Maybe he can throw a deep ball. I know he had a horrible preseason but this team is going nowhere. And might as well keep Jones healthy. 25% of the season is over almost. 10 days to get him ready.
Did you read or watch Dabs’ presser? He was slobbering over Jones.
He was complimentary. And DJ did play decently.
But if he's holding back the offense, they he shoudl be replaced.
I don't think he's holding back the offense. This is the offense.
Daboll is toast.
The offense is designed to cover for DJ's shortcomings. One read and throw it quickly. He can't throw anything but a prayer deep and he can't process information quickly to find windows down close to the endzone (INT into double or triple coverage).
Did you read or watch Dabs’ presser? He was slobbering over Jones.
He was complimentary. And DJ did play decently.
But if he's holding back the offense, they he shoudl be replaced.
I don't think he's holding back the offense. This is the offense.
Daboll is toast.
The offense is designed to cover for DJ's shortcomings. One read and throw it quickly. He can't throw anything but a prayer deep and he can't process information quickly to find windows down close to the endzone (INT into double or triple coverage).
He spread the ball around and went through multiple reads though ....
RE: RE: RE: RE: Lock is awful... if they secretly want to tank, play him.
1) Devin Singletary isn’t Derrick Henry, even a washed Derrick Henry
2) teams have to worry about Lamar Jackson, a two time MVP
But Devin Singletary is capable of running through a hole untouched even with 9 defenders in the box if the play is blocked well enough. The line didn’t block even remotely well. No need to make excuses for them or pass the buck.
Start DeVito. We have now scored multiple FGs but zero TDs in 3 of 4 games this season. Isn’t that a clear metric that we have a problem?
Not exactly. They scored 0 TDs in 2 games and 3 TDs in 2 games. The problem is one of those 2 games we had no PK so 3 TDs amounted to 18 points instead of 21.
Did you read or watch Dabs’ presser? He was slobbering over Jones.
He was complimentary. And DJ did play decently.
But if he's holding back the offense, they he shoudl be replaced.
I don't think he's holding back the offense. This is the offense.
Daboll is toast.
The offense is designed to cover for DJ's shortcomings. One read and throw it quickly. He can't throw anything but a prayer deep and he can't process information quickly to find windows down close to the endzone (INT into double or triple coverage).
He spread the ball around and went through multiple reads though ....
Yeah, I mean other than the deep ball Jones played really well last night, depsite zero run game. Pass pro was very good.
Now the deep ball was a problem. But shit happens. Guys miss on throws.
there's plenty to criticize there, but when a team can't get more than 1.5 yards per carry, there are few QBs in this league who would succeed and Lock sure as hell isn't one of them.
You know why they got 1.5 yards per carry right? Cause the defense stacks the box and doesn’t have to worry about covering anyone beyond 10 yards down the line of scrimmage. The QB can’t throw the ball 20 yards, so they stack the box. They Defend the short pass and shut down the run game. Force the QB to beat you and he didn’t. Dallas came in with a super shaky defense, they lost every single defensive player worth a dam in this game, Lawrence, Diggs and Parsons and they still couldn’t score a TD. Please find more excuses for our shit QB.
This is simply untrue. I know you guys hate Daniel Jones, but you need to stop lying. I just watched a running play in which the Cowboys had SIX players in the box and the Giants didn’t gain a single yard. The entire left side of the offensive line gets zero push off the ball. Van Roten can’t sustain his block on the backside LB, who eventually makes the tackle. The safeties never even get remotely close to the ball carrier. In case you’re wondering, it’s the play when Singletary appears to fumble but is ultimately ruled down by contact.
And there’s WAY too many examples of this last night. Want to blame terrible downfield throws on Jones? Go right ahead. But this idea that it’s also his fault that the offensive line did a horrific job of run blocking is pure horseshit.
Now that the cat's out of the bag, with regards to DJ's downfield ineptitude, teams will game-plan even better against us. We're entering each battle with one hand tied behind our backs. Lock, or even Cutlets, can't be any worse. It's time to at least see if that's the case.
there's plenty to criticize there, but when a team can't get more than 1.5 yards per carry, there are few QBs in this league who would succeed and Lock sure as hell isn't one of them.
There’s about 30 other QBs who would have succeeded last night.
Not to mention, connect deep just a couple of times and that running game would open up.
Now that the cat's out of the bag, with regards to DJ's downfield ineptitude, teams will game-plan even better against us. We're entering each battle with one hand tied behind our backs. Lock, or even Cutlets, can't be any worse. It's time to at least see if that's the case.
I think more than that, they will bait him to throw deep (making it look like a guy is open) and then pick off one of his rainbow long passes.
Now that the cat's out of the bag, with regards to DJ's downfield ineptitude, teams will game-plan even better against us. We're entering each battle with one hand tied behind our backs. Lock, or even Cutlets, can't be any worse. It's time to at least see if that's the case.
I think more than that, they will bait him to throw deep (making it look like a guy is open) and then pick off one of his rainbow long passes.
Should have happened three times the last two weeks. Diggs did exactly that on the free play
Now that the cat's out of the bag, with regards to DJ's downfield ineptitude, teams will game-plan even better against us. We're entering each battle with one hand tied behind our backs. Lock, or even Cutlets, can't be any worse. It's time to at least see if that's the case.
I think more than that, they will bait him to throw deep (making it look like a guy is open) and then pick off one of his rainbow long passes.
Should have happened three times the last two weeks. Diggs did exactly that on the free play
It was evident from the way Diggs played that he was aware Slayton had run beyond Jones' range and just waited for the ball to come down for an easy pick.
You can't hide Daniel Jones. The league knows what he is. Maybe some day will someone will tell our front office what the other 31 teams have already figured out.
Everyone was blaming Slayton on those 2 throws but it's Jones
His deep passes are not leading the receiver. All the WRs on this team are insanely fast. Slayton is probably the best 100m runner on the team(his track days) and Jones throws were floating and dying in midair
Drew Lock sucks. Thye are going to lose with him too. Jones doesn't suck. He's just subpar.
If the OL and Monty couldn't get a running game going against Dallas's miserable run defnese then let's not pretend Drew Lock is an answer.
If you want to bench Jones any time because of fear that the end of career injury is more rlevavant, thne okay. But this thread makes it sound like Drew Lock is a hope of an answer. He isn't.
Jones doesn't suck? JONES DOESN'T SUCK?!?
Jones has the team and the coaches in a strange situation.
He does some things well. He's showing that he can be competent with good protection. With a clean pocket, he complete passes in tight windows. His decision making looks better. He's avoiding turnovers. He almost certainly gives the Giants the best chance to win of any of the three QBs on the roster.
But they're not winning. And Jones's limitations are an important reason why they're not winning.
He's their best QB -- but not good enough. If you bench him for an inferior player, even though he's playing well (by some measures), that's going to be a problem in the locker room. Plus there's no reason to think Lock is better; he's just different. You'd be starting Lock just to get a better look at him. As for TDV, everybody loves his story but he's similar: not better, just different. TDV may become better than Jones, but he isn't there yet. He looked pretty darn bad in pre-season.
So: DJ is kind of, sort of playing well, too well to bench him, but well enough for the Giants to win, and certainly not well enough for them to contend for anything important. Unless he improves on his weak spots and starts winning games, that's a very tough spot for everyone involved.
-Lose the next three (and DJ is poor in all three but 2/3 may do it if it is the last game of that stretch). BD will be looking for a spark and a way to save his job.
-Other situation is if/when the Giants fall out of contention for the playoffs and JS feels secure he will be back. DJ gets pulled to protect the injury clause kicking in.
RE: Jones has the team and the coaches in a strange situation.
He does some things well. He's showing that he can be competent with good protection. With a clean pocket, he complete passes in tight windows. His decision making looks better. He's avoiding turnovers. He almost certainly gives the Giants the best chance to win of any of the three QBs on the roster.
But they're not winning. And Jones's limitations are an important reason why they're not winning.
He's their best QB -- but not good enough. If you bench him for an inferior player, even though he's playing well (by some measures), that's going to be a problem in the locker room. Plus there's no reason to think Lock is better; he's just different. You'd be starting Lock just to get a better look at him. As for TDV, everybody loves his story but he's similar: not better, just different. TDV may become better than Jones, but he isn't there yet. He looked pretty darn bad in pre-season.
So: DJ is kind of, sort of playing well, too well to bench him, but well enough for the Giants to win, and certainly not well enough for them to contend for anything important. Unless he improves on his weak spots and starts winning games, that's a very tough spot for everyone involved.
This, to a T.
RE: Jones has the team and the coaches in a strange situation.
He does some things well. He's showing that he can be competent with good protection. With a clean pocket, he complete passes in tight windows. His decision making looks better. He's avoiding turnovers. He almost certainly gives the Giants the best chance to win of any of the three QBs on the roster.
But they're not winning. And Jones's limitations are an important reason why they're not winning.
He's their best QB -- but not good enough. If you bench him for an inferior player, even though he's playing well (by some measures), that's going to be a problem in the locker room. Plus there's no reason to think Lock is better; he's just different. You'd be starting Lock just to get a better look at him. As for TDV, everybody loves his story but he's similar: not better, just different. TDV may become better than Jones, but he isn't there yet. He looked pretty darn bad in pre-season.
So: DJ is kind of, sort of playing well, too well to bench him, but well enough for the Giants to win, and certainly not well enough for them to contend for anything important. Unless he improves on his weak spots and starts winning games, that's a very tough spot for everyone involved.
Probably the best description I've seen of the conundrum and you'd need a FO and ownership not beholden to wishful thinking to get out of it. Color me pessimistic.
I think this is also an apt description of QB hell.
Team is going nowhere regardless of which one of the tree is the QB. And they need to have a new QB for next season.
The point is, in my opinion, to avoid Jones getting hurt. As it stands right now, next year he can be cut. If he gets hurt and the injury clause kicks in, he is fully guaranteed and he goes nowhere. I not only want him replaced, I want him and his cap hit gone. Another loss or two and it is time the Giants VERY seriously consider the Russell Wilson treatment for Jones.
Team is going nowhere regardless of which one of the tree is the QB. And they need to have a new QB for next season.
The point is, in my opinion, to avoid Jones getting hurt. As it stands right now, next year he can be cut. If he gets hurt and the injury clause kicks in, he is fully guaranteed and he goes nowhere. I not only want him replaced, I want him and his cap hit gone. Another loss or two and it is time the Giants VERY seriously consider the Russell Wilson treatment for Jones.
Agree with you Matt.
RE: RE: No, no, no...we ain't getting off that easy
there's plenty to criticize there, but when a team can't get more than 1.5 yards per carry, there are few QBs in this league who would succeed and Lock sure as hell isn't one of them.
Buffalo, Baltimore, Kansas City, New Orleans, Minnesota, Green Bay, etc don't have much of a running game but those teams can move the ball downfield at a prolific rate. Teams almost never use the run to set up the pass. Teams use the pass to set up the run. Always have, always will. When a team can't pass, the other team stacks the box against the run. And that's the Giants problem.
If I am reading correctly, what some are saying is that skill positions can be filled by JAG players if you get your qb. Can that philosophy also be applied to the OL as well?
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
If I am reading correctly, what some are saying is that skill positions can be filled by JAG players if you get your qb. Can that philosophy also be applied to the OL as well?
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
You're subscribing to what we call here the "Terps Theory of Success in the NFL".
If I am reading correctly, what some are saying is that skill positions can be filled by JAG players if you get your qb. Can that philosophy also be applied to the OL as well?
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
If I were a GM all prime resources would go to QB/OL/DL. The rest can be figured out later.
And your comment about mass drafting QBs, while obviously an exaggeration, gets to the point. A smart team takes as many swings as it can at QB. A stood team drafts Daniel Jones and rationalizes him into being a good QB in their own minds.
there's plenty to criticize there, but when a team can't get more than 1.5 yards per carry, there are few QBs in this league who would succeed and Lock sure as hell isn't one of them.
Buffalo, Baltimore, Kansas City, New Orleans, Minnesota, Green Bay, etc don't have much of a running game but those teams can move the ball downfield at a prolific rate. Teams almost never use the run to set up the pass. Teams use the pass to set up the run. Always have, always will. When a team can't pass, the other team stacks the box against the run. And that's the Giants problem.
If I am reading correctly, what some are saying is that skill positions can be filled by JAG players if you get your qb. Can that philosophy also be applied to the OL as well?
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
If I were a GM all prime resources would go to QB/OL/DL. The rest can be figured out later.
And your comment about mass drafting QBs, while obviously an exaggeration, gets to the point. A smart team takes as many swings as it can at QB. A stood team drafts Daniel Jones and rationalizes him into being a good QB in their own minds.
I think putting your prime resources into those positions is a good thing. They are of high importance.
As for the skill positions, if the qb is bad, how do we know certain players are not difference makers? The qb is the most important position in the game, the qb has the most impact on the game, so I would think it would be reasonable to think that an otherwise difference maker with a better qb may not be that same difference maker with a bad qb.
If I am reading correctly, what some are saying is that skill positions can be filled by JAG players if you get your qb. Can that philosophy also be applied to the OL as well?
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
If I were a GM all prime resources would go to QB/OL/DL. The rest can be figured out later.
And your comment about mass drafting QBs, while obviously an exaggeration, gets to the point. A smart team takes as many swings as it can at QB. A stood team drafts Daniel Jones and rationalizes him into being a good QB in their own minds.
I think putting your prime resources into those positions is a good thing. They are of high importance.
As for the skill positions, if the qb is bad, how do we know certain players are not difference makers? The qb is the most important position in the game, the qb has the most impact on the game, so I would think it would be reasonable to think that an otherwise difference maker with a better qb may not be that same difference maker with a bad qb.
That's the point. Without the QB, they're not. Tyreek Hill is the best WR in the league - have you watched the Dolphins the last couple weeks? Hill may as well not even be there.
The Giants went and drafted a great WR without a QB. Now Nabers is in danger of having the most affordable years of his career wasted while the Giants mismanage the QB position.
I think a skill player that causes defenses to change the way they attack are difference makers no matter the stats. Technically, the defense must account for every skill player because you can't just players run free, but some players require your defense to be stretched, or to rotate towards that skill player, which in turn creates holes or weak spots elsewhere. Now, there are different levels to which the defense must go to neutralize a player that is a difference maker. Not all skill players that garner attention from the defense are created equal. For some players, the defense can make more subtle adjustments to account for a player, while other players require more intricate adjustments to account for them.
TLDR: Players that are difference makers do not always boost the points per game, or boost your offensive ranking the way one expects. I think it is good to be careful when evaluating players through statistics without the context of their teammates on their unit.
If I am reading correctly, what some are saying is that skill positions can be filled by JAG players if you get your qb. Can that philosophy also be applied to the OL as well?
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
If I were a GM all prime resources would go to QB/OL/DL. The rest can be figured out later.
And your comment about mass drafting QBs, while obviously an exaggeration, gets to the point. A smart team takes as many swings as it can at QB. A stood team drafts Daniel Jones and rationalizes him into being a good QB in their own minds.
I think putting your prime resources into those positions is a good thing. They are of high importance.
As for the skill positions, if the qb is bad, how do we know certain players are not difference makers? The qb is the most important position in the game, the qb has the most impact on the game, so I would think it would be reasonable to think that an otherwise difference maker with a better qb may not be that same difference maker with a bad qb.
That's the point. Without the QB, they're not. Tyreek Hill is the best WR in the league - have you watched the Dolphins the last couple weeks? Hill may as well not even be there.
The Giants went and drafted a great WR without a QB. Now Nabers is in danger of having the most affordable years of his career wasted while the Giants mismanage the QB position.
Ok, so the issue is not the player themselves, but the qb. It is not that Nabers is not a difference maker, it is because of the limitations at the qb position. I can understand that much more than stating that Nabers is not a difference maker in general.
And the difference I'm talking about is on the scoreboard and in the standings.
Right, team construction in the big picture is the problem, but since qb's tremendously affect how the rest of the team plays, I think it is fair to then state that a team without a good qb is going to look much worse than what they really are. Players that would otherwise be top players in the league may look like under performing players. It is hard for me to get how a player can be classified as just another player when the qb position makes or breaks the team.
In other words, if you think you land your qb; don't gut the team. See which players respond to having a top qb drive the team. (Don't throw the baby out with the bathwater).
RE: RE: The season is over.... Playing Jones is negligent
...But they will still play him, and Jones will still keep sliding head first, and he will get injured again and the Giants will be on the hook for 2025.
That is starting to look inevitable. I don’t believe Mara is pulling the strings on Jones, but I would not be at all surprised if he didn’t tell Schoen and Daboll “You decide who starts and doesn’t, but you aren’t benching Daniel just because of the injury clause. That isn’t how we operate here.”
Then this is the time for JS to be the GM we hoped and respond, “We aren’t benching because of the clause, but because we need to open up the offense beyond DJs range. If you want to win, we do it our way. If you want a top 6 pick again, we’ll play him.”.
I doubt JM wants to pay another pair of GMs for 2 years, plus likely bring up BB from Asst GM, and shop for more FO leaders, again.
Lock will get a chance after a mutiny by the players
funny you should mention that. I don’t know who this guy is and he is probably full of it, but this was posted on X a little while ago True or false? - ( New Window )
That’s what Jones has until we shut him down for contract reasons.
We need a better deep ball. Nabers leads the league in 20+ yard plays despite this shit. He has 7 of them. Pretty sure the rest of the team has 5 or so.
So many big deep plays to Nabers have been missed too.
So we’re right now missing plays and getting him hurt with too tough plays. Just silly stuff. Jones or Lock need to deliver it right downfield.
Now that the cat's out of the bag, with regards to DJ's downfield ineptitude, teams will game-plan even better against us. We're entering each battle with one hand tied behind our backs. Lock, or even Cutlets, can't be any worse. It's time to at least see if that's the case.
I think more than that, they will bait him to throw deep (making it look like a guy is open) and then pick off one of his rainbow long passes.
Should have happened three times the last two weeks. Diggs did exactly that on the free play
It was evident from the way Diggs played that he was aware Slayton had run beyond Jones' range and just waited for the ball to come down for an easy pick.
You can't hide Daniel Jones. The league knows what he is. Maybe some day will someone will tell our front office what the other 31 teams have already figured out.
Maybe we'll hire a current defensive coordinator to be our next HC and he'll being with him an urgency to replace Jones based on his days game planning against us
He was complimentary. And DJ did play decently.
But if he's holding back the offense, they he shoudl be replaced.
I don't think he's holding back the offense. This is the offense.
Daboll is toast.
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Did you read or watch Dabs’ presser? He was slobbering over Jones.
He was complimentary. And DJ did play decently.
But if he's holding back the offense, they he shoudl be replaced.
I don't think he's holding back the offense. This is the offense.
Daboll is toast.
The offense is designed to cover for DJ's shortcomings. One read and throw it quickly. He can't throw anything but a prayer deep and he can't process information quickly to find windows down close to the endzone (INT into double or triple coverage).
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In comment 16627366 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
Quote:
Did you read or watch Dabs’ presser? He was slobbering over Jones.
He was complimentary. And DJ did play decently.
But if he's holding back the offense, they he shoudl be replaced.
I don't think he's holding back the offense. This is the offense.
Daboll is toast.
The offense is designed to cover for DJ's shortcomings. One read and throw it quickly. He can't throw anything but a prayer deep and he can't process information quickly to find windows down close to the endzone (INT into double or triple coverage).
He spread the ball around and went through multiple reads though ....
1) Devin Singletary isn’t Derrick Henry, even a washed Derrick Henry
2) teams have to worry about Lamar Jackson, a two time MVP
But Devin Singletary is capable of running through a hole untouched even with 9 defenders in the box if the play is blocked well enough. The line didn’t block even remotely well. No need to make excuses for them or pass the buck.
Forget these bags of trash they have at QB. All of them.
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Start DeVito. We have now scored multiple FGs but zero TDs in 3 of 4 games this season. Isn’t that a clear metric that we have a problem?
Not exactly. They scored 0 TDs in 2 games and 3 TDs in 2 games. The problem is one of those 2 games we had no PK so 3 TDs amounted to 18 points instead of 21.
Yeah, don’t know what I was thinking. Thanks.
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In comment 16627449 BillKo said:
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In comment 16627366 SFGFNCGiantsFan said:
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Did you read or watch Dabs’ presser? He was slobbering over Jones.
He was complimentary. And DJ did play decently.
But if he's holding back the offense, they he shoudl be replaced.
I don't think he's holding back the offense. This is the offense.
Daboll is toast.
The offense is designed to cover for DJ's shortcomings. One read and throw it quickly. He can't throw anything but a prayer deep and he can't process information quickly to find windows down close to the endzone (INT into double or triple coverage).
He spread the ball around and went through multiple reads though ....
Yeah, I mean other than the deep ball Jones played really well last night, depsite zero run game. Pass pro was very good.
Now the deep ball was a problem. But shit happens. Guys miss on throws.
You need imagination in the redzone.
Daboll brings ZERO imagination to the redzone.
That opens up running lanes for the running back
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there's plenty to criticize there, but when a team can't get more than 1.5 yards per carry, there are few QBs in this league who would succeed and Lock sure as hell isn't one of them.
You know why they got 1.5 yards per carry right? Cause the defense stacks the box and doesn’t have to worry about covering anyone beyond 10 yards down the line of scrimmage. The QB can’t throw the ball 20 yards, so they stack the box. They Defend the short pass and shut down the run game. Force the QB to beat you and he didn’t. Dallas came in with a super shaky defense, they lost every single defensive player worth a dam in this game, Lawrence, Diggs and Parsons and they still couldn’t score a TD. Please find more excuses for our shit QB.
This is simply untrue. I know you guys hate Daniel Jones, but you need to stop lying. I just watched a running play in which the Cowboys had SIX players in the box and the Giants didn’t gain a single yard. The entire left side of the offensive line gets zero push off the ball. Van Roten can’t sustain his block on the backside LB, who eventually makes the tackle. The safeties never even get remotely close to the ball carrier. In case you’re wondering, it’s the play when Singletary appears to fumble but is ultimately ruled down by contact.
And there’s WAY too many examples of this last night. Want to blame terrible downfield throws on Jones? Go right ahead. But this idea that it’s also his fault that the offensive line did a horrific job of run blocking is pure horseshit.
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there's plenty to criticize there, but when a team can't get more than 1.5 yards per carry, there are few QBs in this league who would succeed and Lock sure as hell isn't one of them.
There’s about 30 other QBs who would have succeeded last night.
Not to mention, connect deep just a couple of times and that running game would open up.
I think more than that, they will bait him to throw deep (making it look like a guy is open) and then pick off one of his rainbow long passes.
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Now that the cat's out of the bag, with regards to DJ's downfield ineptitude, teams will game-plan even better against us. We're entering each battle with one hand tied behind our backs. Lock, or even Cutlets, can't be any worse. It's time to at least see if that's the case.
I think more than that, they will bait him to throw deep (making it look like a guy is open) and then pick off one of his rainbow long passes.
Should have happened three times the last two weeks. Diggs did exactly that on the free play
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In comment 16627561 Spider43 said:
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Now that the cat's out of the bag, with regards to DJ's downfield ineptitude, teams will game-plan even better against us. We're entering each battle with one hand tied behind our backs. Lock, or even Cutlets, can't be any worse. It's time to at least see if that's the case.
I think more than that, they will bait him to throw deep (making it look like a guy is open) and then pick off one of his rainbow long passes.
Should have happened three times the last two weeks. Diggs did exactly that on the free play
It was evident from the way Diggs played that he was aware Slayton had run beyond Jones' range and just waited for the ball to come down for an easy pick.
You can't hide Daniel Jones. The league knows what he is. Maybe some day will someone will tell our front office what the other 31 teams have already figured out.
If the OL and Monty couldn't get a running game going against Dallas's miserable run defnese then let's not pretend Drew Lock is an answer.
If you want to bench Jones any time because of fear that the end of career injury is more rlevavant, thne okay. But this thread makes it sound like Drew Lock is a hope of an answer. He isn't.
Jones doesn't suck? JONES DOESN'T SUCK?!?
But they're not winning. And Jones's limitations are an important reason why they're not winning.
He's their best QB -- but not good enough. If you bench him for an inferior player, even though he's playing well (by some measures), that's going to be a problem in the locker room. Plus there's no reason to think Lock is better; he's just different. You'd be starting Lock just to get a better look at him. As for TDV, everybody loves his story but he's similar: not better, just different. TDV may become better than Jones, but he isn't there yet. He looked pretty darn bad in pre-season.
So: DJ is kind of, sort of playing well, too well to bench him, but well enough for the Giants to win, and certainly not well enough for them to contend for anything important. Unless he improves on his weak spots and starts winning games, that's a very tough spot for everyone involved.
-Other situation is if/when the Giants fall out of contention for the playoffs and JS feels secure he will be back. DJ gets pulled to protect the injury clause kicking in.
But they're not winning. And Jones's limitations are an important reason why they're not winning.
He's their best QB -- but not good enough. If you bench him for an inferior player, even though he's playing well (by some measures), that's going to be a problem in the locker room. Plus there's no reason to think Lock is better; he's just different. You'd be starting Lock just to get a better look at him. As for TDV, everybody loves his story but he's similar: not better, just different. TDV may become better than Jones, but he isn't there yet. He looked pretty darn bad in pre-season.
So: DJ is kind of, sort of playing well, too well to bench him, but well enough for the Giants to win, and certainly not well enough for them to contend for anything important. Unless he improves on his weak spots and starts winning games, that's a very tough spot for everyone involved.
But they're not winning. And Jones's limitations are an important reason why they're not winning.
He's their best QB -- but not good enough. If you bench him for an inferior player, even though he's playing well (by some measures), that's going to be a problem in the locker room. Plus there's no reason to think Lock is better; he's just different. You'd be starting Lock just to get a better look at him. As for TDV, everybody loves his story but he's similar: not better, just different. TDV may become better than Jones, but he isn't there yet. He looked pretty darn bad in pre-season.
So: DJ is kind of, sort of playing well, too well to bench him, but well enough for the Giants to win, and certainly not well enough for them to contend for anything important. Unless he improves on his weak spots and starts winning games, that's a very tough spot for everyone involved.
Probably the best description I've seen of the conundrum and you'd need a FO and ownership not beholden to wishful thinking to get out of it. Color me pessimistic.
I think this is also an apt description of QB hell.
What good is QB4 if it's not the answer?
WR1 looks to be certainly a blue chip.
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Team is going nowhere regardless of which one of the tree is the QB. And they need to have a new QB for next season.
The point is, in my opinion, to avoid Jones getting hurt. As it stands right now, next year he can be cut. If he gets hurt and the injury clause kicks in, he is fully guaranteed and he goes nowhere. I not only want him replaced, I want him and his cap hit gone. Another loss or two and it is time the Giants VERY seriously consider the Russell Wilson treatment for Jones.
Agree with you Matt.
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This is what we wanted. We wanted to draft WR1 over QB4, remember? Weapons are in place for Daniel, now we see it play out.
What good is QB4 if it's not the answer?
WR1 looks to be certainly a blue chip.
Nabers is no more an answer than anyone else. Despite his excellent play the Giants are scoring 15 PPG. He's made no impact.
Buffalo, Baltimore, Kansas City, New Orleans, Minnesota, Green Bay, etc don't have much of a running game but those teams can move the ball downfield at a prolific rate. Teams almost never use the run to set up the pass. Teams use the pass to set up the run. Always have, always will. When a team can't pass, the other team stacks the box against the run. And that's the Giants problem.
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
You're subscribing to what we call here the "Terps Theory of Success in the NFL".
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
If I were a GM all prime resources would go to QB/OL/DL. The rest can be figured out later.
And your comment about mass drafting QBs, while obviously an exaggeration, gets to the point. A smart team takes as many swings as it can at QB. A stood team drafts Daniel Jones and rationalizes him into being a good QB in their own minds.
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there's plenty to criticize there, but when a team can't get more than 1.5 yards per carry, there are few QBs in this league who would succeed and Lock sure as hell isn't one of them.
Buffalo, Baltimore, Kansas City, New Orleans, Minnesota, Green Bay, etc don't have much of a running game but those teams can move the ball downfield at a prolific rate. Teams almost never use the run to set up the pass. Teams use the pass to set up the run. Always have, always will. When a team can't pass, the other team stacks the box against the run. And that's the Giants problem.
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If I am reading correctly, what some are saying is that skill positions can be filled by JAG players if you get your qb. Can that philosophy also be applied to the OL as well?
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
If I were a GM all prime resources would go to QB/OL/DL. The rest can be figured out later.
And your comment about mass drafting QBs, while obviously an exaggeration, gets to the point. A smart team takes as many swings as it can at QB. A stood team drafts Daniel Jones and rationalizes him into being a good QB in their own minds.
I think putting your prime resources into those positions is a good thing. They are of high importance.
As for the skill positions, if the qb is bad, how do we know certain players are not difference makers? The qb is the most important position in the game, the qb has the most impact on the game, so I would think it would be reasonable to think that an otherwise difference maker with a better qb may not be that same difference maker with a bad qb.
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In comment 16627882 ChrisRick said:
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If I am reading correctly, what some are saying is that skill positions can be filled by JAG players if you get your qb. Can that philosophy also be applied to the OL as well?
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
If I were a GM all prime resources would go to QB/OL/DL. The rest can be figured out later.
And your comment about mass drafting QBs, while obviously an exaggeration, gets to the point. A smart team takes as many swings as it can at QB. A stood team drafts Daniel Jones and rationalizes him into being a good QB in their own minds.
I think putting your prime resources into those positions is a good thing. They are of high importance.
As for the skill positions, if the qb is bad, how do we know certain players are not difference makers? The qb is the most important position in the game, the qb has the most impact on the game, so I would think it would be reasonable to think that an otherwise difference maker with a better qb may not be that same difference maker with a bad qb.
That's the point. Without the QB, they're not. Tyreek Hill is the best WR in the league - have you watched the Dolphins the last couple weeks? Hill may as well not even be there.
The Giants went and drafted a great WR without a QB. Now Nabers is in danger of having the most affordable years of his career wasted while the Giants mismanage the QB position.
TLDR: Players that are difference makers do not always boost the points per game, or boost your offensive ranking the way one expects. I think it is good to be careful when evaluating players through statistics without the context of their teammates on their unit.
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In comment 16627899 Go Terps said:
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In comment 16627882 ChrisRick said:
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If I am reading correctly, what some are saying is that skill positions can be filled by JAG players if you get your qb. Can that philosophy also be applied to the OL as well?
If you only need the superstar qb, why not mass draft qbs every year no matter what slot you pick?
If I were a GM all prime resources would go to QB/OL/DL. The rest can be figured out later.
And your comment about mass drafting QBs, while obviously an exaggeration, gets to the point. A smart team takes as many swings as it can at QB. A stood team drafts Daniel Jones and rationalizes him into being a good QB in their own minds.
I think putting your prime resources into those positions is a good thing. They are of high importance.
As for the skill positions, if the qb is bad, how do we know certain players are not difference makers? The qb is the most important position in the game, the qb has the most impact on the game, so I would think it would be reasonable to think that an otherwise difference maker with a better qb may not be that same difference maker with a bad qb.
That's the point. Without the QB, they're not. Tyreek Hill is the best WR in the league - have you watched the Dolphins the last couple weeks? Hill may as well not even be there.
The Giants went and drafted a great WR without a QB. Now Nabers is in danger of having the most affordable years of his career wasted while the Giants mismanage the QB position.
Ok, so the issue is not the player themselves, but the qb. It is not that Nabers is not a difference maker, it is because of the limitations at the qb position. I can understand that much more than stating that Nabers is not a difference maker in general.
Right, team construction in the big picture is the problem, but since qb's tremendously affect how the rest of the team plays, I think it is fair to then state that a team without a good qb is going to look much worse than what they really are. Players that would otherwise be top players in the league may look like under performing players. It is hard for me to get how a player can be classified as just another player when the qb position makes or breaks the team.
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...But they will still play him, and Jones will still keep sliding head first, and he will get injured again and the Giants will be on the hook for 2025.
That is starting to look inevitable. I don’t believe Mara is pulling the strings on Jones, but I would not be at all surprised if he didn’t tell Schoen and Daboll “You decide who starts and doesn’t, but you aren’t benching Daniel just because of the injury clause. That isn’t how we operate here.”
Then this is the time for JS to be the GM we hoped and respond, “We aren’t benching because of the clause, but because we need to open up the offense beyond DJs range. If you want to win, we do it our way. If you want a top 6 pick again, we’ll play him.”.
I doubt JM wants to pay another pair of GMs for 2 years, plus likely bring up BB from Asst GM, and shop for more FO leaders, again.
This is a failure of JS (and BD to a degree in terms of construction). They need a QB. Plus they need OL and a much better Defense.
It still is a question how many years Nabers peak years will be wasted.
I agree 1st option has to be a QB. With that said until they get one, build the damn trenches.
He spread the ball around and went through multiple reads though ....
True or false? - ( New Window )
We need a better deep ball. Nabers leads the league in 20+ yard plays despite this shit. He has 7 of them. Pretty sure the rest of the team has 5 or so.
So many big deep plays to Nabers have been missed too.
So we’re right now missing plays and getting him hurt with too tough plays. Just silly stuff. Jones or Lock need to deliver it right downfield.
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In comment 16627581 sb from NYT Forum said:
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In comment 16627561 Spider43 said:
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Now that the cat's out of the bag, with regards to DJ's downfield ineptitude, teams will game-plan even better against us. We're entering each battle with one hand tied behind our backs. Lock, or even Cutlets, can't be any worse. It's time to at least see if that's the case.
I think more than that, they will bait him to throw deep (making it look like a guy is open) and then pick off one of his rainbow long passes.
Should have happened three times the last two weeks. Diggs did exactly that on the free play
It was evident from the way Diggs played that he was aware Slayton had run beyond Jones' range and just waited for the ball to come down for an easy pick.
You can't hide Daniel Jones. The league knows what he is. Maybe some day will someone will tell our front office what the other 31 teams have already figured out.
Maybe we'll hire a current defensive coordinator to be our next HC and he'll being with him an urgency to replace Jones based on his days game planning against us