming. Never did all those QB camps nor the Elite circuit. The talent (including the mental part) was there but needed some work.

Development is one aspect. Buffalo and BD did not put in the best system (and right talent) to maximize his true potential.
They have been trying to correct that issue.

In comment 16609016 MookGiants said:

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Hard knocks and how much of a buffoon John Mara came off as in it I'm not confident he would have even considered not bringing him back.

That's too bad HK wasn't shown earlier. Maybe you could have told him in person when you shared how great of a guy he was when you ran into him at the Rangers game on draft week.

Diggs. He has some talented WRs there now too. What does that mean for DJ? We shall see this year. I m not optimistic.

In comment 16608922 bw in dc said:

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Allen is talent from another galaxy. Daboll helped trim some fat and Allen acknowledges that. But he was destined for greatness. Coaches can't teach 80% of what the monster does physically.

Yup.

when he was a QB coach or offensive coordinator? Jets, Browns, Chiefs? I discount Alabama. How about when coached tight ends in New England? Did he improve 10-year veteran Tom Brady?

know the right answer. I suspect it’s a little of both. Allen’s mechanics were an absolute mess, so there is little doubt that NFL coaching cleaned a lot of that up, but at the end of the day, it was Allen who put the work in to make himself better.

.

In comment 16609075 Ivan15 said:

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when he was a QB coach or offensive coordinator? Jets, Browns, Chiefs? I discount Alabama. How about when coached tight ends in New England? Did he improve 10-year veteran Tom Brady?

Why would you discount Alabama? Because playing a true freshman QB in the national title game and winning is 'easy'?

...

In comment 16609067 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:

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In comment 16608922 bw in dc said: Quote: Allen is talent from another galaxy. Daboll helped trim some fat and Allen acknowledges that. But he was destined for greatness. Coaches can't teach 80% of what the monster does physically. Yup.

Ah ha. But It is that last 20% that makes an athlete a star. Everyone at the NFL level is a superior athlete. Of course there are the best of the best, but in the end the coaches develop that last bit that makes a player.

Is there any doubt that Stoutland makes the Eagles OLine so good? Or a Bill Callahan?

So we can say Dabs is better than him at least.