I'm ready to start anew with a new HC, QB and possibly GM. My choice for our next HC is Mike Vrabel and I hope we can draft our QB in the first round in April (Cam Ward is my QB1 as of today), but I digress.
But unlike previous years (coming off of McAdoodoo, Shurmur and Judge), I'm more hopeful because I do think there is talent on this roster and a solid foundation for us going forward.
Most notably, we finally have a competent, functioning O-Line, which we haven't had in eons. If Van Roten continues to struggle, I hope an improved Evan Neal can step in and the OL would be even better. But regardless, this looks like a decent OL (finally!).
We have a #1 WR...and not just that. This Nabers kid looks special. IDK what's in the water down there in Baton Rouge, but Justin Jefferson, Ja'Marr Chase, and Malik Nabers are top-10 WRs in the NFL RIGHT NOW.
Despite limited production, I still have faith in Thibs and Burns as franchise EDGE guys. And we have the best NG/DT in the NFL in Sexy Dexy. We have two young franchise safeties and an excellent #2 CB in Tae Banks (though I would've preferred Joey Porter Jr. and I said as much at the time, but I digress!)
We're not a QB away, though that will be a HUGE component going forward, but we're better off than we have been and I think there's more talent (and young talent at that) on this team than people realize. This won't be a rebuild like we had in previous years. This will be a retooling.
Because while there is talent, I think Schoen has underperformed all things considered and I think he could've drafted or signed A LOT better than he has. I think whiffing on Evan Neal and using second round picks on high-floor guys like JMS and Nubin were too safe when he should've taken risks.
So while there is some talent, Schoen hasn't maximized the talent. He could've done much better than he's done. But if I'm choosing between Schoen and Daboll, I'd choose Schoen.
[quote] In comment 16627670 Mike from Ohio said:
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of what Schoen is building. Why would you be ok letting him go? It sounds more like you want a new coach and QB and stay on the path they are on.
Because while there is talent, I think Schoen has underperformed all things considered and I think he could've drafted or signed A LOT better than he has. I think whiffing on Evan Neal was horrendous and using second round picks on high-floor guys like JMS and Nubin were too safe when he should've taken risks. Extended Daniel Jones was his biggest mistake.
So while there is some talent, Schoen hasn't maximized the talent. He could've and should've done much better than he's done this far. But if I'm choosing between Schoen and Daboll, I'd choose Schoen.
Several threads have touched upon the young players who could certainly be part of a winning team once the Giants draft (or trade for) a winning QB. Clearly, the cupboard is not bare.
But the other end of roster construction is to anticipate which players may age-out before the QB situation is finally stabilized, especially if you procure one via the Draft and he takes a few years to reach his full potential.
IMO, the red flag here is the Giants current LOS. Jermaine Eluemunor is 30, Greg Van Roten is 34 and while Dexter Lawrence is still only 27 he has taken quite a pounding in his 5+ seasons at a position that isn't known for longevity. (He is also a very wealthy man, so who knows how motivated he is about a third contract on a team that loses so often.)
Joe Schoen didn't help the O-line when he missed with Evan Neal and Joshua Ezeudu, and he has used no premium picks for a DT who could line up next to Dexter and maybe alleviate all the dobule-teaming he gets.
Bottom line: A team obviously gets itself into QB hell when it backs the wrong horse. But missing on a QB has a nasty way of reverberating across the roster, especially with capable older veterans who may age-out before the right QB takes over at the helm.
Looking at what Stroud did last year and what Burrow did for some less than stellar Bengal teams, I think you could say that about every team without a QB. A good QB makes you competitive every year.
I think it's more likely Schoen stays with a new HC.
I think it's more likely Schoen stays with a new HC.
Yeah, maybe. I mentioned this in another thread, if we do decide to go with Belichick and/or Vrabel and go the Patriots/Titans route, there are plenty of FO guys available:
Thomas Dimitroff
Dave Ziegler
Scott Pioli
Jon Robinson
Bob Quinn
Ryan Cowden (from our own organization)
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If we just had a good QB - not saying Mahomes or Allen - but like Herbert or Stafford, I think we'd have a very good chance to win the division and compete in the playoffs.
Looking at what Stroud did last year and what Burrow did for some less than stellar Bengal teams, I think you could say that about every team without a QB. A good QB makes you competitive every year.
Yeah I think that's largely true but not always. Look at the Bengals this year or the Chargers the last few years.
We now have a good OL, good receivers, and some good pieces on defense. We did not have all those things in previous years and I would not have said we are a QB away during those years. Now we do.
This is not even a keep or fire JS/BD argument for me. I just think we have the bones of a team that can compete now. And it's been a long time since we've had that.
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If we just had a good QB - not saying Mahomes or Allen - but like Herbert or Stafford, I think we'd have a very good chance to win the division and compete in the playoffs.
Looking at what Stroud did last year and what Burrow did for some less than stellar Bengal teams, I think you could say that about every team without a QB. A good QB makes you competitive every year.
Or the difference in Washington with Daniels.
Jones isn't the ONLY reason we have lost BUT he is the reason we didn't win... Those two concepts are similar but different.
Jones last night didn't do anything himself to lose the game BUT he did NOTHING to win the game.. There is no more argument, he cam function within a system but he will never be THE reason we won!!!
this organization needs to hire someone who has actually won something at some level.
in 2018 there were roster reasons for hope too - OBJ obviously the main one but Collins, Barkley, Engram, Tomlinson, Shepard, JPP, Vernon, etc.
and again in 2020 with Dex, Leo, Martinez, Bradberry, Barkley, Jones off his rookie year, etc.
ironically the least hopeful year was probably 2022. and somehow that ended up the best year because the coaching was flawless.
hope isnt going to save this organization, someone who knows what it takes to win will.
I offensively a big part of 2022 was DJ, SB and AT all playing together for the first time healthy all season. AT had already shown he was a good LT imv and it was the foot/ankle issues holding him back. SB was recovered from his knee injury and DJ managed to stay healthy.
But then again maybe this speaks that a coaching change might actually help.
Jones isn't the ONLY reason we have lost BUT he is the reason we didn't win... Those two concepts are similar but different.
Jones last night didn't do anything himself to lose the game BUT he did NOTHING to win the game.. There is no more argument, he cam function within a system but he will never be THE reason we won!!!
Agree. But Daboll isn't helping the situation. Sometimes you need to coach your ass off.
I'm fine with JS as the GM. He came here recommended by Parcells, let the guy grow into the position, continue to develop the scouting department, etc.
New QB certainly. New HC...approaching that very quickly.
But then again maybe this speaks that a coaching change might actually help.
The deep ball struggles have to an extent offset the improved play of the line. This team used to not be able to push the ball down the field because of the Oline not holding up and the WRs not getting separation. Now those things are happening, and the QB can't get the ball there.
The Oline and WRs were two legs of the problem with the passing game. The third leg needs to be addressed now.
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If you told us before week 1 that the offensive line would be one of the best in the league in pass protection, Jones would recover from his disastrous 2023 and perform average according to QBR, Nabers would be one of the best WRs in the league, and the defense would average giving up around 20 points per game, you would think better than 1-3.
But then again maybe this speaks that a coaching change might actually help.
The deep ball struggles have to an extent offset the improved play of the line. This team used to not be able to push the ball down the field because of the Oline not holding up and the WRs not getting separation. Now those things are happening, and the QB can't get the ball there.
The Oline and WRs were two legs of the problem with the passing game. The third leg needs to be addressed now.
Yeah exactly. Everyone should look at that picture of Slayton in the non emotional thread. Easy, easy pass for a TD. Jones can't hit it, so what do we have to do?
We have to run 8 successful plays just to get in the red zone. So what do we see? Last night we actually saw good play after good play after good play. Play after play with good protection, good decision, good throw, good catch (mostly).
So you're watching and you can't help but think that Jones and the O are playing well. And in a way, they are. They strung together tons and tons of positive plays. But inevitably, some small mistake will occur and we'll stall out.
The way Jones has to play puts so much pressure on the O and on himself to be nearly perfect within the confines of his limitations.
I expect a first round QB to be drafted unless Jones shows he can consistently hit on deep balls between now and the end of the season.
The first thing a new FO does is get rid of everybody from the old regime. It happened with DG, it happened with Schoen.
If we bring in a new GM, it will happend again. These GMs have styles and will unload anyone who doesn't fit it.
Schoen has drafted extremely well, IMO - especially in the mid rounds. All of these guys are getting playing time and several are top-10 players on our team. I don't know what this complaint is.
2022 - Thibs, Wan'Dale, Flott, Bellinger, Belton, McFadden, DJ Davidson
2023 - Banks, Schmitz, Hyatt, Gray, Hawkins
2024 - Nabers, Nubin, Phillips, Johnson, Tracy
I expect a first round QB to be drafted unless Jones shows he can consistently hit on deep balls between now and the end of the season.
Even if he hits on deep balls, given the injury history and the past performance - and that's not to mention the lack of scoring production - QB is the #1 thing this team should be looking at regardless of DJ's performance this year.
I guess I'm saying - there's no way he puts to rest questions about his ability no matter what improvements he makes.
We need a change at QB.
Obviously, most important- we need a QB who has top-10 ability.
We need a legit WR2 and a legit TE.
Although we can shore up many other positions - take care of the above, and with the rest of thr current roster, this would be a playoff caliber offense.
On defense, most important - legit DT to pair with Dexter and a legit CB1 to pair with Banks as CB2. Although we can shore up many other positions, take care of the above and with the rest of the current roster, this would be a playoff caliber D.
So, we’re a ways away IMO. Most important of course is getting the QB. You have that guy - like a CJ Stroud, a Jayden Daniels - a young QB who can grow into a top five guy - you have hope. The players believe, the fans believe, the coaches have their guy. We have to wait for next year, and hope some of our young talent develops.
BD is coaching base on the talent of our QB. If you call it playing not to lose I get it. DJ has always been the common denominator for going on 6 years.
JS had a good draft this year compared to his first draft.
This is going to take time, just keep improving across all three phases of the game.
Daniel Jones may yet be our QB next year IF he is willing to rework his deal favorably with incentives as the driving force.