The vertical axis indicates the number of pressures that result in sacks. In this regard Jones is right around the league average.
But dear Lord, check out that horizontal axis, which indicates pressures caused by the QB. Jones is by himself, 1/1, way off in fucking There Be Dragons territory.
For the first time in over a decade we have a competent and capable offensive line. They pick up stunts and open holes. They play sound football. We have a talented group of WRs who are freaking FAST and get open. We have some of the most innovative and creative offensive minds in modern football who have a clear vision for driving the ball downfield.
And the entire thing is being orchestrated by a QB who is essentially sacking himself.
Reading the chart,league QB average looks like 5%; Jones 12.5%, so there's a 7.5% delta over average -- and Jones has over twice the league average of self-inflicted pressure wounds though 2 games!!! Holy fucking shit!!!!
Oh, wait. Translated into numbers:
So thus far this season, assuming accuracy of this subjective stat, Jones has caused 12.5% of 21 pressure dropbacks; e.g. a total of 2.5 self-inflicted pressures. And that 2.5 is, through 2 games, 7.5% of 21 = 1.5 pressures worse than the average QB.
So on 70 dropbacks so far, Jones has caused somewhere between 1 and 2 more pressures than league average.
Yes, lets weep. But not the for QB. For the deterioration of the education system. Cause you're supposed to understand statistical significance before you can graduate high school.
Reading the chart,league QB average looks like 5%; Jones 12.5%, so there's a 7.5% delta over average -- and Jones has over twice the league average of self-inflicted pressure wounds though 2 games!!! Holy fucking shit!!!!
Oh, wait. Translated into numbers:
So thus far this season, assuming accuracy of this subjective stat, Jones has caused 12.5% of 21 pressure dropbacks; e.g. a total of 2.5 self-inflicted pressures. And that 2.5 is, through 2 games, 7.5% of 21 = 1.5 pressures worse than the average QB.
So on 70 dropbacks so far, Jones has caused somewhere between 1 and 2 more pressures than league average.
Yes, lets weep. But not the for QB. For the deterioration of the education system. Cause you're supposed to understand statistical significance before you can graduate high school.
BBI hates it when you start talking facts, HBart...
The o-line doesn’t give Jones enough time!
Here we are in year 6 and it’s been the same story for 6 years in the pros and 4 in college.
Baker Mayfield carved up this Washington defense like a Thanksgiving turkey. Here we are dancing in the streets over 180 yards and 18 points and quelle surprise blaming the o-line.
Don't bother answering.
I agree.
Conversely, last week, the common theme of his very few mistakes was pulling the trigger too fast, rather than letting routes develop.
And so?
"....Jones has caused somewhere between 1 and 2 more pressures than league average."
So call it one per game, but this chart refers to pressures that result in sacks.
Taking a sack typically means that you don't score a touchdown on that drive.
So this is essentially costing us one drive per game where we don't have a chance to score a touchdown, and that's only compared to League average teams, not good ones.
That one play per game probably cost us two or three wins over the course of a season.
Why do we struggle against average teams?
Why do we never beat good teams?
Why do we lose close games that we feel like we can win?
Why do we have a best case scenario glass ceiling somewhere around 24 points every week for years?
And why is a 6-year player all the way to the left on that graphic, surrounded by inexperienced quarterbacks and rookies.
Maybe. But that doesn't make a silly stat meaningful, nor trying to say otherwise any less dumb. If you're right, there will lots of shitty stats and results to gloat about. This isn't one of them.
Both things are true.
This year with average NFL OL play it's glaringly obvious.
Coronation does not equal consternation!
Both things are true.
This year with average NFL OL play it's glaringly obvious.
This ^
And that stat is the truest measure.
I had three of the five sacks in the Minn game directly on Jones. And he almost ran into two or three more but either escaped or got the ball off before being sacked.
Guess what. The Giants are going to face good to EXCELLENT defenses in the next six games. We should know at the end of the Dallas game if this trend continues. If it does, I don't expect Jones to be starting after that game.
Quote:
he only got sacked once against WSH but he ran himself into 3 or 4 of the 5 against Minnesota. how it evolves over the year is obviously something to keep an eye on, but the OL has looked the best it has in his time here and this is probably the single area where jones made the most improvement week 2 so there's hope.
I had three of the five sacks in the Minn game directly on Jones. And he almost ran into two or three more but either escaped or got the ball off before being sacked.
Yup. I'd concur that all the two and a half credited self-inflicted sacks came against Minnesota.
And?
Pressures - ( New Window )
I had three of the five sacks in the Minn game directly on Jones. And he almost ran into two or three more but either escaped or got the ball off before being sacked.
Yup. I'd concur that all the two and a half credited self-inflicted sacks came against Minnesota.
And?
And I'm agreeing with Eric's conclusion.
The chart doesn’t mean much across two games. That is accurate. But when you look at the chart for 2023 and 2024 you see a certain pattern emerge. Daniel Jones creates a lot of sacks all by himself, which is what many have been saying on this site for years now.
Two things can be true at once. The Giants offensive line has been really bad, and Daniel Jones has been really bad. Not at all mutually exclusive.
Andrew Thomas threw his hands up when Daniel jones ran into a sack 1st week
Everyone has had a coworker that fucks things up and makes everyone look bad
We have 6 years of watching his shitty post snap reads. Part of that is handling pressure. He doesn’t have a quick enough football mind. That he has shown after 6 years
So does mean for Jones, every time there’s pressure he gets sacked? Or is that what it’s saying about ol’ Cutlets? ‘Cause if you asked me which of the 2 caused their own pressure, I would have said Cutlets in a heartbeat, and that DJ was the one who couldn’t evade.
So thus far this season, assuming accuracy of this subjective stat, Jones has caused 12.5% of 21 pressure dropbacks; e.g. a total of 2.5 self-inflicted pressures. And that 2.5 is, through 2 games, 7.5% of 21 = 1.5 pressures worse than the average QB.
I'm on my phone, it's 12 am, and I'm not getting out of bed to find my reading glasses. But doesn't the X axis reflect the percentage a QB caused pressure on his total number of dropbacks, instead of indicating what percentage of pressures the QB was "responsible" for?
If you want to look at this rationally -- as in how much has Jone's really contributed to the sack problem based on this stat -- look at 2022, which had a nominally stable, mediocre-at-best but functional OL.
Whatever that number is, it's a good measure against the league for now, and for Jones improvement (or lack thereof) this season. That would be meaningful signal. 2023 is noise.
The o-line doesn’t give Jones enough time!
Here we are in year 6 and it’s been the same story for 6 years in the pros and 4 in college.
Baker Mayfield carved up this Washington defense like a Thanksgiving turkey. Here we are dancing in the streets over 180 yards and 18 points and quelle surprise blaming the o-line.
Do you sit at home an think of ways to make up shit?
Nobody has said anything this year about the line except positives and same with the WRs.
Reading the chart,league QB average looks like 5%; Jones 12.5%, so there's a 7.5% delta over average -- and Jones has over twice the league average of self-inflicted pressure wounds though 2 games!!! Holy fucking shit!!!!
Oh, wait. Translated into numbers:
So thus far this season, assuming accuracy of this subjective stat, Jones has caused 12.5% of 21 pressure dropbacks; e.g. a total of 2.5 self-inflicted pressures. And that 2.5 is, through 2 games, 7.5% of 21 = 1.5 pressures worse than the average QB.
So on 70 dropbacks so far, Jones has caused somewhere between 1 and 2 more pressures than league average.
Yes, lets weep. But not the for QB. For the deterioration of the education system. Cause you're supposed to understand statistical significance before you can graduate high school.
Saturday was a lot busier than I'd anticipated, I never plan on posting and not checking back in so was glad to see this generated some discussion.
Of course over 2 games the sample size is small, but as others pointed out (and honestly what I had planned on doing) was linking the 2023 numbers as well, which are pretty consistent.
So while weeping for the education system is something we should all be doing, I'm gonna stand on the idea that Daniel Jones is holding back the offense and will continue to do so. Did you wanna offer some evidence to refute that? Perhaps we just need another season or 2 to *really* get a sense of what he has to offer.
Posting this at 11AM, crossing my fingers and begging to be wrong, but what is more likely today: the Giants winning because of Jones, or the Giants losing because of Jones?
Here you go.
Quote:
If Jones is so heinous there will be oodles of terrible stats to point to.
Here you go.
Daniel Jones came 2 passes short of an all-time NFL dubious record of most pass attempts without a TD at 153 passes last week.
He is already 1 and 2 at least passes to TDs to start a season since the invention of the forward pass in 2021 and 2023. He had 2 Tds to 160 passes in 2023 and 2 Tds to 185 passes in 2021. He probably would have topped that last year if he didn’t get injured.