My “non-emotional” thoughts from yesterday’s game. As always, feel free to argue with mine, add your own, etc…
Overview:
Giants 15, Dallas 20: I mentioned yesterday that this game was a “Giant Opportunity” for this team. Dallas was weak in the secondary, not playing well and haven’t been able to stop the run at all. Not that we’ve played perfect football for the past three games, but the team was coming off its best outing of the season while Dallas was beat up badly by The Ravens. Everything lined up well for a winnable game but again, this team fails to capitalize on an opportunity that’s sitting right in front of them. 5 field goals vs 0 TDs leads to us losing a winnable game and falling to 1-3. While part of me would like to call out that we lost the 2 Dallas games by a combined 72 points last season and refer to this as progress, I’m tired of the “feel good losses” that The Giants have picked up over the last 10 years. We need to start winning games like this. This loss was indicative of the stink of loosing that is stuck to this franchise. We had an opportunity, we didn’t capitalize.
Offense:
1 – It was the tale of two offensive lines last night. Starting with the pass blocking, I can’t remember a Giants QB having as much time to throw in a Dallas game as Jones did last night. It’s been a very long time since we’ve afforded a QB consistent clean pockets and only allowed one sack against this team. Typically, we look at the stat sheets the next day and see gaudy sack numbers and wake up to Demarcus Lawrence, Micah Parsons, Randy Gregory, etc… highlights on Twitter. The pass blocking wasn’t perfect last night, there was some pressure, but the line gave Jones more than enough time to operate the passing game. On the flip side, we should have gouged this team in the running game and just absolutely failed to do so. 24 rushes for 26 yards against this unit is horrible, we won’t win games running the ball like this.
I’m glad the bar has raised on what we view as good and bad with the offensive line. In the past the Dallas D-Line would physically wreck us, we went toe to toe with them last night, so take that as a positive for the future. With all that being said, the run blocking was putrid.
2 – We’ve heard the John Mara comments in the past regarding not being able to evaluate Daniel Jones because we have no receivers and no offensive line. Guess what? We do this season and we’re seeing exactly what Jones is and that’s a game manager. While I can watch him play and say he looks more like the QB that randomly took us to the playoffs in 2022, I still can’t say he’s the future of this franchise nor is he anything more than a low-level starter or high level back up. Last night is a great example, he was effective in moving the ball down the field but failed to connect on any big plays other than a 39-yard pitch and catch to Malik Nabers that featured 10+ yards of separation. Multiple deep shots were missed throughout the night and the offense seemed to fizzle out the closer we got to the redzone where passing windows shrink, and QB’s need to make decisions faster. This is what Jones is, it isn’t horrible, but he’s not making anyone on the offense better.
Something else to go with this that I couldn’t help but think when watching last night. Is Jones the only QB in the NFL that when breaking the pocket and buying time never finds an open WR? For years I’ve watched the better QB’s break the pocket on these plays, move out to a spot, reset, then find an open WR deep down the field. With Jones this always turns into a short scramble or throw away. I know I’m nitpicking but it’s just annoying.
3 – It’s been 4 games and I’m getting to the point where I almost don’t need to talk about Malik Nabers anymore. 12 receptions for 115 yards and it almost seemed quiet compared to his first three games. He’s not a good player, he’s already a great player. He’ll be in the conversation for the pro bowl and ROY at the end of the season barring health. Schoen hit on this one. While it’s great to see him playing so well, we need the people around him to step up and we need bigger plays from the other WRs. Outside from Nabers I think only Slayton brought in a reception of over 20 yards, we created none in the running game and Jones missed on a lot of deep shots. In the modern NFL you can’t score points moving the ball at 4 yards per clip. Part of this is Jones and part is the weapons, but the result is 5 field goals vs 0 touchdowns. Speaking of touchdowns, I always have felt that a good TE is your best weapon in the red zone, our TE’s saw a whopping 1 target, 1 catch and 6 yards last night.
Defense:
1 – One bad play from Deonte Banks was the difference in this game. When I look at the defense, he is now the number one guy who I’m banging the table to raise his game. He never gets completely burnt, as a matter of fact he’s usually right with the WR, but he fails to make plays on the ball and last night failed to make a tackle on Ceedee Lamb after the catch that led to a very long TD, which was the difference in the game. Other than that, Lamb had a very quiet game catching nothing but short stuff underneath. Banks has 3 extra days to watch film and work on his craft, the athletic ability is clearly there, its all technique stuff. If he improves this defense takes a big jump.
2 – Since I called out Banks, I’d like to call out Cor’dale Flott for having a good game. Flott has made strides since training camp in both his coverage and his tackling. While he wasn’t exactly lining up against a Ceedee Lamb quality player, his coverage was sticky, and he showed aggressiveness in his tackling. I was pleased with his game and if he could maintain this level of play, we have a CB2.
3 – Clearly the gameplan from last night was not to blitz. As a matter of fact, the one long TD we gave up was due to Dak burning us on an obviously telegraphed safety blitz from the edge. Sitting here the next day I’m not sure how I feel about this. On one hand I do think this defense plays much better when they’re attacking vs being in a read and react situation. We also seem to rarely get home with just 4 rushers despite the fact we’ve dedicated a lot of resources to our front 4. However, we also held Dallas to 20 points and put our offense in multiple positions to score a touchdown and win the game. The reality is that if you give up 20 points and lose the game, the defense did their job and the offense is to blame. NFL teams average over 20 points a game, we need an offense that consistently goes north of this number.
Coaching:
No major gaffs, no kickers injuring themselves on the opening kick-off, nothing that would make me yell and scream at Daboll. Still, I felt like this was a very boring gameplan on both sides of the ball. Specifically given how bad Dallas’s run defense has been, I was disappointed that we couldn’t come up with a way to take advantage of this. Daboll is very clearly trying to create big plays, Jones just isn’t that type of guy. Watching last night I couldn’t help to think that not only is Jones just not the answer for the future, he’s also not the right QB for the system Daboll wants to run. We’ll see if he gets to coach the replacement in a few months.
I said my piece on Bowen above. Overall, I can say the defense has shown improvement week to week but there are still things to clean up. If Banks learns to play the ball and the line starts getting home with 4 we can be good.
Conclusion:
I’m done with “feel good losses”, we had far too many of them during the Joe Judge era and continuously looking at the bright side is the trap our front office fell into which led to poor roster evaluation. We could have and should have won this game last night; the players should be pissed, and the coaches should be disappointed. Yes, there are building blocks, yes, the team didn’t quit, yes to all that rose colored glasses stuff we’ve said in the past, but this team is at the cusp of taking a step forward and just needs to grab the bull by the horns.
There are 10 days between now and our next game. The coaching staff has a lot of time to regroup, watch film and make some necessary tweaks. I’m hoping they can put together something to get us a win in Seattle.
Just a note: I’m unsure whether I’ll be able to do this thread after the next game. I have a family issue to attend to and will be traveling all day next Sunday, so I don’t know when I’m going to have the opportunity to watch the game. I am going to try and watch somehow and if I can, will do this thread the next day.
Also, think Johnson getting more involved will help.
I'm ready to move on from Schoen and Daboll. These are not the guys.
Huge buzz kill for the fans to see that. Playing not to lose.
DJ's long throws are more like pooch punts (Nabers could have fair caught the throw to him). Its like we don't remember what a post pattern looks like, seam route to a TE, deep outs, etc. Most throws are short and hope for YAC. Yeah, we can win a few games like that, but we are not a threat to do anything more. Boring and uninspired football.
Huge buzz kill for the fans to see that. Playing not to lose.
This very much felt like a coach not trusting his QB to me.
And I hope your family issue is something that resolves positively. If we have to get this summary a day or two later, or even skip a week, we aren’t going anywhere. Take care of yourself and your family.
Frustrating - team is getting better but should've won the last two games.
As for the offense there is always going tl be a cap on how good they can be as long as Jones is the QB. He didnt play horrible yesterday but the inability to hit the deep pass is really hurting them..
They easily should of score 30 points last night, he simply cant hit the big play and when you cant hit the big play you are then forced to score in a tight bkx in the redzone
The only item I would quibble with is your point about Jones not being able to scramble for time to find WR’s, that’s not a nitpick, it’s a problem.
This play did not result in a TD, or even a catchable pass.
The pass blocking was very good. The run blocking not so much.
The defense is certainly improving. As has been the case the last several years, the offense is not working.
The entire team will feel it, and play not to lose as well. That creates tension and tunnel vision and mistakes and playing down to a lower level.
Nothing massive, more of a "wellness check" on a relative who lives in FL. My wife booked the flights and picked a returning one that leaves right about kick off time and has no wifi...
I'm going to DVR the game and if I can get in my house early enough to watch it before bed I'll do so. You can really shorten a game by fast forwarding through the commercials.
Also, Johnson's development is key to this team being more successful.
If you're going to gear your entire running game on speed - give Miller a shot and live with his growing pains
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Outside from Nabers I think only Slayton brought in a reception of over 20 yards, we created none in the running game and Jones missed on a lot of deep shots. In the modern NFL you can’t score points moving the ball at 4 yards per clip. Part of this is Jones and part is the weapons, but the result is 5 field goals vs 0 touchdowns.
This play did not result in a TD, or even a catchable pass.
It was catchable for the Dallas DB’s, they had more drops than Giant WR’s.
The entire team will feel it, and play not to lose as well. That creates tension and tunnel vision and mistakes and playing down to a lower level.
I would also say this team remains at a talent deficit, although the talent level on Dallas has dropped precipitously in the last two years.
Also, Johnson's development is key to this team being more successful.
If you're going to gear your entire running game on speed - give Miller a shot and live with his growing pains
The RB unit leaves alot to be desired. If nothing else, SB ate up carries and was effective.
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but were on full display last night : Jones is limited in the passing game, especially downfield, and Daboll coaches accordingly, eg not to lose. The coaches know their jobs are on the line this season and they're coaching not to lose.
The entire team will feel it, and play not to lose as well. That creates tension and tunnel vision and mistakes and playing down to a lower level.
I would also say this team remains at a talent deficit, although the talent level on Dallas has dropped precipitously in the last two years.
Yes and yes, and injuries took effect last night.
re: Jones... just a weird all-around situation. He is low starter/high back up quality in my opinion. He can "manage" a game as others have said and is just good enough to lose but most definitely does not elevate the guys around him. He is like the vast majority of other NFL QB's but has a spotlight on him b/c of his draft status and salary.
none of the above is to absolve him of anything... just an observation that he has likely risen to the highest level he ever will and the team has to make a decision if that is good enough (I think most of us hope they make the right decision and decide it isn't).
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but were on full display last night : Jones is limited in the passing game, especially downfield, and Daboll coaches accordingly, eg not to lose. The coaches know their jobs are on the line this season and they're coaching not to lose.
The entire team will feel it, and play not to lose as well. That creates tension and tunnel vision and mistakes and playing down to a lower level.
I would also say this team remains at a talent deficit, although the talent level on Dallas has dropped precipitously in the last two years.
The talent is a lot better than it was 2 years ago, you watched last night and thought Dallas won because they were more talented?
This is not last year's Dallas team. Coming in, they couldn't stop the run, they couldn't rush the passer, they couldn't run the ball and they couldn't protect the passer with two rookie tackles. They managed 2 td's and 2 long FG with their sniper kicker. I'm not blaming the D for this one.
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The FG from 4th and goal from the 3 was just a huge swing in how Daboll coaches now vs how he was in his first season. A shame. Who cares if you don't get it there? It's 3 points and Dallas would be pinned back.
Huge buzz kill for the fans to see that. Playing not to lose.
This very much felt like a coach not trusting his QB to me.
They needed 3 yards.
Banks effort after the catch is what bothered me the most. He needs to stop all the talking and start tackling. Lamb was fired up to go beat him. As soon as he caught it Banks gave up. CB's get humbled fast in this league. He is a #1 CB by default only. He could be a good solid cover guy but I don't see him as a follow the number 1 guy around corner. But not to many year 2 guys are. He can still bounce back and prove me wrong.
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In comment 16627261 JonC said:
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but were on full display last night : Jones is limited in the passing game, especially downfield, and Daboll coaches accordingly, eg not to lose. The coaches know their jobs are on the line this season and they're coaching not to lose.
The entire team will feel it, and play not to lose as well. That creates tension and tunnel vision and mistakes and playing down to a lower level.
I would also say this team remains at a talent deficit, although the talent level on Dallas has dropped precipitously in the last two years.
The talent is a lot better than it was 2 years ago, you watched last night and thought Dallas won because they were more talented?
Giants are incrementally more talented than two years ago, but they are looking vastly overrated at WR minus Nabers, RB, and TE.
This is not last year's Dallas team. Coming in, they couldn't stop the run, they couldn't rush the passer, they couldn't run the ball and they couldn't protect the passer with two rookie tackles. They managed 2 td's and 2 long FG with their sniper kicker. I'm not blaming the D for this one.
This. They can dink and dunk for a quarter of the price.
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In comment 16627285 Bobby Humphrey's Earpad said:
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In comment 16627261 JonC said:
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but were on full display last night : Jones is limited in the passing game, especially downfield, and Daboll coaches accordingly, eg not to lose. The coaches know their jobs are on the line this season and they're coaching not to lose.
The entire team will feel it, and play not to lose as well. That creates tension and tunnel vision and mistakes and playing down to a lower level.
I would also say this team remains at a talent deficit, although the talent level on Dallas has dropped precipitously in the last two years.
The talent is a lot better than it was 2 years ago, you watched last night and thought Dallas won because they were more talented?
Giants are incrementally more talented than two years ago, but they are looking vastly overrated at WR minus Nabers, RB, and TE.
But how much of that is because the QB is limited on how he distributes the ball?
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is there anything Jones did last night that Gardner Mineshew or Jacoby Brissett or 5 other guys couldn't have done for a whole lot less than $40 million? We come up with a short, high completion pct, one-read, YAC-hoping passing game and manage to kick 5 FG.
This is not last year's Dallas team. Coming in, they couldn't stop the run, they couldn't rush the passer, they couldn't run the ball and they couldn't protect the passer with two rookie tackles. They managed 2 td's and 2 long FG with their sniper kicker. I'm not blaming the D for this one.
This. They can dink and dunk for a quarter of the price.
Yeah but those guys aren't out of QB central casting, so now we're going to hold WRs accountable for every mistake they make and make excuses for the $47 million QB.
It's pathetic.
QB is obviously their biggest problem, and has been for many seasons.
Dallas all but handed the Giants this game. But yeah, a "competitive game" and Jones " played well and made a lot of good decisions, throws" per Daboll. Just pathetic.
I hope he ripped this team a new asshole in the locker room. For some reason, I doubt it.
Speaking of Jones, this might be the best 3 game stretch he’s put together and it’s not good enough. Now saying that , if he can start to connect on some of those longer throws than my opinion could change. He’s done a lot of things well but if you can stretch the field we will continue to struggle to score TDs
it boggles my mind that some seem to believe there is a free pass for daboll (and presumably schoen) into next year. it is year 3. win or go home.
yesterday was their cleanest game of the year so i give the coaches credit for that, it was lost by missed throws, dropped passes, and the play banks got burned on. the coaches didnt drop the ball wandale did, or miss the throws jones did, or lose lamb like banks did (or take bad angle like nubin did).
they did however decide to play slayton with a bad hand and the worst ball security of any WR i can ever remember.
they did decide to let julian love go over a modest amount of money for no apparent reason.
they did let barkley go knowing jones was a limited QB who was helped by a run first offense greatly in 2022. and replaced him with a fumbler.
little things in the NFL add up to losses. games are decided by very small margins. it is time to hire someone in the organization at some level who understands that and isn't a first time relearning that lesson in front of us.
The 4th and 3 was a killer. Daboll doesn’t trust DJ there? How about trusting himself to have a play he likes to run down tight in an important late game situation. Kind of important.
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I’m tired of the “feel good losses” that The Giants have picked up over the last 10 years. We need to start winning games like this. This loss was indicative of the stink of loosing that is stuck to this franchise. We had an opportunity, we didn’t capitalize.
it boggles my mind that some seem to believe there is a free pass for daboll (and presumably schoen) into next year. it is year 3. win or go home.
yesterday was their cleanest game of the year so i give the coaches credit for that, it was lost by missed throws, dropped passes, and the play banks got burned on. the coaches didnt drop the ball wandale did, or miss the throws jones did, or lose lamb like banks did (or take bad angle like nubin did).
they did however decide to play slayton with a bad hand and the worst ball security of any WR i can ever remember.
they did decide to let julian love go over a modest amount of money for no apparent reason.
they did let barkley go knowing jones was a limited QB who was helped by a run first offense greatly in 2022. and replaced him with a fumbler.
little things in the NFL add up to losses. games are decided by very small margins. it is time to hire someone in the organization at some level who understands that and isn't a first time relearning that lesson in front of us.
The Love and Barkley thing are both completely false
They offered Love a bjg contract during the bye week in the 22 season, he turned it down and ended up getting less from Seattle
Saquon they kffered more money TWICE and he turned it down both times
The $$$ just had to go to Darius Slayton. We NEED this guy. Who needs a Pro Bowl S and team leader when u can sign a soft WR with bad hands who shrinks in big moments?
Done with this regime.
He is actually doing all the things most said needs to happen shake the rust off, get better each week, take what the D is giving up, place the ball were the receiver has a chance to generate some YAC and last but not least better pocket awareness.
The good news is the team overall is improving. Hopefully they continue and becomes a team that can make the QB look better than they are. A rookie QB will need that so will any mid-tier journeyman QB.
DT, QB, CB, WR and RB so far are the biggest needs.
The $$$ just had to go to Darius Slayton. We NEED this guy. Who needs a Pro Bowl S and team leader when u can sign a soft WR with bad hands who shrinks in big moments?
Done with this regime.
They signed Okereke, Slayton is on a minimum deal
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Outside from Nabers I think only Slayton brought in a reception of over 20 yards, we created none in the running game and Jones missed on a lot of deep shots. In the modern NFL you can’t score points moving the ball at 4 yards per clip. Part of this is Jones and part is the weapons, but the result is 5 field goals vs 0 touchdowns.
This play did not result in a TD, or even a catchable pass.
That's almost as bad as that one Trubisky picture.
He is actually doing all the things most said needs to happen shake the rust off, get better each week, take what the D is giving up, place the ball were the receiver has a chance to generate some YAC and last but not least better pocket awareness.
The good news is the team overall is improving. Hopefully they continue and becomes a team that can make the QB look better than they are. A rookie QB will need that so will any mid-tier journeyman QB.
DT, QB, CB, WR and RB so far are the biggest needs.
They’re averaging less points than last year with a better oline and Nabers. They are not improving and neither is Jones.
Not mentioned here or anywhere, but Thibs had a pretty good game. Nobody likes him either so he won't get much praise.
Concerned we have t seen an impact play out of Nubin yet as he’s played every snap.