for display only
Big Blue Interactive The Corner Forum  
Back to the Corner

Archived Thread

Daboll Comment

PhilD : 9/19/2024 8:39 am
"BRIAN DABOLL: Yeah, absolutely. Four-point plays are critical. Three-point game." Every time you give up a field goal, it's a four point positive play. You let the other team run the field and get a field goal. It is a positive 4 points for your team. Winning logic
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
RE: That's a winning philosophy for teams that can actually score TD's  
Mike from Ohio : 9/19/2024 9:12 am : link
In comment 16615767 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Not for our pathetic offense.

At this point though, I wouldn't expect Daboll to understand this. I have no idea what happened to this guy or why someone casts a spell on all of our head coaches after positive first seasons.

Maybe it's the ozempic talking.


Coaches that are secure in their job criticize their teams and talk about how they need to get better. Coaches on the hot seat defend their team and explain why bad luck cost them the game.

Daboll knows he is on the hot seat because the on-field product is a mess.
RE: RE: Obviously, there is a lot of heat on Daboll  
Section331 : 9/19/2024 9:13 am : link
In comment 16615768 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 16615766 Section331 said:


Quote:


and understandably so, but I think we risk over parsing his words. There is nothing wrong with what he said. Clearly, he doesn’t mean it’s OK to give up a FG on every possession, but in general, if you keep your opponent out of the EZ, you’re going to win an overwhelming % of the time.



The defensive performance he is praising will win you next to zero games in the NFL. Washington stopped themselves in the red zone, while limiting the amount of time our offense could even touch the ball.

I will make a bold prediction - if the Browns are able to run the ball at will on the Giants like Washington did, and win the TOP battle by 15 minutes the way Washington did, the Giants will lose.

But sure, find the positives in losing by a slew of shallow cuts instead of a few deep stab wounds.


That DC shot themselves in the foot isn’t the point, keeping teams out of the EZ is. And I stand by what I said, defenses that keep opponents out of the EZ are going to win an overwhelming majority of those games.

Look sat it this way, DC was the more dominant offensive team on Sunday by TOP, but if we had a kicker, we almost certainly win. THAT is my point.
 
christian : 9/19/2024 9:16 am : link
If the context of the quote is around red zone defense, then he is correct. 3 > 7.

But you obviously can't operate in a world where everyone possession becomes a red zone situation.
RE: ...  
Costy16 : 9/19/2024 9:18 am : link
In comment 16615751 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
WFT would have scored multiple TDs if not for their own fuck ups in the red zone.

I don't know man. The defense was awful in Landover. I guess all we can hope is that this is a new system & the guys will eventually start getting it/playing better, much like the '07 Giants struggled mightily with Spags @ first. I'm not comparing the '07 team to this squad, but you get my point.


Shane Bowen is not Spags
 
christian : 9/19/2024 9:22 am : link
I think Bowen is a goof, but Spags wasn't Spags in 2007.

He was a former position coach with a couple of championship games under his belt.
...  
ryanmkeane : 9/19/2024 9:27 am : link
The Singletary fumble and Nabers drop likely stopped at least 1 TD from happening. You score 4 TDs in a game and you win 90% of the time I would think.
RE: ...  
christian : 9/19/2024 9:31 am : link
In comment 16615787 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
The Singletary fumble and Nabers drop likely stopped at least 1 TD from happening. You score 4 TDs in a game and you win 90% of the time I would think.

I think if you score 3 TDs and the opponent scores 0, you probably win 99% of the time.

It was a strange game where both teams were scraping the barrel in different respects.
RE: RE: ...  
sems : 9/19/2024 9:35 am : link
In comment 16615793 christian said:
Quote:
In comment 16615787 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


The Singletary fumble and Nabers drop likely stopped at least 1 TD from happening. You score 4 TDs in a game and you win 90% of the time I would think.


I think if you score 3 TDs and the opponent scores 0, you probably win 99% of the time.

It was a strange game where both teams were scraping the barrel in different respects.


It's the first time that's happened out of over 17k games, so more like 99.99%
RE: That's a winning philosophy for teams that can actually score TD's  
FStubbs : 9/19/2024 9:38 am : link
In comment 16615767 Chris684 said:
Quote:
Not for our pathetic offense.

At this point though, I wouldn't expect Daboll to understand this. I have no idea what happened to this guy or why someone casts a spell on all of our head coaches after positive first seasons.

Maybe it's the ozempic talking.


The positive first season was a mirage. It was 7 games. We've sucked ever since.
Daboll isn't making excuses for himself by this comment  
GeofromNJ : 9/19/2024 9:42 am : link
He's attempting to support his new defensive coordinator. And by supporting him, he's not saying that the defense is a finished product, only that it's not a total disaster.
Good Lord  
UberAlias : 9/19/2024 9:44 am : link
He's talking about holding a team to 3 instead of 7. People get worked up about every thing. He's not saying giving up points is ever good FFS.
If someone would have told me on September 7, 2024  
arniefez : 9/19/2024 9:45 am : link
that I would want the Giants to move on to a new head coach after the first two weeks of the 2024 season I would have bet you any amount of money you were wrong. I would have lost. I don't need to see anymore. He's not qualified to be a head coach. This is his 3rd year and he making the same mistakes over and over. The job is too big for him.
In the CFL or Arena League, fine.  
Blueworm : 9/19/2024 9:49 am : link
Not in the NFL.

You need to force punts.
Really great job by the red zone defense causing all of those  
Metnut : 9/19/2024 9:50 am : link
false starts and illegal formation penalties by Washington.
RE: RE: That's a winning philosophy for teams that can actually score TD's  
Blueworm : 9/19/2024 9:50 am : link
In comment 16615799 FStubbs said:
Quote:
In comment 16615767 Chris684 said:


Quote:


Not for our pathetic offense.

At this point though, I wouldn't expect Daboll to understand this. I have no idea what happened to this guy or why someone casts a spell on all of our head coaches after positive first seasons.

Maybe it's the ozempic talking.



The positive first season was a mirage. It was 7 games. We've sucked ever since.


Since they Houston game where they wore out Saquon.
He is actually correct  
section125 : 9/19/2024 9:55 am : link
in that if you prevent a TD it is a positive. I am sure he is not envisioning every drive going inside the 10 yard line, but merely if they do get there and only give up a FG, it is a less negative drive.

If people look for negative comments, they can find them by seeing what they want to see. That is the point we are at with BBI.
He's 100% correct  
HBart : 9/19/2024 9:57 am : link
Holding teams to RZ FGs -- 4 point plays as he calls them -- is undisputedly critical. In fact that game demonstrated it; after not forcing a single punt or getting a single turnover, the Giants could (should) have iced the game on their last drive.

It's also critical -- more so -- to force punts and/or turnovers, on downs or otherwise.

Both statements can be, and are true. Focusing on the positive, Daboll didn't vocalize the second.

And the issue with that is?
RE: ...  
djm : 9/19/2024 10:01 am : link
In comment 16615754 ryanmkeane said:
Quote:
I actually somewhat agree with that, ONLY if your offense can score a good amount of points. We can't.


More important you can't let the opposing offense stay on the field for 35+ minutes every week.

Wash held a TOP edge of 37:32 to 22:28. Giants had 6 possessions. I still think they need to do better than 18 pts but 6 possessions won't cut it. Giants won a super bowl that way against arguably a top 5 offense all time.

Daboll doesn't know WTF he's talking about unless it's just lip service. You can't lose the TOP battle like that. You just can't. You won't win 4 games that way and I don't care how good the rest of the team plays or if you "only allow 7 FGs. Get the defense off the fucking field.
Daboll didn't make the positive comment  
shyster : 9/19/2024 10:21 am : link
Notice the words that are inside the OP's quotes and the words that are outside. The words outside, including the "positive" as adjective, are the OP's, not Daboll's

This was Daboll's actual comment:

Quote:
Yeah, absolutely. Four-point plays are critical. Three-point game. Playing well in the red zone, you've got to do a good job of keeping them out of the red zone more and continue to evolve offensively and score when we're down in the red zone
RE: Daboll didn't make the positive comment  
HBart : 9/19/2024 10:26 am : link
In comment 16615835 shyster said:
Quote:
Notice the words that are inside the OP's quotes and the words that are outside. The words outside, including the "positive" as adjective, are the OP's, not Daboll's

This was Daboll's actual comment:



Quote:


Yeah, absolutely. Four-point plays are critical. Three-point game. Playing well in the red zone, you've got to do a good job of keeping them out of the red zone more and continue to evolve offensively and score when we're down in the red zone


Ya, I that's what I said. He focused on the positive; didn't verbalize the negative.
RE: RE: ...  
HBart : 9/19/2024 10:29 am : link
In comment 16615822 djm said:
Quote:
In comment 16615754 ryanmkeane said:


Quote:


I actually somewhat agree with that, ONLY if your offense can score a good amount of points. We can't.



More important you can't let the opposing offense stay on the field for 35+ minutes every week.

Wash held a TOP edge of 37:32 to 22:28. Giants had 6 possessions. I still think they need to do better than 18 pts but 6 possessions won't cut it. Giants won a super bowl that way against arguably a top 5 offense all time.

Daboll doesn't know WTF he's talking about unless it's just lip service. You can't lose the TOP battle like that. You just can't. You won't win 4 games that way and I don't care how good the rest of the team plays or if you "only allow 7 FGs. Get the defense off the fucking field.

There's another point. As the game progressed, I debated in my head what I'd do offensively were I Daboll. The play calling had to lean toward extended drives because we needed to keep the D off the field.
RE: Good Lord  
mfsd : 9/19/2024 10:31 am : link
In comment 16615804 UberAlias said:
Quote:
He's talking about holding a team to 3 instead of 7. People get worked up about every thing. He's not saying giving up points is ever good FFS.


Yup - fans are so angry at the state of affairs that they’d criticize the manner in which Daboll wipes his ass at this point, but what he’s saying has become the standard across NFL defenses.

As others have said, what matters is our offense scoring TDs.

And being able to kick extra points to give us said 4 point advantage…
One glaring problem with this logic is if you hold them to FGs 7 times  
FranknWeezer : 9/19/2024 10:38 am : link
and they score 21 to your 18, you lose the damn game.
It’s the truth  
Dave in PA : 9/19/2024 10:47 am : link
We just happen to have one of the most piss poor offenses in the league so from our perspective any drive that ends in a FG is typically viewed as a win. Elsewhere, good teams reluctantly settle for FG’s and make sure to score TD’s with some regularity in the red zone.
There's nothing wrong with Daboll's comment  
Dave on the UWS : 9/19/2024 11:23 am : link
He's NOT advocating letting a team score a field goal on EVERY possession. That's nonsense.

There's a lot to have issues with. But this comment is not one of them.
RE: Good Lord  
Mike from Ohio : 9/19/2024 11:26 am : link
In comment 16615804 UberAlias said:
Quote:
He's talking about holding a team to 3 instead of 7. People get worked up about every thing. He's not saying giving up points is ever good FFS.


No, it is being read by many here completely out of context. Very obviously yielding 3 points is better than 7. I hope none of you are looking for Daboll to clarify that, or that was what he was hoping to explain to people who didn't understand.

What he is doing is trying to find a way to praise a defense that got its ass handed to it by a bad offense on Sunday. His defense could not get off the field all day, limiting his offense's ability to respond. The scored on every single possession. The fact that they were all field goals belies the fact that they scored every single time they had the ball.

The fact that context mattering has to be explained to people on this site is baffling.
Huh.  
D HOS : 9/19/2024 11:44 am : link
Where exactly do those four points show up on the scoreboard? Is that a column I have missed noticing all these years?
RE: RE: Good Lord  
HBart : 9/19/2024 11:45 am : link
In comment 16615891 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 16615804 UberAlias said:

<snip>

The fact that context mattering has to be explained to people on this site is baffling.

Is it though? Sadly......
Yep, 3 is better than 7. What did he say about 0 punts  
CT Charlie : 9/19/2024 12:10 pm : link
?
Mr Mara  
Sec 103 : 9/19/2024 12:32 pm : link
Please get this 3 ring circus out of here for the fans sake.
Thank you
RE: …  
Red Right Hand : 9/19/2024 12:43 pm : link
In comment 16615777 christian said:
Quote:
If the context of the quote is around red zone defense, then he is correct. 3 > 7.

But you obviously can't operate in a world where everyone possession becomes a red zone situation.
Right, so why the ffuck does it even need to be said un less one takes it as a given the listener is a whining bitch. Children, absolute children. Whiny little children.
So, if NYG has the ball on offense...  
bw in dc : 9/19/2024 12:59 pm : link
and only score a FG on a drive deep into the opposition's zone, is that a negative four?
If other teams score  
mfjmfj : 9/19/2024 1:06 pm : link
18 points a week against us, we should win almost every game.
We won't but we should.
RE: So, if NYG has the ball on offense...  
Mike from Ohio : 9/19/2024 1:20 pm : link
In comment 16615972 bw in dc said:
Quote:
and only score a FG on a drive deep into the opposition's zone, is that a negative four?


No, because 3 is more than zero, so that isn't a negative four play, it is a plus 3 play.

You assume the other team scores a TD on every drive, and anything other than that is a win. Conversely, you assume the Giants score zero points every drive, and anything above that is a win.

It's called the Happy Sunshine Unicorn approach to coaching. Everything that isn't worst case scenario is considered a win.
Did anybody actually read Dabolls quote?  
Jerry in_DC : 9/19/2024 1:24 pm : link
The OP did a very poor or very deceptive job of formatting.
If you read the entire answer,  
Section331 : 9/19/2024 1:31 pm : link
Daboll is clearly referring to red zone possessions that end in FG's, as I said, nothing even remotely controversial. A FG in the RZ is a win for the defense, and Bowen was hired partly for how well his Titans defenses did in the RZ.
RE: ...  
Capt. Don : 9/19/2024 1:34 pm : link
In comment 16615751 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
WFT would have scored multiple TDs if not for their own fuck ups in the red zone.


I understand what you are getting at but that is sort of the point.

The more plays you force the offense to run, the more likely it is they will shoot themselves in the foot with a negative play. We also let them off the hook on multiple 3rd and longs prior to getting into the red zone.
RE: RE: Obviously, there is a lot of heat on Daboll  
kickoff : 9/19/2024 1:44 pm : link
In comment 16615768 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 16615766 Section331 said:


Quote:


and understandably so, but I think we risk over parsing his words. There is nothing wrong with what he said. Clearly, he doesn’t mean it’s OK to give up a FG on every possession, but in general, if you keep your opponent out of the EZ, you’re going to win an overwhelming % of the time.



The defensive performance he is praising will win you next to zero games in the NFL. Washington stopped themselves in the red zone, while limiting the amount of time our offense could even touch the ball.

I will make a bold prediction - if the Browns are able to run the ball at will on the Giants like Washington did, and win the TOP battle by 15 minutes the way Washington did, the Giants will lose.

But sure, find the positives in losing by a slew of shallow cuts instead of a few deep stab wounds.

"Praising the defense" Monday there were a # of posters saying he threw the D under the bus.
Let's talk about giving up only 3 instead of 7  
kelly : 9/19/2024 2:31 pm : link
That way we dont have to talk about our run defense and giving up 37 minutes Time of possession.

We are never going to have a good defense playing with 2 dt, not going to happen.
Sure giving up a FG is obviously better than a TD  
Matt M. : 9/19/2024 2:41 pm : link
But, this mindset is a losing mentality. Giving up 7 FGs on 7 drives is not a good thing, especially when your fucking team only scores 3 TDs and has no PK. How about shoot for a stop? Or stop committing fucking penalties on 3rd down to eliminate a would be stop?
RE: RE: So, if NYG has the ball on offense...  
bw in dc : 9/19/2024 2:51 pm : link
In comment 16616000 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 16615972 bw in dc said:


Quote:


and only score a FG on a drive deep into the opposition's zone, is that a negative four?


It's called the Happy Sunshine Unicorn approach to coaching. Everything that isn't worst case scenario is considered a win.


I remember the Happy Sunshine Unicorn theory from one of my MBA classes. Thanks for that reminder.

RE: RE: RE: So, if NYG has the ball on offense...  
Matt M. : 9/19/2024 2:53 pm : link
In comment 16616059 bw in dc said:
Quote:
In comment 16616000 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


In comment 16615972 bw in dc said:


Quote:


and only score a FG on a drive deep into the opposition's zone, is that a negative four?


It's called the Happy Sunshine Unicorn approach to coaching. Everything that isn't worst case scenario is considered a win.



I remember the Happy Sunshine Unicorn theory from one of my MBA classes. Thanks for that reminder.
Never heard that term, but love it. This is a good question for Daboll. Is a Giants FG then a negative 4 point play? There is a time and place for a FG. But, ultimately, the goal is to score as many points as possible and prevent as many points as possible. I'm tired of looking for moral victories every week. I want to look at just plain victories.
the NFL is a league of adjustments  
The Jake : 9/19/2024 3:10 pm : link
when Daboll was new, he was new, and thus, the league hadn't had a real chance to adjust to him as a head coach yet.

once the league adjusted to Daboll though... it has been an absolute train wreck ever since. Daboll hasn't adjusted himself to the adjustments at all. he's banging his head against a brick wall and hoping something will change.

at this point, assume the league knows all of his tells and he is not aware of any of it. and unless he raises his awareness and re-adjusts, he's toast.

and LOL at the "maybe it's the Ozempic" talking comment. I've heard crazier theories...
RE: So every drive your defense  
Paulie Walnuts : 9/19/2024 3:46 pm : link
In comment 16615747 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
doesn't give up a TD is a positive?

Ummm...ok. I guess he is just a victim of very low standards.
Mike this is my hope as well
That D coach Daboll hired  
thrunthrublue : 9/19/2024 4:20 pm : link
If he continues giving up 100 yard drives…..not forcing one punt…..he will be gone too, as he should be, that MUST be the analytics on that bullshit.
RE: Daboll didn't make the positive comment  
christian : 9/19/2024 7:23 pm : link
In comment 16615835 shyster said:
Quote:
Notice the words that are inside the OP's quotes and the words that are outside. The words outside, including the "positive" as adjective, are the OP's, not Daboll's

This was Daboll's actual comment:

Quote:

Yeah, absolutely. Four-point plays are critical. Three-point game. Playing well in the red zone, you've got to do a good job of keeping them out of the red zone more and continue to evolve offensively and score when we're down in the red zone

Thanks for providing the full quote.

It seems pretty clear this is a silver lining situation, and Daboll understands the problem is the rate of red zone opportunities the defense gave up.
Please  
SimmsToBavaro : 9/19/2024 9:12 pm : link
Tell me this is a fake quote
BBI is a little slow tonight  
stoneman : 9/19/2024 10:50 pm : link
He is saying that if you stop the other team for 3 pts, then your drive for 7 is +4. So 7 drives for 7 fgs - against 7 drives for 7 tds. Can't wait for 7 drive and 7 tds against CLV - just stop them for fgs.
RE: He's 100% correct  
mikeypgiants giants : 9/20/2024 7:33 am : link
In comment 16615820 HBart said:
Quote:
Holding teams to RZ FGs -- 4 point plays as he calls them -- is undisputedly critical. In fact that game demonstrated it; after not forcing a single punt or getting a single turnover, the Giants could (should) have iced the game on their last drive.

It's also critical -- more so -- to force punts and/or turnovers, on downs or otherwise.

oh the four point play catchy. lets add it to the list ....Hog Mollies Big butts the duke .....come on man
Both statements can be, and are true. Focusing on the positive, Daboll didn't vocalize the second.

And the issue with that is?
The results of the new Kickoff rules have increased FG over  
Rich_Houston_1971 : 9/20/2024 9:21 am : link
last two games. Starting at 25 and 30 based on where the ball lands in landing zone has an impact of these starting drives.
Pages: 1 2 <<Prev | Show All |
Back to the Corner