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| Quote: |
| Jones has a $23 million injury guarantee for 2025 that becomes fully guaranteed if he gets injured and is unable to pass a physical in the offseason. In recent seasons, other NFL teams have benched quarterbacks to avoid triggering injury guarantees. This happened last season in Denver when the Broncos benched Russell Wilson, who returns to Denver on Sunday with the Steelers, before he could potentially suffer an injury and trigger a $37 million guarantee for 2024. Also last season, the Raiders benched Jimmy Garoppolo rather than risking the quarterback to injury, which could have guaranteed an additional $11.25 million that would have been due this season. In 2022, the Colts benched Matt Ryan in October, decreasing the risk that they would have of having to pay the veteran quarterback a $7.5 million roster bonus in March 2023. Later that year, the Raiders benched Derek Carr to avoid his $32.9 million salary for the 2023 season and $7.5 million of his 2024 salary becoming guaranteed if he suffered a significant injury. |
I'd much rather have a good quarterback on an above market deal, than a bad quarterback on a below market deal.
This times a billion
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In comment 16609076 5BowlsSoon said:
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In comment 16609073 robbieballs2003 said:
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This has been discussed ad nauseum on here. I have been a Jones somewhat supporter. I liked him early on. When it was time for the contract, I made it very simple. He has to make the decision for the Giants and not the other way around. I said he should have gotten paid between 25 and 30 mil per year. When they buckled for 40, I cringed. Now we are in a worse spot and I was trying to be optimistic again. Jones got another lease on being a starting QB. His back is up against the wall. Again, Jones needs to make the decision for the Giants and guess what? He did. He should not play another game in blue again. It's time to move on. Bench his ass for the year and move on.
I’m 100% sure Giant smart men do not see this as you do….so we are all spinning our wheels here ….. Jones will only be removed when he stinks for multiple games. Ie, if we lose first 4 and Jones looks bad again at home v Dallas with the crowd booing him all the way to the locker room after the game.
Robbie is clearly smarter than these Giant smart men. He got to the exact same place and did so 3 games quicker.
Well, we all know how Jones rises up against Washington, so if somehow he does that again today, all the clamor to bench him will probably subside at least for a week or two…depending on how he looks today.
Don’t forget, we don’t know what Dabs thinks about Lock, whether he even thinks Lock is an upgrade over Jones. It appears he doesn’t think Cutlets is an upgrade even though many here, including me, think he is.
Jones hasn't exactly had very good days against WFT since his rookie season. It is usually the Giants D who have driven those close victories.
Lock isn't an upgrade over Jones. He's a dog with different fleas.
Play DeVito and let's see if he develops into a continuous roster QB.
John Mara
Mara exhibiting that kind of intelligent analysis is why we have been a train wreck franchise for more than a decade.
Man I really wanted Schoen to work and be a brilliant executive. It just hasn't been the case. And despite what BBI thought of the contract, BBI'ers aren't being paid to run the franchise.
Link - ( New Window )
Just take the cap hit and move on like Denver did with Wilson.
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In comment 16609095 Eric from BBI said:
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like we're in the middle of slow-moving car wreck.
A four year car wreck....
Only four years? Ha.
I knew some knucklehead would chirp. Yeah 4 years. He looked decent his 1st year and then had a so-so 2nd year. It became obvious after that.
Could be a bargain; could be an albatross."
Could not even make it that long.
Multiple things can be true
I can only think of one reason.
John K. Mara, Esq.
And the Colts went to their backup in 2022 because Ryan separated his shoulder. Ryan had also been playing like crap and also led the league in INTs at the time.
Jimmy Garoppolo started 6 games and was pulled due to injury. He was benched when McDaniels was fired.
Matt Ryan started 12 games and they were 4-7-1
Last year Derek Carr played for the saints and played all 17 games. 2022 he played for the Raiders and started 15 games.
Context is everything. I'm not saying that the Giants shouldn't sit Jones to avoid the injury clause, but he gave some horrible examples to try and make a point.
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Declining the 5th year option to $40 million a year and a $23 million injury guarantee in a year after a 15 passing touchdown season.
I can only think of one reason.
John K. Mara, Esq.
That is a very narrow and mostly incorrect view.
He just lead them to a playoff win and had the fewest INTs in the league. He lit up Minnesota with the worst set of WRs in the entire NFL and with a questionable Oline.
Obviously Daboll thought he had something he could work with. Did Mara cast some influence, yes probably.
Were they all wrong in their assessment - yes they were. Schoen said they were committed to two years (on the new contract) with Jones after that 1st year. Bad decision, yes.
Does Mara deserve some blame? Yes. He is far too loyal to too many players. But I suspect many owners are the same.
The other 52 players and numerous coaches and staff that may lose their job in the wake of that decision? Fuck them. They aren’t Daniel Jones.
The other 52 players and numerous coaches and staff that may lose their job in the wake of that decision? Fuck them. They aren’t Daniel Jones.
He’s about to cost more people their jobs. At least Evan Engram was able to escape and flourish
Was it the 11 passing TDs and 1 rushing TD in 14 games, or the 2900 passing yards that season that keep that second year from being part of the car wreck?
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Have the repeated history of injury that Jones has. But the Giants don’t make business decisions in the interest of the team. The North Star of this decision making process for the Giants will be “What is most fair for Daniel?”
The other 52 players and numerous coaches and staff that may lose their job in the wake of that decision? Fuck them. They aren’t Daniel Jones.
He’s about to cost more people their jobs. At least Evan Engram was able to escape and flourish
Evan Engram sucked with the Giants and it wasn't Jones. The guy literally was involved in 5 or 6 Ints charged to Jones in the year he left and most were balls that bounced right off his hands - and not badly thrown balls either.
I have no idea why all of a sudden he could catch the ball in Jax. And I would have thought it was poorly placed balls, but it wasn't.
Yeah, I don't really see this as a "dilemma." It's just a factor which incents the team to do what it should do from a performance standpoint anyway.
That version has been lost forever. Whether it was coaching change, injury, or just a molasses slow football brain, Daniel Jones has become a nothing burger and it's cast a pall over this franchise.
Sure but the Giants are dumber than most of those other teams.
That version has been lost forever. Whether it was coaching change, injury, or just a molasses slow football brain, Daniel Jones has become a nothing burger and it's cast a pall over this franchise.
Or just the inevitable adjustment that had to happen because he lead the league in both fumbles and fumbles lost despite only playing in 13 games. His rookie year was equal parts tease of playmaking ability and complete irresponsibility.
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after his rookie season there was legitimate reason for some optimism; it looked like he could be a playmaker and guy who could legitimately throw for 30 TDs and rush for a handful. That version would be a middle class man's Josh Allen; pretty physically gifted and big plays with more than average TOs.
That version has been lost forever. Whether it was coaching change, injury, or just a molasses slow football brain, Daniel Jones has become a nothing burger and it's cast a pall over this franchise.
Or just the inevitable adjustment that had to happen because he lead the league in both fumbles and fumbles lost despite only playing in 13 games. His rookie year was equal parts tease of playmaking ability and complete irresponsibility.
Oh for sure--I wasn't optimistic because I think he didn't have the grade of physical tools that an Allen has or a Favre had that let them overcome mental errors because you could create more time via their legs or arm strength. But I'm being charitable or at least trying to be to those who could squint a little and see a an above average QB there post development. It never happened and we should've cut bait shortly thereafter.
The other 52 players and numerous coaches and staff that may lose their job in the wake of that decision? Fuck them. They aren’t Daniel Jones.
Jimmy garoppolo says hello. 2018 tore ACL out for season. 2020 high ankle sprain, out for the season. 2022 broken foot, out for the season. It's 2024, if it wasn't for the fact he is a backup, he would be due for another season ending injury.
That version has been lost forever. Whether it was coaching change, injury, or just a molasses slow football brain, Daniel Jones has become a nothing burger and it's cast a pall over this franchise.
There was optimism if Jones could show he could control the turnover rate without losing point production.
However, the fumbles soon became interceptions and then he got dialed down by the coaches or himself. And the processing of the field of play has become a chore while Defenses have little trouble bating him.
Now we get both turnovers and no points.
Great.
Agreed. Woodstock said that Schoen and Daboll were the driving forces responsible for giving Jones that contract. I still think they were pressured by Mara to do so, but if that assumption is wrong, then yes, they should both be fired for that contract alone. I never though I would see a Giants FO give out worse contracts than those we gave to Solder and Golladay. I was wrong.
In 2020 when we got 11 TDs and 10 INTs to go with once again leading the league in fumbles, it was time to at least bring in someone to challenge him. We could have brought in Justin Herbert without trading anything for the opportunity to do it. But the Giants don’t want competition at QB, so that wasn’t on the table. That draft was when the mistakes of this organization started to snowball into this disaster we will watch today.
The Giants strategy for Jones’ whole career has been blind hope.
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I'd much rather have a good quarterback on an above market deal, than a bad quarterback on a below market deal.
Man I really wanted Schoen to work and be a brilliant executive. It just hasn't been the case. And despite what BBI thought of the contract, BBI'ers aren't being paid to run the franchise. Link - ( New Window )
25 million allows us to sign two above average players which when combined with a good rookie QB would finally having us moving in the right direction.
Oh and get rid of Schoen and Daboll, they have not delivered. Keeping Jones around was a mistake and keeping a HC and GM around too long is equally egregious.
In 2020 when we got 11 TDs and 10 INTs to go with once again leading the league in fumbles, it was time to at least bring in someone to challenge him. We could have brought in Justin Herbert without trading anything for the opportunity to do it. But the Giants don’t want competition at QB, so that wasn’t on the table. That draft was when the mistakes of this organization started to snowball into this disaster we will watch today.
The Giants strategy for Jones’ whole career has been blind hope.
Blind hope & a scholarship. I can't get over the fact that there was NO competition this summer. None.
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Declining the 5th year option to $40 million a year and a $23 million injury guarantee in a year after a 15 passing touchdown season.
Agreed. Woodstock said that Schoen and Daboll were the driving forces responsible for giving Jones that contract. I still think they were pressured by Mara to do so, but if that assumption is wrong, then yes, they should both be fired for that contract alone. I never though I would see a Giants FO give out worse contracts than those we gave to Solder and Golladay. I was wrong.
Let's not get crazy though. Those contracts were beyond terrible (as were Golden Tate's, Sterling Shepard's, Patrick Omameh etc. etc.). At least Jone's contract has an out after this year with no additional cap hit.
But yeah, agree that it was a shit signing overall.
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In comment 16609099 ajr2456 said:
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Declining the 5th year option to $40 million a year and a $23 million injury guarantee in a year after a 15 passing touchdown season.
Agreed. Woodstock said that Schoen and Daboll were the driving forces responsible for giving Jones that contract. I still think they were pressured by Mara to do so, but if that assumption is wrong, then yes, they should both be fired for that contract alone. I never though I would see a Giants FO give out worse contracts than those we gave to Solder and Golladay. I was wrong.
Let's not get crazy though. Those contracts were beyond terrible (as were Golden Tate's, Sterling Shepard's, Patrick Omameh etc. etc.). At least Jone's contract has an out after this year with no additional cap hit.
But yeah, agree that it was a shit signing overall.
They owe him money next year regardless of if he gets hurt or not. A $25 million cap hit for a player who doesn’t play for you anymore is pretty large.
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In comment 16609239 AcidTest said:
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In comment 16609099 ajr2456 said:
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Declining the 5th year option to $40 million a year and a $23 million injury guarantee in a year after a 15 passing touchdown season.
Agreed. Woodstock said that Schoen and Daboll were the driving forces responsible for giving Jones that contract. I still think they were pressured by Mara to do so, but if that assumption is wrong, then yes, they should both be fired for that contract alone. I never though I would see a Giants FO give out worse contracts than those we gave to Solder and Golladay. I was wrong.
Let's not get crazy though. Those contracts were beyond terrible (as were Golden Tate's, Sterling Shepard's, Patrick Omameh etc. etc.). At least Jone's contract has an out after this year with no additional cap hit.
But yeah, agree that it was a shit signing overall.
They owe him money next year regardless of if he gets hurt or not. A $25 million cap hit for a player who doesn’t play for you anymore is pretty large.
According to overthecap.com his hit next year would be $22M if he’s a pre-June 1st cut, or $11M if he’s a post June 1st cut. This obviously assumes the injury guarantee is not a factor. His actual cap number is over $41M next year if he is actually on the team.
If I were Joe Schoen he’d be in street clothes the rest of this season and we’d only be eating $11M next year. If you have a rookie QB their deal won’t be huge anyway in 2025 so eating the $11M wouldn’t be that big a deal.
His cap number this year is nauseating to look at. $47.86M. The next highest cap hit is Andrew Thomas at $19.9M.
They’d be better off eating all next year though.
What they'll never get back is the 80M they spent for dog shit quarterback play in 2023 and presumably 2024.
That's the primary problem. They paid a guy 80M for two years of bad play.
To put that in context, they paid Kenny Golladay 36M for two years of about the same.
What the fans think doesn’t matter.
They owe him money next year regardless of if he gets hurt or not. A $25 million cap hit for a player who doesn’t play for you anymore is pretty large.
They don't "owe him" anything next year. Jones already has the money. That's why they call it dead cap.
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They owe him money next year regardless of if he gets hurt or not. A $25 million cap hit for a player who doesn’t play for you anymore is pretty large.
They don't "owe him" anything next year. Jones already has the money. That's why they call it dead cap.
I mean sure. They’re still paying him to not be here
Yea, but that contract is going to look amazing in 10 years when every other quarterback gets paid!
Schoen admitted that Daniel's agent is the one who fed him that logic right?
I mean sure. They’re still paying him to not be here
No, they're not. And the Broncos/Wilson situation is an illustrative comparison.
Wilson is on a minimum contract with the Steelers for 2024 because the Broncos are on the hook to pay him not to be in Denver this season.
That's not the case with Jones. Giants are paying DJ $82M for two years work that he will have in his pocket by the end of the 2024 season. And $22M of cap accounting is left ove for 2025.
The two situations are different and should not be confused.
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In comment 16609263 ajr2456 said:
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They owe him money next year regardless of if he gets hurt or not. A $25 million cap hit for a player who doesn’t play for you anymore is pretty large.
They don't "owe him" anything next year. Jones already has the money. That's why they call it dead cap.
I mean sure. They’re still paying him to not be here
No not really. IF they cut him before 2025, that $22 million cap his is from his signing bonus. It's already paid. The point is, unless the injury guarantee kicks in, they won't have to pay him his $22 million salary in 2025. It's a net zero from a cap perspective (i.e. no additional cap hit in addition to his pro rated signing bonus).
Yes it sucks that he would have a $22 million cap hit for his signing bonus, but that's a sunk cost. The point is that the Giants can cut him in 2025 without crippling the team.
What the fans think doesn’t matter.
+1.
I can’t even with some of you