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A few random observations from last night's game

M.S. : 9/27/2024 7:05 am
(1) Sure seems like Mike McCarthy out-coached Brian Daboll with the former throwing all his resources into shoring up his run defense and the latter not fully adjusting to that reality. Daboll called 24 rushes (including several predictable ones on first down) and all he did was slam his head into a wall time and time again (1.1 yards per carry.)

(2) Statistics are for losers, and you need look no further than Daniel Jones' completion percentage (which was compromised by at least 3-4 dropped passes.) But like the Cleveland game, he can't throw the ball downfield with any accuracy. Which is too bad. The guy worked like crazy to rehabilitate a serious knee injury; there is testimony that he is practically the first guy in the gym, and he is a dedicated off-season work-out warrior; and from afar he sure seems to be a decent, likable young man. But his career with the Giants is over and it's only a matter of time when Mara gives Joe Schoen/Brian Daboll the green-light to bench him permanently. That will depend on how many more losses the Giants accrue in the first half of the season.

(3) They couldn't run block last night at all, but when was the last time you saw a Giants offensive line provide such a fantastic pocket for Daniel Jones -- especially against Dallas? The Giants lost this game for several reasons. But not from this reconstructed O-line.

(4) The Giants are in a decade's long wasteland of Tight Ends, which is such a critical piece for successful offenses around the league. Maybe Theo Johnson will find his groove as the season progresses, but right now catching one pass for 6 yards ain't gonna cut it. Cowboys' Jake Ferguson had 7 receptions (49 yards) and consistently put his team into reasonable distance/down situations.

(5) With the exception of the CeeDee Lamb TD (which was huge), Deonte Banks usually stayed very close to his man. That's the good news. The bad news is that he looks like a bad-to-mediocre ball athlete and he allowed receptions in very tight quarters.

(6) Is it possible that Daniel Bellinger was the first to grab a face mask and the refs simply missed the blatant face mask against him? That's the only way I can explain one of the strangest calls I've seen in quite a long time. That was a net 30-yard play in Dallas territory. And in a game like this, that was huge.
On point 2 ...  
FStubbs : 9/27/2024 7:09 am : link
... Mara potentially being the one to make that call is the larger problem with this team.
Point 6  
knowledgetimmons : 9/27/2024 7:13 am : link
I just rewatched the play, bellinger didn’t touch his facemask, or anyone’s for that matter. It was an absolute sham call.
Throw the ball into the end zone  
ThomasG : 9/27/2024 7:14 am : link
is my random observation.

RE: On point 2 ...  
M.S. : 9/27/2024 7:15 am : link
In comment 16626990 FStubbs said:
Quote:
... Mara potentially being the one to make that call is the larger problem with this team.

It is just a matter of time. Undoubtedly, Mara will not wave the white flag with so much of the season left, but eventually he will relent and that will be the end of Daniel Jones' career with the Giants.
RE: Point 6  
M.S. : 9/27/2024 7:16 am : link
In comment 16626993 knowledgetimmons said:
Quote:
I just rewatched the play, bellinger didn’t touch his facemask, or anyone’s for that matter. It was an absolute sham call.

Then I'm surprised the NFL office did not call into the game and set things straight right there and then.
#4 hasn't been talked about much yet this year  
Blue Baas : 9/27/2024 7:18 am : link
I'm sure everyone is of course hoping that the switch gets flipped for Theo, but if it doesn't then TE is a big offseason need. Maybe not a top tier priority, not all good teams have a lights out out TE or a scheme that requires one, but it is officially another roster hole and has been so far this year.
RE: Throw the ball into the end zone  
M.S. : 9/27/2024 7:21 am : link
In comment 16626995 ThomasG said:
Quote:
is my random observation.

I am as mystified as you about this (and I am still seething). I don't know if the blame should go to Daboll or Daniel Jones, but one of them is the guilty party. Unless we just want to write it off on a fantastic Dallas defense!?!
RE: RE: Throw the ball into the end zone  
ThomasG : 9/27/2024 7:24 am : link
In comment 16627007 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16626995 ThomasG said:


Quote:


is my random observation.



I am as mystified as you about this (and I am still seething). I don't know if the blame should go to Daboll or Daniel Jones, but one of them is the guilty party. Unless we just want to write it off on a fantastic Dallas defense!?!


Jones is the guilty party because he is near incapable of passing downfield and taking shots in the end zone.

Daboll is absolutely out of his mind to keep putting this guy out there. Just digging his own grave.
RE: #4 hasn't been talked about much yet this year  
M.S. : 9/27/2024 7:28 am : link
In comment 16627002 Blue Baas said:
Quote:
I'm sure everyone is of course hoping that the switch gets flipped for Theo, but if it doesn't then TE is a big offseason need. Maybe not a top tier priority, not all good teams have a lights out out TE or a scheme that requires one, but it is officially another roster hole and has been so far this year.

I don't love piling on Daniel Jones, but maybe he is part of the problem? Does he have a problem going with his second or third read? Or is Daboll to blame for not designing specific TE plays? I wish I knew because this is hurting the offense.
RE: RE: RE: Throw the ball into the end zone  
M.S. : 9/27/2024 7:31 am : link
In comment 16627010 ThomasG said:
Quote:
In comment 16627007 M.S. said:


Quote:


In comment 16626995 ThomasG said:


Quote:


is my random observation.



I am as mystified as you about this (and I am still seething). I don't know if the blame should go to Daboll or Daniel Jones, but one of them is the guilty party. Unless we just want to write it off on a fantastic Dallas defense!?!



Jones is the guilty party because he is near incapable of passing downfield and taking shots in the end zone.

Daboll is absolutely out of his mind to keep putting this guy out there. Just digging his own grave.

My guess is that Jones does not get benched until Mara signs off on that.
RE: On point 2 ...  
4xchamps : 9/27/2024 7:34 am : link
In comment 16626990 FStubbs said:
Quote:
... Mara potentially being the one to make that call is the larger problem with this team.


Same old Mara Bull$hit without a shred of evidence...

RE: RE: Point 6  
4xchamps : 9/27/2024 7:35 am : link
In comment 16626998 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16626993 knowledgetimmons said:


Quote:


I just rewatched the play, bellinger didn’t touch his facemask, or anyone’s for that matter. It was an absolute sham call.


Then I'm surprised the NFL office did not call into the game and set things straight right there and then.


Penalties are not subject to being overturned by the NFL office...
Did Jones play horrible last night?  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2024 7:36 am : link
absolutely not but when you have a QB that has no threat to throw it deep, your offense is going to be limited, doesmt matter who is calling the plays or who is on the field with him..

Look at the free play, Diggs lets Slayton get deep because hebhas no worry of Jones..

If you cant hit deep shots it makes it a lot easier on the opposing team because they can sit on your short routes and you are constantly having to try to score in the redzone where everything tightens up
1.1  
Ron Johnson : 9/27/2024 7:37 am : link
Disgraceful
I’d throw in  
mittenedman : 9/27/2024 7:51 am : link
Dexter Lawrence and Brian Burns.

As Bowen said recently, you need your stars to play like stars every week. We kind of needed big games from these 2 on prime time vs our rival and they got manhandled.

Burns can’t get some pressure vs Steele and Guyton? He’s been outplayed by Ojulari this year.
The free play was absurd  
Mike from Ohio : 9/27/2024 7:55 am : link
Diggs looked like he stopped running with Slayton because he knew Jones could not throw the ball that far and he was right. The game gets much easier for the secondary when you realize the field is never more than 20 yards deep.
As I posted yesterday teams playing the Giants  
kelly : 9/27/2024 7:56 am : link
Are going to stack the line. Double Nabers and make Jones beat you throwing the ball.

RE: I’d throw in  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2024 7:57 am : link
In comment 16627056 mittenedman said:
Quote:
Dexter Lawrence and Brian Burns.

As Bowen said recently, you need your stars to play like stars every week. We kind of needed big games from these 2 on prime time vs our rival and they got manhandled.

Burns can’t get some pressure vs Steele and Guyton? He’s been outplayed by Ojulari this year.


You realize they are both being doubled and chipped thats ehy Thibs had a big game, he gets the 1 on 1 wifh the rookie while Burns and Lawrence have been eating blocks and chips
RE: The free play was absurd  
rsjem1979 : 9/27/2024 8:00 am : link
In comment 16627064 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
Diggs looked like he stopped running with Slayton because he knew Jones could not throw the ball that far and he was right. The game gets much easier for the secondary when you realize the field is never more than 20 yards deep.


Not that his throws to the left of the field are great, but his attempts to the right are awful.

The throw to Slayton on the free play was high school level.

The short 3rd down throw behind Nabers with nobody in front of him for 10 yards was atrocious.

And yet we have people killing the WRs this mornig. How about Jones make life easy for that group once in his life.

Nah, not for $47 million.
RE: RE: The free play was absurd  
Mike from Ohio : 9/27/2024 8:12 am : link
In comment 16627071 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 16627064 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


Diggs looked like he stopped running with Slayton because he knew Jones could not throw the ball that far and he was right. The game gets much easier for the secondary when you realize the field is never more than 20 yards deep.



Not that his throws to the left of the field are great, but his attempts to the right are awful.

The throw to Slayton on the free play was high school level.

The short 3rd down throw behind Nabers with nobody in front of him for 10 yards was atrocious.

And yet we have people killing the WRs this mornig. How about Jones make life easy for that group once in his life.

Nah, not for $47 million.


Agree. I keep seeing his completion % being stated like he was carving up Dallas’ defense and the only incompletions were drops. He completed the passes Dallas gave them. It was clear that they knew if they made the Giants have to go down the field in 5 yard chunks they would falter at some point and they did.

It was clear that the plan was to make Jones throw the ball a bunch and wait for the offense to stop itself. That worked really well for them.
2  
TheKingLek : 9/27/2024 8:20 am : link
Jones with time, as we know that at his best he can manage a game which was basically this game, but at his best will never be more than that. However i thought once upon a time he actually could throw a deep ball, what happened?

He certainly can't any more as was evident on the completion to Malik in the first (as all game) where Jones should have had him in stride instead of Malik having to stop and almost go back for it. Jones had more than enough time and space to make that throw properly and shold have made a better throw.
I miss the days  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/27/2024 8:20 am : link
when the Giants were feared as a running team with the RB's. Eli under center. PA, plant foot and ball out. Deep connection on a post pattern. I remember a couple times opening Dallas games this way.
RE: Throw the ball into the end zone  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/27/2024 8:39 am : link
In comment 16626995 ThomasG said:
Quote:
is my random observation.


...or past the sticks on third down...
TEs...'til I'm blue in the face  
ColHowPepper : 9/27/2024 8:44 am : link
Quote:
(4) The Giants are in a decade's long wasteland of Tight Ends, which is such a critical piece for successful offenses around the league. Maybe Theo Johnson will find his groove as the season progresses, but right now catching one pass for 6 yards ain't gonna cut it. Cowboys' Jake Ferguson had 7 receptions (49 yards) and consistently put his team into reasonable distance/down situations.

Ferguson was drafted 17 picks AFTER Bellinger.
Erick All (did you watch him this w/e?) drafted 7 picks AFTER Johnson, who looks like a clumsy slug next to All's athleticism, ability to block, get downfield, and hands.
That is all.
RE: RE: The free play was absurd  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/27/2024 8:44 am : link
In comment 16627071 rsjem1979 said:
Quote:
In comment 16627064 Mike from Ohio said:


Quote:


Diggs looked like he stopped running with Slayton because he knew Jones could not throw the ball that far and he was right. The game gets much easier for the secondary when you realize the field is never more than 20 yards deep.



Not that his throws to the left of the field are great, but his attempts to the right are awful.

The throw to Slayton on the free play was high school level.

The short 3rd down throw behind Nabers with nobody in front of him for 10 yards was atrocious.

And yet we have people killing the WRs this mornig. How about Jones make life easy for that group once in his life.

Nah, not for $47 million.


Add to this his late throws... The WRs were consistently open at the snap, sometimes beating there guy by several yards, but Jones is so late to throw and his passes so slow that by the time the ball gets to the guy his man catches up and at least one safety is there in coverage too.

That, or the WR has to literally stop moving for Jones to see that he is open.
Re: McCarthy has no fear of NYG  
bluefin : 9/27/2024 8:47 am : link
It’s as if DAL feels they’re the Globetrotters and NYG the Washington Generals - McCarthy threw his whole D at stopping the run, even with a banged up scrub secondary, because he doesn’t fear losing. It’s as if Dallas knows that NYG will fail to win no matter what, so they play loose and fearlessly.

You’ll see DAL look bad vs. other teams, but they always look sharp against NYG because they have no doubt about the outcome.
RE: 2  
M.S. : 9/27/2024 9:24 am : link
In comment 16627099 TheKingLek said:
Quote:
Jones with time, as we know that at his best he can manage a game which was basically this game, but at his best will never be more than that. However i thought once upon a time he actually could throw a deep ball, what happened?

He certainly can't any more as was evident on the completion to Malik in the first (as all game) where Jones should have had him in stride instead of Malik having to stop and almost go back for it. Jones had more than enough time and space to make that throw properly and shold have made a better throw.

Yea, there was definitely a reason Golden Tate named him Danny Dimes -- he was dropping it in the bucket on a fairly consistent basis his first two seasons. My guess is injuries and general wear & tear have taken its toll. But it's kinda funny... I think he was way over-shooting his WRs in his one exhibition game and against Minny, but now he's way under-throwing against Cleveland/Dallas. Maybe the game is just become too complex for him and/or he is really feeling the pressure of a fan base that wants him gone. Unfortunately, it can happen this way. The pressure just becomes too much.
Daboll not adjusting to what Dallas was doing with their run defense  
Metnut : 9/27/2024 9:27 am : link
cost the Giants too many downs with no positive result. Not something the Giants can really afford when you have a QB who can't throw deep balls with any accuracy. A good coach can adjust his gameplan when the situation dictates but Daboll kept running into 8 man fronts 80% of the time on first down. Awful.
RE: Daboll not adjusting to what Dallas was doing with their run defense  
M.S. : 9/27/2024 9:32 am : link
In comment 16627287 Metnut said:
Quote:
cost the Giants too many downs with no positive result. Not something the Giants can really afford when you have a QB who can't throw deep balls with any accuracy. A good coach can adjust his gameplan when the situation dictates but Daboll kept running into 8 man fronts 80% of the time on first down. Awful.

Very awful, indeed.
A few thoughts  
Matt M. : 9/27/2024 9:34 am : link
As for #3 - Agreed. And this group actually executes all different types of screens nicely for the first time in years. Part is an upgrade in talent at 3 of the positions. And a perhaps bigger part is Bricillo. He proved his worth in LV and is backing it up here. This is a well coached and prepared unit. They are fundamentally sound for the first time in years. And that is across the board. Even in the pre-season regardless of the 5 guys out there, they were always in the right position and picking up the right guy.

You can actually see Jones starting to realize he is protected.
Submitted too soon  
Matt M. : 9/27/2024 9:38 am : link
#6 - Doesn't seem that way. In the replays we saw, Bellinger's hands were nowhere near the helmet, let alone face mask. The announcers looked at it multiple times and said as much. It was just a terrible call.

What I found particularly odd is the official who threw the flag indicated it was on Dallas and the ref seems to confirm that with a hand gesture toward Dallas. McCarthy looked pissed and Daboll looked pleased. Then the ref makes the announcement and it's like WTF? I think most people assumed it was a mistake and would be corrected, but it wasn't. Equally as odd is that Bellinger didn't react, nor did Daboll. Both should have been pissed.
Lastly, Johnson ha taken a lot of criticism here  
Matt M. : 9/27/2024 9:39 am : link
I don't see him as the problem. I see the QB and the playcalling as the problem. He is on the field for most snaps. He seems to have the athleticism and speed to get open. He had a couple of drops so far. But, he seems capable. They do not call anything for him and they don't look for him. How have they not tested the seem once yet?
RE: Submitted too soon  
sb from NYT Forum : 9/27/2024 9:50 am : link
In comment 16627315 Matt M. said:
Quote:
#6 - Doesn't seem that way. In the replays we saw, Bellinger's hands were nowhere near the helmet, let alone face mask. The announcers looked at it multiple times and said as much. It was just a terrible call.

What I found particularly odd is the official who threw the flag indicated it was on Dallas and the ref seems to confirm that with a hand gesture toward Dallas. McCarthy looked pissed and Daboll looked pleased. Then the ref makes the announcement and it's like WTF? I think most people assumed it was a mistake and would be corrected, but it wasn't. Equally as odd is that Bellinger didn't react, nor did Daboll. Both should have been pissed.


I agree, if there was ever a time for Daboll to go berserk, this was it. Bellinger too.
RE: Submitted too soon  
M.S. : 9/27/2024 9:51 am : link
In comment 16627315 Matt M. said:
Quote:
#6 - Doesn't seem that way. In the replays we saw, Bellinger's hands were nowhere near the helmet, let alone face mask. The announcers looked at it multiple times and said as much. It was just a terrible call.

What I found particularly odd is the official who threw the flag indicated it was on Dallas and the ref seems to confirm that with a hand gesture toward Dallas. McCarthy looked pissed and Daboll looked pleased. Then the ref makes the announcement and it's like WTF? I think most people assumed it was a mistake and would be corrected, but it wasn't. Equally as odd is that Bellinger didn't react, nor did Daboll. Both should have been pissed.

Seen a lotta strange plays in over six decades of watching the Giants, and this one is way up there. Very crazy.
RE: Submitted too soon  
KeoweeFan : 9/27/2024 9:56 am : link
In comment 16627315 Matt M. said:
Quote:
#6 - Doesn't seem that way. In the replays we saw, Bellinger's hands were nowhere near the helmet, let alone face mask. The announcers looked at it multiple times and said as much. It was just a terrible call.

What I found particularly odd is the official who threw the flag indicated it was on Dallas and the ref seems to confirm that with a hand gesture toward Dallas. McCarthy looked pissed and Daboll looked pleased. Then the ref makes the announcement and it's like WTF? I think most people assumed it was a mistake and would be corrected, but it wasn't. Equally as odd is that Bellinger didn't react, nor did Daboll. Both should have been pissed.

Yes!
I noticed the same thing at the time when the official pointed behind his back at Dallas. Not only didn't Daboll and Ballinger react, but shouldn't the official who made the call have stepped in immediately (before the next snap) and corrected the obvious mistake (that should be a mark against both of them).
RE: RE: Submitted too soon  
M.S. : 9/27/2024 10:17 am : link
In comment 16627370 KeoweeFan said:
Quote:
In comment 16627315 Matt M. said:


Quote:


#6 - Doesn't seem that way. In the replays we saw, Bellinger's hands were nowhere near the helmet, let alone face mask. The announcers looked at it multiple times and said as much. It was just a terrible call.

What I found particularly odd is the official who threw the flag indicated it was on Dallas and the ref seems to confirm that with a hand gesture toward Dallas. McCarthy looked pissed and Daboll looked pleased. Then the ref makes the announcement and it's like WTF? I think most people assumed it was a mistake and would be corrected, but it wasn't. Equally as odd is that Bellinger didn't react, nor did Daboll. Both should have been pissed.


Yes!
I noticed the same thing at the time when the official pointed behind his back at Dallas. Not only didn't Daboll and Ballinger react, but shouldn't the official who made the call have stepped in immediately (before the next snap) and corrected the obvious mistake (that should be a mark against both of them).

Exactly. I'm wondering if the NFL is going to come out with a statement.
RE: RE: RE: Submitted too soon  
Matt M. : 9/27/2024 12:41 pm : link
In comment 16627435 M.S. said:
Quote:
In comment 16627370 KeoweeFan said:


Quote:


In comment 16627315 Matt M. said:


Quote:


#6 - Doesn't seem that way. In the replays we saw, Bellinger's hands were nowhere near the helmet, let alone face mask. The announcers looked at it multiple times and said as much. It was just a terrible call.

What I found particularly odd is the official who threw the flag indicated it was on Dallas and the ref seems to confirm that with a hand gesture toward Dallas. McCarthy looked pissed and Daboll looked pleased. Then the ref makes the announcement and it's like WTF? I think most people assumed it was a mistake and would be corrected, but it wasn't. Equally as odd is that Bellinger didn't react, nor did Daboll. Both should have been pissed.


Yes!
I noticed the same thing at the time when the official pointed behind his back at Dallas. Not only didn't Daboll and Ballinger react, but shouldn't the official who made the call have stepped in immediately (before the next snap) and corrected the obvious mistake (that should be a mark against both of them).


Exactly. I'm wondering if the NFL is going to come out with a statement.
Yes, but even if we get that statement, nothing is done with the officials and the bad call still stands, which potentially cost us 4 points.
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