I just was recently watching the GFII with my teenager son and after the movie we were talking about it. A couple of things, why does Michael kill Fredo? Michael realizes that Fredo knew it was not a hit, he even says so to Tom Hagen. Yes, he betrayed Michael, but he did not intend to do him harm. Also, once Roth and Pentagali were dead and Fredo was ex-communicated from the family there was no reason to kill Fredo-he was not a threat. I just don't find it plausible that Michael, who joined the business to protect his family, would kill the son of his mother and father. He even says don't kill her while my mom is alive (which cuts both ways I guess in that he doesn't want his mom to be in pain but at the same time, does he think it makes it better for anyone that he killed her son when she was dead?). I know they had to do it as a plot device to show how evil Michael had become, but it just did not seem right or plausible.
Now, if you wanted to show how far Michael had fallen as a plot device--why not kill Kay? Forgetting the abortion aspect of it (meaning I am not here to debate abortion and whether it is killing or not), she knew she had a perfectly healthy child and it was far along enough in those days to know it was a boy, which had to be pretty far along, and she had the pregnancy terminated to deny Michael a son. That seems a lot more unforgivable then Fredo being played as a dupe.
but the wife who terminated her pregnancy of a healthy child that she knew was a son so that "this must all end" did not call for revenge?
Killing Kay makes him a vengeful monster, which is not what they were going for.
The story is that he loses himself in the roll of Godfather to the point that anyone who betrays the Family is wiped out. Kay did not betray the Family, she betrayed Michael personally.
Michael realized Tessio betrayed him when he determined the "summit" was actually going to be a hit on him. Allowing Tessio to live after that would be seen by the other participants as an act of weakness, threatening Michael's power, and he was taken out. No free pass for "old time's sake."
Same thing with Carlo and Sonny. Michael offers him an "out" to induce him into the car, but there was no way Carlo woas going to live. Doing so, even in spite of the relationships Michael cites, would demonstrate weakness.
Fredo's dalliance with Moe Greene in Las Vegas resulted in an embarrassing moment for Michael, but at the time, Fredo was not a true threat to Michael's power. Moe Greene was put on his heels by Michael and eventually got his. So when Fredo flippantly made the remark in Vegas, leading to the famous "don't ever take sides" line, some view that as Fredo's one warning.
I disagree...once it became clear that Fredo at least in part, or unwittingly enabled the assassins to attempt a hit on Michael inside the compound, that was a direct threat to Michael's power. That someone could get so close to him and take a shot demonstrates weakness, which is essentially a death warrant. In Michael's mind, that transgression is not only unforgivable, but the traitor has to be eliminated, regardless of who it is, no warning or free pass.
Turning to Kay, when she revealed the abortion, Michael's way of eliminating the threat was to kill his marriage by divorcing Kay and throwing her out of his circle. It's a different kind of execution, but equally cold-hearted. No warning shot.
Fredo tipped off that hit on Roth, which explains how the guard showed up and shot Michael’s bodyguard as he was about to kill Roth. That proved that Fredo was still a traitor and a danger.
The risk is outlined in what Fredo said when trying to explain it to Michael. "I didn't know it would be a hit" and "There was something in it for me. I'm your big brother and I was stepped over."
Fredo was ambitious and stupid, which would continue to be a threat to Michael. He didn't know when he was being used and he didn't understand the rules of the game. Killing him was the only way to ensure there was no further betrayal (in Michael's mind).
Killing Kay makes him a vengeful monster, which is not what they were going for.
The story is that he loses himself in the roll of Godfather to the point that anyone who betrays the Family is wiped out. Kay did not betray the Family, she betrayed Michael personally.
+1, good post.
Also, his children would presumably be devastated by the death of their mother and he wouldn't want to do that.
Fredo tipped off that hit on Roth, which explains how the guard showed up and shot Michael’s bodyguard as he was about to kill Roth. That proved that Fredo was still a traitor and a danger.
I thought the guards of the revolution killed Michael’s bodyguard when they took over the hospital.
All very interesting answers btw.
In reading more up on this in the Internet. Puzo was very much against this and only agreed to it when Copolla suggested that they add nobody touches him until my mother does. But if he is a threat isn’t he a threat when the mother is alive?
Also, his children would presumably be devastated by the death of their mother and he wouldn't want to do that.
What about Connie, she practically begged for Michael to forgive Fredo and Michael at least outwardly and momentarily did so (I know to get him closer).
I think the biggest tell that a lot of people are right that he did it for business is the look he Al Neri and Michael exchange when Michael forgives him as like Al is the reminder that this is not about your brother this is about a traitor who put all of us at risk. To forgive Fredo, would be to let down people like Al who swear their loyalty
Quote:
If he killed Kay it would be for purely personal, not business, reasons. He can justify Fredo to himself because it's business related.
Also, his children would presumably be devastated by the death of their mother and he wouldn't want to do that.
What about Connie, she practically begged for Michael to forgive Fredo and Michael at least outwardly and momentarily did so (I know to get him closer).
I think the biggest tell that a lot of people are right that he did it for business is the look he Al Neri and Michael exchange when Michael forgives him as like Al is the reminder that this is not about your brother this is about a traitor who put all of us at risk. To forgive Fredo, would be to let down people like Al who swear their loyalty
I read the look with Al Neri differently. I saw Al thinking "this is hard to watch knowing what I have to do" and Michael looking at Al like "My mother is dead. It's time to take him out."
But Fredo as a brother betrayed Michael, mostly because he was stupid but also jealous. He went against the family. Michael would never let that slide.
This
But Fredo as a brother betrayed Michael, mostly because he was stupid but also jealous. He went against the family. Michael would never let that slide.
This makes no sense to me. If he just became a cartoon tough guy who no longer cares about Fredo, his character arc in GFIII makes no sense. Did he wake up one day and just realize he did?
Quote:
subsequent to the plot against Michael. In Cuba, Michael confided to Fredo that “I’ve already made my move. Hymen Roth won’t see the New Year.”
Fredo tipped off that hit on Roth, which explains how the guard showed up and shot Michael’s bodyguard as he was about to kill Roth. That proved that Fredo was still a traitor and a danger.
I thought the guards of the revolution killed Michael’s bodyguard when they took over the hospital.
All very interesting answers btw.
In reading more up on this in the Internet. Puzo was very much against this and only agreed to it when Copolla suggested that they add nobody touches him until my mother does. But if he is a threat isn’t he a threat when the mother is alive?
They march, armed, directly quickly and directly into Roth’s room. They were tipped off.
This makes no sense to me. If he just became a cartoon tough guy who no longer cares about Fredo, his character arc in GFIII makes no sense. Did he wake up one day and just realize he did?
Mike from Ohio,
Nobody respected Fredo. People either used him or tolerated him because he was or could be close to Michael. He'd be of no use to anyone if Michael cut him out. He was no threat going forward.
Quote:
This makes no sense to me. If he just became a cartoon tough guy who no longer cares about Fredo, his character arc in GFIII makes no sense. Did he wake up one day and just realize he did?
Mike from Ohio,
Nobody respected Fredo. People either used him or tolerated him because he was or could be close to Michael. He'd be of no use to anyone if Michael cut him out. He was no threat going forward.
Agree to disagree. Michael can ignore and cut out Fredo for the rest of his life. But Fredo is still talking to Connie, he is still talking to Tom. He is not involved in business secrets, but he is also not stranded on an island somewhere seeing things like an outsider.
If Michael says Fredo's out, he's out.
And Connie isn't involved in anything.
So Fredo was no threat.