the actual opinions on Young on here pre-draft, I am sure someone can dig them up, but I do remember so many people were convinced Stroud would fail in the pros and he was just a product of a great team in college.
Schoen's buddy in Carolina learning from his mistake?
the actual opinions on Young on here pre-draft, I am sure someone can dig them up, but I do remember so many people were convinced Stroud would fail in the pros and he was just a product of a great team in college.
This is correct, the recent history of OSU QB’s in the NFL outside of Stroud has not been great. I think many expected the trend to continue.
He doesn’t look good at all in Carolina. But Carolina is also pretty devoid of talent.
If you bench him now, they have to be okay with trading him now.
I’d be surprised if he isn’t traded in the next couple weeks. I’d trade Drew Lock and a late pick for him. See what’s there. He can’t be worse than Jones.
RE: There will absolutely be people placing calls about Young
the actual opinions on Young on here pre-draft, I am sure someone can dig them up, but I do remember so many people were convinced Stroud would fail in the pros and he was just a product of a great team in college.
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
The "it's a franchise killer" narrative hasn't been true since the CBA changed the rookie contract values to make them slot-calculated rather than rookie QBs negotiate contracts that paid them like veterans(I think Sam Bradford was the last of the big money rookie QBs).
Now, a rookie QB that busts doesn't hurt a franchise any more or less than any other position that busts - and ALL positions do bust from time to time. Obviously, you want to get the eval right and draft your future franchise QB for the next decade and a half. But if you somehow get it wrong, it only has a lasting impact for as long as you allow it.
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
The "it's a franchise killer" narrative hasn't been true since the CBA changed the rookie contract values to make them slot-calculated rather than rookie QBs negotiate contracts that paid them like veterans(I think Sam Bradford was the last of the big money rookie QBs).
Now, a rookie QB that busts doesn't hurt a franchise any more or less than any other position that busts - and ALL positions do bust from time to time. Obviously, you want to get the eval right and draft your future franchise QB for the next decade and a half. But if you somehow get it wrong, it only has a lasting impact for as long as you allow it.
Win big or fail fast.
Yup, spot on. It was the days when rookie QB’s could sign monster deals that destroyed your cap if they didn’t pan out. It’s still awful to whiff on a high pick, but it’s not as bad as it used to be from a cap perspective.
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
I remember at the time thinking your idea to draft Herbert despite Jones still being relatively new was crazy. That approach doesn’t look so crazy anymore. My mindset at the time was stuck in the old days that GD mentioned where the cap hit was huge for top QB picks.
Everyone is guessing when it comes to drafting QBs. Texans would have taken Bryce if they were able to. But they didn't have a chance, and they look like geniuses for taking Stroud.
HC most likely wants him to settle down and watch for a bit. Confidence most likely shaken. D is horrible and lost its best player so the O needs to help with that. First year HC, but not a lot of patience with that owner so he needs to at least try to be more competitive and a Vet QB may help with that.
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
^This. The Giants not only refused to move on from Jones, they resigned him to a $160M contract!
A QB prospect 101. First you surround him with awful players, 2nd you give him multiple coaches when he has only played 19 games, 3rd you play him right away knowing all this stuff.
Thought he would be great and had him as the no doubt #1 pick in the draft. Now he doesn’t even mention him on his podcast. Funny how the “Experts” can be wrong, they just won’t let you know it.
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
Pitt did not rebuild for cheap. Neither QB is under contract for next season. Let’s see what it costs them to resign Fields or Wilson this offseason. Tip of the cap for moving on from Pickett quickly, but they have not solved their QB problem long term.
doesn't make sense to keep throwing him out there when it's such a disaster. Give him at least a few weeks to mentally reset and try again later on in the year.
If CAR is as bad as everyone expects, don't expect them to be willing to trade down from #1. They'll just take QB1 in the draft and try again. Only NYG sticks with project QBs for over half a decade.
Everyone is guessing when it comes to drafting QBs. Texans would have taken Bryce if they were able to. But they didn't have a chance, and they look like geniuses for taking Stroud.
That’s not true. Young is tiny, and not in the same mold of Murray from an athletic perspective. He had no real plus attributes.
Don't throw your rotten eggs and tomatoes all at the same time
But I think the clock is also starting to tick on Trevor Lawrence. It's year 4, and he hasn't shown marked improvement. Unless you're John Mara, how long is too long?
Terps is right. It isn’t the end of the world if you miss on a QB, even though it’s obviously not ideal. Where we fucked up is not recognizing Jones isn’t the answer and moving on. It’s almost as if there are people inside 1925 Giants Way who are arrogant enough to think they are going to prove everyone wrong and that Jones is going to blossom into an elite quarterback.
RE: Don't throw your rotten eggs and tomatoes all at the same time
But I think the clock is also starting to tick on Trevor Lawrence. It's year 4, and he hasn't shown marked improvement. Unless you're John Mara, how long is too long?
He’s going nowhere. His payday was significantly higher than Jones.
RE: RE: Don't throw your rotten eggs and tomatoes all at the same time
But I think the clock is also starting to tick on Trevor Lawrence. It's year 4, and he hasn't shown marked improvement. Unless you're John Mara, how long is too long?
He’s going nowhere. His payday was significantly higher than Jones.
Terps is right. It isn’t the end of the world if you miss on a QB, even though it’s obviously not ideal. Where we fucked up is not recognizing Jones isn’t the answer and moving on. It’s almost as if there are people inside 1925 Giants Way who are arrogant enough to think they are going to prove everyone wrong and that Jones is going to blossom into an elite quarterback.
The crazy thing with Jones is that he has been viewed as a reach since day 1. It’s not like Young who people thought was at worst the second pick in the draft. He won the MVP of the Senior Bowl and the front office lost their minds over him. The top prospects at QB are typically not competing at the Senior Bowl because they don’t want to risk getting injured.
that's a wow. i doubt they trade him in-season but id be all over trying to buy him on the cheap in the offseason.
Throw an offer their way that is similar to the Fields/Pitt trade and Im on board. Cost controlled for another 2-3 years and time to sit and learn the system.
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
Pitt did not rebuild for cheap. Neither QB is under contract for next season. Let’s see what it costs them to resign Fields or Wilson this offseason. Tip of the cap for moving on from Pickett quickly, but they have not solved their QB problem long term.
They put themselves in a position to have options. If they want to spend big money on Fields, they can. If they want to draft someone instead, they can.
They haven't solved it long term, but they solved it this year.
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
This is absolutely true in this stage of pro football you keep drafting QBs until you hit on one
You can do this with an early draft selection QB? In his second year? Who knew? I thought you had to give him multiple seasons to develop and show signs he is worthy of his position and blame everybody else around him before even thinking of benching him. Wow.
Pitt did not rebuild for cheap. Neither QB is under contract for next season. Let’s see what it costs them to resign Fields or Wilson this offseason. Tip of the cap for moving on from Pickett quickly, but they have not solved their QB problem long term.
Most teams don't have their QB problem solved long term.
Everyone in the organization wanted him, except Tepper.
Tepper wanted Young, everyone else wanted Stroud including (as rumored) the coach who got into a big argument with Tepper over it before ultimately being fired.
For what reason? He is horrendous.
Quote:
that's a wow. i doubt they trade him in-season but id be all over trying to buy him on the cheap in the offseason.
For what reason? He is horrendous.
Chep/under control for years and his carolina team makes us look like the 90s 49ers.
Yup, this is a little quick in my opinion. But the whole let’s let the guy have 3-4 years (or 6) to prove something is a mistake.
I couldn't resist :)
That said, Maybe Miami comes a calling.
It is not hard to assume in something other of a dumpster fire of an organization that he may still have some value, and his stock is very low now.
This is correct, the recent history of OSU QB’s in the NFL outside of Stroud has not been great. I think many expected the trend to continue.
He doesn’t look good at all in Carolina. But Carolina is also pretty devoid of talent.
If you bench him now, they have to be okay with trading him now.
I’d be surprised if he isn’t traded in the next couple weeks. I’d trade Drew Lock and a late pick for him. See what’s there. He can’t be worse than Jones.
It is not hard to assume in something other of a dumpster fire of an organization that he may still have some value, and his stock is very low now.
bingo!
Now, I never liked his size, but he needs to get more snaps under Canales system to make a full assessment if he's really the answer.
some liked stroud (i didnt) but there was no consensus with him above bryce. sy's grades were pretty reflective of general opinion. he comp'd bryce to russell wilson (which i thought was dead on) and stroud to derek carr.
https://www.bigblueinteractive.com/2023/04/26/new-york-giants-2023-nfl-draft-preview-quarterbacks/ - ( New Window )
The "it's a franchise killer" narrative hasn't been true since the CBA changed the rookie contract values to make them slot-calculated rather than rookie QBs negotiate contracts that paid them like veterans(I think Sam Bradford was the last of the big money rookie QBs).
Now, a rookie QB that busts doesn't hurt a franchise any more or less than any other position that busts - and ALL positions do bust from time to time. Obviously, you want to get the eval right and draft your future franchise QB for the next decade and a half. But if you somehow get it wrong, it only has a lasting impact for as long as you allow it.
Win big or fail fast.
Quote:
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
The "it's a franchise killer" narrative hasn't been true since the CBA changed the rookie contract values to make them slot-calculated rather than rookie QBs negotiate contracts that paid them like veterans(I think Sam Bradford was the last of the big money rookie QBs).
Now, a rookie QB that busts doesn't hurt a franchise any more or less than any other position that busts - and ALL positions do bust from time to time. Obviously, you want to get the eval right and draft your future franchise QB for the next decade and a half. But if you somehow get it wrong, it only has a lasting impact for as long as you allow it.
Win big or fail fast.
Yup, spot on. It was the days when rookie QB’s could sign monster deals that destroyed your cap if they didn’t pan out. It’s still awful to whiff on a high pick, but it’s not as bad as it used to be from a cap perspective.
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
Everyone in the organization wanted him, except Tepper.
Quote:
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
I remember at the time thinking your idea to draft Herbert despite Jones still being relatively new was crazy. That approach doesn’t look so crazy anymore. My mindset at the time was stuck in the old days that GD mentioned where the cap hit was huge for top QB picks.
Everyone is guessing when it comes to drafting QBs. Texans would have taken Bryce if they were able to. But they didn't have a chance, and they look like geniuses for taking Stroud.
Quote:
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
^This. The Giants not only refused to move on from Jones, they resigned him to a $160M contract!
Quote:
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
Pitt did not rebuild for cheap. Neither QB is under contract for next season. Let’s see what it costs them to resign Fields or Wilson this offseason. Tip of the cap for moving on from Pickett quickly, but they have not solved their QB problem long term.
If CAR is as bad as everyone expects, don't expect them to be willing to trade down from #1. They'll just take QB1 in the draft and try again. Only NYG sticks with project QBs for over half a decade.
Quote:
They should have taken Stroud.
Everyone is guessing when it comes to drafting QBs. Texans would have taken Bryce if they were able to. But they didn't have a chance, and they look like geniuses for taking Stroud.
That’s not true. Young is tiny, and not in the same mold of Murray from an athletic perspective. He had no real plus attributes.
He’s going nowhere. His payday was significantly higher than Jones.
Quote:
But I think the clock is also starting to tick on Trevor Lawrence. It's year 4, and he hasn't shown marked improvement. Unless you're John Mara, how long is too long?
He’s going nowhere. His payday was significantly higher than Jones.
He just got paid and 200 million is guaranteed
The crazy thing with Jones is that he has been viewed as a reach since day 1. It’s not like Young who people thought was at worst the second pick in the draft. He won the MVP of the Senior Bowl and the front office lost their minds over him. The top prospects at QB are typically not competing at the Senior Bowl because they don’t want to risk getting injured.
Throw an offer their way that is similar to the Fields/Pitt trade and Im on board. Cost controlled for another 2-3 years and time to sit and learn the system.
Quote:
In comment 16612716 GiantsMakeMeDrink said:
Quote:
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
Pitt did not rebuild for cheap. Neither QB is under contract for next season. Let’s see what it costs them to resign Fields or Wilson this offseason. Tip of the cap for moving on from Pickett quickly, but they have not solved their QB problem long term.
They put themselves in a position to have options. If they want to spend big money on Fields, they can. If they want to draft someone instead, they can.
They haven't solved it long term, but they solved it this year.
Quote:
A QB with the top pick. It’s a franchise killer when those qb’s suck. Guess we will be competing against the panthers for a qb in the draft next year
It's only a franchise killer if the franchise lets it kill them. There is nothing stopping a team from drafting another quarterback. What Arizona did with Murray/Rosen should be instructional to everyone.
I'll tell you another team that gets it: Pittsburgh. Did drafting Pickett kill them? Nope. They traded him after two seasons and rebuilt their QB room for cheap. For everyone that asks the question "What options did Schoen have?", just look at Pittsburgh.
This is absolutely true in this stage of pro football you keep drafting QBs until you hit on one
Pitt did not rebuild for cheap. Neither QB is under contract for next season. Let’s see what it costs them to resign Fields or Wilson this offseason. Tip of the cap for moving on from Pickett quickly, but they have not solved their QB problem long term.
Most teams don't have their QB problem solved long term.
Quote:
They should have taken Stroud.
Everyone in the organization wanted him, except Tepper.
Tepper wanted Young, everyone else wanted Stroud including (as rumored) the coach who got into a big argument with Tepper over it before ultimately being fired.
Apparently the coach and GM wanted to, but Tepper overruled them.