The combination of the team repeatedly displaying the same weaknesses - predictable offense, soft defense, indifferent special teams - and Daboll's demeanor (basically a stonewall of cool contempt) is a horrible mixture.
Think about it. You're on a team making the same damn mistakes season after season, and when pressed about it your coach, your leader's response to criticism is to either stonewall or act like it's not such a big deal (the coach equivalent of "U mad bro?").
No public accountability - unless you're an offensive lineman or a backup receiver, I guess.
The aegument isnt if Players annoyed, its do you actually believe a player sought out Ranaan to spew this?
Do I think it is plausible a beat reporter talked to players off the record? Of course.
if you think Schoen is scapegoating Daboll and Daboll didn't sign off on Jones you're an idiot. Sorry, that's harsh but pay attention to how teams operate. The HC has a shit load of influence and power. They literally build the roster along with the GM who is doing GM things.
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
I think they both decided after Jones good year the smart thing was to sign him to a deal and keep him and if he plays well grest have him for 4 years or at worst case have him for 2 and get rid of him..
When they saw the writing on the wall they tried to get a young QB, it didnt work, they bit the bullett and stuck with Jones for anothe ryear while fixing the Oline and weapons...
was the beginning of the end for both Schoen and Daboll. The majority of the fanbase was ready to move on after '21 and have lost all patience. The thought that they would stick with him for 3 more seasons is insanity.
Daboll absolutely had input, if not the final decision, on Jones. That is part of the reason he should be gone barring anything short of this team turning this season around.
Daboll was brought in because of his expertise with QBs. His support of Jones calls into question just how good he is at it. Maybe Josh Allen would have developed into a stud QB with or without Brian Daboll? I think it is silly to assume Allen is a bust absent Daboll.
Players are not seeking beat reporters out to complain
There is a ton of crap that goes on behind the scenes in those relationships. Sometimes the players will give them off the record stuff to ingratiate themselves to the media the same way reporters will fluff up certain players or defend them in an attempt to ingratiate themselves.
Why do you think there were certain beats who fell all over themselves to stick up for players like OBJ or Barkley? There is a two-way relationship there, not a one way hero worship.
This according to Gano is an incorrect assumption -he was launching from 60yds pre game and felt fine -so why would daboll done anything differently?? Gano hurt has hamstring on a play that the refs should have stopped btw and was unable to play and they tried the punter on a PA and he missed severely.. What should he have done? While i dont always agree with some of his decisions thi one after understanding the facts is a non starter unless you are looking for reasons now.
This. Gano was healthy pregame from all accounts. The hamstring was unrelated to the groin, why would they have a second kicker active?
Because he was goddam injured. Even if Gano could have kicked all game, the second kicker should still have been elevated. Pure incompetence for all to see.
isn't complicated. If the Giants start 0-8, 1-7, or 2-6, and finish with three or four wins, Daboll will be fired. Schoen likely will be as well. They will have had three years at that point.
My hope if that happens is that we don't hire Belichick. He's too old, and as someone said, NE drafted horribly during his last few years.
Who are in the locker room can’t see the vibe of the players?
you mean like Pat Leonard saying Nabers was pissed off and his injurybwas worse than they said?
Problem is no one trusts the best writers, Dunleavy is a troll, Leonard makes up shit to stir the pot and Ranaan knows everytime he makes a negative comment he is going tk get attention
The little I saw of Daboll on Hard Knocks other than the QB interviews
Who are in the locker room can’t see the vibe of the players?
you mean like Pat Leonard saying Nabers was pissed off and his injurybwas worse than they said?
Problem is no one trusts the best writers, Dunleavy is a troll, Leonard makes up shit to stir the pot and Ranaan knows everytime he makes a negative comment he is going tk get attention
Who are in the locker room can’t see the vibe of the players?
you mean like Pat Leonard saying Nabers was pissed off and his injurybwas worse than they said?
Problem is no one trusts the best writers, Dunleavy is a troll, Leonard makes up shit to stir the pot and Ranaan knows everytime he makes a negative comment he is going tk get attention
Where did Leonard say that? Genuine question.
When he first reported it, said Nabers was acting different and seemed angry at his locker, even lied about people asming if he was ok
WR Malik Nabers was acting not like himself in the locker room today. Some players were asking him how he was. Now we know why: he’s now on the injury report as limited with a knee injury
It doesn’t say it was worse and Nabers probably was upset about getting hurt. I don’t see the issue, and this is coming from a Leonard hater for how he treated Odell
if you think Schoen is scapegoating Daboll and Daboll didn't sign off on Jones you're an idiot. Sorry, that's harsh but pay attention to how teams operate. The HC has a shit load of influence and power. They literally build the roster along with the GM who is doing GM things.
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
"Can you work with him short term while we pick Nabers? NE wants to stripmine us for draft picks. "
"yeah, we can make it work, Joe." and "yeah, lock him up, i love the guy" are very different worlds of 'signing off'. Which one is more realistic?
Nabors dropping an easy catch and a D that couldn't get one stop did. There is cause for optimism, but most on here threw in the towel after the draft, so they can't see it.
Nabors dropping an easy catch and a D that couldn't get one stop did. There is cause for optimism, but most on here threw in the towel after the draft, so they can't see it.
You believe not being able to kick 3 PATs in a game we lost by 3 points had nothing to do with the outcome, but a guy dropping a pass at the 22 yard line in a time game when we couldn't kick a field goal did?
Nabors dropping an easy catch and a D that couldn't get one stop did. There is cause for optimism, but most on here threw in the towel after the draft, so they can't see it.
The erasure of Spécial Teams continues.
RE: The little I saw of Daboll on Hard Knocks other than the QB interviews
if you think Schoen is scapegoating Daboll and Daboll didn't sign off on Jones you're an idiot. Sorry, that's harsh but pay attention to how teams operate. The HC has a shit load of influence and power. They literally build the roster along with the GM who is doing GM things.
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
"Can you work with him short term while we pick Nabers? NE wants to stripmine us for draft picks. "
"yeah, we can make it work, Joe." and "yeah, lock him up, i love the guy" are very different worlds of 'signing off'. Which one is more realistic?
Exactly how much time do Schoen and Daboll think they have while all leading indicators for success are pointing the wrong way for them?
It's year 3 for these guys now and thing are not getting better.
We are nowhere at QB and they own it. No matter blaming the boogeyman Gettleman. Daboll had a very public falling out with one of his coordinators. His staff hires look questionable, including his new D coordinator who hasn't been able to stop a runny nose in 2 games. His judgement/decision making is looking worse and worse each week. There are many examples now.
If someone asked what Schoen and Daboll are building towards, what exactly is the answer? Because I have no idea. They spew this smart, tough and dependable but don't even follow it! Do players like Jones, Waller, Tyrod Taylor or Parris Campbell check those boxes?
if you think Schoen is scapegoating Daboll and Daboll didn't sign off on Jones you're an idiot. Sorry, that's harsh but pay attention to how teams operate. The HC has a shit load of influence and power. They literally build the roster along with the GM who is doing GM things.
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
"Can you work with him short term while we pick Nabers? NE wants to stripmine us for draft picks. "
"yeah, we can make it work, Joe." and "yeah, lock him up, i love the guy" are very different worlds of 'signing off'. Which one is more realistic?
Exactly how much time do Schoen and Daboll think they have while all leading indicators for success are pointing the wrong way for them?
It's year 3 for these guys now and thing are not getting better.
We are nowhere at QB and they own it. No matter blaming the boogeyman Gettleman. Daboll had a very public falling out with one of his coordinators. His staff hires look questionable, including his new D coordinator who hasn't been able to stop a runny nose in 2 games. His judgement/decision making is looking worse and worse each week. There are many examples now.
If someone asked what Schoen and Daboll are building towards, what exactly is the answer? Because I have no idea. They spew this smart, tough and dependable but don't even follow it! Do players like Jones, Waller, Tyrod Taylor or Parris Campbell check those boxes?
Is the OL better?
Is the Wr room better?
Is the DL better?
Is the LBs better?
Is the secondary better?
So really the only thing you have to blame on Schoen is the QB and rightfully so, they messed up but you keep acting like they havnt improved the team from when they took over
if you think Schoen is scapegoating Daboll and Daboll didn't sign off on Jones you're an idiot. Sorry, that's harsh but pay attention to how teams operate. The HC has a shit load of influence and power. They literally build the roster along with the GM who is doing GM things.
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
"Can you work with him short term while we pick Nabers? NE wants to stripmine us for draft picks. "
"yeah, we can make it work, Joe." and "yeah, lock him up, i love the guy" are very different worlds of 'signing off'. Which one is more realistic?
Exactly how much time do Schoen and Daboll think they have while all leading indicators for success are pointing the wrong way for them?
It's year 3 for these guys now and thing are not getting better.
We are nowhere at QB and they own it. No matter blaming the boogeyman Gettleman. Daboll had a very public falling out with one of his coordinators. His staff hires look questionable, including his new D coordinator who hasn't been able to stop a runny nose in 2 games. His judgement/decision making is looking worse and worse each week. There are many examples now.
If someone asked what Schoen and Daboll are building towards, what exactly is the answer? Because I have no idea. They spew this smart, tough and dependable but don't even follow it! Do players like Jones, Waller, Tyrod Taylor or Parris Campbell check those boxes?
Is the OL better?
Is the Wr room better?
Is the DL better?
Is the LBs better?
Is the secondary better?
So really the only thing you have to blame on Schoen is the QB and rightfully so, they messed up but you keep acting like they havnt improved the team from when they took over
Improved would be pretty easy with where we were. Actually being good is a different question. Also, very curious as to why the overall team is not any good if we are so improved in all of these areas.
I would love for you to be right and me to be wrong, but by the time November comes this team will be 2-6 or worse. You can write it down.
so either the improved talent schoen added didnt fit strategically or he hired the wrong head coach who is leading underperformance.
the reporting that inspired this thread indicates that the latter continues to ebb closer to obviousness, and how could it not after the kicker fiasco?
i dont think it is too extreme to say that daboll's is staring into the abyss right now and if he cant scratch out a win and some competitive football in the next 6 days, it may all come crashing down. once players lose belief the bottom drops.
I don't understand the Jones comments. He is the best QB on the roster. It would be one thing if he was starting over Maye or another rookie.
He's starting over Lock and DeVito. These players aren't better than him.
You do understand that this is the exact reason many of us are fed up, right? There is simply no reason in the world that Jones should still be the best option on this team. It’s ridiculous that they didn’t upgrade the position with a better backup and I think it’s incredibly obvious it was because they didn’t WANT to upgrade the back up position so as to not put any more pressure on poor little Daniel. It’s infuriating
I no respect for a beat who enjoys stirring up trouble. That's what this is creating, probably made-up problems, for a team trying to stabilize the season. Screw off schmuck!!!
This regime started off 7-2 with the talent that existed already. They are subsequently 9-19-1 since
They inherited a top 5 draft choice and soon to be expiring contracts on Jones & Saquon that could have created alot of cap space
The best players here are still Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.
The received extra draft picks for Leonard Williams & Kadarius Toney. They for some reason chose not to trade Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney at 1-5 last year for even more picks
of why they didn't attempt to upgrade the QB after seeing how the off season played out.
Not sure about being close to losing the team but I think at least some players are questioning the HC after how the first two games played out. Need some wins and if they get blown out a couple more times it could get ugly.
This regime started off 7-2 with the talent that existed already. They are subsequently 9-19-1 since
They inherited a top 5 draft choice and soon to be expiring contracts on Jones & Saquon that could have created alot of cap space
The best players here are still Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.
The received extra draft picks for Leonard Williams & Kadarius Toney. They for some reason chose not to trade Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney at 1-5 last year for even more picks
i mean they arent starting multiple veterans at the league minimum, many signed off the street week 2 like year 1.
by the end of year 1 i think they had somewhere between 5-10 starters from street FA/waiver claims and most werent even due to injuries (hodgins, jaylon smith, jarrad davis, mccloud, moureau, etc).
This regime started off 7-2 with the talent that existed already. They are subsequently 9-19-1 since
They inherited a top 5 draft choice and soon to be expiring contracts on Jones & Saquon that could have created alot of cap space
The best players here are still Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.
The received extra draft picks for Leonard Williams & Kadarius Toney. They for some reason chose not to trade Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney at 1-5 last year for even more picks
It’s definitely better. If they had competent QB play I think there’s enough talent to be an 8-9 win team as a ceiling.
In areas like WR the talent is clearly better. I'm not sure on balance if I believe the talent is much ahead from the 2022 group. Compared to the Vikings playoff starters, this is where I think today stands.
Daniel Jones =
Saquon Barkley -
Isaiah Hodgins +
Darius Slayton =
Richie James +
Daniel Bellinger -
Nick Gates +
Andrew Thomas =
Evan Neal +
Mark Glowinski =
Jon Feliciano =
Leonard Williams -
Dexter Lawrence =
Azeez Ojulari +
Kayvon Thibodeaux
Jaylon Smith +
Jarrad Davis =
Adoree' Jackson
Darnay Holmes +
Julian Love -
Xavier McKinney -
Fabian Moreau +
if you think Schoen is scapegoating Daboll and Daboll didn't sign off on Jones you're an idiot. Sorry, that's harsh but pay attention to how teams operate. The HC has a shit load of influence and power. They literally build the roster along with the GM who is doing GM things.
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
Yes, I do believe Daboll was up for bringing Jones back in 2023 and attempting the next phase without training wheels. He's got an ego and probably thought it was worth the stretch.
But Schoen drove the economics, not Daboll. Does Daboll at all strike you as someone who is remotely interested in the contract/cap/cash details?
RE: the talent is better but the results are the same
so either the improved talent schoen added didnt fit strategically or he hired the wrong head coach who is leading underperformance.
the reporting that inspired this thread indicates that the latter continues to ebb closer to obviousness, and how could it not after the kicker fiasco?
i dont think it is too extreme to say that daboll's is staring into the abyss right now and if he cant scratch out a win and some competitive football in the next 6 days, it may all come crashing down. once players lose belief the bottom drops.
Or there's a bottleneck elsewhere on the roster that impedes the otherwise improved talent from translating to wins.
My guess is that Schoen and Dabs were on the same page with the Jones deal and Dabs thought he could make Jones reach another level & probably realized that wasn’t happening after the pick six vs. Seattle. And I think Dabs, in his heart, knows Jones isn’t going to get him fired.
so either the improved talent schoen added didnt fit strategically or he hired the wrong head coach who is leading underperformance.
the reporting that inspired this thread indicates that the latter continues to ebb closer to obviousness, and how could it not after the kicker fiasco?
i dont think it is too extreme to say that daboll's is staring into the abyss right now and if he cant scratch out a win and some competitive football in the next 6 days, it may all come crashing down. once players lose belief the bottom drops.
Or there's a bottleneck elsewhere on the roster that impedes the otherwise improved talent from translating to wins.
weird argument to make a few days after said bottleneck made the plays to win but slayton dropped a 2 pt conversion, nabers drops 4th down pass, singletary fumbles in fg range, coach/gm leave at least 6 more points on the field not having a kicker (or defense).
leaderships entire job is "translating to wins", certainly by year 3 - excusing that bc of a bottleneck they chose and chose not to draft over after losing to a team whose leadership is in game 2 and whose own rookie bottleneck didnt even score a td is some next level pretzel twisting. there's a reason no other team in almost 40 years has lost when scoring 3 tds against the opponents 0.
lol. it's scary how much people are refusing to see clearly how bad this situation is. it is really 2021 all over again, right down to losing on a kick to washington week 2.
after week 1 this organization was given the easiest test possible to show that something was different from 2021. sure you got beat down at home by darnold just as embarrassingly pat shurmur/bridgewater, but there's no way you can lose in washington on a last second kick in a game you deserve to win again can you? challenge accepted!
week 3 in 2021 was the atlanta loss at home as time expired and i believe joe judge's first infamous "it's gonna be ok" press conference. with dallas looming on Thursday the next 6 days are probably going to determine where coach daboll's kids go to school next year.
RE: RE: Is the talent better? Where is the evidence?
This regime started off 7-2 with the talent that existed already. They are subsequently 9-19-1 since
They inherited a top 5 draft choice and soon to be expiring contracts on Jones & Saquon that could have created alot of cap space
The best players here are still Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.
The received extra draft picks for Leonard Williams & Kadarius Toney. They for some reason chose not to trade Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney at 1-5 last year for even more picks
It’s definitely better. If they had competent QB play I think there’s enough talent to be an 8-9 win team as a ceiling.
With an actual, real, good NFL QB, this could easily be a playoff team. Setting aside QB, the main weakness seems to be stopping the run, but I'm hopeful that could be fixed.
LOL right? Diminishing confidence in leadership is a journey. And in my experience there are a couple of common variables:
- the broader group feels the wrong individuals are being rewarded or utilized
- the broader group is not aware of or in agreement with the strategies
- the broader group does not believe leadership actually has or can execute a cogent strategy
When those symptoms start to arise, it becomes an exercise in self-fulfilling identification of corroborating evidence.
There is typically no incentive for individuals to express there feelings outside of safe spaces. That some individuals are apparently stepping outside of those spaces isn't a reflection of what's transpired over 2 weeks.
RE: RE: RE: the talent is better but the results are the same
so either the improved talent schoen added didnt fit strategically or he hired the wrong head coach who is leading underperformance.
the reporting that inspired this thread indicates that the latter continues to ebb closer to obviousness, and how could it not after the kicker fiasco?
i dont think it is too extreme to say that daboll's is staring into the abyss right now and if he cant scratch out a win and some competitive football in the next 6 days, it may all come crashing down. once players lose belief the bottom drops.
Or there's a bottleneck elsewhere on the roster that impedes the otherwise improved talent from translating to wins.
weird argument to make a few days after said bottleneck made the plays to win but slayton dropped a 2 pt conversion, nabers drops 4th down pass, singletary fumbles in fg range, coach/gm leave at least 6 more points on the field not having a kicker (or defense).
leaderships entire job is "translating to wins", certainly by year 3 - excusing that bc of a bottleneck they chose and chose not to draft over after losing to a team whose leadership is in game 2 and whose own rookie bottleneck didnt even score a td is some next level pretzel twisting. there's a reason no other team in almost 40 years has lost when scoring 3 tds against the opponents 0.
I'm not defending Daboll.
I'm just saying that it's difficult to get a sense of how much the roster has improved when the QB situation remains a WIP. If that's too difficult to process without calling it "next level pretzel twisting," I can only assume that you have never actually seen a pretzel.
Maybe week 2 was a final straw for some player(s), but I doubt losing a game they should have won on a less second field goal took anyone from neutral on their boss, to speaking to the press.
My guess is that player(s) has witnessed the last 20 games, and reflects on things like:
- Opponents openly mocking the Giants
- Players like Daniel Jones being rewarded at many multiples of better pound-for-pound players that have left
- Developing strategies that have major fatal flaws, for instance one playable IDL on the roster
- Yes, the abject lunacy of having Gano participate in kick coverage
Quote:
The combination of the team repeatedly displaying the same weaknesses - predictable offense, soft defense, indifferent special teams - and Daboll's demeanor (basically a stonewall of cool contempt) is a horrible mixture.
Think about it. You're on a team making the same damn mistakes season after season, and when pressed about it your coach, your leader's response to criticism is to either stonewall or act like it's not such a big deal (the coach equivalent of "U mad bro?").
No public accountability - unless you're an offensive lineman or a backup receiver, I guess.
The aegument isnt if Players annoyed, its do you actually believe a player sought out Ranaan to spew this?
Do I think it is plausible a beat reporter talked to players off the record? Of course.
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
I think they both decided after Jones good year the smart thing was to sign him to a deal and keep him and if he plays well grest have him for 4 years or at worst case have him for 2 and get rid of him..
When they saw the writing on the wall they tried to get a young QB, it didnt work, they bit the bullett and stuck with Jones for anothe ryear while fixing the Oline and weapons...
Daboll was brought in because of his expertise with QBs. His support of Jones calls into question just how good he is at it. Maybe Josh Allen would have developed into a stud QB with or without Brian Daboll? I think it is silly to assume Allen is a bust absent Daboll.
Why do you think there were certain beats who fell all over themselves to stick up for players like OBJ or Barkley? There is a two-way relationship there, not a one way hero worship.
Quote:
This according to Gano is an incorrect assumption -he was launching from 60yds pre game and felt fine -so why would daboll done anything differently?? Gano hurt has hamstring on a play that the refs should have stopped btw and was unable to play and they tried the punter on a PA and he missed severely.. What should he have done? While i dont always agree with some of his decisions thi one after understanding the facts is a non starter unless you are looking for reasons now.
This. Gano was healthy pregame from all accounts. The hamstring was unrelated to the groin, why would they have a second kicker active?
Because he was goddam injured. Even if Gano could have kicked all game, the second kicker should still have been elevated. Pure incompetence for all to see.
My hope if that happens is that we don't hire Belichick. He's too old, and as someone said, NE drafted horribly during his last few years.
To get a 4th year you have to win 7+ games and not have a interpersonal blowup.
This is Daboll's prove-it year, no excuses required.
you mean like Pat Leonard saying Nabers was pissed off and his injurybwas worse than they said?
Problem is no one trusts the best writers, Dunleavy is a troll, Leonard makes up shit to stir the pot and Ranaan knows everytime he makes a negative comment he is going tk get attention
Who goes to the bosses office in front of the owners and sits there like Jabba the Hut with his feet on the table.
He looks like some lucky winner of "Visit the Giants facility for the day" contest winner.
Meh.
Ready for a new coach like Vrable or Bill or even Gruden....a pro's pro!
Quote:
Who are in the locker room can’t see the vibe of the players?
you mean like Pat Leonard saying Nabers was pissed off and his injurybwas worse than they said?
Problem is no one trusts the best writers, Dunleavy is a troll, Leonard makes up shit to stir the pot and Ranaan knows everytime he makes a negative comment he is going tk get attention
Where did Leonard say that? Genuine question.
Quote:
In comment 16616628 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
Who are in the locker room can’t see the vibe of the players?
you mean like Pat Leonard saying Nabers was pissed off and his injurybwas worse than they said?
Problem is no one trusts the best writers, Dunleavy is a troll, Leonard makes up shit to stir the pot and Ranaan knows everytime he makes a negative comment he is going tk get attention
Where did Leonard say that? Genuine question.
When he first reported it, said Nabers was acting different and seemed angry at his locker, even lied about people asming if he was ok
It doesn’t say it was worse and Nabers probably was upset about getting hurt. I don’t see the issue, and this is coming from a Leonard hater for how he treated Odell
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
"Can you work with him short term while we pick Nabers? NE wants to stripmine us for draft picks. "
"yeah, we can make it work, Joe." and "yeah, lock him up, i love the guy" are very different worlds of 'signing off'. Which one is more realistic?
You believe not being able to kick 3 PATs in a game we lost by 3 points had nothing to do with the outcome, but a guy dropping a pass at the 22 yard line in a time game when we couldn't kick a field goal did?
Your logic making thingy seems to be broken.
He's starting over Lock and DeVito. These players aren't better than him.
That's hard to say when you lose. Unprovable counterfactuals are the bread and butter of these discussions.
The erasure of Spécial Teams continues.
Who goes to the bosses office in front of the owners and sits there like Jabba the Hut with his feet on the table.
He looks like some lucky winner of "Visit the Giants facility for the day" contest winner.
Meh.
Ready for a new coach like Vrable or Bill or even Gruden....a pro's pro!
It is a mistake to compare NFL HC to any of our jobs.
Just as our image of any of the candidates is a curated look through a keyhole.
Quote:
if you think Schoen is scapegoating Daboll and Daboll didn't sign off on Jones you're an idiot. Sorry, that's harsh but pay attention to how teams operate. The HC has a shit load of influence and power. They literally build the roster along with the GM who is doing GM things.
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
"Can you work with him short term while we pick Nabers? NE wants to stripmine us for draft picks. "
"yeah, we can make it work, Joe." and "yeah, lock him up, i love the guy" are very different worlds of 'signing off'. Which one is more realistic?
Exactly how much time do Schoen and Daboll think they have while all leading indicators for success are pointing the wrong way for them?
It's year 3 for these guys now and thing are not getting better.
We are nowhere at QB and they own it. No matter blaming the boogeyman Gettleman. Daboll had a very public falling out with one of his coordinators. His staff hires look questionable, including his new D coordinator who hasn't been able to stop a runny nose in 2 games. His judgement/decision making is looking worse and worse each week. There are many examples now.
If someone asked what Schoen and Daboll are building towards, what exactly is the answer? Because I have no idea. They spew this smart, tough and dependable but don't even follow it! Do players like Jones, Waller, Tyrod Taylor or Parris Campbell check those boxes?
The hard reality is this young man who has been the best wherever he has been is a 3rd round pick behind a veteran.
If you wish to use college terms, he got recruited over. The rookie is starting.
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In comment 16616575 djm said:
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if you think Schoen is scapegoating Daboll and Daboll didn't sign off on Jones you're an idiot. Sorry, that's harsh but pay attention to how teams operate. The HC has a shit load of influence and power. They literally build the roster along with the GM who is doing GM things.
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
"Can you work with him short term while we pick Nabers? NE wants to stripmine us for draft picks. "
"yeah, we can make it work, Joe." and "yeah, lock him up, i love the guy" are very different worlds of 'signing off'. Which one is more realistic?
Exactly how much time do Schoen and Daboll think they have while all leading indicators for success are pointing the wrong way for them?
It's year 3 for these guys now and thing are not getting better.
We are nowhere at QB and they own it. No matter blaming the boogeyman Gettleman. Daboll had a very public falling out with one of his coordinators. His staff hires look questionable, including his new D coordinator who hasn't been able to stop a runny nose in 2 games. His judgement/decision making is looking worse and worse each week. There are many examples now.
If someone asked what Schoen and Daboll are building towards, what exactly is the answer? Because I have no idea. They spew this smart, tough and dependable but don't even follow it! Do players like Jones, Waller, Tyrod Taylor or Parris Campbell check those boxes?
Is the OL better?
Is the Wr room better?
Is the DL better?
Is the LBs better?
Is the secondary better?
So really the only thing you have to blame on Schoen is the QB and rightfully so, they messed up but you keep acting like they havnt improved the team from when they took over
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In comment 16616698 Ten Ton Hammer said:
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In comment 16616575 djm said:
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if you think Schoen is scapegoating Daboll and Daboll didn't sign off on Jones you're an idiot. Sorry, that's harsh but pay attention to how teams operate. The HC has a shit load of influence and power. They literally build the roster along with the GM who is doing GM things.
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
"Can you work with him short term while we pick Nabers? NE wants to stripmine us for draft picks. "
"yeah, we can make it work, Joe." and "yeah, lock him up, i love the guy" are very different worlds of 'signing off'. Which one is more realistic?
Exactly how much time do Schoen and Daboll think they have while all leading indicators for success are pointing the wrong way for them?
It's year 3 for these guys now and thing are not getting better.
We are nowhere at QB and they own it. No matter blaming the boogeyman Gettleman. Daboll had a very public falling out with one of his coordinators. His staff hires look questionable, including his new D coordinator who hasn't been able to stop a runny nose in 2 games. His judgement/decision making is looking worse and worse each week. There are many examples now.
If someone asked what Schoen and Daboll are building towards, what exactly is the answer? Because I have no idea. They spew this smart, tough and dependable but don't even follow it! Do players like Jones, Waller, Tyrod Taylor or Parris Campbell check those boxes?
Is the OL better?
Is the Wr room better?
Is the DL better?
Is the LBs better?
Is the secondary better?
So really the only thing you have to blame on Schoen is the QB and rightfully so, they messed up but you keep acting like they havnt improved the team from when they took over
Improved would be pretty easy with where we were. Actually being good is a different question. Also, very curious as to why the overall team is not any good if we are so improved in all of these areas.
I would love for you to be right and me to be wrong, but by the time November comes this team will be 2-6 or worse. You can write it down.
the reporting that inspired this thread indicates that the latter continues to ebb closer to obviousness, and how could it not after the kicker fiasco?
i dont think it is too extreme to say that daboll's is staring into the abyss right now and if he cant scratch out a win and some competitive football in the next 6 days, it may all come crashing down. once players lose belief the bottom drops.
He's starting over Lock and DeVito. These players aren't better than him.
You do understand that this is the exact reason many of us are fed up, right? There is simply no reason in the world that Jones should still be the best option on this team. It’s ridiculous that they didn’t upgrade the position with a better backup and I think it’s incredibly obvious it was because they didn’t WANT to upgrade the back up position so as to not put any more pressure on poor little Daniel. It’s infuriating
I no respect for a beat who enjoys stirring up trouble. That's what this is creating, probably made-up problems, for a team trying to stabilize the season. Screw off schmuck!!!
They inherited a top 5 draft choice and soon to be expiring contracts on Jones & Saquon that could have created alot of cap space
The best players here are still Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.
The received extra draft picks for Leonard Williams & Kadarius Toney. They for some reason chose not to trade Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney at 1-5 last year for even more picks
Not sure about being close to losing the team but I think at least some players are questioning the HC after how the first two games played out. Need some wins and if they get blown out a couple more times it could get ugly.
They inherited a top 5 draft choice and soon to be expiring contracts on Jones & Saquon that could have created alot of cap space
The best players here are still Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.
The received extra draft picks for Leonard Williams & Kadarius Toney. They for some reason chose not to trade Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney at 1-5 last year for even more picks
i mean they arent starting multiple veterans at the league minimum, many signed off the street week 2 like year 1.
by the end of year 1 i think they had somewhere between 5-10 starters from street FA/waiver claims and most werent even due to injuries (hodgins, jaylon smith, jarrad davis, mccloud, moureau, etc).
They inherited a top 5 draft choice and soon to be expiring contracts on Jones & Saquon that could have created alot of cap space
The best players here are still Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.
The received extra draft picks for Leonard Williams & Kadarius Toney. They for some reason chose not to trade Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney at 1-5 last year for even more picks
It’s definitely better. If they had competent QB play I think there’s enough talent to be an 8-9 win team as a ceiling.
Man… I miss the days of Jerry Izenberg at the Star Ledger.
Daniel Jones =
Saquon Barkley -
Isaiah Hodgins +
Darius Slayton =
Richie James +
Daniel Bellinger -
Nick Gates +
Andrew Thomas =
Evan Neal +
Mark Glowinski =
Jon Feliciano =
Leonard Williams -
Dexter Lawrence =
Azeez Ojulari +
Kayvon Thibodeaux
Jaylon Smith +
Jarrad Davis =
Adoree' Jackson
Darnay Holmes +
Julian Love -
Xavier McKinney -
Fabian Moreau +
How the hell could anyone sit here and think that Daboll didn't want Jones???? If anything, one could actually speculate that Schoen DIDN'T really want to keep Jones and Daboll pushed for it. HCs don't get saddled with a QB they don't want for 2-3 years running...very rare if it happens. And you'd know about it by now because the HC would have benched the QB or leaked shit to the press.
Think.
Yes, I do believe Daboll was up for bringing Jones back in 2023 and attempting the next phase without training wheels. He's got an ego and probably thought it was worth the stretch.
But Schoen drove the economics, not Daboll. Does Daboll at all strike you as someone who is remotely interested in the contract/cap/cash details?
the reporting that inspired this thread indicates that the latter continues to ebb closer to obviousness, and how could it not after the kicker fiasco?
i dont think it is too extreme to say that daboll's is staring into the abyss right now and if he cant scratch out a win and some competitive football in the next 6 days, it may all come crashing down. once players lose belief the bottom drops.
Or there's a bottleneck elsewhere on the roster that impedes the otherwise improved talent from translating to wins.
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so either the improved talent schoen added didnt fit strategically or he hired the wrong head coach who is leading underperformance.
the reporting that inspired this thread indicates that the latter continues to ebb closer to obviousness, and how could it not after the kicker fiasco?
i dont think it is too extreme to say that daboll's is staring into the abyss right now and if he cant scratch out a win and some competitive football in the next 6 days, it may all come crashing down. once players lose belief the bottom drops.
Or there's a bottleneck elsewhere on the roster that impedes the otherwise improved talent from translating to wins.
weird argument to make a few days after said bottleneck made the plays to win but slayton dropped a 2 pt conversion, nabers drops 4th down pass, singletary fumbles in fg range, coach/gm leave at least 6 more points on the field not having a kicker (or defense).
leaderships entire job is "translating to wins", certainly by year 3 - excusing that bc of a bottleneck they chose and chose not to draft over after losing to a team whose leadership is in game 2 and whose own rookie bottleneck didnt even score a td is some next level pretzel twisting. there's a reason no other team in almost 40 years has lost when scoring 3 tds against the opponents 0.
lol. it's scary how much people are refusing to see clearly how bad this situation is. it is really 2021 all over again, right down to losing on a kick to washington week 2.
after week 1 this organization was given the easiest test possible to show that something was different from 2021. sure you got beat down at home by darnold just as embarrassingly pat shurmur/bridgewater, but there's no way you can lose in washington on a last second kick in a game you deserve to win again can you? challenge accepted!
week 3 in 2021 was the atlanta loss at home as time expired and i believe joe judge's first infamous "it's gonna be ok" press conference. with dallas looming on Thursday the next 6 days are probably going to determine where coach daboll's kids go to school next year.
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This regime started off 7-2 with the talent that existed already. They are subsequently 9-19-1 since
They inherited a top 5 draft choice and soon to be expiring contracts on Jones & Saquon that could have created alot of cap space
The best players here are still Andrew Thomas and Dexter Lawrence.
The received extra draft picks for Leonard Williams & Kadarius Toney. They for some reason chose not to trade Saquon Barkley or Xavier McKinney at 1-5 last year for even more picks
It’s definitely better. If they had competent QB play I think there’s enough talent to be an 8-9 win team as a ceiling.
With an actual, real, good NFL QB, this could easily be a playoff team. Setting aside QB, the main weakness seems to be stopping the run, but I'm hopeful that could be fixed.
LOL right? Diminishing confidence in leadership is a journey. And in my experience there are a couple of common variables:
- the broader group feels the wrong individuals are being rewarded or utilized
- the broader group is not aware of or in agreement with the strategies
- the broader group does not believe leadership actually has or can execute a cogent strategy
When those symptoms start to arise, it becomes an exercise in self-fulfilling identification of corroborating evidence.
There is typically no incentive for individuals to express there feelings outside of safe spaces. That some individuals are apparently stepping outside of those spaces isn't a reflection of what's transpired over 2 weeks.
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In comment 16616785 Eric on Li said:
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so either the improved talent schoen added didnt fit strategically or he hired the wrong head coach who is leading underperformance.
the reporting that inspired this thread indicates that the latter continues to ebb closer to obviousness, and how could it not after the kicker fiasco?
i dont think it is too extreme to say that daboll's is staring into the abyss right now and if he cant scratch out a win and some competitive football in the next 6 days, it may all come crashing down. once players lose belief the bottom drops.
Or there's a bottleneck elsewhere on the roster that impedes the otherwise improved talent from translating to wins.
weird argument to make a few days after said bottleneck made the plays to win but slayton dropped a 2 pt conversion, nabers drops 4th down pass, singletary fumbles in fg range, coach/gm leave at least 6 more points on the field not having a kicker (or defense).
leaderships entire job is "translating to wins", certainly by year 3 - excusing that bc of a bottleneck they chose and chose not to draft over after losing to a team whose leadership is in game 2 and whose own rookie bottleneck didnt even score a td is some next level pretzel twisting. there's a reason no other team in almost 40 years has lost when scoring 3 tds against the opponents 0.
I'm not defending Daboll.
I'm just saying that it's difficult to get a sense of how much the roster has improved when the QB situation remains a WIP. If that's too difficult to process without calling it "next level pretzel twisting," I can only assume that you have never actually seen a pretzel.
My guess is that player(s) has witnessed the last 20 games, and reflects on things like:
- Opponents openly mocking the Giants
- Players like Daniel Jones being rewarded at many multiples of better pound-for-pound players that have left
- Developing strategies that have major fatal flaws, for instance one playable IDL on the roster
- Yes, the abject lunacy of having Gano participate in kick coverage