I heard someone mention this last night and it's so true imo. Lambuth has also pointed this out, everyone who works with Jones in the building seems to really like him. It's probably a combination of things. As christian has said, "if you squint you can see a good QB."
My guess is all of these coaches think they can work with him. They like the size, athleticism and work ethic. He's probably genuinely a likable guy and has no distractions. The list goes on:
-David Cutcliffe
-Pat Shurmur
-Joe Judge
-Jason Garrett
-Brian Daboll
-Dave Gettleman
-Joe Schoen
This isn't about John Mara. All of these guys have said glowing things about Jones. And it really set in last night with Daboll talking about how proud he is of Daniel.
We see it with fans here too. "He's not the reason they lost." "He's efficient." He just needs a better OL (which he now has). He just needs a WR1 (which he now has). It's still the same result. 15 points per game. Now it's going to be, "but, the drops."
It's really amazing. Maybe it's ego. Coaches think they can make it work. Maybe that's how they arrived at signing Jones to a 4 year deal. I don't know. But, I fully believe Jones is going to get another coaching staff fired.
Brian Daboll has coached in several different organizations and the only good offense he orchestrated was with Josh Allen AND Stefon Diggs. When it was just Josh Allen (prior to Diggs acquisition), his numbers looked like Daniel Jones in 2022. I guess the horror show that’s been the Giants special teams in 2024 is someone else’s fault.
WTF is Cutcliffe’s name even on this list for?
Be nice to see a high production running game with the RB's QB under center more and then PA with more deep shots down the middle of the field.
More deep shots for the QB not to complete?
They can’t run because the QB stinks.
It continues to not be good enough and we finish say 6-11 and we get a top 6 pick.
Ownership and management convince themselves he should get another year because he proven he's fully back from his injuries and he played well enough to keep us in games. Maybe we even beat the Eagles once and he plays really well in that game and they keep pointing to that game as they analyze the season.
We use the pick to draft a dynamic tight end or maybe another corner and we go into next season with Jones and maybe a project QB we draft in the 5th round to appease the masses.
We then go 6-11 again in 2025 and everyone is fired and we start over.
Brian Daboll has coached in several different organizations and the only good offense he orchestrated was with Josh Allen AND Stefon Diggs. When it was just Josh Allen (prior to Diggs acquisition), his numbers looked like Daniel Jones in 2022. I guess the horror show that’s been the Giants special teams in 2024 is someone else’s fault.
WTF is Cutcliffe’s name even on this list for?
Well, I guess you can then say it's interesting that this succession of coaches and GMs all seem to love Jones, then get fired and fail in subsequent roles. Maybe it's revealing of their evaluation process.
It continues to not be good enough and we finish say 6-11 and we get a top 6 pick.
Ownership and management convince themselves he should get another year because he proven he's fully back from his injuries and he played well enough to keep us in games. Maybe we even beat the Eagles once and he plays really well in that game and they keep pointing to that game as they analyze the season.
We use the pick to draft a dynamic tight end or maybe another corner and we go into next season with Jones and maybe a project QB we draft in the 5th round to appease the masses.
We then go 6-11 again in 2025 and everyone is fired and we start over.
This is a very good and scary point. The Giants need to avoid the danger zone of about 6-8 wins. I think 5-12 is bad enough to fire everyone, but there is a threshold where everyone is back.
Think about this. Daniel Jones has not thrown a TD in MetLife stadium since the playoff clinching game against the Colts.
It continues to not be good enough and we finish say 6-11 and we get a top 6 pick.
Ownership and management convince themselves he should get another year because he proven he's fully back from his injuries and he played well enough to keep us in games. Maybe we even beat the Eagles once and he plays really well in that game and they keep pointing to that game as they analyze the season.
We use the pick to draft a dynamic tight end or maybe another corner and we go into next season with Jones and maybe a project QB we draft in the 5th round to appease the masses.
We then go 6-11 again in 2025 and everyone is fired and we start over.
I can guarantee Jones wont be the QB next year regardless of what happens
It continues to not be good enough and we finish say 6-11 and we get a top 6 pick.
Ownership and management convince themselves he should get another year because he proven he's fully back from his injuries and he played well enough to keep us in games. Maybe we even beat the Eagles once and he plays really well in that game and they keep pointing to that game as they analyze the season.
We use the pick to draft a dynamic tight end or maybe another corner and we go into next season with Jones and maybe a project QB we draft in the 5th round to appease the masses.
We then go 6-11 again in 2025 and everyone is fired and we start over.
This is an extremely plausible scenario.
It continues to not be good enough and we finish say 6-11 and we get a top 6 pick.
Ownership and management convince themselves he should get another year because he proven he's fully back from his injuries and he played well enough to keep us in games. Maybe we even beat the Eagles once and he plays really well in that game and they keep pointing to that game as they analyze the season.
We use the pick to draft a dynamic tight end or maybe another corner and we go into next season with Jones and maybe a project QB we draft in the 5th round to appease the masses.
We then go 6-11 again in 2025 and everyone is fired and we start over.
I still see this as tbe most likely outcome. It would be easy to move on from Jones if he was injured or terrible. After game 1, he hasn't been terrible. He's actually been pretty decent. I agree with the idea that his limitations but limitations on tbe offense. But within those limitations, he's actually been very good. Low bar? Yes. But it's always been a low bar for him.
Put another way, this version of Daniel Jones is very likely better than a rookie in 2025 and probably better than any journeyman QB we bring it. The Giants are always trying to win now. I didn't always think this, but this version of Jones probably does give us tbe best chance to win games than any of the alternatives.
The run game and the play action only work if the defense fears the deep play. They don’t. They can run all the play action you want, the defense will just defend it the same way they’ve done.
Sell out for the run and not worry about the deep ball because he can’t hit it.
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Jones continues playing at this level all year - just well enough that the so called pundits say Jones is playing well.
It continues to not be good enough and we finish say 6-11 and we get a top 6 pick.
Ownership and management convince themselves he should get another year because he proven he's fully back from his injuries and he played well enough to keep us in games. Maybe we even beat the Eagles once and he plays really well in that game and they keep pointing to that game as they analyze the season.
We use the pick to draft a dynamic tight end or maybe another corner and we go into next season with Jones and maybe a project QB we draft in the 5th round to appease the masses.
We then go 6-11 again in 2025 and everyone is fired and we start over.
I still see this as tbe most likely outcome. It would be easy to move on from Jones if he was injured or terrible. After game 1, he hasn't been terrible. He's actually been pretty decent. I agree with the idea that his limitations but limitations on tbe offense. But within those limitations, he's actually been very good. Low bar? Yes. But it's always been a low bar for him.
Put another way, this version of Daniel Jones is very likely better than a rookie in 2025 and probably better than any journeyman QB we bring it. The Giants are always trying to win now. I didn't always think this, but this version of Jones probably does give us tbe best chance to win games than any of the alternatives.
The choice is Jones or another QB and two quality starters at other positions. That's what it comes down to IMO.
So we spread it out, complete a lot of passes, and get good TOP. However we are seeing in the NFL this alone doesn't work like in college. However what else can DAboll do?
I'm just saying what I'm seeing and how I think the Giants will interpret it.
Any offense os going to struggle to score lot sof points with him at QB
This…
2 GMs ☠️
3 head coaches☠️
5 play callers☠️
If Jones were ever any good we would never have to debate him. Either all those coaches and play callers forgot how to be competent when they came to the Giants or Jones is not good. The evidence has mounted and is clear. He’s a losing player.
Sit his ass before he ruins the 2025 CAP and try something different.
It continues to not be good enough and we finish say 6-11 and we get a top 6 pick.
Ownership and management convince themselves he should get another year because he proven he's fully back from his injuries and he played well enough to keep us in games. Maybe we even beat the Eagles once and he plays really well in that game and they keep pointing to that game as they analyze the season.
We use the pick to draft a dynamic tight end or maybe another corner and we go into next season with Jones and maybe a project QB we draft in the 5th round to appease the masses.
We then go 6-11 again in 2025 and everyone is fired and we start over.
That's exactly what I've been saying/fearing all summer. There are enough bad teams out there for the Giants the win 6-7 games and for Jones to look decent enough in a few losses for the Giants to run it back in 2025. You can already see it happening, Jones "hasn't been the problem" so far, which is a far cry from being part of the solution, but that never seems to matter.
I think Daboll deserves a chance to go out and get his own QB
Not if he at least doesn't make a switch in 2024 first.
Didn't you just say you agreed they aren't too far off then pointed to the offense on the Cowherd thread?
If they aren't too far off - isn't that a nod to Schoen?
It continues to not be good enough and we finish say 6-11 and we get a top 6 pick.
Ownership and management convince themselves he should get another year because he proven he's fully back from his injuries and he played well enough to keep us in games. Maybe we even beat the Eagles once and he plays really well in that game and they keep pointing to that game as they analyze the season.
We use the pick to draft a dynamic tight end or maybe another corner and we go into next season with Jones and maybe a project QB we draft in the 5th round to appease the masses.
We then go 6-11 again in 2025 and everyone is fired and we start over.
That's exactly what's going to happen. Jones is on his way to the best year of his career.
Nothing to fear deep, especially of Nabers is out.
The run game and the play action only work if the defense fears the deep play. They don’t. They can run all the play action you want, the defense will just defend it the same way they’ve done.
Sell out for the run and not worry about the deep ball because he can’t hit it.
Studies have shown that there is no correlation between run game efficacy and play action efficacy. LBs react to the action.
Quote:
Jones continues playing at this level all year - just well enough that the so called pundits say Jones is playing well.
It continues to not be good enough and we finish say 6-11 and we get a top 6 pick.
Ownership and management convince themselves he should get another year because he proven he's fully back from his injuries and he played well enough to keep us in games. Maybe we even beat the Eagles once and he plays really well in that game and they keep pointing to that game as they analyze the season.
We use the pick to draft a dynamic tight end or maybe another corner and we go into next season with Jones and maybe a project QB we draft in the 5th round to appease the masses.
We then go 6-11 again in 2025 and everyone is fired and we start over.
That's exactly what I've been saying/fearing all summer. There are enough bad teams out there for the Giants the win 6-7 games and for Jones to look decent enough in a few losses for the Giants to run it back in 2025. You can already see it happening, Jones "hasn't been the problem" so far, which is a far cry from being part of the solution, but that never seems to matter.
This will do two things:
1. Keep the Giants the same bad-to-mediocre team they have been for a decade; and
2. Reset another "Make or Break Season for Jones - The No Excuses Tour"
Quote:
There runs from under center have probably been their worst ones so far this year.
The run game and the play action only work if the defense fears the deep play. They don’t. They can run all the play action you want, the defense will just defend it the same way they’ve done.
Sell out for the run and not worry about the deep ball because he can’t hit it.
Studies have shown that there is no correlation between run game efficacy and play action efficacy. LBs react to the action.
Correct. You don’t have to be good at running the ball to run successful play action. You doing fact have to be good at passing the ball. The Giants aren’t
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In comment 16627325 ajr2456 said:
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There runs from under center have probably been their worst ones so far this year.
The run game and the play action only work if the defense fears the deep play. They don’t. They can run all the play action you want, the defense will just defend it the same way they’ve done.
Sell out for the run and not worry about the deep ball because he can’t hit it.
Studies have shown that there is no correlation between run game efficacy and play action efficacy. LBs react to the action.
Correct. You don’t have to be good at running the ball to run successful play action. You doing fact have to be good at passing the ball. The Giants aren’t
I forgot about the second half of that.
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To get fired. The roster stinks. Schoen has a growing list of draft misses. Thibodeaux, Neal, Banks, Hyatt, etc..these were premium whiffs. If he were fired today, I would have zero issue. Daboll is an accomplice in this mess basically signing off on every Schoen fuck up. Both need to go. This operation is getting worse, not better.
Didn't you just say you agreed they aren't too far off then pointed to the offense on the Cowherd thread?
If they aren't too far off - isn't that a nod to Schoen?
The best components on this team are Gettleman guys: AT and Dex. Those are elite players. Schoen has brought in some players who have elevated the OL and DL by complimenting those 2, but his misses with premium draft picks and his handling of the QB position outweigh any good he’s done. QB’s get guys fired. Thats the NFL unfortunately. As do missed draft picks. I said cowherd isn’t far off only because I think this DC will keep us in games but it’s obvious what (who) is keeping the team back. I expect to be in a ton of games like last night, ultimately coming up short. When it’s all over, this could be the “best” 4-13 team ever.
It continues to not be good enough and we finish say 6-11 and we get a top 6 pick.
Ownership and management convince themselves he should get another year because he proven he's fully back from his injuries and he played well enough to keep us in games. Maybe we even beat the Eagles once and he plays really well in that game and they keep pointing to that game as they analyze the season.
We use the pick to draft a dynamic tight end or maybe another corner and we go into next season with Jones and maybe a project QB we draft in the 5th round to appease the masses.
We then go 6-11 again in 2025 and everyone is fired and we start over.
I'm afraid this is the most likely outcome. I hope I'm wrong- I can't a 7th season of this...
He trusts his system and coaching. Is there some arrogance there? Sure. But without his GM delivering a more talented option, Daboll has to make it work and sprinkle in positivity about his QB's play.
When the Giants were actually a good running team (and D's will adjust) Eli would often hit big plays right down the middle of the field. Under center, PA, plant foot, release and big play. Many teams have had the same success and still do.
He’s had his share of in game mishaps, but those are less magnified if they had a QB who can put up points
They paid Jones. They backed him up with Drew Lock. They didn't draft a QB.
They paid Jones. They backed him up with Drew Lock. They didn't draft a QB.
Dabolls involvement in the backup QB plan is more concerning to me than him owning Jones coming back.
If Mara and Schoen wanted him back there’s only so much Daboll could do. But if he was fine with Lock and no real competition that’s insane.
They paid Jones. They backed him up with Drew Lock. They didn't draft a QB.
IF you believe what you saw on Hard Knocks, it looked like Daboll was not on board with just sticking with Jones. IN fact he kept mentioning Maye and answered yes to Daniels. WE have no idea his stance on JJM/Nix.
To quote Parcells, in my mind Schoen and Mara are buying the groceries here.
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Daniel Jones didn't just start sucking this year. He sucked the day Daboll was hired.
They paid Jones. They backed him up with Drew Lock. They didn't draft a QB.
IF you believe what you saw on Hard Knocks, it looked like Daboll was not on board with just sticking with Jones. IN fact he kept mentioning Maye and answered yes to Daniels. WE have no idea his stance on JJM/Nix.
To quote Parcells, in my mind Schoen and Mara are buying the groceries here.
He also wouldn't shut up about Nabers. If he wanted a QB he didn't make himself clear enough.
This is about team building. Nabers is a stud, but he's made zero impact because a stud WR can't cover up for a shit QB. How the idiots running the Giants' draft didn't know that, I have no idea. Incredible stupidity.
I would've preferred QB at the draft. But part of that is because there was no guarantee that Nabers would he this good. Now that we've seen him be this good I think there is a strong argument for preferring him over the 3 QBs.
They paid Jones. They backed him up with Drew Lock. They didn't draft a QB.
I'm not following. Where is Daboll the problem?
Is Daboll the problem because he can't make Jones play better?
And/or are you holding him accountable for endorsing the idea of bringing Jones back?
Or is your issue more technical about his game management, strategy, etc?
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Daniel Jones didn't just start sucking this year. He sucked the day Daboll was hired.
They paid Jones. They backed him up with Drew Lock. They didn't draft a QB.
I'm not following. Where is Daboll the problem?
Is Daboll the problem because he can't make Jones play better?
And/or are you holding him accountable for endorsing the idea of bringing Jones back?
Or is your issue more technical about his game management, strategy, etc?
Daboll either was ok with coming into this season with Jones, or he failed to convince Schoen that a change at QB was urgently needed. Either way, he's part of the problem.
Daboll either was ok with coming into this season with Jones, or he failed to convince Schoen that a change at QB was urgently needed. Either way, he's part of the problem.
Daboll sounded pretty gung-ho to get a QB on a trade-up. I mean, when his boss can't execute a trade, I'm not sure what Daboll could do at that point.
Or are you more honed-in that he wanted Nabers, and not pushing for any of the "next three" QBs?
Ari Meirov
@MySportsUpdate
·
15m
Great line from #Vikings HC Kevin O’Connell on
@RichEisenShow
:
“I believe that organizations fail young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations.”
https://x.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1839703784856928552 - ( New Window )
Ari Meirov
@MySportsUpdate
·
15m
Great line from #Vikings HC Kevin O’Connell on
@RichEisenShow
:
“I believe that organizations fail young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations.” https://x.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1839703784856928552 - ( New Window )
Did the Giants fail Jones? To a degree. id Jones fail the Giants? Also yes. The bottom line is when a QB is drafted #6, he is supposed to be better than a just OK ceiling, especially in year 6. Period. End of story for me.
Their actions have told the tale for three God damned offseasons already. Since Schoen and Daboll got here in 2022 many teams around the league made changes at QB - including the currently undefeated Vikings and Steelers.
They had 3 offseasons. They made their choice, and their choice was Jones. I hope Jones plays every game this season, and I hope Schoen, Daboll, and Jones are all gone in January.
My guess though is that all three will be back.
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sam darnold got plenty of people fired but he isn't getting KOC fired is he?
Ari Meirov
@MySportsUpdate
·
15m
Great line from #Vikings HC Kevin O’Connell on
@RichEisenShow
:
“I believe that organizations fail young quarterbacks before young quarterbacks fail organizations.” https://x.com/MySportsUpdate/status/1839703784856928552 - ( New Window )
Just another over generalization for a sound bite and to support the young QB who turned it around for him. I don't believe that to be mostly true or untrue.
Did the Giants fail Jones? To a degree. id Jones fail the Giants? Also yes. The bottom line is when a QB is drafted #6, he is supposed to be better than a just OK ceiling, especially in year 6. Period. End of story for me.
4 games and Sam Darnold's good now? (Not that you're saying it).
Ryan Fitzpatrick would have stretches of excellence. The vast majority of the time if by the end of year 3 your young QB isn't playing at or close to a Pro Bowl level, he's almost certainly not the answer.
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Daboll either was ok with coming into this season with Jones, or he failed to convince Schoen that a change at QB was urgently needed. Either way, he's part of the problem.
Daboll sounded pretty gung-ho to get a QB on a trade-up. I mean, when his boss can't execute a trade, I'm not sure what Daboll could do at that point.
Or are you more honed-in that he wanted Nabers, and not pushing for any of the "next three" QBs?
Of the next 3 they passed on, I would rather have Nabers because I think he could very well be the best player in the draft. McCarthy didn't inspire greatness. He could be good, but I don't see a superstar there. Same with Nix. Penix I said many times that he had the highest ceiling fo the 6 QBs, but also the lowest floor for a few reasons. So, I wouldn't have taken him either.
Regardless, there's no point looking back. We have to look forward and see where the chips fall next year. The worst possible scenario is we do just well enough that the nonsensical talks about Arch in 2026 become overwhelming. We need either Jones to suddenly become amazing or draft a QB in 2025.
But again, how can NY review some things, but not others. That is a textbook example of where NY is supposed to step in to correct a completely correctable error.