I'm not sure there is any precedent for this, but it's likely Belichick will be sought after within the division after the season. Probably Dallas and maybe Philly. Dallas lost 44-19 today at home to the Saints. We'll see what happens with the Eagles.
I know a lot here want no part of Belichick because of his age. However, if you do want him - wouldn't it be best to get him in the building asap if he'd be open to it? He can get a head start on evaluation and have a head start into the offseason.
Again, I have no idea if it's even possible. But, being proactive could help secure him.
Hiring Belichick, in the midst of an unsettled legal action against the Giants where Belichick might be featured prominently, is not a good move.
If the upside is a jump start on the trade deadline, and the downside is a PR nightmare and potentially disqualifying him as GM or coach of the future, it's an easy decision.
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In comment 16612476 BH28 said:
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I don't think the way Irsay runs his franchise is even comparable to what Mara would do. Hiring BB right now as a consultant would be extremely undermining for both Schoen and Daboll and I can't ever see Mara doing that. Just look at how they let DG ride off into the sunset.
right because hiring jeff saturday who has never coached a game before at any level and bill belichick who is the winningest coach of the modern era are exactly the same thing.
you know what's extremely undermining to schoen/daboll? making excuses about injury luck when their active roster easily could have had a 2nd kicker on it but they made an elementary mistake that cost their players a win for the 2nd time in the last 10 games played.
if im mara im not worried about undermining them when they are already doing a bang up job by themselves.
When did I ever compare BB to Jeff Saturday? You are the one who is using the Colt's decision to hire Saturday as justification to hire BB now.
All I am saying is that the Colt's decision was fairly unpredented by an owner who has some personal issues and that is not the way the Giants operate.
Why would the Giants do this when they can just hire him in the off-season and side step all in the in-season drama it would cause? What tactical advantage would it give them? They would be doing a reboot in 2025 off-season anyway under BB.
um right here?
and i did not use the colts situation as an example of why the giants should hire BB. there are 1 million reasons why the giants should hire BB that have nothing to do with the colts/saturday/irsay and entirely to do with football. read any of the hundred posts advocating for BB before this colts/saturday discussion came up.
i only brought up the saturday example because it clearly demonstrates that christian was wrong about any rules preventing the giants from hiring belichick.
Hiring Belichick, in the midst of an unsettled legal action against the Giants where Belichick might be featured prominently, is not a good move.
If the upside is a jump start on the trade deadline, and the downside is a PR nightmare and potentially disqualifying him as GM or coach of the future, it's an easy decision.
this alleged PR nightmare is a boogeyman inside your own head. will there be litigation? maybe. like the wink saga and the ongoing litigation it will have 0 impact on anything related to their primary business which is football. maybe 1% of giants fans will even know that it happened.
playing football as ineptly and embarrassingly as the start of this season is a PR nightmare about 10000 orders of magnitude higher than whatever legal fallout comes from hiring a coach as a consultant. the PR "nightmare" of the ongoing flores dispute (which has lasted 2.5 years) paled in comparison the the PR nightmare of the last week from his defense kicking the shit out of our offense and getting boo'd out of the stadium in their home opener. His lawsuit didn't put Joe Schoen on the hotseat, his defense did.
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In comment 16612523 Eric on Li said:
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In comment 16612476 BH28 said:
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I don't think the way Irsay runs his franchise is even comparable to what Mara would do. Hiring BB right now as a consultant would be extremely undermining for both Schoen and Daboll and I can't ever see Mara doing that. Just look at how they let DG ride off into the sunset.
right because hiring jeff saturday who has never coached a game before at any level and bill belichick who is the winningest coach of the modern era are exactly the same thing.
you know what's extremely undermining to schoen/daboll? making excuses about injury luck when their active roster easily could have had a 2nd kicker on it but they made an elementary mistake that cost their players a win for the 2nd time in the last 10 games played.
if im mara im not worried about undermining them when they are already doing a bang up job by themselves.
When did I ever compare BB to Jeff Saturday? You are the one who is using the Colt's decision to hire Saturday as justification to hire BB now.
All I am saying is that the Colt's decision was fairly unpredented by an owner who has some personal issues and that is not the way the Giants operate.
Why would the Giants do this when they can just hire him in the off-season and side step all in the in-season drama it would cause? What tactical advantage would it give them? They would be doing a reboot in 2025 off-season anyway under BB.
um right here?
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I don't think the way Irsay runs his franchise is even comparable to what Mara would do.
and i did not use the colts situation as an example of why the giants should hire BB. there are 1 million reasons why the giants should hire BB that have nothing to do with the colts/saturday/irsay and entirely to do with football. read any of the hundred posts advocating for BB before this colts/saturday discussion came up.
i only brought up the saturday example because it clearly demonstrates that christian was wrong about any rules preventing the giants from hiring belichick.
Irsay runs his franchise worse, ie the Saturday thing was a joke.
I am not anti-BB. I am anti-BB mid-season because it's fairly unprecedented and I don't see the real benefit of it when they can just wait 8 weeks and do it 'cleaner' without the drama.
I'm very comfortable with my view that hiring a guy who is at the center of pending lawsuit regarding hiring practices, in a way that at a minimum optically skirts and complicates adherence to the league's hiring practices, isn't something Mara will do.
It just makes the potential for long-term employment too messy.
I'll bet you a PFF screen shot this is what happens if Belichick ends up a Giant:
After the conclusion of the season
A) Belichick is hired as an executive and hires/retains the GM and coach
Or
B) Belichick interviews through conventional process for the head coach and/or GM role
Irsay runs his franchise worse, ie the Saturday thing was a joke.
I am not anti-BB. I am anti-BB mid-season because it's fairly unprecedented and I don't see the real benefit of it when they can just wait 8 weeks and do it 'cleaner' without the drama.
get busy livin or get busy dying. if they are losing every week in uniquely embarrassing fashions, what's there to lose?
daboll has worked for him before so i really dont think his presences dictates a firing. they have a relationship and it's possible belichick would come in preferring to evaluate everything before making any decisions. again nobody knows what his preferred role going forward is. he may prefer a non-sideline job and sitting in box with his new gf. who knows?
the benefit to acting now, beyond decreasing the odds they shit themselves in public again like yesterday, is that it's possible he could recoup a bunch of picks at the deadline and move on from players whom he determines to be counter productive. its possible hyatt is the new toney. isn't one of everyone biggest complaints from last year that they didnt sell barkley knowing they were likely to lose him in FA? call the chiefs today and you can probably get a 3rd for singletary. you can probably get a 2nd for thibodeaux like montez sweat last year. you may be able to get a 3rd/4th for okereke like the falcons gave up for judon. someone may give you something for slayton. a few more good games from jones, and eat enough money, who knows maybe you can ship him to Pitt or Vegas or Miami? are you trusting schoen or daboll to do any of that if their job prospects are dwindling every week? we cant even trust them to be smart enough to carry a healthy kicker.
I'm very comfortable with my view that hiring a guy who is at the center of pending lawsuit regarding hiring practices, in a way that at a minimum optically skirts and complicates adherence to the league's hiring practices, isn't something Mara will do.
It just makes the potential for long-term employment too messy.
I'll bet you a PFF screen shot this is what happens if Belichick ends up a Giant:
After the conclusion of the season
A) Belichick is hired as an executive and hires/retains the GM and coach
Or
B) Belichick interviews through conventional process for the head coach and/or GM role
i recall you disagreed with me last year around joe schoens bye week press conference when you said there was no way the giants would seriously consider drafting a QB high (they did) and then again during the wink fiasco your expert legal guidance said there was no way wink had been in breach of his contract so he wouldnt have to give up any money (he was, and he did).
the only thing i trust about you is your ability to make any thread personal about me instead of staying on the topic at hand.
the only thing i trust about you is your ability to make any thread personal about me instead of staying on the topic at hand.
Unsurprisingly you've left out the material component of my view on Martindale. My view was the Giants didn't have the legal tools to fire him and achieve an outcome where they both didn't have to pay him the remainder of his salary and could control where he coached next.
As it turned out, the Giants and Martindale settled. He was not fired, and they came to a compromise where he walked away from the money and was free to work where he pleased.
That surprised me. I thought he would fight for the money.
But if you're going to call me out for being wrong, at least be right about where I guessed wrong.
christian : mute : 1/9/2024 8:22 pm : link
In comment 16356755 Eric on Li said:
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The Giants should fire him. That they have to an honor a guaranteed contract and cannot control where he goes to work next, is part of the deal they made.
not sure i agree. they now probably have cause, and the way he gave them cause / his behavior prior seem unprofessional enough that he sank his own reputation. it's not a situation that looks good for anyone but wink made his bed here, nyg dont owe him anything. he played with fire and is prob gonna get burned bad.
Two separate matters 1) the mutual contractual obligations 2) the practical effect on his reputation.
If there's a clause that contemplates insubordination in his agreement, then the Giants should fire him and they'll probably win if he sues them. Seems like he's been insubordinate.
If there's not, they should fire him anyway and live by the agreement they made.
He's got zero contractual incentive to resign, lose the money owed to him, and let the Giants dictate his next move.
Reputation wise, different matter. Which you've laid out nicely.
I think similar to me, you have a bad memory and you're bad at guessing outcomes from time-to-time.
So when you invoke things like mental boogey men, straw men, or any other kind of fictional men for that matter, you end up not making much sense.
But in the spirit of getting back to the topic, what do you think the likelihood of the Giants bringing Belichick on in any capacity while the Flores lawsuit is still pending?
I think it's 0% this year.
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with your old posts that you seem to have with mine.
I think similar to me, you have a bad memory and you're bad at guessing outcomes from time-to-time.
So when you invoke things like mental boogey men, straw men, or any other kind of fictional men for that matter, you end up not making much sense.
But in the spirit of getting back to the topic, what do you think the likelihood of the Giants bringing Belichick on in any capacity while the Flores lawsuit is still pending?
I think it's 0% this year.
ill take the over.
i called your comments boogeymen because they were, or can you link me to the rooney rules against hiring belichick as a consultant, non-gm executive like president, or interim head coach right now that didnt exist for jeff saturday?
In comment 16612426 christian said:
the argument that there would be a "PR nightmare" is even weaker and more fabulist. shitting themselves on national tv weekly, especially in the nationally televised upcoming "home game" vs dallas, is a far greater pr nightmare. like the difference between an auto company getting fined for unfair hiring practices vs their cars spontaneously combusting and killing millions of their customers.
not acting in the best interest of the team on the field - their core product - solely out of an unfounded pr fear would be worse than most of the worst allegations people have about the mara's motives over the years.
i called your comments boogeymen because they were, or can you link me to the rooney rules against hiring belichick as a consultant, non-gm executive like president, or interim head coach right now that didnt exist for jeff saturday?
In comment 16612426 christian said:
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He cannot be unilaterally brought in from the outside as GM or head coach without a competitive process that adheres to the Rooney rules.
You replied directly to my 11:54 AM post where we discussed that I understood the rules didn't prohibit interim hires and only applied to permanent positions, and that I was more concerned about the messiness and long term implications.
Your boogeyman comment came several posts after that exchange, so I'm a little doubtful that was the reason.
It seems like the nature of your disagreement with me is rooted in the the PR/optics/messiness side of the debate.
I very much feel it would be bad business and create more problems than it would solve -- hiring a potential witness and the driving factor in a lawsuit about unfair hiring practices. I believe that hiring would at best skirt the spirit of the rules, and at worst be rubbing it in the league's face.
Ask yourself this question: If John Mara went to Rich Hernandez today and said "Rich, what do you think about me bringing in Belichick to help run the team next week?"
I suspect the Hernandez's answer would be "You mean the guy who got us sued the last time we were hiring people to run the team? Let's figure out that lawsuit, and then bring in the guy the normal way if you really want him."