Let me see, if he has the speed to steal 50 bases, maybe he can be a good defensive OF too. Is it harder to throw a 100 mph with nasty breaking pitches or be a good defensive OF?
a minute to read up on Ohtani should have nothing to say about his greatness as a ballplayer. He is uniquely outstanding among the outstanding athletes to ever play this game.
are substantially diminished as an accomplishment due to the new rules which are incredibly favorable to base stealers.
Did want to make that point but it doesn’t really detract from the fact that what Ohtani and Judge are doing this year given how offense is down around the league is incredible. Superstars.
are substantially diminished as an accomplishment due to the new rules which are incredibly favorable to base stealers.
Did want to make that point but it doesn’t really detract from the fact that what Ohtani and Judge are doing this year given how offense is down around the league is incredible. Superstars.
but steals are not up markedly more than some years in the 80's or 90's or even random others years. they did dip in the later part of the 2010's, but now they're back to where they used to be - league wide.
I know BBI is becoming a place for tragically hip idiotic opinions....
but the whole"how is he in the field" is so dumb when everyone knows he has not only played the outfield but has a 3.01 £RA as a starting pitcher. He's one of the greatest baseball players to ever play the game with no sane argument to be made against that.
are substantially diminished as an accomplishment due to the new rules which are incredibly favorable to base stealers.
Did want to make that point but it doesn’t really detract from the fact that what Ohtani and Judge are doing this year given how offense is down around the league is incredible. Superstars.
If that's the case, how many players has close to 50 SB this year or even 40 SB? Give credit where credit is due.
Judge over Ohtani. Judge is a great hitter, Ohtani is an all time great. There’s a reason he got that contract.
You should really consider the age difference as the reason a GM takes Ohtani over Judge along with the pitching aspect. He is a star pitcher when healthy in addition to a monster at the plate.
But in all honesty, Judge plays the field 5 or 6 games out of 7. That is physically draining. Ohtani sits on the bench and can visit the clubhouse to stay fresh, while Judge is on the field in the heat.
Judge over Ohtani. Judge is a great hitter, Ohtani is an all time great. There’s a reason he got that contract.
You should really consider the age difference as the reason a GM takes Ohtani over Judge along with the pitching aspect. He is a star pitcher when healthy in addition to a monster at the plate.
But in all honesty, Judge plays the field 5 or 6 games out of 7. That is physically draining. Ohtani sits on the bench and can visit the clubhouse to stay fresh, while Judge is on the field in the heat.
That is a huge difference late in the season.
So do you consider Bobby Witt, Jr the MVP then?
Judge has started at DH 41 games (so far). That is over 25% of the season, so that opportunity to stay fresh over Witt, who started just once at DH, is clearly an advantage, right?
Judge over Ohtani. Judge is a great hitter, Ohtani is an all time great. There’s a reason he got that contract.
You should really consider the age difference as the reason a GM takes Ohtani over Judge along with the pitching aspect. He is a star pitcher when healthy in addition to a monster at the plate.
But in all honesty, Judge plays the field 5 or 6 games out of 7. That is physically draining. Ohtani sits on the bench and can visit the clubhouse to stay fresh, while Judge is on the field in the heat.
That is a huge difference late in the season.
So do you consider Bobby Witt, Jr the MVP then?
Judge has started at DH 41 games (so far). That is over 25% of the season, so that opportunity to stay fresh over Witt, who started just once at DH, is clearly an advantage, right?
They are neck and neck in terms of fWAR.
In any other year, Witt is easily MVP. But Judge's season is crazily good as he is still close to the triple crown leading in HRs, RBIs and 2nd in BA.
However, if you do not see the difference between not playing 1 game in the field and actually running around the OF for 110 games, then I don't know what to say to you.
Also, IIRC, Catcher, SS and CF are considered the most important fielding positions - so yes Witt and Judge both check that box.
Bottom line is, Ohtani is a once in a century player. At his worst he is one of the top 5 hitters and top 10-15 pitchers in baseball. Two years ago he was 4th in Cy Young voting and 2nd in MVP voting. I myself am a Yankee fan, I love Judge and think this is the year he breaks out in the playoffs, but if you're asking me who the best player in baseball is, the answer is unequivocally Ohtani.
I am hoping we can see the two showdown in the World Series to at least temporarily settle the argument.
I am hoping we can see the two showdown in the World Series to at least temporarily settle the argument.
temporary at best since Ohtani isn't pitching this year. But if the Dodgers and Yankees meet up down the road and Ohtani gets to pitch to Judge, the debate could be settled head-to-head.
but the DH only issue has been a major debate in baseball, so I don't know how anyone dismisses him being a DH only as irrelevant. Specifically, there has been a major discussion about whether he should be MVP as a DH only, or it should go to Lindor, who is isn't putting up as gaudy offensive numbers, but is 3 SB short of 30/30 himself, while playing exceptional defense at a premium position. My guess is Ohtani still comes away with MVP, but it's a very legitimate baseball debate.
Regarding the Ohtani vs. Judge debate, I'd put them on near the same level as a hitter. Having an Ohtani (when healthy) is like having a Judge and a Gerrit Cole (pre struggles this year) in one player. There simply is no comparison in baseball.
What he's done is incredible. I think the only point some have been trying to make is that he is not actually "playing the field" in a literal sense. He's a DH. If he were also playing, say outfield, the accomplishment would be even more amazing.
Sure you can say he’s “just a DH” but that just feels like nitpicking. This is an all-time great athlete right here and last nights performance was one for the ages.
But to those who diminish his accomplishments because he's a DH, is there any evidence that he is incapable of playing the outfield? Did he once try but looked like the baseball version of Daniel Jones or something?
to want "your guy" to be the best. but yeah, for some reason Yankees fans want to knock Ohtani.
the guy would be pitching this year, but he had UCL surgery, after already having TJS. I think it's remarkable he's playing the field.
That said, Judge has had a ridiculous season, it's ok to say Ohtani has too.
Ohtani has not played the field. He is a pitcher that is an outstanding batter, too. But was stated, he had TJS and as a pitcher needs extra time to recover.
Anyone knocking his season is just wrong. All I am saying is, he is not getting beat up in the field and does not have the physical breakdowns the Judge, Soto and Witt have playing in the field.
He's incredible. That said, I hope the LAD fall on their face next month. Their one title since '88 has an asterisk to me because it was during that fake 2020 season.
to want "your guy" to be the best. but yeah, for some reason Yankees fans want to knock Ohtani.
the guy would be pitching this year, but he had UCL surgery, after already having TJS. I think it's remarkable he's playing the field.
That said, Judge has had a ridiculous season, it's ok to say Ohtani has too.
Ohtani has not played the field. He is a pitcher that is an outstanding batter, too. But was stated, he had TJS and as a pitcher needs extra time to recover.
Anyone knocking his season is just wrong. All I am saying is, he is not getting beat up in the field and does not have the physical breakdowns the Judge, Soto and Witt have playing in the field.
Ohtani is not on steroids, so don't think I am saying he is. The reason Bonds did so well is that the steroids he was taking helped his muscles recover quicker so he was not worn out like other players late August and September. When pitchers were losing a little off their FB late in the season, Bonds was playing like it was May. That is the way it was explained that he was able to maintain his high rate through the year while others slow down a bit.
Ohtani, by not having to play defensively (or pitch in his case) is able to keep his performance just slightly above the level of others because he is not as tired and his body hasn't broken down as much.
There is a reason Soto and Judge have slowed down a bit since mid August. Their bodies are just a bit more worn out.
pitching takes on his hitting. By the same token, during a healthy year you’d have to multiply his hitting stats by a factor of 1.3 or maybe 1.5!! Since most of you would argue that you can’t combine both stats for him.
It’d be foolish to try to discredit what he’s doing. Just be glad that Judge isn’t in another league.
By general acclaim, isn't he the greatest two-way player since Babe Ruth? And the Babe had 123 career stolen bases when pitches were slower and catchers' arms weren't nearly as strong as today.
Sure you can say he’s “just a DH” but that just feels like nitpicking. This is an all-time great athlete right here and last nights performance was one for the ages.
has started 41 games at DH (so far), that's over 25% of the season.
Soto started 4 at DH.
they are not the same.
But for some reasons for fans Ohtani is a fraud, but Judge is the man. lol. Depends what team you root for I guess.
You are trying too hard. 2nd time you mentioned Judge with 41 DH games. You are being a total dick. It absolutely makes a difference in health and effectiveness vs sitting on the bench.
I am totally impressed with his season. Perhaps in the top 20 all time offensive seasons. However, If you cannot acknowledge that sitting your ass on the bench and showing up to bat once every three innings is a total advantage over playing 110 games in the field, then you are a fraud.
Judge played more than 25% of the season at DH because you continue to harp on Ohtani being fresh. When relatively speaking to other players (like Soto and Witt) Judge is fresh. But you can't see past your "I heart Judge" blinders. My guess is if Judge wins MVP, other than Ohtani who was a dual threat pitcher and DH, Judge will have started more games at DH than any other player to win the AL MVP award.
If you look back at the thread and read it from an unbiased standpoint (which is hard to do) you will see you come across as an insecure narcissist who can't stand a player not from the team you cheer for getting praise. It's human nature, but most grown ups get over it, some don't. you seem to be one who hasn't.
you can work it on it or you can lash out and insult people.
Judge played more than 25% of the season at DH because you continue to harp on Ohtani being fresh. When relatively speaking to other players (like Soto and Witt) Judge is fresh. But you can't see past your "I heart Judge" blinders. My guess is if Judge wins MVP, other than Ohtani who was a dual threat pitcher and DH, Judge will have started more games at DH than any other player to win the AL MVP award.
If you look back at the thread and read it from an unbiased standpoint (which is hard to do) you will see you come across as an insecure narcissist who can't stand a player not from the team you cheer for getting praise. It's human nature, but most grown ups get over it, some don't. you seem to be one who hasn't.
you can work it on it or you can lash out and insult people.
In the field he rates as one of the best pitchers in baseball.
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How does he rate in the field?
In the field he rates as one of the best pitchers in baseball.
I couldn't find him on the stat sheet there. Little help?
6 for 6 3 HR's 10 RBI, 4 R's 2 SB's.
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In comment 16616218 Sky King said:
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How does he rate in the field?
In the field he rates as one of the best pitchers in baseball.
I couldn't find him on the stat sheet there. Little help?
WTF are you talking about? Google it - look at bref or fangraphs and look at his pitching stats.
it is irrelevant though, since this thread is about the 50/50 club.
League average is 80%, so a tad higher.
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In comment 16616219 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 16616218 Sky King said:
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How does he rate in the field?
In the field he rates as one of the best pitchers in baseball.
I couldn't find him on the stat sheet there. Little help?
WTF are you talking about? Google it - look at bref or fangraphs and look at his pitching stats.
it is irrelevant though, since this thread is about the 50/50 club.
\
Oh, I thought we were talking about THIS season. Pardon me. In other words, is a very good DH. Half a player. Got it.
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In comment 16616221 Sky King said:
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In comment 16616219 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 16616218 Sky King said:
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How does he rate in the field?
In the field he rates as one of the best pitchers in baseball.
I couldn't find him on the stat sheet there. Little help?
WTF are you talking about? Google it - look at bref or fangraphs and look at his pitching stats.
it is irrelevant though, since this thread is about the 50/50 club.
\
Oh, I thought we were talking about THIS season. Pardon me. In other words, is a very good DH. Half a player. Got it.
lol, let me guess, bitter Yankees fan?
6 for 6 3 HR's 10 RBI, 4 R's 2 SB's.
He was due for a good outlier. His last month has been brutal.
Will be a first time for him. I hate the Dodgers so hope not well.
50-50 is historic. And he pitches!!!
Holy fuck.
Are you being funny, dude? Because maybe somebody other than me is laughing.
Second best hitter in the sport this season.
Did want to make that point but it doesn’t really detract from the fact that what Ohtani and Judge are doing this year given how offense is down around the league is incredible. Superstars.
Did want to make that point but it doesn’t really detract from the fact that what Ohtani and Judge are doing this year given how offense is down around the league is incredible. Superstars.
but steals are not up markedly more than some years in the 80's or 90's or even random others years. they did dip in the later part of the 2010's, but now they're back to where they used to be - league wide.
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In comment 16616228 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 16616221 Sky King said:
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In comment 16616219 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 16616218 Sky King said:
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How does he rate in the field?
In the field he rates as one of the best pitchers in baseball.
I couldn't find him on the stat sheet there. Little help?
WTF are you talking about? Google it - look at bref or fangraphs and look at his pitching stats.
it is irrelevant though, since this thread is about the 50/50 club.
\
Oh, I thought we were talking about THIS season. Pardon me. In other words, is a very good DH. Half a player. Got it.
lol, let me guess, bitter Yankees fan?
Says a bitter Mets fan?
Ohtani is having a great year. Probably going to pass Judge for MLB HR title.
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In comment 16616232 Sky King said:
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In comment 16616228 pjcas18 said:
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In comment 16616221 Sky King said:
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In comment 16616219 pjcas18 said:
Quote:
In comment 16616218 Sky King said:
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How does he rate in the field?
In the field he rates as one of the best pitchers in baseball.
I couldn't find him on the stat sheet there. Little help?
WTF are you talking about? Google it - look at bref or fangraphs and look at his pitching stats.
it is irrelevant though, since this thread is about the 50/50 club.
\
Oh, I thought we were talking about THIS season. Pardon me. In other words, is a very good DH. Half a player. Got it.
lol, let me guess, bitter Yankees fan?
Says a bitter Mets fan?
Ohtani is having a great year. Probably going to pass Judge for MLB HR title.
Read this thread and tell me how I’m bitter. Weird comment.
It would be very close
Gotta take off the Yankee goggles though.
But Ohtani doing THIS in his “off year” with no pitching is simply stupid. He’s a monstrous athlete.
Did want to make that point but it doesn’t really detract from the fact that what Ohtani and Judge are doing this year given how offense is down around the league is incredible. Superstars.
If that's the case, how many players has close to 50 SB this year or even 40 SB? Give credit where credit is due.
His stats are amazing; I think it is him, Judge, and everyone else.
You should really consider the age difference as the reason a GM takes Ohtani over Judge along with the pitching aspect. He is a star pitcher when healthy in addition to a monster at the plate.
But in all honesty, Judge plays the field 5 or 6 games out of 7. That is physically draining. Ohtani sits on the bench and can visit the clubhouse to stay fresh, while Judge is on the field in the heat.
That is a huge difference late in the season.
Quote:
Judge over Ohtani. Judge is a great hitter, Ohtani is an all time great. There’s a reason he got that contract.
You should really consider the age difference as the reason a GM takes Ohtani over Judge along with the pitching aspect. He is a star pitcher when healthy in addition to a monster at the plate.
But in all honesty, Judge plays the field 5 or 6 games out of 7. That is physically draining. Ohtani sits on the bench and can visit the clubhouse to stay fresh, while Judge is on the field in the heat.
That is a huge difference late in the season.
So do you consider Bobby Witt, Jr the MVP then?
Judge has started at DH 41 games (so far). That is over 25% of the season, so that opportunity to stay fresh over Witt, who started just once at DH, is clearly an advantage, right?
They are neck and neck in terms of fWAR.
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In comment 16616419 MyNameIsMyName said:
Quote:
Judge over Ohtani. Judge is a great hitter, Ohtani is an all time great. There’s a reason he got that contract.
You should really consider the age difference as the reason a GM takes Ohtani over Judge along with the pitching aspect. He is a star pitcher when healthy in addition to a monster at the plate.
But in all honesty, Judge plays the field 5 or 6 games out of 7. That is physically draining. Ohtani sits on the bench and can visit the clubhouse to stay fresh, while Judge is on the field in the heat.
That is a huge difference late in the season.
So do you consider Bobby Witt, Jr the MVP then?
Judge has started at DH 41 games (so far). That is over 25% of the season, so that opportunity to stay fresh over Witt, who started just once at DH, is clearly an advantage, right?
They are neck and neck in terms of fWAR.
In any other year, Witt is easily MVP. But Judge's season is crazily good as he is still close to the triple crown leading in HRs, RBIs and 2nd in BA.
However, if you do not see the difference between not playing 1 game in the field and actually running around the OF for 110 games, then I don't know what to say to you.
Also, IIRC, Catcher, SS and CF are considered the most important fielding positions - so yes Witt and Judge both check that box.
I am hoping we can see the two showdown in the World Series to at least temporarily settle the argument.
the guy would be pitching this year, but he had UCL surgery, after already having TJS. I think it's remarkable he's playing the field.
That said, Judge has had a ridiculous season, it's ok to say Ohtani has too.
temporary at best since Ohtani isn't pitching this year. But if the Dodgers and Yankees meet up down the road and Ohtani gets to pitch to Judge, the debate could be settled head-to-head.
Regarding the Ohtani vs. Judge debate, I'd put them on near the same level as a hitter. Having an Ohtani (when healthy) is like having a Judge and a Gerrit Cole (pre struggles this year) in one player. There simply is no comparison in baseball.
What he's done is incredible. I think the only point some have been trying to make is that he is not actually "playing the field" in a literal sense. He's a DH. If he were also playing, say outfield, the accomplishment would be even more amazing.
Sticking Lucas Duda full-time at DH wouldn't turn him into Pete Alonso, right?
Not wanting a player to have a historic 50/50 season is a very weird reason to not want a DH. And I say that as someone who is not a big DH guy.
Sure you can say he’s “just a DH” but that just feels like nitpicking. This is an all-time great athlete right here and last nights performance was one for the ages.
Dude is a beast.
the guy would be pitching this year, but he had UCL surgery, after already having TJS. I think it's remarkable he's playing the field.
That said, Judge has had a ridiculous season, it's ok to say Ohtani has too.
Ohtani has not played the field. He is a pitcher that is an outstanding batter, too. But was stated, he had TJS and as a pitcher needs extra time to recover.
Anyone knocking his season is just wrong. All I am saying is, he is not getting beat up in the field and does not have the physical breakdowns the Judge, Soto and Witt have playing in the field.
Quote:
to want "your guy" to be the best. but yeah, for some reason Yankees fans want to knock Ohtani.
the guy would be pitching this year, but he had UCL surgery, after already having TJS. I think it's remarkable he's playing the field.
That said, Judge has had a ridiculous season, it's ok to say Ohtani has too.
Ohtani has not played the field. He is a pitcher that is an outstanding batter, too. But was stated, he had TJS and as a pitcher needs extra time to recover.
Anyone knocking his season is just wrong. All I am saying is, he is not getting beat up in the field and does not have the physical breakdowns the Judge, Soto and Witt have playing in the field.
Ohtani is not on steroids, so don't think I am saying he is. The reason Bonds did so well is that the steroids he was taking helped his muscles recover quicker so he was not worn out like other players late August and September. When pitchers were losing a little off their FB late in the season, Bonds was playing like it was May. That is the way it was explained that he was able to maintain his high rate through the year while others slow down a bit.
Ohtani, by not having to play defensively (or pitch in his case) is able to keep his performance just slightly above the level of others because he is not as tired and his body hasn't broken down as much.
There is a reason Soto and Judge have slowed down a bit since mid August. Their bodies are just a bit more worn out.
But absolutely Ohtani is having a magical year.
Soto started 4 at DH.
they are not the same.
But for some reasons for fans Ohtani is a fraud, but Judge is the man. lol. Depends what team you root for I guess.
It’d be foolish to try to discredit what he’s doing. Just be glad that Judge isn’t in another league.
Sure you can say he’s “just a DH” but that just feels like nitpicking. This is an all-time great athlete right here and last nights performance was one for the ages.
Soto started 4 at DH.
they are not the same.
But for some reasons for fans Ohtani is a fraud, but Judge is the man. lol. Depends what team you root for I guess.
You are trying too hard. 2nd time you mentioned Judge with 41 DH games. You are being a total dick. It absolutely makes a difference in health and effectiveness vs sitting on the bench.
I am totally impressed with his season. Perhaps in the top 20 all time offensive seasons. However, If you cannot acknowledge that sitting your ass on the bench and showing up to bat once every three innings is a total advantage over playing 110 games in the field, then you are a fraud.
If you look back at the thread and read it from an unbiased standpoint (which is hard to do) you will see you come across as an insecure narcissist who can't stand a player not from the team you cheer for getting praise. It's human nature, but most grown ups get over it, some don't. you seem to be one who hasn't.
you can work it on it or you can lash out and insult people.
If you look back at the thread and read it from an unbiased standpoint (which is hard to do) you will see you come across as an insecure narcissist who can't stand a player not from the team you cheer for getting praise. It's human nature, but most grown ups get over it, some don't. you seem to be one who hasn't.
you can work it on it or you can lash out and insult people.
Oh, ok....