'I thought he played a really good game.'
I was curious what the thinking @ 1925 Giants Way on Jones' performance yesterday & knew I could count on these shills to parrot the company line so I listened to their podcast Beleve or whatever the hell the name of it is. This will probably be the one & only time I listen to it because these two are boring AF.
I thought Jones was fine yesterday. Functional. Adequate. OK. But 'he played really well'? He missed multiple throws deep. He zeroed in on Robinson one play where Nabers was wide open. He averaged less than 7 yards per pass. Meanwhile, Sam Darnold-who makes pennies compared to Danny Dimes-averaged 10 yards per pass.
I know a lot of you think I hate Jones personally. I don't. He seems like a good dude/teammate & hard worker. But WTF are we doing here where we have a Giants commentator praising him for his play yesterday? Is the bar THAT fucking low for this guy in year six?
Totally expecting 4XChamps to call me names, Haha.
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He left some throws on the field, which could've sustained drives. With a kicker, the Giants probably put 27 on the board, albeit against a bad defense.
Low standards here for QB.
I respect the hell out of JonC, but this is kind of silly. Yes, people are way too excited about Jones' average to maybe slighty above average QBing on Sunday. However, the sustained drives bit is overcorrecting in the other direction, no? Jones had the Giants in position to score on 6 of 8 drives, two of which were ended on a fumble by an RB who rarely fumbles and a bad drop by our #1 rookie WR.
Sure, two drives failed and one of them was three straight pass attempts. I guess I just find it hard to state "Jones failed to sustain drives" when the major drive killing mistakes were made by other players.
To be clear, Jones was fine and nothing more. And that's not good enough. We need to move on. Just seems like people are pointing to lackluster stats without any context to make it seem like he played poorly.
That was more directed towards most Giant fans.
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If you're so upset about me and others supporting Terps, we can start a fan club for you once you post something creative or controversial yet well-reasoned.
Maybe I have, and yet you arent smart enough to understand it or you dont want to go against your idol. Its a tough call.
Not creative.
It comes down to how one defines "well", which is largely subjective of course. Banks didn't start fitting him for a yellow jacket.
It would be far better for Daboll to prove he is the guy, the young talent to blossom and the quality vets to show that they are quality players. A fifth regime change in what ten years just makes the team look worse and again leaves no guarantee that that will be the answer. Bryce Young got benched yesterday and there has been a whole hell of a lot of rookie QBs struggling. If they decide Jones isn't very he guy than I would rather have him replaced and bring in the new guy with a good cast around him than start from scratch. Last year's NFC Championship game had a QB who was traded for a going against Mr. Irrelevant. It can be done
We could have been watching Maye the last 2 weeks, or Darnold, or Fields, or Penix, or Nix or anyone other than Daniel Jones.
There are 6 games until the Giants play Washington again. I'll keep my hat on until we see how those games go for Daniel Jones. If Sunday was his best stuff the Giants are in big trouble.
I'll wait more than 2 games, thanks. And how would it be a "catastrophe" exactly?
Using that standard, you have to toss in Caleb Williams, too.
It would be far better for Daboll to prove he is the guy, the young talent to blossom and the quality vets to show that they are quality players. A fifth regime change in what ten years just makes the team look worse and again leaves no guarantee that that will be the answer. Bryce Young got benched yesterday and there has been a whole hell of a lot of rookie QBs struggling. If they decide Jones isn't very he guy than I would rather have him replaced and bring in the new guy with a good cast around him than start from scratch. Last year's NFC Championship game had a QB who was traded for a going against Mr. Irrelevant. It can be done
They should go 2-15, it’s for the betterment of the franchise.
Trying to replicate San Francisco can’t be done in time to save Daboll and Schoen’s jobs
I posted this on another thread accidently - totally agree but it's not happening.
Teams are going to start taking Nabors away to some degree. He'll have to start finding secondary receivers which he doesn't do.
He immediately scrambles and looks to dump off. Or run into a sack.
He played pitch and catch basically with Nabors all day.
Wait to the pass rush gets closer - he'll panic.
Cleveland and Dallas will bring out the worse in DJ unfortunately.
There are 6 games until the Giants play Washington again. I'll keep my hat on until we see how those games go for Daniel Jones. If Sunday was his best stuff the Giants are in big trouble.
This is a really good observation - he not fitting the ball in anywhere.
Now - maybe he didn't have to necessarily versus WSH because they are so bad, but when he starts to have to drop ball into receivers I just don't see it happening because - most of all - I think he won't pull the trigger.
And when he does - he's forcing himself to do it and throwing interceptions (like opening day).
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he continues to improve, the team had a good year and leaves the season with something to truly build upon. I see the sentiment for this Gotterdammerung type of rebuild were everything is ended, the regime, players and bad spirits are purged but ther e is no guarantee that a 2-15 season is going to end it all once and for all. That could just result in an extremely aggravating debacle and a restart that may once again fail.
It would be far better for Daboll to prove he is the guy, the young talent to blossom and the quality vets to show that they are quality players. A fifth regime change in what ten years just makes the team look worse and again leaves no guarantee that that will be the answer. Bryce Young got benched yesterday and there has been a whole hell of a lot of rookie QBs struggling. If they decide Jones isn't very he guy than I would rather have him replaced and bring in the new guy with a good cast around him than start from scratch. Last year's NFC Championship game had a QB who was traded for a going against Mr. Irrelevant. It can be done
They should go 2-15, it’s for the betterment of the franchise.
Trying to replicate San Francisco can’t be done in time to save Daboll and Schoen’s jobs
2-15 sure as hell won't save Schoen and Daboll's jobs and you are just automatically assuming that with the 1st pick they'll get a guaranteed stud QB which time has proven is far from guaranteed. It would be far better for the franchise to have many other pieces in place and work on the QB from there. They could replicate the Rams or the Lions, maybe get lucky like the Eagles(?) or 9ers. In any event I'd rather see a good year than a complete band utter debacle where everything need start from scratch again
Hopefully head coach and QB starting next year.
If he has many, many more games like this one my perception changes from he sucks to he's a good backup. We need much, much better if we're ever going to sniff a championship again.
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In comment 16614245 Walker Gillette said:
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he continues to improve, the team had a good year and leaves the season with something to truly build upon. I see the sentiment for this Gotterdammerung type of rebuild were everything is ended, the regime, players and bad spirits are purged but ther e is no guarantee that a 2-15 season is going to end it all once and for all. That could just result in an extremely aggravating debacle and a restart that may once again fail.
It would be far better for Daboll to prove he is the guy, the young talent to blossom and the quality vets to show that they are quality players. A fifth regime change in what ten years just makes the team look worse and again leaves no guarantee that that will be the answer. Bryce Young got benched yesterday and there has been a whole hell of a lot of rookie QBs struggling. If they decide Jones isn't very he guy than I would rather have him replaced and bring in the new guy with a good cast around him than start from scratch. Last year's NFC Championship game had a QB who was traded for a going against Mr. Irrelevant. It can be done
They should go 2-15, it’s for the betterment of the franchise.
Trying to replicate San Francisco can’t be done in time to save Daboll and Schoen’s jobs
2-15 sure as hell won't save Schoen and Daboll's jobs and you are just automatically assuming that with the 1st pick they'll get a guaranteed stud QB which time has proven is far from guaranteed. It would be far better for the franchise to have many other pieces in place and work on the QB from there. They could replicate the Rams or the Lions, maybe get lucky like the Eagles(?) or 9ers. In any event I'd rather see a good year than a complete band utter debacle where everything need start from scratch again
By replicate the Rams you mean start by taking a qb 1OA, right?
Good. Because the status quo is fucking broken.
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In comment 16614245 Walker Gillette said:
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he continues to improve, the team had a good year and leaves the season with something to truly build upon. I see the sentiment for this Gotterdammerung type of rebuild were everything is ended, the regime, players and bad spirits are purged but ther e is no guarantee that a 2-15 season is going to end it all once and for all. That could just result in an extremely aggravating debacle and a restart that may once again fail.
It would be far better for Daboll to prove he is the guy, the young talent to blossom and the quality vets to show that they are quality players. A fifth regime change in what ten years just makes the team look worse and again leaves no guarantee that that will be the answer. Bryce Young got benched yesterday and there has been a whole hell of a lot of rookie QBs struggling. If they decide Jones isn't very he guy than I would rather have him replaced and bring in the new guy with a good cast around him than start from scratch. Last year's NFC Championship game had a QB who was traded for a going against Mr. Irrelevant. It can be done
They should go 2-15, it’s for the betterment of the franchise.
Trying to replicate San Francisco can’t be done in time to save Daboll and Schoen’s jobs
2-15 sure as hell won't save Schoen and Daboll's jobs and you are just automatically assuming that with the 1st pick they'll get a guaranteed stud QB which time has proven is far from guaranteed. It would be far better for the franchise to have many other pieces in place and work on the QB from there. They could replicate the Rams or the Lions, maybe get lucky like the Eagles(?) or 9ers. In any event I'd rather see a good year than a complete band utter debacle where everything need start from scratch again
If you don't have "the guy" at QB it's a much higher probabilistic path to sustained success to lose as many games as possible as a means of increasing draft capital and hopefully landing a QB. It isn't rocket science. If the premium player selected doesn't work out, the team should cut bait ASAP and try again. Carolina mortgaged draft capital but they could quite easily walk away from Bryce Young and strike gold in the 2025 draft. It's a game of probabilities.
The notion of building culture, a "winning mindset," etc from competing valiantly, but still failing, is pure folly as roster turnover is too significant from season to season.
In the modern NFL, teams should adopt the Ricky Bobby mantra, "if you ain't first, you're last," or at least should hope to be last. Mediocrity is not rewarded.
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In comment 16614356 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16614245 Walker Gillette said:
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he continues to improve, the team had a good year and leaves the season with something to truly build upon. I see the sentiment for this Gotterdammerung type of rebuild were everything is ended, the regime, players and bad spirits are purged but ther e is no guarantee that a 2-15 season is going to end it all once and for all. That could just result in an extremely aggravating debacle and a restart that may once again fail.
It would be far better for Daboll to prove he is the guy, the young talent to blossom and the quality vets to show that they are quality players. A fifth regime change in what ten years just makes the team look worse and again leaves no guarantee that that will be the answer. Bryce Young got benched yesterday and there has been a whole hell of a lot of rookie QBs struggling. If they decide Jones isn't very he guy than I would rather have him replaced and bring in the new guy with a good cast around him than start from scratch. Last year's NFC Championship game had a QB who was traded for a going against Mr. Irrelevant. It can be done
They should go 2-15, it’s for the betterment of the franchise.
Trying to replicate San Francisco can’t be done in time to save Daboll and Schoen’s jobs
2-15 sure as hell won't save Schoen and Daboll's jobs and you are just automatically assuming that with the 1st pick they'll get a guaranteed stud QB which time has proven is far from guaranteed. It would be far better for the franchise to have many other pieces in place and work on the QB from there. They could replicate the Rams or the Lions, maybe get lucky like the Eagles(?) or 9ers. In any event I'd rather see a good year than a complete band utter debacle where everything need start from scratch again
By replicate the Rams you mean start by taking a qb 1OA, right?
The QB they won the SB with they traded for. So no I don't mean that.
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In comment 16614356 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16614245 Walker Gillette said:
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he continues to improve, the team had a good year and leaves the season with something to truly build upon. I see the sentiment for this Gotterdammerung type of rebuild were everything is ended, the regime, players and bad spirits are purged but ther e is no guarantee that a 2-15 season is going to end it all once and for all. That could just result in an extremely aggravating debacle and a restart that may once again fail.
It would be far better for Daboll to prove he is the guy, the young talent to blossom and the quality vets to show that they are quality players. A fifth regime change in what ten years just makes the team look worse and again leaves no guarantee that that will be the answer. Bryce Young got benched yesterday and there has been a whole hell of a lot of rookie QBs struggling. If they decide Jones isn't very he guy than I would rather have him replaced and bring in the new guy with a good cast around him than start from scratch. Last year's NFC Championship game had a QB who was traded for a going against Mr. Irrelevant. It can be done
They should go 2-15, it’s for the betterment of the franchise.
Trying to replicate San Francisco can’t be done in time to save Daboll and Schoen’s jobs
2-15 sure as hell won't save Schoen and Daboll's jobs and you are just automatically assuming that with the 1st pick they'll get a guaranteed stud QB which time has proven is far from guaranteed. It would be far better for the franchise to have many other pieces in place and work on the QB from there. They could replicate the Rams or the Lions, maybe get lucky like the Eagles(?) or 9ers. In any event I'd rather see a good year than a complete band utter debacle where everything need start from scratch again
The Rams drafted Goff 1.1 and the Lions drafted Stafford 1.1. Good quarterbacks of the level needed to sustainably compete for championships are very rarely made available. At best you land a player the caliber of Mayfield and Cousins and enjoy a tease but fall short each year.
If you don't have "the guy" at QB it's a much higher probabilistic path to sustained success to lose as many games as possible as a means of increasing draft capital and hopefully landing a QB. It isn't rocket science. If the premium player selected doesn't work out, the team should cut bait ASAP and try again. Carolina mortgaged draft capital but they could quite easily walk away from Bryce Young and strike gold in the 2025 draft. It's a game of probabilities.
The notion of building culture, a "winning mindset," etc from competing valiantly, but still failing, is pure folly as roster turnover is too significant from season to season.
In the modern NFL, teams should adopt the Ricky Bobby mantra, "if you ain't first, you're last," or at least should hope to be last. Mediocrity is not rewarded.
Yet both those guys were made available.
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In comment 16614397 Walker Gillette said:
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In comment 16614356 ajr2456 said:
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In comment 16614245 Walker Gillette said:
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he continues to improve, the team had a good year and leaves the season with something to truly build upon. I see the sentiment for this Gotterdammerung type of rebuild were everything is ended, the regime, players and bad spirits are purged but ther e is no guarantee that a 2-15 season is going to end it all once and for all. That could just result in an extremely aggravating debacle and a restart that may once again fail.
It would be far better for Daboll to prove he is the guy, the young talent to blossom and the quality vets to show that they are quality players. A fifth regime change in what ten years just makes the team look worse and again leaves no guarantee that that will be the answer. Bryce Young got benched yesterday and there has been a whole hell of a lot of rookie QBs struggling. If they decide Jones isn't very he guy than I would rather have him replaced and bring in the new guy with a good cast around him than start from scratch. Last year's NFC Championship game had a QB who was traded for a going against Mr. Irrelevant. It can be done
They should go 2-15, it’s for the betterment of the franchise.
Trying to replicate San Francisco can’t be done in time to save Daboll and Schoen’s jobs
2-15 sure as hell won't save Schoen and Daboll's jobs and you are just automatically assuming that with the 1st pick they'll get a guaranteed stud QB which time has proven is far from guaranteed. It would be far better for the franchise to have many other pieces in place and work on the QB from there. They could replicate the Rams or the Lions, maybe get lucky like the Eagles(?) or 9ers. In any event I'd rather see a good year than a complete band utter debacle where everything need start from scratch again
By replicate the Rams you mean start by taking a qb 1OA, right?
The QB they won the SB with they traded for. So no I don't mean that.
The Rams started their path to the SB by drafting Goff 1.1 and building the team around him. He got them to a SB, and also got the bag after. They then decided they needed someone else and traded for Stafford who got them all the way. But to characterize LAR as "building the team first and then getting a QB" is not being truthful.
The problem is 1) paying Jones and 2) if we have even a decent season and Jones plays at even a below average level -- it means we are sticking with Jones at $40 M until he retires or gets hurt.
That's really what's driving all of this. Jones was fine against WFT. A non-descrjpt, shoulder shrug kind of game. If it was some other random journeyman QB, nobody would really care about the game. But there is legit fear that if Jones strings a few of these games together we could be looking at year 7 or even year 8 of this misery.
Because big changes always helps this organization..
We could have been watching Maye the last 2 weeks, or Darnold, or Fields, or Penix, or Nix or anyone other than Daniel Jones.
Maye was not available. Keep your wishes for what was possible
Watch the QBs eyes on a pass play.
Watch this QBs eyes stay on the same receiver from before the play starts.
They absolutely can, these are hardly unique offensive concepts, and the reads are based not only on the playcall but on what the defense shows you pre and post snap.
That's the position. Making the correct read virtually instantaneously.
You can argue that being critical of the decisions/reads Jones made is hindsight, but that's no different than watching film after the game.
His second game was better than his first game.
We wait for his third game.
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Drafting him anywhere in round 1 would have been a catastrophe.
Using that standard, you have to toss in Caleb Williams, too.
Caleb Williams wasnt in college for 10 years.
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understand the "experts" that say "he made the wrong read" or he's a "one read QB." You can say he missed an open guy or made a bad throw but nobody really knows what his reads were or all 11 players' reads. And if you pretend to...
They absolutely can, these are hardly unique offensive concepts, and the reads are based not only on the playcall but on what the defense shows you pre and post snap.
That's the position. Making the correct read virtually instantaneously.
You can argue that being critical of the decisions/reads Jones made is hindsight, but that's no different than watching film after the game.
This.
Most offensive schemes share similarities. And within those similarities is a progression sequence for particular passing/route concepts.
It's not as complicated as some fans assume for well-schooled analysts (even amateurs if they've played at a high level) to immediately recognize an offensive concept and know what the most likely progressions are.
How else do you think QB prospects are able to diagram plays on the board at the combine and correctly identify the reads/progressions? They're not doing it from a study guide that the team provided ahead of time; they're doing it from their own understanding of what each concept entails and what they know to be the keys that they're looking for.