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Cowherd: Giants have components of a Super Bowl team

Sean : 9/27/2024 10:08 am
I just watched this and figured I'd post an alternative view point. I linked the comments which start his game recap:

-Daboll is coaching his ass off with a limited QB. NYG dominated time of possession.
-NYG now has a serviceable OL with a strong left tackle.
-NYG now has a legitimate WR1.
-NYG now has a strong defensive line.

He goes onto say they would be in the Super Bowl bubble if they had Josh Allen. They need more juice in the running game but can get that in the draft. The main point is they need a QB.

His opinion is that ownership influenced the Jones contract and Daboll is managing it the best he can.

Summarizing, with a QB he feels this team has the important pieces of what makes a Super Bowl team.

I'm not saying I agree with this, just a different perspective this morning.
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They need  
callmecrazy : 9/27/2024 10:10 am : link
a great QB to be Super Bowl contenders. I think with a decent one they are a playoff team.
Meh  
JaxGiant : 9/27/2024 10:10 am : link
I can kind of see it I guess. I think they have some really good pieces in place but they're limited by the QB and the play calling right now. Daboll just needs to go back to coaching and let Kafka deal with the offense.

Would like to see us pick up a decent veteran in the offseason and would have no problems letting Devito come in this season and finish things out.
Far from a strong D line  
Dave in PA : 9/27/2024 10:12 am : link
they have a single great defensive tackle in Dex, a good not great player in KT that could still take another step forward, and a ghost in Burns.
IMO  
SirLoinOfBeef : 9/27/2024 10:12 am : link
anyone who still doesn't believe that Mara was the driver behind the Jones contract is just fooling themselves.

I don't see it  
Essex : 9/27/2024 10:13 am : link
I see Dex, Nabers, and Thomas and a few other good (but not great players) like Thibs. It is a start but "components" of a super bowl--yeah, no.
I don’t agree with his opinion on the QB position  
Chris684 : 9/27/2024 10:15 am : link
Daniel Jones is Schoen and Daboll’s QB.

I forgive them for 22 and 23, I get that they had some success with him and wanted to see more. I can forgive the contract.

All that said, they had every opportunity this offseason, whether it was citing the injuries or the subpar 23 season, to pull the trigger and move on.

Some available options included Fields, Darnold, Nix, Penix, McCarthy or going all in for Maye which they obviously didn’t.

It’s laughable to me that anyone’s take this morning is that Daboll is doing a good job. Let alone a guy getting paid for his opinion in Cowherd.

Why are we getting worse each year then?
For once I actually agree with this idiot  
PatersonPlank : 9/27/2024 10:15 am : link
We are close, and a real NFL QB could push us over the top. Our talent has definitely been upgraded
 
SFGFNCGiantsFan : 9/27/2024 10:16 am : link
If this team had a QB, we might win the NFC East.

MEANWHILE WE ARE YEAR SIX(!!!!!!!!!) INTO THE DANIEL JONES EXPERIMENT AND I HAVE TO READ OUR HEAD COACH THRIW ROSE PEDALS HIS WAY AFTER LAST NIGHT. WHEN DIES THIS INSANITY END?!?!?!??
they have some nice stuff on defense  
bigbluehoya : 9/27/2024 10:17 am : link
but still a little bit light.

At a minimum, They're short 1-2 interior DL players, 1 LB, and a stud CB.

We do have some pieces and can win a few games  
56goat : 9/27/2024 10:18 am : link
but we do need upgrades to contend - QB for sure, CBs, WR, DL, LB, etc. Maybe one of the TEs develops, but right now they are a poor group. Nabers has the goods but he can't do it alone.
RE: Far from a strong D line  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2024 10:21 am : link
In comment 16627417 Dave in PA said:
Quote:
they have a single great defensive tackle in Dex, a good not great player in KT that could still take another step forward, and a ghost in Burns.


Burns is a ghost because they are constantly doubling and chipping him, same with Dex..

You know how Thibs had a good game last night? because they were froced to block him 1 on 1 with a rookie..
He’s probably not totally wrong  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2024 10:22 am : link
Look at the Cinci team Burrow and Chase took to a Super Bowl
It's  
Toth029 : 9/27/2024 10:25 am : link
Josh Allen who is the best player this year so far, much less the best quarterback. Why is he being used as an example? An elite QB will elevate the team around them, no argument for anyone there. Not a new story. Now say this offense has Jalen Hurts or Tua, are they SB? No, they're not. This team still has a ways to go and absolutely, QB in the draft next year is apart of that.
RE: For once I actually agree with this idiot  
MotownGIANTS : 9/27/2024 10:31 am : link
In comment 16627430 PatersonPlank said:
Quote:
We are close, and a real NFL QB could push us over the top. Our talent has definitely been upgraded


Yup .... DT compliment, QB, CB, WR & RB. The 1st 3 can be had in FA and with our draft picks (starting quality).
________  
I am Ninja : 9/27/2024 10:34 am : link
The most important thing Jones lacks is he doesn't make anyone around him better. I dont think you need to be Mahomes or Allen or whoever you wanna say are the top 5-6 guys to elevate the guys around you. Obviously that next tier isnt going to do it as well or as across the board as those top tier guys, but Jones just doesnt at all. If it was gonna happen, he would have demonstrated it last night. Fairly clean pockets, healthy roster, vulnerable defense. Its just not there.
We also need another corner kinda desperately and safety  
Andy in Halifax : 9/27/2024 10:34 am : link
looks promising but still unproven. We might really need two corners. We also need a better interior DL but obviously have the star piece.

TE is still a weak spot but hopefully Johnson emerges as a receiving option soon.

That ignores QB but that's been beaten to death.
RE: I don't see it  
Breeze_94 : 9/27/2024 10:35 am : link
In comment 16627424 Essex said:
Quote:
I see Dex, Nabers, and Thomas and a few other good (but not great players) like Thibs. It is a start but "components" of a super bowl--yeah, no.


Dex, Nabers, and Thomas are all elite at their positions. Not many teams can say they have 3 elite guys. Burns isn’t elite, but he’s an impact player nonetheless. Okereke is very good. Thibs is good, McFadden, Pinnock all good. I like Runyan, Schmitz, and Eluemunor- all are solid starters. Plus the other rookies, Nubin and Phillips.

They probably have more talent than Buffalo does right now, outside of the QB and RB. Better weapons, LT, DL, LB’s, and safeties. The rest of the OL is pretty much on par with Buffalo,

Assuming they go out and get a QB r1, the only hole they’d have to prioritize in FA is CB (lots of intriguing names next year). The other positions where they could use an upgrade (RB, RG, IDL, and possibly TE) are easier to fill with day 2 picks or affordable FA contracts.
no shit sherlock......  
BillKo : 9/27/2024 10:35 am : link
....Josh Allen is an elite NFL talent. At times he looks like a man among boys.

These guys are tough to find.
after 3 years and 3 top 10 draft picks they better have components  
Eric on Li : 9/27/2024 10:37 am : link
not to mention having inherited thomas and lawrence.

yes they have some good players, but until the coaching proves they can develop players better they are missing the biggest component of a playoff team no less super bowl team - being a well run organization.
RE: It's  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2024 10:37 am : link
In comment 16627466 Toth029 said:
Quote:
Josh Allen who is the best player this year so far, much less the best quarterback. Why is he being used as an example? An elite QB will elevate the team around them, no argument for anyone there. Not a new story. Now say this offense has Jalen Hurts or Tua, are they SB? No, they're not. This team still has a ways to go and absolutely, QB in the draft next year is apart of that.


Jalen Hurts and Tua elevate this team though. Tua would have hit at least one of those deep passes.
He’s not too far off  
The_Boss : 9/27/2024 10:37 am : link
I said last night that if we had a competent O, we very well “could” be 4-0 right now. The D has been good enough to warrant that record, but they are getting zero help from the offense.
our DL blows......  
BillKo : 9/27/2024 10:38 am : link
....but I will say, I have no idea what the strategy is.

We seem so light on the defensive line front.
RE: IMO  
BlueVinnie : 9/27/2024 10:41 am : link
In comment 16627420 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
anyone who still doesn't believe that Mara was the driver behind the Jones contract is just fooling themselves.

I believe you are 100% correct. I've been saying this since the moment the contract was announced.
If Jalen Hurts was the QB  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2024 10:43 am : link
even with his lousy decision making they would be at minimum a playoff team..
RE: RE: It's  
Toth029 : 9/27/2024 10:44 am : link
In comment 16627520 ajr2456 said:
Quote:
In comment 16627466 Toth029 said:


Quote:


Josh Allen who is the best player this year so far, much less the best quarterback. Why is he being used as an example? An elite QB will elevate the team around them, no argument for anyone there. Not a new story. Now say this offense has Jalen Hurts or Tua, are they SB? No, they're not. This team still has a ways to go and absolutely, QB in the draft next year is apart of that.



Jalen Hurts and Tua elevate this team though. Tua would have hit at least one of those deep passes.


Tua and Jalen are in the best situations, aren't they? Tua operates in a scheme based offense with two of the fastest receivers in the league. Jalen has a stout line for both pass pro and run blocking, and three excellent receivers in Brown, Smith, and Goedert. He's struggling this year despite the rich supporting cast. They aren't in Josh Allen's stratosphere and neither makes the current Giants a top team. Philly aren't a top team and they have better talent across the board.
Daniel Jones  
Paulie Walnuts : 9/27/2024 10:44 am : link
Doesn't have IT. I can't quantity IT. And I know I don't have IT myself. But I have seen players with IT and he doesn't. I'm done with him tank the rest of the season with him then release him
I Can't Believe I Actually Agree With Cowherd  
BlueVinnie : 9/27/2024 10:46 am : link
I'm not quite buying that they would be in the Super Bowl "bubble". I think there would still be things to be cleaned up but they'd be close and we'd have hope.

Cowherd's other points are solid.
To Cowherd's point...  
Chris684 : 9/27/2024 10:49 am : link
I'm also just a few million shy of being a multi-millionaire
RE: Daniel Jones  
BlueVinnie : 9/27/2024 10:50 am : link
In comment 16627543 Paulie Walnuts said:
Quote:
Doesn't have IT. I can't quantity IT. And I know I don't have IT myself. But I have seen players with IT and he doesn't. I'm done with him tank the rest of the season with him then release him

Yep, to paraphrase a famous quote regarding the definition of porn;
"I can't define what "IT" is but I know it when I see it".
I'm sure Daboll would coach this team...  
bw in dc : 9/27/2024 10:50 am : link
differently if he had a force multiplier like Allen. Personally, I think Daboll has reapplied the training wheels to Jones and is trying to replicate 2022 but with a little more spice with Nabers.

But this is one of the few times Cowherd has something right. On offense, we have a legit WR1, a legit pro bowl LT, and an OL stepping it up in pass protection. And an interesting mix of RB skills.

And on D, we do have two players who are legit disruption factors in Sexy and Burns.

That is a lot of good pieces.
kind of a stupid statement  
KDavies : 9/27/2024 10:53 am : link
if the Giants had Josh Allen, they'd be a Super Bowl contender. He's one of the 2 best QBs in the game. It's like saying with Michael Jordan, X team would have contended for the NBA championship. No shit.
RE: I'm sure Daboll would coach this team...  
BillKo : 9/27/2024 10:53 am : link
In comment 16627562 bw in dc said:
Quote:
differently if he had a force multiplier like Allen. Personally, I think Daboll has reapplied the training wheels to Jones and is trying to replicate 2022 but with a little more spice with Nabers.

But this is one of the few times Cowherd has something right. On offense, we have a legit WR1, a legit pro bowl LT, and an OL stepping it up in pass protection. And an interesting mix of RB skills.

And on D, we do have two players who are legit disruption factors in Sexy and Burns.

That is a lot of good pieces.


So GM is doing decently?
as others have noted  
LG in NYC : 9/27/2024 10:53 am : link
sort of easy to say we'd be a great team with an elite QB... you can say that about most teams.

but guess what, it ain't easy to find an elite QB... how many are there in the league right now? 3?

I think we'd be a much better team with an upgrade to one of the Tier 2 QBs (Hurts, Burrow, Dak, Herbert,etc) but how many SB's have they won?
This is more ifs and buts  
Blueworm : 9/27/2024 10:56 am : link
But from someone with a pedigree.

Meanwhile, the reality is they will start considering the injury guarantee.

Let me guess, not until mathematically eliminated.
Wrong on pedigree  
Blueworm : 9/27/2024 10:57 am : link
Thought it was Collinsworth.
I will say this again (from another thread)  
jvm52106 : 9/27/2024 10:57 am : link
Schoen's comments in Hard Knocks that even Mahomes would get killed behind last years line now rears it's head as Mahomes with this group would have Gmen at 3-1 or maybe even 4-0.. Last night a more fully functional starting QB has Gmen win by at least 10 maybe more.
RE: RE: I'm sure Daboll would coach this team...  
bw in dc : 9/27/2024 10:58 am : link
In comment 16627571 BillKo said:
Quote:
In comment 16627562 bw in dc said:


Quote:


differently if he had a force multiplier like Allen. Personally, I think Daboll has reapplied the training wheels to Jones and is trying to replicate 2022 but with a little more spice with Nabers.

But this is one of the few times Cowherd has something right. On offense, we have a legit WR1, a legit pro bowl LT, and an OL stepping it up in pass protection. And an interesting mix of RB skills.

And on D, we do have two players who are legit disruption factors in Sexy and Burns.

That is a lot of good pieces.



So GM is doing decently?


Let's say that is accurate. Are we really good with decent?
If we agree that there is talent here  
nygiants16 : 9/27/2024 11:03 am : link
and with a decent QB this team is a playoff team, then why are we running the GM and coach out of town?
RE: RE: RE: It's  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2024 11:03 am : link
In comment 16627542 Toth029 said:
Quote:
In comment 16627520 ajr2456 said:


Quote:


In comment 16627466 Toth029 said:


Quote:


Josh Allen who is the best player this year so far, much less the best quarterback. Why is he being used as an example? An elite QB will elevate the team around them, no argument for anyone there. Not a new story. Now say this offense has Jalen Hurts or Tua, are they SB? No, they're not. This team still has a ways to go and absolutely, QB in the draft next year is apart of that.



Jalen Hurts and Tua elevate this team though. Tua would have hit at least one of those deep passes.



Tua and Jalen are in the best situations, aren't they? Tua operates in a scheme based offense with two of the fastest receivers in the league. Jalen has a stout line for both pass pro and run blocking, and three excellent receivers in Brown, Smith, and Goedert. He's struggling this year despite the rich supporting cast. They aren't in Josh Allen's stratosphere and neither makes the current Giants a top team. Philly aren't a top team and they have better talent across the board.


The Giants have an improved line and a guy who is looking like an elite WR.

Hurts and Tua’s situations are no longer an excuse.

Swap Jones for either of those QBs the Giants are 3-1 at least and winning the division.

Stop with the excuses.
Stroud situation  
Blue Baas : 9/27/2024 11:06 am : link
I think the situation if much more QB-ready than it had been. When Daboll and Schoen took over I think a 1st round QB would be hoping the Giants don't pick him, but I think now it looks like they're setup to build something great.
RE: If we agree that there is talent here  
PatersonPlank : 9/27/2024 11:06 am : link
In comment 16627590 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and with a decent QB this team is a playoff team, then why are we running the GM and coach out of town?


I'm not, I'm ok with them and think they are doing as well as they can. The team is definitely getting stronger. The people who want them gone are the ones who only focus on the QB and say they haven't changed anything there. However its a tough trade off. If we offered the moon and sun to trade up for Maye/Daniels, we wouldn't have Nabers, Nubin, and lots of future picks. If we had picked JJM or Nix, we wouldn't have Nabers, etc. Next season lets get a vet QB and draft a top college guy
RE: as others have noted  
BlueVinnie : 9/27/2024 11:08 am : link
In comment 16627572 LG in NYC said:
Quote:
sort of easy to say we'd be a great team with an elite QB... you can say that about most teams.

but guess what, it ain't easy to find an elite QB... how many are there in the league right now? 3?

I think we'd be a much better team with an upgrade to one of the Tier 2 QBs (Hurts, Burrow, Dak, Herbert,etc) but how many SB's have they won?

I've read on BBI many times in prior seasons that "no QB" could succeed with this team. I am absolutely certain that there are still people that feel that way here. It's not Daniel's fault. The narrative now has just changed. Instead of the OL or the WRs, it's all on Daboll, it's all on the drops, etc. Incredibly, there are still a more than small number of Jones believers here.
RE: I will say this again (from another thread)  
TyreeHelmet : 9/27/2024 11:09 am : link
In comment 16627582 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Schoen's comments in Hard Knocks that even Mahomes would get killed behind last years line now rears it's head as Mahomes with this group would have Gmen at 3-1 or maybe even 4-0.. Last night a more fully functional starting QB has Gmen win by at least 10 maybe more.


Such an insane comment to make. They should have ripped the band aid off and cut Jones in the offseason.

Winston, Darnold, Fields- should have just tried to find someone else. Jones isn't it- another wasted season.
RE: I will say this again (from another thread)  
Mike from Ohio : 9/27/2024 11:09 am : link
In comment 16627582 jvm52106 said:
Quote:
Schoen's comments in Hard Knocks that even Mahomes would get killed behind last years line now rears it's head as Mahomes with this group would have Gmen at 3-1 or maybe even 4-0.. Last night a more fully functional starting QB has Gmen win by at least 10 maybe more.


This + 1,000.

That game is a win with an NFL average starter at QB. Heck it was almost winnable without one!

Jones is an anchor on this offense that the front office can't quit.
RE: If we agree that there is talent here  
Chris684 : 9/27/2024 11:09 am : link
In comment 16627590 nygiants16 said:
Quote:
and with a decent QB this team is a playoff team, then why are we running the GM and coach out of town?


There is SOME talent here.

2 questions for you though.

First, Why don't Schoen and Daboll own the fact that there is no QB here? And if you do think they own it, that will go a long way to answering the question you asked.

Second, why are Schoen and Daboll's teams getting worse each season? They went from 9 wins, to 6 wins and I'd say 3 wins seems just about right where they'll be in the end. Why?

RE: I don't see it  
UConn4523 : 9/27/2024 11:17 am : link
In comment 16627424 Essex said:
Quote:
I see Dex, Nabers, and Thomas and a few other good (but not great players) like Thibs. It is a start but "components" of a super bowl--yeah, no.


I don’t think you realize or will admit, how much our ceiling is capped with Jones. We have much better team than our record dictates, it’s really obvious IMO. This is an above .500 team with just a solid QB.
I’m not convinced  
GiantGrit : 9/27/2024 11:17 am : link
Jones gives them a better chance to win than Lock & DeVito.
RE: I’m not convinced  
ajr2456 : 9/27/2024 11:18 am : link
In comment 16627631 GiantGrit said:
Quote:
Jones gives them a better chance to win than Lock & DeVito.


Last year showed he doesn’t give them a better chance than DeVito. Lock is TBD
RE: IMO  
GiantGrit : 9/27/2024 11:18 am : link
In comment 16627420 SirLoinOfBeef said:
Quote:
anyone who still doesn't believe that Mara was the driver behind the Jones contract is just fooling themselves.


Even if you believe this, Schoen’s handling of keeping him around has proved horrendous.
need another corner  
bc4life : 9/27/2024 11:19 am : link
another hell raiser at DT or NT and a bruising running back. Think that would make a difference.

also players and coach need to continue to improve.
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