My “non-emotional” thoughts from yesterday’s game. As always, feel free to add your own, argue with mine, etc…
Overview:
Giants 21, Browns 15: You read that right, the other team had less points than we did…
The game started in the worst way I think any of us could have imagined. A fumble on the opening kick off followed by a long TD on the very next play. 11 seconds in the game and we’re down 0-7 to a team known for having a staunch defense that is even more stingy at home. A collective “here we go again” is felt by Giants fans everywhere at this moment in time. At least we don’t fumble the next kick off, but we did get three and outed… We get the ball back which is something we couldn’t do against Washington and then… Jones throws an interception. Wow, this is bad. But wait… what’s that? It’s a flag, roughing the passer, the interception is called back, and the Giants get their first “break” of the season!
From there the team proceeds to go on one of the best drives I can remember them having in years, 13 plays and 7:44 coming off the clock resulting in a Singletary TD. A few drives later we managed to top this with a 14 play 93-yard drive taking almost 7 minutes off the clock also resulting in a TD. We scored once more and went into half time up 21-7. Cleveland threatened a comeback in the 2nd half but couldn’t climb past 15 points. Giants improved to 1-2.
Offense:
1 – There’s going to be a similar theme in thought 1 of my defensive section and I apologize for the spoiler, but I want to talk about the philosophy before getting to any individual players or position groups. In my opinion the gameplan yesterday was one of the more aggressive ones Daboll has put together since the 2022 season. I’m not just talking about going for it on 4th down (which he did on the first TD drive) or the deep shots (we took a few), I’m talking about the willingness to open the playbook, try new plays and work to get our players in positions to succeed. In addition to this, our tempo was better, and we moved players around at the line of scrimmage at a higher rate. I want to see this offense going forward. There’s a time and place for 2 TE sets running the ball, I get that but spreading the defense out and attacking fared better for us. Stay with this!
2 – Wow is Nabers good… Nabers caught both our TD’s and accounted for about 1/3rd of our passing yards but more importantly made a couple of high-level catches that no other WR on our roster has the ability to. I look specifically at the sideline catch on the second TD drive: While Jones played a good game and I don’t want to hang a bad throw on him, no other WR on our roster catches that ball, as a matter of fact a few give up an INT on that play. Moving to the end of the drive, I don’t think anyone else on the roster catches the TD pass and gets their feet in. It’s been 3 weeks, small sample size, I get it, but be excited about this kid, he’s that good.
3 – I would not be shocked if when the PFF grades come in for our OL they aren’t glowing, but I still think they played well given the opponent. I’m going to start with the fact that Cleveland’s defensive line features the best defensive end in football in Myles Garrett. They’re also strong on the interior and have another very good edge rusher flanking him, this unit is the real deal. The Cleveland defense has also been notoriously stronger at home meaning that going against this line was a very, very tough task for our OL this week. Despite all of this, we still had the time we needed to operate our passing offense, didn’t get Jones killed and accomplished something a Giants offensive line hadn’t in years, which was not letting a strong opposing front 7 ruin our offensive gameplan by just plainly being more physical. Bricillo has been very good so far, I’m impressed.
Defense:
1 – As promised, I wanted to start by talking about the aggressiveness of the game plan. Through games 1 and 2 the plan seemed to be “get there with 4” and guess what? It really didn’t work. Yesterday this changed, players were being sent from all over the field, Watson (not exactly Peyton Manning) was confused and running all day. The net was 8 sacks with 9 different players getting in the stat sheet in that category. I’m not sure if this was an isolated game plan or a philosophical adjustment from Bowen, but I need to see more of it. Remember the past two seasons we’ve been acquiring talent to fit in Wink Martindale’s attacking scheme, and we have a good number of defenders that are more comfortable playing like this. I want to see this again on Thursday, Dallas looked much better against soft zones last night than they did when Baltimore attacked. We have our template.
2 – Throwing a negative in here, Banks needs to step up his game. While he hasn’t been horrible this year, he is our number 1 CB and giving up 2 TD’s in one on one coverage with Amari Cooper isn’t something he should be doing. This week he’s going to have a tougher assignment in Ceedee Lamb who also has a much better QB throwing him the ball, he outright needs to play better. The good news is that Banks isn’t exactly getting toasted, there have been quite a few times where he’s in position to make a play on the ball and just doesn’t do it. If you go back and watch the long TD to Cooper on offensive play 1 there was no separation, but Banks also never got his head around. The athletic ability is there, he just needs to clean some things up.
3 – I mentioned earlier I think Myles Garrett is the best defensive end in football and I stick by that, but who is the best overall defensive lineman? I’m very, very biased, but I still think it’s Dexter Lawrence. 3 Tackles, 2 sacks, 1 TFL and 4 QB hits from a nose tackle continuously seeing double and triple teams. Most importantly from yesterday, the rest of the defense found a way to capitalize on the attention Dex gets, as I said earlier due to half sacks 9 different players got on the stat sheet in that category, this is kind of a crazy stat. You hear stories of QB’s or RB’s buying expensive gifts for offensive linemen, at the end of the year KT, Burns and Ojulari (who’s playing much better for Bowen than he did Martindale) should pitch in and buy Dex a new car.
Coaching:
My biggest problem with the coaching staff this week is that they couldn’t put together a gameplan like this during weeks 1 and 2…
For the defense, I completely expected a slow start. It’s very rare that you see a defense under a new coordinator come out of the gate strong, it usually takes about a quarter of a season, and they don’t play their very best until about the halfway point. I’m hoping this week isn’t just an aberration and we come out with another aggressive game plan and attack Dallas. This goes for both sides of the ball, it’s time that we be the one bringing the fight to the division opponent and not the other way around.
Not wanting to start a special team’s section I’m throwing one small thing under the coaching section: I noticed during the Commander’s game that they seemed to “pick out” that kicking to Eric Gray was better than just kicking the ball out of the end zone as ½ the league does. I wasn’t sure if they saw something with how he carried the ball or just didn’t think he could get back to the 30. Either way, Cleveland very obviously also saw something with him and also targeted him, resulting in a turnover on play one.
Something to watch for, teams are clearly identifying him as a weak link.
Conclusion:
This week started with chatter about “losing the team” and talk about Bill Belichick taking over for Daboll in 2025 but ended by celebrating a win in a hostile opponent’s territory. This is the ebbs and flows of being a Giants fan. We’ll be optimistic right up until the snap of Thursday night’s game and then this win disappears from everyone’s mind, I’m sad we don’t have a full week to savor it. The good news is that Dallas hasn’t exactly looked like the Super Bowl contender many of them thought they could be coming into the year, they just lost a game against a physical opponent and may be reeling a little bit. We have an opportunity here… Dallas gave up 274 yards rushing yesterday (yes that’s correct) and had to deal with a physical Baltimore defense, they should be tired, they should be beat up.
Reiterating a message I said in the coaching section, we need to concentrate on bringing the fight to them. I also used the word “opportunity” for a reason, we have one here that can mean more than just getting another win. Let’s do it!
It likely was the plan week 1 too, they just didn’t execute
You’re not going to run over that D at home. Battling them to a stalemate was a great job, and facilitated the win.
That’s the reason we can’t beat those guys - they humiliate us up front.
Also, as for Gray, he’s clearly shown to be a liability on kickoffs (and punts last year) and doesn’t offer much as a RB. I’d like to see more Tracy going forward.
What a great game by the defense! I see I am not the only one who thought they substituted Wink's defense, lots of blites and man to man coverage, for Bowen's bend don't break. Great defense in the 4th quarter with a forced fumble and stopping 2 4th down plays. The old time Giants should be proud! And where has that version of Olujari been?
Great heads up play be Singletary eschewing the td to make sure the team had a 100% chance to win.
I agree. It bugs me when I hear announcers say shit like he's one of the better interior linemen in the league.
He's otherwordly. Mention him with Chris Jones if you like, but give him his props. They're a class of 2 (and Id rather have Dex).
Health permitting, this isn't one of the worst teams in the league. This team has the talent on both sides of the ball, and on the head sets to compete for a wild card.
Good game from Daniel and very similar to what he did against the Commanders where he took what was given to him and other than the called back INT, made no glaring mistakes. Yes there were some "misfires" as Sy' calls them, but not like in week 1.
I'd be remiss to mention that his pocket presence was significantly better than it was against the Vikings. He got the ball out quick and didn't have any of his "brain freeze" moments. If you're checking positive and negative games from him, this is a positive. He wasn't perfect, but he was good.
With that said, the good that comes from a win is that you can start to look for some good signs and project or hope for those good signs to lead to more wins. The Giants block well and generate disruption in the front 7. They have a dominant force at WR. None of this means the team will win 10 games. The Giants need to play better and their strengths need to step up against better teams and be as consistent as other good teams are.
Yesterday allowed the Giants to build off something rather than be on a death watch. If you want better draft positioning I suggest you wait until the season is all but cooked because right now the season is alive.
Health permitting, this isn't one of the worst teams in the league. This team has the talent on both sides of the ball, and on the head sets to compete for a wild card.
I agree. For the 2nd week in a row I saw an offense and defense that showed a good number of talented players. Guys stand out.
Just keep it up. Gotta earn it. Gotta beat the good teams.
Yes I know, he does appear to be a Giant wearing a permanent "Kick Me" sign.
Indeed. Last time they stepped on the field with them they allowed 650 yards of offense and 32 first downs. (!) They've allowed nearly 100 points in the last 2 games (!) while not looking like they belong in the same league.
This isn't, exactly, must-win (though it's close, as all division games are). But it is must play at or above Dallas's level.
It likely was the plan week 1 too, they just didn’t execute
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Hit the open guy underneath and let the WRs do the work, they just added the Nabers non passing play wrinkles.
It likely was the plan week 1 too, they just didn’t execute
I think your right on the offensive side but the defensive side was a whole different strategy. They were aggressive. As I said on another thread I think Bowen before was trying to put a square peg in a round hole . Yesterday was different. As Bitey said slot of these guys were brought in for Winks system. Yesterday to me was a perfect blend and the defense was enjoying it.
I think it probably has to do with the guys having to get acclimated on defense before letting it loose.
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Dallas has a lot of issues. Their run defense stinks, they have two rookies on the o-line with pass protection issues, their running game is bad. They are looking like a paper tiger at this point.
Correct, and we have them at home. If we are good we should be able to take care of business. Plus frankly I still have whip marks on my back from the opener last season. IF we lost again in that fashion we will tank.
Actually, you could say 31 points.
Singletary held up…7
Missed FG….3
Very much agree with this - Cooper is a beast, much like AJ Brown. Strong, great balance and hands, very underrated. Ceedee is quicker, but he won’t ‘outphysical’ Banks like a Cooper or Brown or DJ Metcalf. The guy I’m more worried about is Ferguson - Tight ends kill the Giants and Dak will take advantage.
Nice writeup…it’s early, watch Tracy’s role increae; he did some nice things in the pass game and I think he’s going to be more involved as the season progresses.
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I think we are seeing peak Jones. Third year in the system, team has a no-questions asked number one receiver, team was committed to running the ball, and the pass protection was pretty good. And the outcome was 21 points.
Actually, you could say 31 points.
Singletary held up…7
Missed FG….3
IF you think this offense can't do better than 21 pts I don't know what games your watching. They literally left 14 pts on the field the last 2 games and that's without even accounting for some near misses in the deep passing game.
But ok, this is "peak" jones.
Singletary could have scored but he chose to give himself up so that we were guaranteed the win. That is 7 points left on the board there.
You think teams going for it on 4th down and giving us the ball on their own side is normal or where there extenuating circumstances that led to that?
The missed FG occurrd with similar circumstances but worse. They handed us the ball in FG range by getting stopped on 4th down
Yet the Giants offense went BACKWARDS and lost yards and thereby made it a more difficult kick
Now you want to give credit to the offense for points lost on a drive they LOST yards on.
Come on man
Part of this is that the Giants have three guys you have to worry about blocking before you even think about Azeez now.
Offensively:
I think DJ HAS to hit on a few of these deep shots...like Thursday night. Now that DJ knows he can get the time needed to take a deep shot - he's got to make it count. So far he overthrows them every time which to me means he's still a little gun shy to give up that INT.
Also, I think Daboll's play calling in the red zone has been very good, even if that douchebag J. Vilma doesn't appreciate his creativity. Last week was a bit odd, but the days of the NYG always seemingly settling for three are over - I hope.
Defensively: I appreciate Bowen adjusting this game plan and showing that, in the NFL, you have to be multiple. Saying that reminds me of Joe Judge who was always using that term, unfortunately, his multiple was from effective defensive formations and calls from 2001. Bowen has given Dallas a lot to think about as they prepare for the NYG on a short week. The NYG know what Zimmer and Mike M. are gonna run.
Offensively:
I think DJ HAS to hit on a few of these deep shots...like Thursday night. Now that DJ knows he can get the time needed to take a deep shot - he's got to make it count. So far he overthrows them every time which to me means he's still a little gun shy to give up that INT.
We all want to see that connection, but it still has a positive impact on the game. It keeps the safeties from creeping too close to the line of scrimmage.
When you never throw deep and have no threat downfield, then the shorter completions become even more difficult.
Last week he would have had a real nice long completion and the ball was where it needed to be. However, 10 yards before the ball arrived there was a lot of hand checking between the WR/CB which slowed it down just enough to where the ball appeared to have been overthrown.
Still, he has missed a few by a great margin
Only thing that matters is they won and Jones and the offense looked better than they did in week 1 and week 2. If they lay an egg on TNF none of this matters. If they play well and win shit starts to get very interesting.
Actually, you could say 31 points.
Singletary held up…7
Missed FG….3
IF you think this offense can't do better than 21 pts I don't know what games your watching. They literally left 14 pts on the field the last 2 games and that's without even accounting for some near misses in the deep passing game.
But ok, this is "peak" jones.
Game-to-game, the Giants can certainly score more than 21 points. And they can certainly score less.
Last year the Bengals averaged 21.5 points per game, and were dead middle in the league. That is where I expect the Giants to top out in 2024.
Put it this way, do you expect the Giants to be a top 10 offense?
Browns were worse than I expected but getting a win on the road especially considering how they started is a great.
Daboll doesn't escape not being replaced from this game. He was sitting at 0-2 and graded out very poorly in the two first games. Expectations should be very high for a 3rd year HC.
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has improved from years prior on offense and defense.
Offensively:
I think DJ HAS to hit on a few of these deep shots...like Thursday night. Now that DJ knows he can get the time needed to take a deep shot - he's got to make it count. So far he overthrows them every time which to me means he's still a little gun shy to give up that INT.
We all want to see that connection, but it still has a positive impact on the game. It keeps the safeties from creeping too close to the line of scrimmage.
When you never throw deep and have no threat downfield, then the shorter completions become even more difficult.
Last week he would have had a real nice long completion and the ball was where it needed to be. However, 10 yards before the ball arrived there was a lot of hand checking between the WR/CB which slowed it down just enough to where the ball appeared to have been overthrown.
Still, he has missed a few by a great margin
Oh - I think it's coming for sure...and the shots themselves are certainly helping...but when they start connecting, the offense has the potential to be the best NYG offense we have seen in years.
History?
Are you including or excluding guys like Aaron Donald, Warren Sapp, Cortez Kennedy, John Randall, Joe Greene?
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Needs to be had about Dex being the best Nose Tackle in NFL history. The things he's doing from that position are unreal.
History?
Are you including or excluding guys like Aaron Donald, Warren Sapp, Cortez Kennedy, John Randall, Joe Greene?
I'm too young for Greene but the rest of the guys were DT's. Dexter is a Nose Tackle. Different responsibilities.
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I think we are seeing peak Jones. Third year in the system, team has a no-questions asked number one receiver, team was committed to running the ball, and the pass protection was pretty good. And the outcome was 21 points.
Actually, you could say 31 points.
Singletary held up…7
Missed FG….3
IF you think this offense can't do better than 21 pts I don't know what games your watching. They literally left 14 pts on the field the last 2 games and that's without even accounting for some near misses in the deep passing game.
But ok, this is "peak" jones.
Game-to-game, the Giants can certainly score more than 21 points. And they can certainly score less.
Last year the Bengals averaged 21.5 points per game, and were dead middle in the league. That is where I expect the Giants to top out in 2024.
Put it this way, do you expect the Giants to be a top 10 offense?
Expect? No I do't expect that at all. But after seeing the OL block adequately and seeing Nabers come out as a ready made star, maybe I am opening up to anything. But no, gun to head I would hope for 400 pts scored. At this moment I would probably expect 380 or so.
This thursday and the next few weeks will tell us a lot.
Cleveland has a good defense all around. They had a good showing pass wise in the first half. Some good screen play for once.