If we had Barkley

That's the main reason he is not still here.

They do need a big running back who runs big

They loaded up on the run last night, due to their past two games on defense (Dallas).

Giants had to win the game via the pass last night, and between the 20's were fine, just sucked in the redzone.

And of course the deep balls could have helped with cheap scores.

Barkley wouldn't have any difference IMO.

Think bigger.

Breaks more tackles or at least has a bigger break tackle percentage than Saquon does. He's a good receiver and protects the QB well, too. While he is limited with breakaway speed, you can do worse.

I do think Tracy is a viable runner/receiver but I feel like they needed a power back in there instead of a guy like Eric Gray.

blueprint for every D from now on. DJ can throw 5 yd outs to his hearts content for all they care.

they probably dont have the new Oline or no Burns

Where defenses neutralized Barkley and the Giants weren’t good?

Same thing would have happened last night.

In comment 16627648 BillKo said:

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They loaded up on the run last night, due to their past two games on defense (Dallas). Giants had to win the game via the pass last night, and between the 20's were fine, just sucked in the redzone. And of course the deep balls could have helped with cheap scores. Barkley wouldn't have any difference IMO.

He’s had plenty of games where there weren’t holes and he ran well. Singletary left plays on the field that a better RB wouldn’t have, IMO.

who can hit receivers in stride, throw an accurate deep ball, and throw receivers open. That will solve the majority of our issues on offense. Other teams fearing deep ball accuracy will pull back off the line of scrimmage and will benefit the running game.

he probably would have been in the blue tent all night. Would Barkley have told Robinson, Slayton, and Nabers to not drop balls? Let it go...

Fake to Barkley running left the defense moves and then throw right is open.

Fake to the current group of RBs nobody cares huge difference.
It also makes Jones a better runner. We would be 3-1.

In comment 16627687 Chris in Philly said:

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he probably would have been in the blue tent all night. Would Barkley have told Robinson, Slayton, and Nabers to not drop balls? Let it go...

(if he was healthy) would have run almost exactly the same as Singletary on *most* of the run plays. And Jones possibly would have been on the sidelines because Singletary looked better in blitz pickup, but there would have been one or two plays where Saquon's special skills took over and he would have broke free and possibly took it to the house. It does not seem like Singletary has that in him.

In comment 16627658 nygiants16 said:

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they probably dont have the new Oline or no Burns

Thats ridiculous. We would have had Barkley and McKInney. Who by the way may be the ofensive and defensive MVPs as of today. Another draft pick, and money left over. Had the same O line. All for a mediocre at best edge rusher.

The Giants acquired Hodgins and played more 11 personnel, they became a better overall offense. Of course they were limited as they had Hodgins and James as their go to's. That said,

First eight games of 2022: 20.8 PPG
Last eight games of 2022: 23.25

Not included is Week 17 with Davis Webb and Brieda/Brightwell starting.

the Giants probably would be missing other players like the OL or Burns.

years ago (like it seemed we wanted to but failed), then we'd have this same team with Barkley and some other QB. That would be better

There was nowhere to run, Barkley is only as good as his OL. Remember when he had 9 carries for 14 yards against the Saints last year? Basically the same performance.

In comment 16627695 pjcas18 said:

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(if he was healthy) would have run almost exactly the same as Singletary on *most* of the run plays. And Jones possibly would have been on the sidelines because Singletary looked better in blitz pickup, but there would have been one or two plays where Saquon's special skills took over and he would have broke free and possibly took it to the house. It does not seem like Singletary has that in him.

singletary did have a very nice pick up yesterday but the last 2 years barkley had been one of the best rbs in blitz pickup, better than singletary. the rest is pretty much right.

though i do think defenses also constantly felt the need to pay more attention to barkley because of the fear of him taking one to the house. he hit 22 mph on his td run for philly last week and next gen currently has him as the 2nd fastest measured ball carrier on a play this year.

Not as good as Barkley. I want to see more of Tracy.

If we had Barkley we would probably be 0-4 because we would be trotting out a shittier OL that would have gotten manhandled by Cleveland.

No.

In comment 16627706 US1 Giants said:

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the Giants probably would be missing other players like the OL or Burns.

They could have paid Barkley and McKinney and a draft pick and had money left over instead of signing a mediocre edge rusher. And would have had the offensive and defensive players of the year right now, and maybe win one of those games they lost. GM was played. He has no clue

In comment 16627722 Danny Kanell said:

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If we had Barkley we would probably be 0-4 because we would be trotting out a shittier OL that would have gotten manhandled by Cleveland.

Oline deals were all made before they decided on Barkley. Instead of Burns, same Oline, Barkley, Mckinney a high draft pick and money left over. GM is awful. Thought he outsmarted Carolina.

And he still shouldn’t be on this team nor would he make a significant difference

The Giants should have signed him in 2022 and traded him last year before the deadline for a draft pick

The problem is that Daniel Jones isnt good enough to make defenses scheme for him

So they can put 8-9 in box to stop Saquon as they did. They can put extra guys back to stop Nabers going deep. They can blitz the OL. They can close off Jones running lanes. They often do more than one.

Jones has zero ability to make any defense pay for any of these choices.

They will always exploit our weaknesses or take away our strengths or play to theirs. Our QB will not or cannot exploit any of it to make them stop. That’s why this is perpetual and ever changing. Oh its the weapons! Oh its the OL! Oh its the playcalling! Now its the running game.

the Giants would have won 35-20. The Giants problem is their horrible QB.

The offensive line got zero push. No running back is going to succeed when the line gets no push. Only Tiki, east-west type runner, would have succeeded and Barkley is not that type of runner. So no, Barkley would have failed.

You do understand if we re-sign Barkley, we have last year's offensive line?

I'm confident that Mara's takeaway from last night is the Giants need a dynamic running back, and they need to draft him high...

In comment 16627783 Go Terps said:

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I'm confident that Mara's takeaway from last night is the Giants need a dynamic running back, and they need to draft him high...

Ha ha, probably (and sadly).

In comment 16627771 Eric from BBI said:

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You do understand if we re-sign Barkley, we have last year's offensive line?

that is not even remotely true.

singletary and barkley have the exact same cap hit this year. if they wanted him back there were easy ways to do it even if they didnt fudge the numbers as much as philly did.

drew lock's cap hit is bigger than both. why did they need to spend $5m on him vs trading for fields or willis or howell at near league minimum?

In comment 16627794 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 16627771 Eric from BBI said: Quote: You do understand if we re-sign Barkley, we have last year's offensive line? that is not even remotely true. singletary and barkley have the exact same cap hit this year. if they wanted him back there were easy ways to do it even if they didnt fudge the numbers as much as philly did. drew lock's cap hit is bigger than both. why did they need to spend $5m on him vs trading for fields or willis or howell at near league minimum?

Or going with DeVito as backup and drafting a third in late rounds. Lock sucks.

they are $50k apart.



but hey, at least schoen and daboll were considerate of their successors' future cap space.

In comment 16627794 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 16627771 Eric from BBI said: Quote: You do understand if we re-sign Barkley, we have last year's offensive line? that is not even remotely true. singletary and barkley have the exact same cap hit this year. if they wanted him back there were easy ways to do it even if they didnt fudge the numbers as much as philly did. drew lock's cap hit is bigger than both. why did they need to spend $5m on him vs trading for fields or willis or howell at near league minimum?

Not according to Hard Knocks. But why believe the GM?

In comment 16627807 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16627794 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 16627771 Eric from BBI said: Quote: You do understand if we re-sign Barkley, we have last year's offensive line? that is not even remotely true. singletary and barkley have the exact same cap hit this year. if they wanted him back there were easy ways to do it even if they didnt fudge the numbers as much as philly did. drew lock's cap hit is bigger than both. why did they need to spend $5m on him vs trading for fields or willis or howell at near league minimum? Not according to Hard Knocks. But why believe the GM?

this is a numbers talk bullshit walks situation. the numbers are what they are.

i believe the gm that he didnt want barkley back and didnt think he was worth as much as he got.

i also believe the gm was wrong about that.

if he thinks the new OL is what cost him Barkley, he's a moron.

bold emphasis added by me.

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Dan Duggan @DDuggan21 This nails it, especially on the financial points in 2 and 3. Saquon and Singletary have the same cap hit this year. So the Giants obviously *could* have paid Saquon. But they have a different cap and team-building philosophy than Philly right now. Whether that’s right or wrong is what will be debated endlessly on this app. I’m firmly in the don’t pay a RB camp. But it’s going to be a LONG year if every game Saquon plays is going to be a referendum on the decision to let him walk. I’m sure Schoen — and especially Mara — wishes he signed with Houston or Chicago or whoever instead of Philly. But what’s done is done. What matters now is how the team Schoen assembled performs

here's the justin pugh tweet he was replying to which is also dead on to this exact specific point re the false choice between OL or RB:

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Justin Pugh @JustinPugh Ok @Giants fans eventually we’re going to have a talk about all of this. 1. Blaming only the Giants OL for why they shouldn’t re-signed Saquon is the dumbest take. The entire team has struggled the last decade. 3 GMs, 4 Head Coaches, the list goes on. Trust me, I’ve been apart of majority of it. 2. Salary cap isn’t the real reason either. The Eagles figured out a way to pay the entire team and Saquon. We could’ve signed Runyan, traded for Burns and paid Saquon. Don’t let that narrative live any longer. 3. The reason Saquon isn’t a Giant is purely philosophy. Schoen wasn’t willing to pay a RB that much that is OK. He was hired to build the team to win. We made our bed now we lay in it. Can’t be mad at Saquon either, he wanted more and got it. END RANT

to be able to add a good player without having to sacrifice one. There are teams in the league with a multitude of good players who actually win games.

I don't know what some of you are seeing. Singletary is not nearly as good as Barkley and everyone should know that.
There's a good reason he came cheap at 4 mil per, so you are getting what we paid for.
Giants have a better passing game with Nabers now, that would've been a great dynamic to have both of those guys as playmaker and game breakers. Now all you have is Nabers.
Did you see Barkley make the difference in that Saint game?
That's what we used to get out of him. He was worth the loot.

Says would not have this OLine if we kept barkley how about we dont get Burns instead I would rather have that trade off at this point

Pundits say all the time they can find the money when they need to, well it sounds like we were like 1 million away from getting it done, and if Schoen couldn't get it done he should've traded him out of the division. Either way it falls to him. Once he decided not to trade him, he had to figure out a way to still maximize him as an asset whether he signs or put the tag on him again. You absolutely cannot let him walk for nothing to a divisional rival, Just from a PR perspective that was just awful and he cannot get a pass for that.

to pay for a functional oline and still pay a franchise QB and a #1 wide and other players on that roster?
Maybe Roseman is just better at his job then Schoen is cause he somehow found a way to pay Barkley.
Why is when we have to pay for needs it's at the sacrifice of other positions?
A lot of the money is going to Lawrence, Thomas, Jones and Burns...other than those guys we aren't paying top dollar for anybody else. I think we are only being told that cause teams like SF find away and they have way more high end talents.

we'd still suck and he'd probably be injured by now. Not the answer unless he can throw a pretty deep ball.

In comment 16627909 56goat said:

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we'd still suck and he'd probably be injured by now. Not the answer unless he can throw a pretty deep ball.

if you think any player would be worse here than elsewhere, who is to blame for that?

or do you think any players are intentionally playing worse or getting hurt?

In comment 16627705 Toth029 said:

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The Giants acquired Hodgins and played more 11 personnel, they became a better overall offense. Of course they were limited as they had Hodgins and James as their go to's. That said, First eight games of 2022: 20.8 PPG Last eight games of 2022: 23.25 Not included is Week 17 with Davis Webb and Brieda/Brightwell starting.

The small sample size gets skewed by the Colts game.

In losses: 21 ppg
In wins: 29 ppg

The second half 2022 offense wasn’t good. They averaged barely over 2 TDs a game.

when free agency ended. They had to restructure contracts to just have operating room.

If the Giants had re-signed Barkley to a deal equal or greater than the Eagles gave him, someone doesn't get signed.

OG Jon Runyan, Jr. (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $30 million)
OG/OT Jermaine Eluemunor (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $14 million)

RB Saquon Barkley (Signed by Eagles; 3-Years, $37.75 million)

For those who said don't give Burns the contract, fine. But who is your edge rusher then? Ojulari?

that was the trade off.
we keep 2nd and 5th too and had more draft capital.


but its all moot.


every single person in that building knows we are 3-1 right now if tyrod starts these 4 games.

In comment 16628080 Eric from BBI said:

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when free agency ended. They had to restructure contracts to just have operating room. If the Giants had re-signed Barkley to a deal equal or greater than the Eagles gave him, someone doesn't get signed. OG Jon Runyan, Jr. (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $30 million) OG/OT Jermaine Eluemunor (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $14 million) RB Saquon Barkley (Signed by Eagles; 3-Years, $37.75 million) For those who said don't give Burns the contract, fine. But who is your edge rusher then? Ojulari?

his cap number is the same as singletary this year so what you are saying is just not true.

and there are literally infinite ways to create more cap room any time a team needs it. just as they did when the signed greg van roten 4 months later to a contract at a similar $3m cap #.

at least blame not wanting his future money on the books. that's at least an accurate explanation as opposed to a plainly false one. why do you think the giants couldnt have afforded to carry a cap # $50k higher than singletary's this year?

Switch Jones with Dak and they win.

would do well on this team with it's construction, arguably not as well as he's doing with Philly, because of the lack of ability of our QB to stretch the field, and that Hurts has been able to do that.

But it was the right decision to let him walk.

Here's what I want to say to all those people that said he's not as explosive and he's lost a step, yada yada. Week 3 he his 21.66 mph on his 65-yard TD run, the 2nd fastest by any ball carrier so far this season. He is still plenty explosive.

that 21.66 mph run would've ranked tied for the 9th fastest run of any ball carrier last year, and 5th fastest by a RB. Achane had 2 runs slightly faster, Chase Brown had the fastest at just over 22 mph, and Henry had one at 21.68 last season.

Mostert's fastest run last year would've ranked just below Barkley, and nobody questions Mostert's speed.

In comment 16628115 Eric on Li said:

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In comment 16628080 Eric from BBI said: Quote: when free agency ended. They had to restructure contracts to just have operating room. If the Giants had re-signed Barkley to a deal equal or greater than the Eagles gave him, someone doesn't get signed. OG Jon Runyan, Jr. (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $30 million) OG/OT Jermaine Eluemunor (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $14 million) RB Saquon Barkley (Signed by Eagles; 3-Years, $37.75 million) For those who said don't give Burns the contract, fine. But who is your edge rusher then? Ojulari? his cap number is the same as singletary this year so what you are saying is just not true. and there are literally infinite ways to create more cap room any time a team needs it. just as they did when the signed greg van roten 4 months later to a contract at a similar $3m cap #. at least blame not wanting his future money on the books. that's at least an accurate explanation as opposed to a plainly false one. why do you think the giants couldnt have afforded to carry a cap # $50k higher than singletary's this year?

RB Devin Singletary (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $16.5 million)
RB Saquon Barkley (Signed by Eagles; 3-Years, $37.75 million)

In comment 16628132 Eric from BBI said:

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In comment 16628115 Eric on Li said: Quote: In comment 16628080 Eric from BBI said: Quote: when free agency ended. They had to restructure contracts to just have operating room. If the Giants had re-signed Barkley to a deal equal or greater than the Eagles gave him, someone doesn't get signed. OG Jon Runyan, Jr. (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $30 million) OG/OT Jermaine Eluemunor (Signed by Giants; 2-Years, $14 million) RB Saquon Barkley (Signed by Eagles; 3-Years, $37.75 million) For those who said don't give Burns the contract, fine. But who is your edge rusher then? Ojulari? his cap number is the same as singletary this year so what you are saying is just not true. and there are literally infinite ways to create more cap room any time a team needs it. just as they did when the signed greg van roten 4 months later to a contract at a similar $3m cap #. at least blame not wanting his future money on the books. that's at least an accurate explanation as opposed to a plainly false one. why do you think the giants couldnt have afforded to carry a cap # $50k higher than singletary's this year? RB Devin Singletary (Signed by Giants; 3-Years, $16.5 million) RB Saquon Barkley (Signed by Eagles; 3-Years, $37.75 million)

This. Schoen did the right thing for the future of this team. A team that is not going to be a serious playoff contender until 2026 more than likely, if they get the right QB in the draft next year. That will be Saquon's age 29 season. They are doing the right thing in terms of building the foundation for the future. There will be other good backs to come out of the draft next year and the year after, and Tyrone Tracy and even Eric Gray could assert themselves. I'm particularly excited about Tracy's potential. He has as much a chance of any rookie RB in this class to be a factor back.

Dallas would have taken the same approach they implemented last night:

Sell out on the run, and make Daniel Jones beat us with TDs.

In comment 16628150 bw in dc said:

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Dallas would have taken the same approach they implemented last night: Sell out on the run, and make Daniel Jones beat us with TDs.

Yup.

we just stink at running and made it easy for them. In years past it was Barkley and the clownshow at WR. Now it’s an upgraded Wr corps and pedestrian run game. Simply put, we are still one dimensional and easy to defend.

Players walk and we are supposed to get better?
It's like we've been rebuilding for over a decade now.
Barkley is literally the best back in the league
thru 3 games 351 yds 5.6 ypc and 4 TDS.
To say he doesn't make us better sounds insane to me.
Now the allocation is yet another factor but this 3 years now, so Schoen still doesn't have a handle on the cap?
Let's also factor in just looking at Hard Knocks, Schoen in fact miscalculated the Barkleys market, he didn't think anyone would offer that kind of money and his advisors even questi
oned the decision and identity of not brining Barkley back.I think Schoen played hard ball with one of the best players and lost. This is egg on the face of the organization and he'll have to deal with it.

In comment 16628162 gpat1031 said:

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Players walk and we are supposed to get better? It's like we've been rebuilding for over a decade now. Barkley is literally the best back in the league thru 3 games 351 yds 5.6 ypc and 4 TDS. To say he doesn't make us better sounds insane to me. Now the allocation is yet another factor but this 3 years now, so Schoen still doesn't have a handle on the cap? Let's also factor in just looking at Hard Knocks, Schoen in fact miscalculated the Barkleys market, he didn't think anyone would offer that kind of money and his advisors even questi oned the decision and identity of not brining Barkley back.I think Schoen played hard ball with one of the best players and lost. This is egg on the face of the organization and he'll have to deal with it.

He does have a handle on the cap now, and yes, it was going to take 2 seasons to do that. Part of that was letting go of Saquon.