Daniels looked solid. I didn't see much from him that really blew me away by any means. He's a rookie. He'll have good games and bad. I am shocked he is running this much already. He'll get hurt badly if it continues.
Say they had an extra kicker on the 53. The inactives have to be announced 90 minutes before game time. They thought Gano was ok in warmups and at kickoff. The kicker on the 53 would have already been inactive. What am I missing.
Totally agreed. All these complaints seem like 20/20 hindsight stuff.
Say they had an extra kicker on the 53. The inactives have to be announced 90 minutes before game time. They thought Gano was ok in warmups and at kickoff. The kicker on the 53 would have already been inactive. What am I missing.
Since it happened in the Jets game last year, and is now a “thing” with Gano, maybe know something instead of think something. Did Jordan Riley’s 2 snaps make that much of a difference as opposed to having someone who can at least kick some points?
And if Gano is nursing something, why make him kick-off? As a matter of fact, at 37 and with the current injury thing, why is he kicking off anyway? Work that into the punters repertoire and just have Gano handle points kicks….
The other thing that plays into this is Gillan is the holder. If he has to kick points kicks now you need a holder who also has to hole for a left footed kicker. The hold was the problem on the first XP try and I’m sure any back-up holder they tried never tried to hold lefty until on the sideline right before the kick…
There was a video of Belichick last week on some show talking about how he had his FG team call a 2nd consecutive icing timeout just to mess with the kickers timing, which he dreamed up in practice because he didn’t want it done to his kicker trying a game winning FG. It wasn’t a penalty at the time but you just weren’t allowed to call a 2nd consecutive TO. It worked and the other team missed the FG and that week the league made that a penalty…
So yeah, it is something with Daboll. It happened last season against the Jets and game 1 this year with the punt returner. And trying to be flippant about it saying he isn’t a Dr, he is the game day head of a team in a league where wins are hard and everyone is important so it’s time for him to stop acting cute and pull his head out of his ass.
but I take issue with these two statements re: Jones:
1. "I recorded just two poor throws (the missed deep balls were not mis-fires)."
2. "He was one of 11 quarterbacks league wide to not throw any turnover worthy passes."
Those deep balls are designed shots. If they are not open, the quarterback should do just what Jones did. Over throw and not get an intentional grounding. Those deep throws also make the safety have to play honest back there and open up the running game and underneath passing game
on the first point, there were two different deep balls to Nabers that missed by so much, that Nabers stopped running before the ball started coming down from its apex. those are comically bad deep balls. also, are we forgetting the 2-point conversion that was intercepted? or how about the horrendous throw to Nabers on the WR screen when it was 12-12?
on the 2nd point, immediately after the blown WR screen due to a horrendous throw, Jones threw into TRIPLE coverage when he "red lined" Wandale with 3 defenders around him. that should have been an INT. and then, directly after that play, another bad throw to Slayton that the CB tracked the entire way and deflected. on the subsequent TD drive, Jones threw a horrendous comeback to Nabers on the right side that might have been a pick-6 by a better corner. he then threw to Nabers again in triple coverage on the goal line.
hopefully Sy isn't falling into the same trap as our front office - latching onto examples of mediocrity and calling it hope.
Not really important but I see that Whitley got a few snaps.
As expected - he's been underwhelming at best. While I know expectations should be low for a rookie UDFA - in an effort to be clear - he's been getting owned snap in, snap out.
Over throws were double and well covered. They are still necessary throws to keep the safeties playing back so it opens up the running game and underneath passing game.
The same reason you run draws and screens against a defense that wants to be aggressive getting up field. Anything to keep their mind guessing and to slow them down a little.
As with the Jets and Darnold, the Commanders have started Daniels straight away. Do you think that's wise or that maybe it doesn't really matter? My gut feeling is that it damaged Darnold, and that it would be better for Daniels to play back-up for half a season. Wondering what you think?
And Singletary was unlucky not to make the studs list. Particularly impressed by his weaving through gaps, whereas it seemed like Saquon ran much straighter.
No exact science to it. But I would weigh college starts and experience as part of the decision making process - and I think some don't do that. They start guys with a poor supporting casts and don't think of development.
What NE is doing with Maye has been brilliant.I do think Daniels would have benefitted from at least half-year on bench but considering he played so much in college offsets that a bit.
Regarding the tackling, its evident its an issue on TV but I'm sure you get a better look on the all-22. Is this caused by technique things that can be coached, or is it more an issue with talent? Possibly a 3rd issue of just overall effort?
Still tough to answer that with any version of tape you have. Educated guess is what I can offer.
The tackling issues have a lot to do with the aggressive kill switch that these guys can't control. You want guys playing fast and physical - but the lack of ability to finish is more of a player problem than coaching.
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
That route that Nabers ran in the 2nd half for that intermediate completion towards the sideline was a thing of beauty. This guy could be a best receiver in football type player.
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
When defenses start adjusting. It's up to the other guys to win one on one match ups. A alpha receiver opens up everything.
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
When defenses start adjusting. It's up to the other guys to win one on one match ups. A alpha receiver opens up everything.
Correct, and until they do, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I appreciate the positive write-up on Daniel Jones' performance, but going a bit deeper, did you see anything that makes you think he is improving?
Or is it that he had more time and worse DBs so his first-read was more open and easier than usual?
It seems to me, he is what he is, a tough QB with a good enough arm, but his inability to process quickly and get through progressions create a very real ceiling.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
1h
According to Next Gen Stats, Giants OLB Kayvon Thibodeaux had 5 pressures on 29 pass rush snaps, a 17.2% pressure rate, his 4th highest in a game in his career against Washington.
We can point to the defense which wasn't great, but in all reality, they didn't allow a touchdown. The offense shares their blame in this loss, including the Singletary fumble and drop at the end.
The ridiculous holding call against Phillips was also a massive turning point. Giants get the ball back up 3 there, with a chance to put it away.
Regarding the tackling, its evident its an issue on TV but I'm sure you get a better look on the all-22. Is this caused by technique things that can be coached, or is it more an issue with talent? Possibly a 3rd issue of just overall effort?
Pinnock has always been terrible at tackling. He takes the worst angles and misses so many tackles… he’s very frustrating to watch. McFadden same thing.
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
That's why they drafted him, he's the #1 receiver, that's why he's there.
We can point to the defense which wasn't great, but in all reality, they didn't allow a touchdown. The offense shares their blame in this loss, including the Singletary fumble and drop at the end.
The ridiculous holding call against Phillips was also a massive turning point. Giants get the ball back up 3 there, with a chance to put it away.
Wash had the ball over 37min.
I wonder what the winning percentage is for a team
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
When defenses start adjusting. It's up to the other guys to win one on one match ups. A alpha receiver opens up everything.
Correct, and until they do, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it aint broke, dont fix it??? Its not like it was Kerry Collins in the 2000 NFC championship game here. This team scored 3 TDs last week, which I know seems like an outburst but its pretty common in the NFL. We have 24 pts on the year and we are 0-2
Its great that Nabers is looking awesome but Jones relying on him alome doesnt de facto good
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
When defenses start adjusting. It's up to the other guys to win one on one match ups. A alpha receiver opens up everything.
Correct, and until they do, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it aint broke, dont fix it??? Its not like it was Kerry Collins in the 2000 NFC championship game here. This team scored 3 TDs last week, which I know seems like an outburst but its pretty common in the NFL. We have 24 pts on the year and we are 0-2
Its great that Nabers is looking awesome but Jones relying on him alome doesnt de facto good
I think there's a point to be made that Nabers made Jones look better than he may have played which is valid, but if I'm Daboll I dial up another 15-20 targets to Nabers next week and don't ask questions until the other team stops it.
Neal sucks. This is the best our OL has looked in 20 years, he should not enter the lineup right now.
Well if not along the OL, try him at CB, where there is an obvious need. After all, he was in the 7th overall pick in the draft, they have to get him on the field!
p.s.--It cracks me up when people watching football on TV think they know better about player development than the veteran coaches working day in and day out with the athletes. It's beyond arrogance, it's infantile.
If it aint broke, dont fix it??? Its not like it was Kerry Collins in the 2000 NFC championship game here. This team scored 3 TDs last week, which I know seems like an outburst but its pretty common in the NFL. We have 24 pts on the year and we are 0-2
Its great that Nabers is looking awesome but Jones relying on him alome doesnt de facto good
Hard Truth should be Hard Head. Yes, if it ain't broke don't fix it. If opposing teams cannot not stop Nabers, keep throwing to him. When it becomes apparent they are doubling on him or slanting the defense toward him, others will be open. That is how it works. That is why Kafka is in the booth. He can see what the defense is trying to do.
You can bet Cleveland was paying attention. They will scheme to cover Nabers. Kafka needs to be ready to get Slayton/Hyatt and the TEs involved (well if Theo Johnson stops dropping passes) and prep Jones for it.
in a game since 2013. That's like 2,500 games, so 5,000 opportunities if you count both teams.
Unless Nabers is by far the best WR of all time, that is not a sustainable strategy.
d
Does Dallas target Lamb, does Min target Jefferson, did Buffalo target Digs, does KC target Kelsey etc? That's what you do when you have a number one receiver. If they take him away then you adjust. However, those mentioned above haven't been taken away yet.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
1h
According to Next Gen Stats, Giants OLB Kayvon Thibodeaux had 5 pressures on 29 pass rush snaps, a 17.2% pressure rate, his 4th highest in a game in his career against Washington.
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
1h
According to Next Gen Stats, Giants OLB Kayvon Thibodeaux had 5 pressures on 29 pass rush snaps, a 17.2% pressure rate, his 4th highest in a game in his career against Washington.
how many times has he PLAYED Washington?
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it was just a badly worded sentence?
Regardless, Thibs played hard and was effective rushing the passer
Not really important but I see that Whitley got a few snaps.
As expected - he's been underwhelming at best. While I know expectations should be low for a rookie UDFA - in an effort to be clear - he's been getting owned snap in, snap out.
People had way overblown expectations for him because of the play where he chased down the RB in preseason. Other than that he had no standout plays versus backups. His sack was most definitely a coverage sack.
Say they had an extra kicker on the 53. The inactives have to be announced 90 minutes before game time. They thought Gano was ok in warmups and at kickoff. The kicker on the 53 would have already been inactive. What am I missing.
Not really important but I see that Whitley got a few snaps.
As expected - he's been underwhelming at best. While I know expectations should be low for a rookie UDFA - in an effort to be clear - he's been getting owned snap in, snap out.
I thought he would be used as a 3rd and long pass rusher. The size isn't there for every down, giving up 30-50lbs.
Even a guy Robinson looks like he's a keeper. Theo Johnson is playing a lot which bodes well even if no catches yet. I still think you can win with Thibs as a starting edge.
Singletary fumble was a momentum killer. I don't think Washington was stopping them on that drive. Can't blame Nabers obviously but that drop was huge. We either win the game there or it goes to OT. Daboll would have ran that clock once they got past the 10 or so.
Good stuff from Jones most of the game.
But again, Washington is not a good football team.
The positive - is that there was clear improvement from week 1 to week 2 on the offense.
Totally agreed. All these complaints seem like 20/20 hindsight stuff.
I would've double bagged it :)
Since it happened in the Jets game last year, and is now a “thing” with Gano, maybe know something instead of think something. Did Jordan Riley’s 2 snaps make that much of a difference as opposed to having someone who can at least kick some points?
And if Gano is nursing something, why make him kick-off? As a matter of fact, at 37 and with the current injury thing, why is he kicking off anyway? Work that into the punters repertoire and just have Gano handle points kicks….
The other thing that plays into this is Gillan is the holder. If he has to kick points kicks now you need a holder who also has to hole for a left footed kicker. The hold was the problem on the first XP try and I’m sure any back-up holder they tried never tried to hold lefty until on the sideline right before the kick…
There was a video of Belichick last week on some show talking about how he had his FG team call a 2nd consecutive icing timeout just to mess with the kickers timing, which he dreamed up in practice because he didn’t want it done to his kicker trying a game winning FG. It wasn’t a penalty at the time but you just weren’t allowed to call a 2nd consecutive TO. It worked and the other team missed the FG and that week the league made that a penalty…
So yeah, it is something with Daboll. It happened last season against the Jets and game 1 this year with the punt returner. And trying to be flippant about it saying he isn’t a Dr, he is the game day head of a team in a league where wins are hard and everyone is important so it’s time for him to stop acting cute and pull his head out of his ass.
1. "I recorded just two poor throws (the missed deep balls were not mis-fires)."
2. "He was one of 11 quarterbacks league wide to not throw any turnover worthy passes."
Those deep balls are designed shots. If they are not open, the quarterback should do just what Jones did. Over throw and not get an intentional grounding. Those deep throws also make the safety have to play honest back there and open up the running game and underneath passing game
on the first point, there were two different deep balls to Nabers that missed by so much, that Nabers stopped running before the ball started coming down from its apex. those are comically bad deep balls. also, are we forgetting the 2-point conversion that was intercepted? or how about the horrendous throw to Nabers on the WR screen when it was 12-12?
on the 2nd point, immediately after the blown WR screen due to a horrendous throw, Jones threw into TRIPLE coverage when he "red lined" Wandale with 3 defenders around him. that should have been an INT. and then, directly after that play, another bad throw to Slayton that the CB tracked the entire way and deflected. on the subsequent TD drive, Jones threw a horrendous comeback to Nabers on the right side that might have been a pick-6 by a better corner. he then threw to Nabers again in triple coverage on the goal line.
hopefully Sy isn't falling into the same trap as our front office - latching onto examples of mediocrity and calling it hope.
Not really important but I see that Whitley got a few snaps.
As expected - he's been underwhelming at best. While I know expectations should be low for a rookie UDFA - in an effort to be clear - he's been getting owned snap in, snap out.
And Singletary was unlucky not to make the studs list. Particularly impressed by his weaving through gaps, whereas it seemed like Saquon ran much straighter.
No exact science to it. But I would weigh college starts and experience as part of the decision making process - and I think some don't do that. They start guys with a poor supporting casts and don't think of development.
What NE is doing with Maye has been brilliant.I do think Daniels would have benefitted from at least half-year on bench but considering he played so much in college offsets that a bit.
Still tough to answer that with any version of tape you have. Educated guess is what I can offer.
The tackling issues have a lot to do with the aggressive kill switch that these guys can't control. You want guys playing fast and physical - but the lack of ability to finish is more of a player problem than coaching.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
Quote:
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
When defenses start adjusting. It's up to the other guys to win one on one match ups. A alpha receiver opens up everything.
Quote:
In comment 16614163 HardTruth said:
Quote:
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
When defenses start adjusting. It's up to the other guys to win one on one match ups. A alpha receiver opens up everything.
Correct, and until they do, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I’d actually like to see him as a 6th lineman on some plays because as Sy said, Manhertz hasn’t been particularly good as a run blocker.
Or is it that he had more time and worse DBs so his first-read was more open and easier than usual?
It seems to me, he is what he is, a tough QB with a good enough arm, but his inability to process quickly and get through progressions create a very real ceiling.
@art_stapleton
·
1h
According to Next Gen Stats, Giants OLB Kayvon Thibodeaux had 5 pressures on 29 pass rush snaps, a 17.2% pressure rate, his 4th highest in a game in his career against Washington.
The ridiculous holding call against Phillips was also a massive turning point. Giants get the ball back up 3 there, with a chance to put it away.
Pinnock has always been terrible at tackling. He takes the worst angles and misses so many tackles… he’s very frustrating to watch. McFadden same thing.
Quote:
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
That's why they drafted him, he's the #1 receiver, that's why he's there.
The ridiculous holding call against Phillips was also a massive turning point. Giants get the ball back up 3 there, with a chance to put it away.
Wash had the ball over 37min.
You cannot score when you do not have the ball.
And when you only get it a few times it forces you into a position of not being able to overcome mistakes. This was the game this past sunday
Quote:
In comment 16614166 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16614163 HardTruth said:
Quote:
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
When defenses start adjusting. It's up to the other guys to win one on one match ups. A alpha receiver opens up everything.
Correct, and until they do, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it aint broke, dont fix it??? Its not like it was Kerry Collins in the 2000 NFC championship game here. This team scored 3 TDs last week, which I know seems like an outburst but its pretty common in the NFL. We have 24 pts on the year and we are 0-2
Its great that Nabers is looking awesome but Jones relying on him alome doesnt de facto good
The problem wasnt going to the same guy. They scored TDs on 3 of 6 possessions, and probably score on 5 possessions if they had a kicker.
Quote:
In comment 16614172 Giantsbigblue said:
Quote:
In comment 16614166 section125 said:
Quote:
In comment 16614163 HardTruth said:
Quote:
10 of Jones 16 completions and 127 of his 178 yards were to just 1 player- Nabers.
Why? He is the "star" player. If he is the best offensive weapon, you use him as much as possible. If the defense cannot cover the team's best weapon, why is there a need to go elsewhere?
When defenses start adjusting. It's up to the other guys to win one on one match ups. A alpha receiver opens up everything.
Correct, and until they do, if it ain't broke, don't fix it.
If it aint broke, dont fix it??? Its not like it was Kerry Collins in the 2000 NFC championship game here. This team scored 3 TDs last week, which I know seems like an outburst but its pretty common in the NFL. We have 24 pts on the year and we are 0-2
Its great that Nabers is looking awesome but Jones relying on him alome doesnt de facto good
I think there's a point to be made that Nabers made Jones look better than he may have played which is valid, but if I'm Daboll I dial up another 15-20 targets to Nabers next week and don't ask questions until the other team stops it.
Unless Nabers is by far the best WR of all time, that is not a sustainable strategy.
Unless Nabers is by far the best WR of all time, that is not a sustainable strategy.
I read it was the third highest since 2000!
p.s.--It cracks me up when people watching football on TV think they know better about player development than the veteran coaches working day in and day out with the athletes. It's beyond arrogance, it's infantile.
Unless Nabers is by far the best WR of all time, that is not a sustainable strategy.
coincidentally the Giants were the team most starved for a playmaker since forever
If it aint broke, dont fix it??? Its not like it was Kerry Collins in the 2000 NFC championship game here. This team scored 3 TDs last week, which I know seems like an outburst but its pretty common in the NFL. We have 24 pts on the year and we are 0-2
Its great that Nabers is looking awesome but Jones relying on him alome doesnt de facto good
Hard Truth should be Hard Head. Yes, if it ain't broke don't fix it. If opposing teams cannot not stop Nabers, keep throwing to him. When it becomes apparent they are doubling on him or slanting the defense toward him, others will be open. That is how it works. That is why Kafka is in the booth. He can see what the defense is trying to do.
You can bet Cleveland was paying attention. They will scheme to cover Nabers. Kafka needs to be ready to get Slayton/Hyatt and the TEs involved (well if Theo Johnson stops dropping passes) and prep Jones for it.
Unless Nabers is by far the best WR of all time, that is not a sustainable strategy.
Pre-emptively complaining that this is their strategy going forward doesn't seem like it's constructive.
Quote:
in a game since 2013. That's like 2,500 games, so 5,000 opportunities if you count both teams.
Unless Nabers is by far the best WR of all time, that is not a sustainable strategy.
Pre-emptively complaining that this is their strategy going forward doesn't seem like it's constructive.
Make other teams take Nabers away if they can, be ready with Plan B.
Unless Nabers is by far the best WR of all time, that is not a sustainable strategy.
d
Does Dallas target Lamb, does Min target Jefferson, did Buffalo target Digs, does KC target Kelsey etc? That's what you do when you have a number one receiver. If they take him away then you adjust. However, those mentioned above haven't been taken away yet.
@art_stapleton
·
1h
According to Next Gen Stats, Giants OLB Kayvon Thibodeaux had 5 pressures on 29 pass rush snaps, a 17.2% pressure rate, his 4th highest in a game in his career against Washington.
how many times has he PLAYED Washington?
How could it cloud the decision if that's the reason he's here. The whole point of the draft was to give DJ someone to throw to.
Quote:
Art Stapleton
@art_stapleton
·
1h
According to Next Gen Stats, Giants OLB Kayvon Thibodeaux had 5 pressures on 29 pass rush snaps, a 17.2% pressure rate, his 4th highest in a game in his career against Washington.
how many times has he PLAYED Washington?
I was thinking the same thing. Maybe it was just a badly worded sentence?
Regardless, Thibs played hard and was effective rushing the passer
Does anyone else get this?
Looking forward to Jones facing off against Jim Schwartz and Cleveland which is a top 5 defense.
Quote:
Sy - What do you think of Chatman so far?
Not really important but I see that Whitley got a few snaps.
As expected - he's been underwhelming at best. While I know expectations should be low for a rookie UDFA - in an effort to be clear - he's been getting owned snap in, snap out.
People had way overblown expectations for him because of the play where he chased down the RB in preseason. Other than that he had no standout plays versus backups. His sack was most definitely a coverage sack.
He was on the injury report Saturday.
Quote:
Sy - What do you think of Chatman so far?
Not really important but I see that Whitley got a few snaps.
As expected - he's been underwhelming at best. While I know expectations should be low for a rookie UDFA - in an effort to be clear - he's been getting owned snap in, snap out.
I thought he would be used as a 3rd and long pass rusher. The size isn't there for every down, giving up 30-50lbs.
Does anyone else get this?
Just a guess, but maybe trying a different browser might work.
Banks
Nubin
Nabers
Phillips
Even a guy Robinson looks like he's a keeper. Theo Johnson is playing a lot which bodes well even if no catches yet. I still think you can win with Thibs as a starting edge.
It bodes well for the future at least.