I'm just saying that it's difficult to get a sense of how much the roster has improved when the QB situation remains a WIP. If that's too difficult to process without calling it "next level pretzel twisting," I can only assume that you have never actually seen a pretzel.
it's not hard to assess that the OL is already much better than anything we've seen in years (maybe a decade) and Nabers is the best offensive player they've had since rookie year barkley/odell who were both all pro level ROYs.
the defense is what has been difficult to assess (or rather way too easy to assess poorly) yet burns/lawrence are the only multiple time pro bowlers on the roster and their 2 highest paid non-QBs. and somehow this D is struggling despite the back drop of poor opponent quality and leaguewide scoring down so much people are talking about rules to prevent 2 high safeties bc they are unfair for offenses. if only.
lol. it's scary how much people are refusing to see clearly how bad this situation is. it is really 2021 all over again, right down to losing on a kick to washington week 2.
after week 1 this organization was given the easiest test possible to show that something was different from 2021. sure you got beat down at home by darnold just as embarrassingly pat shurmur/bridgewater, but there's no way you can lose in washington on a last second kick in a game you deserve to win again can you? challenge accepted!
week 3 in 2021 was the atlanta loss at home as time expired and i believe joe judge's first infamous "it's gonna be ok" press conference. with dallas looming on Thursday the next 6 days are probably going to determine where coach daboll's kids go to school next year.
If this is 2021, there will be an improbable win to give brief, false confidence sometime soon. (Comeback win at NO in OT)
If this is 2021, there will be an improbable win to give brief, false confidence sometime soon. (Comeback win at NO in OT)
possibly - if that happens i could see it being this week since browns offense shouldnt be very good. watson stinks and fresh distraction, no chubb, etc. jameis was the NO qb in that game and its not impossible he ends up the browns qb before long too.
if the offense can put points up it's a winnable game.
and of course the game right after NO was Dallas lol.
and actually sean not to go down too deep a rabbit hole...
but looking back at the 2021 schedule im reminded that in week 12 somehow joe judge/daniel jones beat nick siriani/jalen hurts to move to 4-7 while philly moved to 5-7. which was probably the high point of that season.
jones was done after that game but before we knew that there was a glimmer of possibility i guess. if they'd been 6-5 when jones was healthy having just not blown the games vs wash/atl joe judge probably gets his year 3.
if they go 4-5 in the next 9 with a win over philly or dallas this year that would seem a minor miracle. and even that only gets to the bar of where joe judge was in week 12 of 2021.
lol. it's scary how much people are refusing to see clearly how bad this situation is. it is really 2021 all over again, right down to losing on a kick to washington week 2.
after week 1 this organization was given the easiest test possible to show that something was different from 2021. sure you got beat down at home by darnold just as embarrassingly pat shurmur/bridgewater, but there's no way you can lose in washington on a last second kick in a game you deserve to win again can you? challenge accepted!
week 3 in 2021 was the atlanta loss at home as time expired and i believe joe judge's first infamous "it's gonna be ok" press conference. with dallas looming on Thursday the next 6 days are probably going to determine where coach daboll's kids go to school next year.
I think NFL seasons are super fragile. Early season success, especially for a team like the Giants who has middling talent (at best), is crucial. Guys start to make business decisions at 0-2 or 0-3, blame starts being allocated, etc.
It feels like it's all going to implode and the schedule is going to start getting tougher.
RE: RE: RE: RE: RE: the talent is better but the results are the same
I'm just saying that it's difficult to get a sense of how much the roster has improved when the QB situation remains a WIP. If that's too difficult to process without calling it "next level pretzel twisting," I can only assume that you have never actually seen a pretzel.
it's not hard to assess that the OL is already much better than anything we've seen in years (maybe a decade) and Nabers is the best offensive player they've had since rookie year barkley/odell who were both all pro level ROYs.
the defense is what has been difficult to assess (or rather way too easy to assess poorly) yet burns/lawrence are the only multiple time pro bowlers on the roster and their 2 highest paid non-QBs. and somehow this D is struggling despite the back drop of poor opponent quality and leaguewide scoring down so much people are talking about rules to prevent 2 high safeties bc they are unfair for offenses. if only.
The offense has scored 24 points in two games, despite an improved OL and the addition of what appears to be a potential game-changing WR1. I'm not ready to call that a win just yet, looking at the offense holistically rather than just the parts that do appear to be improved (i.e., Are the RBs better? Are the TEs better? Is there enough OL depth to survive an entire season without a 5-alarm fire again? Is the WR position in general the sort of assortment that allows for the offense to operate the way that Daboll wants? Is the way that Daboll wants the offense to operate even any good? Etc, etc.)
RE: and actually sean not to go down too deep a rabbit hole...
but looking back at the 2021 schedule im reminded that in week 12 somehow joe judge/daniel jones beat nick siriani/jalen hurts to move to 4-7 while philly moved to 5-7. which was probably the high point of that season.
jones was done after that game but before we knew that there was a glimmer of possibility i guess. if they'd been 6-5 when jones was healthy having just not blown the games vs wash/atl joe judge probably gets his year 3.
if they go 4-5 in the next 9 with a win over philly or dallas this year that would seem a minor miracle. and even that only gets to the bar of where joe judge was in week 12 of 2021.
Yep. A few times it felt like they may have stabilized that season. Beat Carolina to get to 2-5 and really could have won in KC on that Monday night game. Beat LV to get to 3-6. Beat Philly to get to 4-7.
Another similar twist is the QB situation behind Jones. NYG was stuck playing Glennon and Fromm. NYG criticized for not having anyone better than Lock and DeVito this year.
At 4-7 that year I did not think Judge was getting fired. I'm sure Judge was upset he got canned considering he was stuck paying Glennon and Fromm down the stretch.
Daboll will need a moment where it feels like he stabilized the season. I think it has to come Sunday because I just hate that matchup against Dallas on a short week even with the OL playing better.
It's why I think a mid season firing is not out of the question. Imagine if NYG is 0-6 and Barkley is shredding the Shane Bowen defense for 125 yards and 3 TD's. Schoen and Daboll could very well be fired on the morning of 10/21. If you think it's crazy, it happened with LV last year.
I think NFL seasons are super fragile. Early season success, especially for a team like the Giants who has middling talent (at best), is crucial. Guys start to make business decisions at 0-2 or 0-3, blame starts being allocated, etc.
It feels like it's all going to implode and the schedule is going to start getting tougher.
the fragile thing is exactly right - live shot of them week 2 deciding on kicker situation:
it can flip the other way quickly too, this place will be lit up 6 days from now if they are some how 2-2 myself included, but statistically the odds they end up there are easily in the +1000 range. that's where this regime is, they need to pull a rabbit out of a hat or else it's curtains. hoping for best but expecting the worst.
RE: RE: and actually sean not to go down too deep a rabbit hole...
but looking back at the 2021 schedule im reminded that in week 12 somehow joe judge/daniel jones beat nick siriani/jalen hurts to move to 4-7 while philly moved to 5-7. which was probably the high point of that season.
jones was done after that game but before we knew that there was a glimmer of possibility i guess. if they'd been 6-5 when jones was healthy having just not blown the games vs wash/atl joe judge probably gets his year 3.
if they go 4-5 in the next 9 with a win over philly or dallas this year that would seem a minor miracle. and even that only gets to the bar of where joe judge was in week 12 of 2021.
Yep. A few times it felt like they may have stabilized that season. Beat Carolina to get to 2-5 and really could have won in KC on that Monday night game. Beat LV to get to 3-6. Beat Philly to get to 4-7.
Another similar twist is the QB situation behind Jones. NYG was stuck playing Glennon and Fromm. NYG criticized for not having anyone better than Lock and DeVito this year.
At 4-7 that year I did not think Judge was getting fired. I'm sure Judge was upset he got canned considering he was stuck paying Glennon and Fromm down the stretch.
Daboll will need a moment where it feels like he stabilized the season. I think it has to come Sunday because I just hate that matchup against Dallas on a short week even with the OL playing better.
It's why I think a mid season firing is not out of the question. Imagine if NYG is 0-6 and Barkley is shredding the Shane Bowen defense for 125 yards and 3 TD's. Schoen and Daboll could very well be fired on the morning of 10/21. If you think it's crazy, it happened with LV last year.
id forgotten about that KC loss. ximines jump offsides on the love int is up there with our most disappointing losses in the last decade.
the big thing this year that's different is the looming presence of belichick, and all the interconnections of him and the giants org. daboll worked for him. bricillo worked for him. shane bowen came from his system (pees, vrabel).
there's no way mara isnt experiencing all the same ptsd we are. what we see on sundays he's living front row in person every day. if i were in his shoes there is no way id be able to resist calling belichick and giving him whatever he wanted to come in and figure it out.
I've said it before but it bears repeating... With what this team has had and endured over the first two seasons, Daboll has overachieved on any realistic expectations.
The only thing missing is their choice at QB. Mara would be wise to allow them another season to acquire that guy.
Okay, I'm actually with you on Daboll. He has overachieved with this roster.
And while I wanted them to lose every game after Halloween last year, he has shown good management keeping the team competitive with a putrid QB room.
The criticism about some of his in-game decisions are valid.
But I disagree that they don't have the QB of their choice. They re-committed to him on March 7th, 2023.
I'm not defending Daboll.
I'm just saying that it's difficult to get a sense of how much the roster has improved when the QB situation remains a WIP. If that's too difficult to process without calling it "next level pretzel twisting," I can only assume that you have never actually seen a pretzel.
it's not hard to assess that the OL is already much better than anything we've seen in years (maybe a decade) and Nabers is the best offensive player they've had since rookie year barkley/odell who were both all pro level ROYs.
the defense is what has been difficult to assess (or rather way too easy to assess poorly) yet burns/lawrence are the only multiple time pro bowlers on the roster and their 2 highest paid non-QBs. and somehow this D is struggling despite the back drop of poor opponent quality and leaguewide scoring down so much people are talking about rules to prevent 2 high safeties bc they are unfair for offenses. if only.
Quote:
So he had the team during the Vikings game?
lol. it's scary how much people are refusing to see clearly how bad this situation is. it is really 2021 all over again, right down to losing on a kick to washington week 2.
after week 1 this organization was given the easiest test possible to show that something was different from 2021. sure you got beat down at home by darnold just as embarrassingly pat shurmur/bridgewater, but there's no way you can lose in washington on a last second kick in a game you deserve to win again can you? challenge accepted!
week 3 in 2021 was the atlanta loss at home as time expired and i believe joe judge's first infamous "it's gonna be ok" press conference. with dallas looming on Thursday the next 6 days are probably going to determine where coach daboll's kids go to school next year.
If this is 2021, there will be an improbable win to give brief, false confidence sometime soon. (Comeback win at NO in OT)
If this is 2021, there will be an improbable win to give brief, false confidence sometime soon. (Comeback win at NO in OT)
possibly - if that happens i could see it being this week since browns offense shouldnt be very good. watson stinks and fresh distraction, no chubb, etc. jameis was the NO qb in that game and its not impossible he ends up the browns qb before long too.
if the offense can put points up it's a winnable game.
and of course the game right after NO was Dallas lol.
jones was done after that game but before we knew that there was a glimmer of possibility i guess. if they'd been 6-5 when jones was healthy having just not blown the games vs wash/atl joe judge probably gets his year 3.
if they go 4-5 in the next 9 with a win over philly or dallas this year that would seem a minor miracle. and even that only gets to the bar of where joe judge was in week 12 of 2021.
Quote:
So he had the team during the Vikings game?
lol. it's scary how much people are refusing to see clearly how bad this situation is. it is really 2021 all over again, right down to losing on a kick to washington week 2.
after week 1 this organization was given the easiest test possible to show that something was different from 2021. sure you got beat down at home by darnold just as embarrassingly pat shurmur/bridgewater, but there's no way you can lose in washington on a last second kick in a game you deserve to win again can you? challenge accepted!
week 3 in 2021 was the atlanta loss at home as time expired and i believe joe judge's first infamous "it's gonna be ok" press conference. with dallas looming on Thursday the next 6 days are probably going to determine where coach daboll's kids go to school next year.
I think NFL seasons are super fragile. Early season success, especially for a team like the Giants who has middling talent (at best), is crucial. Guys start to make business decisions at 0-2 or 0-3, blame starts being allocated, etc.
It feels like it's all going to implode and the schedule is going to start getting tougher.
Quote:
I'm not defending Daboll.
I'm just saying that it's difficult to get a sense of how much the roster has improved when the QB situation remains a WIP. If that's too difficult to process without calling it "next level pretzel twisting," I can only assume that you have never actually seen a pretzel.
it's not hard to assess that the OL is already much better than anything we've seen in years (maybe a decade) and Nabers is the best offensive player they've had since rookie year barkley/odell who were both all pro level ROYs.
the defense is what has been difficult to assess (or rather way too easy to assess poorly) yet burns/lawrence are the only multiple time pro bowlers on the roster and their 2 highest paid non-QBs. and somehow this D is struggling despite the back drop of poor opponent quality and leaguewide scoring down so much people are talking about rules to prevent 2 high safeties bc they are unfair for offenses. if only.
The offense has scored 24 points in two games, despite an improved OL and the addition of what appears to be a potential game-changing WR1. I'm not ready to call that a win just yet, looking at the offense holistically rather than just the parts that do appear to be improved (i.e., Are the RBs better? Are the TEs better? Is there enough OL depth to survive an entire season without a 5-alarm fire again? Is the WR position in general the sort of assortment that allows for the offense to operate the way that Daboll wants? Is the way that Daboll wants the offense to operate even any good? Etc, etc.)
jones was done after that game but before we knew that there was a glimmer of possibility i guess. if they'd been 6-5 when jones was healthy having just not blown the games vs wash/atl joe judge probably gets his year 3.
if they go 4-5 in the next 9 with a win over philly or dallas this year that would seem a minor miracle. and even that only gets to the bar of where joe judge was in week 12 of 2021.
Yep. A few times it felt like they may have stabilized that season. Beat Carolina to get to 2-5 and really could have won in KC on that Monday night game. Beat LV to get to 3-6. Beat Philly to get to 4-7.
Another similar twist is the QB situation behind Jones. NYG was stuck playing Glennon and Fromm. NYG criticized for not having anyone better than Lock and DeVito this year.
At 4-7 that year I did not think Judge was getting fired. I'm sure Judge was upset he got canned considering he was stuck paying Glennon and Fromm down the stretch.
Daboll will need a moment where it feels like he stabilized the season. I think it has to come Sunday because I just hate that matchup against Dallas on a short week even with the OL playing better.
It's why I think a mid season firing is not out of the question. Imagine if NYG is 0-6 and Barkley is shredding the Shane Bowen defense for 125 yards and 3 TD's. Schoen and Daboll could very well be fired on the morning of 10/21. If you think it's crazy, it happened with LV last year.
Like someone said above - they aren't above criticism in the way they have played on the field.
This whole things to me sounds like the players already putting an excuse out there.
Not a good sign.
I think NFL seasons are super fragile. Early season success, especially for a team like the Giants who has middling talent (at best), is crucial. Guys start to make business decisions at 0-2 or 0-3, blame starts being allocated, etc.
It feels like it's all going to implode and the schedule is going to start getting tougher.
the fragile thing is exactly right - live shot of them week 2 deciding on kicker situation:
it can flip the other way quickly too, this place will be lit up 6 days from now if they are some how 2-2 myself included, but statistically the odds they end up there are easily in the +1000 range. that's where this regime is, they need to pull a rabbit out of a hat or else it's curtains. hoping for best but expecting the worst.
Quote:
but looking back at the 2021 schedule im reminded that in week 12 somehow joe judge/daniel jones beat nick siriani/jalen hurts to move to 4-7 while philly moved to 5-7. which was probably the high point of that season.
jones was done after that game but before we knew that there was a glimmer of possibility i guess. if they'd been 6-5 when jones was healthy having just not blown the games vs wash/atl joe judge probably gets his year 3.
if they go 4-5 in the next 9 with a win over philly or dallas this year that would seem a minor miracle. and even that only gets to the bar of where joe judge was in week 12 of 2021.
Yep. A few times it felt like they may have stabilized that season. Beat Carolina to get to 2-5 and really could have won in KC on that Monday night game. Beat LV to get to 3-6. Beat Philly to get to 4-7.
Another similar twist is the QB situation behind Jones. NYG was stuck playing Glennon and Fromm. NYG criticized for not having anyone better than Lock and DeVito this year.
At 4-7 that year I did not think Judge was getting fired. I'm sure Judge was upset he got canned considering he was stuck paying Glennon and Fromm down the stretch.
Daboll will need a moment where it feels like he stabilized the season. I think it has to come Sunday because I just hate that matchup against Dallas on a short week even with the OL playing better.
It's why I think a mid season firing is not out of the question. Imagine if NYG is 0-6 and Barkley is shredding the Shane Bowen defense for 125 yards and 3 TD's. Schoen and Daboll could very well be fired on the morning of 10/21. If you think it's crazy, it happened with LV last year.
id forgotten about that KC loss. ximines jump offsides on the love int is up there with our most disappointing losses in the last decade.
the big thing this year that's different is the looming presence of belichick, and all the interconnections of him and the giants org. daboll worked for him. bricillo worked for him. shane bowen came from his system (pees, vrabel).
there's no way mara isnt experiencing all the same ptsd we are. what we see on sundays he's living front row in person every day. if i were in his shoes there is no way id be able to resist calling belichick and giving him whatever he wanted to come in and figure it out.
Seriously. At what point do we consider banning discussion about anything this clown 'reports', going forward?
Fine line is good info vs. shit stirring.
I've said it before but it bears repeating... With what this team has had and endured over the first two seasons, Daboll has overachieved on any realistic expectations.
The only thing missing is their choice at QB. Mara would be wise to allow them another season to acquire that guy.
Okay, I'm actually with you on Daboll. He has overachieved with this roster.
And while I wanted them to lose every game after Halloween last year, he has shown good management keeping the team competitive with a putrid QB room.
The criticism about some of his in-game decisions are valid.
But I disagree that they don't have the QB of their choice. They re-committed to him on March 7th, 2023.