it's seeing the field. On the penalty play that got picked, the ball should have been up before Slayton reached the db. Slayton had leverage up the field and the outside, and that is where the ball should have gone. Instead, Jones waited and hoisted it up after the safety was headed over there so the pass had no chance.
On the concussion throw, Jones had a much easier pass to Singletary who was wide open and in his field of vision. Never saw him and had Nabers trying to make a circus catch on the sideline.
He doesn't see the field, doesn't see the leverage on longer passes, and he doesn't anticipate. Hoist all the deep passes you want. Unless the guy is wide open from the word go, it isn't getting completed.
I hear where you're coming from and I know the frustration. The good news is that 2024 is the transition year away from Daniel Jones and the drafting of a new QB next April.
RE: RE: RE: Some good points. Some things to counter
Underplayed:
OL - they’re complete ineffectiveness in the run game was a larger factor than Jones under throwing a few deep balls
Burns - another no show. This was exactly the game and opponent he was brought here to have an impact on
Okereke - another game with little to no impact plays after really emerging last year
Daboll - failed drives near the red zone resulting from inability to run and few if any actual routes/shots into the endzone
Jones - the scramble and throw on 4th that Nabers dropped was a perfect throw in a clutch moment
Overplayed:
Jones - the deep ball misses. Yes they need to hit more. Will be interesting to see where the goalposts shift to when this gets corrected also
Banks - Lamb made 1 big play that was as much on Nubin as Banks. All in all Banks competed and held him mostly in check.
Improvement - It’s year 3 and we all want wins. I get it. But there absolutely are positives from this first quarter and this baby doesn’t need to be thrown out in the bath water because we’re all sick of losing to Dallas.
Great post. Jones was definitely let down by the team again, as he has been his whole career. It shows incredible professionalism and restraint on his part to not come out in the media and tear them all apart for how they are all holding him back.
/s
It's to have a nuanced view of the loss and acknowledge that Jones did things well but he also did some things poorly and that other players on the team contributed to the loss.
But let's just focus on Jones and say he sucks.
Unfortunately, Sy's review also points out that the drumbeat that Jones is locking onto one receiver, not going through multiple reads, and his manipulating the pocket well is false. Did he miss on too many deep throws? Yes. Did that contribute to the loss? Yes. Was he the sole cause of the loss? No Did he also make plays that would have contributed to a win? Yes.
There are shades of grey
Daboll keeps saying that DJ is making good reads and decisions, throwing to the right receiver. However, some on this board opt to ignore that. Listen, I'm a DJ supporter who is also getting pissed off with his deep ball misses. He used to be very accurate on the deep one, that's how he got the name Danny Dimes. What happened I don't know. However, to say he doesn't see the whole field and is a one read QB is totally disingenuous. BTW, PPF had him rated at 80.9 as the best Giant player in the game.
it's seeing the field. On the penalty play that got picked, the ball should have been up before Slayton reached the db. Slayton had leverage up the field and the outside, and that is where the ball should have gone. Instead, Jones waited and hoisted it up after the safety was headed over there so the pass had no chance.
On the concussion throw, Jones had a much easier pass to Singletary who was wide open and in his field of vision. Never saw him and had Nabers trying to make a circus catch on the sideline.
He doesn't see the field, doesn't see the leverage on longer passes, and he doesn't anticipate. Hoist all the deep passes you want. Unless the guy is wide open from the word go, it isn't getting completed.
I hear where you're coming from and I know the frustration. The good news is that 2024 is the transition year away from Daniel Jones and the drafting of a new QB next April.
I don't think so. They will find a rationale to keep him another year because his cap hit actually goes drops 6 million from this year. If they wait one more year to cut him, the dead cap will be 11 million. It won't surprise me to see him back next year. These guys can't help themselves to be sucked in. Daniel Jones is this decade's Norm Snead.
RE: RE: RE: RE: Some good points. Some things to counter
Underplayed:
OL - they’re complete ineffectiveness in the run game was a larger factor than Jones under throwing a few deep balls
Burns - another no show. This was exactly the game and opponent he was brought here to have an impact on
Okereke - another game with little to no impact plays after really emerging last year
Daboll - failed drives near the red zone resulting from inability to run and few if any actual routes/shots into the endzone
Jones - the scramble and throw on 4th that Nabers dropped was a perfect throw in a clutch moment
Overplayed:
Jones - the deep ball misses. Yes they need to hit more. Will be interesting to see where the goalposts shift to when this gets corrected also
Banks - Lamb made 1 big play that was as much on Nubin as Banks. All in all Banks competed and held him mostly in check.
Improvement - It’s year 3 and we all want wins. I get it. But there absolutely are positives from this first quarter and this baby doesn’t need to be thrown out in the bath water because we’re all sick of losing to Dallas.
Great post. Jones was definitely let down by the team again, as he has been his whole career. It shows incredible professionalism and restraint on his part to not come out in the media and tear them all apart for how they are all holding him back.
/s
It's to have a nuanced view of the loss and acknowledge that Jones did things well but he also did some things poorly and that other players on the team contributed to the loss.
But let's just focus on Jones and say he sucks.
Unfortunately, Sy's review also points out that the drumbeat that Jones is locking onto one receiver, not going through multiple reads, and his manipulating the pocket well is false. Did he miss on too many deep throws? Yes. Did that contribute to the loss? Yes. Was he the sole cause of the loss? No Did he also make plays that would have contributed to a win? Yes.
There are shades of grey
Daboll keeps saying that DJ is making good reads and decisions, throwing to the right receiver. However, some on this board opt to ignore that. Listen, I'm a DJ supporter who is also getting pissed off with his deep ball misses. He used to be very accurate on the deep one, that's how he got the name Danny Dimes. What happened I don't know. However, to say he doesn't see the whole field and is a one read QB is totally disingenuous. BTW, PPF had him rated at 80.9 as the best Giant player in the game.
This take is bullshit.
What HomerJones45 wrote above is gospel. Despite what Daboll says in public.
PFF doesn’t know what is supposed to happen and yes, Jones has been highly efficient the last 3 games. But he hasn’t done anything to lift the team to a win. Nothing. In the last 4 home games started by Daniel Jones the Giants have scored zero offensive TDs. That actually has to be hard to do in today’s NFL.
See the post I made in the completions within 6 yards of hte LOS thread.
Jones is playing as he did in 2022 with the exception of the 700 yards rushing. That facet of his game is forever gone. Much like offensive TDs when he is on the field.
it's seeing the field. On the penalty play that got picked, the ball should have been up before Slayton reached the db. Slayton had leverage up the field and the outside, and that is where the ball should have gone. Instead, Jones waited and hoisted it up after the safety was headed over there so the pass had no chance.
On the concussion throw, Jones had a much easier pass to Singletary who was wide open and in his field of vision. Never saw him and had Nabers trying to make a circus catch on the sideline.
He doesn't see the field, doesn't see the leverage on longer passes, and he doesn't anticipate. Hoist all the deep passes you want. Unless the guy is wide open from the word go, it isn't getting completed.
Exactly right. This post should be pinned and required reading as part of the BBI curriculum.
RE: RE: RE: Sy, what did you think of the 4th and goal field goal?
In Daboll's very first game as the head coach, he went aggressive, a 2 point conversion instead of settling for a tie game. We all applauded his go for the win aggressiveness. Now he seems to be coaching to not lose as opposed to going all out to win. Is that a fair assessment?
I was 50/50 on it. I would have not criticized either decision. I understood the field goal approach because they were constantly moving the ball into FG range. All they had to do was stop Dallas once or twice and they're in position to win that game because of those 3 points.
As always, your comments are judicious, and I understand where you are coming from with the 50/50 call. But I'm not sure I see it as 50/50. If the Giants miss on 4th down they still have Dallas pinned way back against their goal line. Stop them there and the Giants get the ball right back around mid-field.
In the end, you could be right that Daboll was playing it for a game-winning FG later on. (It may also be that he did not have a lot of faith in Daniel Jones improvising a TD in case the 4th down play broke down and his first read was taken away.)
Or is it possible that Brian Daboll is coaching very conservatively because he is walking on egg-shells?
It is a fair point. If it were up to me - I would have went for it. You can ask the people I was sitting next to. I guess Daboll doesn't value my opinion, oh well.
Is because the opposing teams are fine letting him do it.
As soon as a defense comes in again with a scheme like Flores’ it’s going to be ugly if he can’t hit anything deep.
I'd also argue that the throws DJ is making are throws that any other QB in the NFL, backups included, could make. He can't do anything above the minimum of an NFL QB. Jones is Marcus Mariotta in a blue uniform. He should be a backup somewhere, where he can come in and keep teams close by just being functional. He will never do something to really help win a game
RE: RE: RE: RE: Some good points. Some things to counter
Underplayed:
OL - they’re complete ineffectiveness in the run game was a larger factor than Jones under throwing a few deep balls
Burns - another no show. This was exactly the game and opponent he was brought here to have an impact on
Okereke - another game with little to no impact plays after really emerging last year
Daboll - failed drives near the red zone resulting from inability to run and few if any actual routes/shots into the endzone
Jones - the scramble and throw on 4th that Nabers dropped was a perfect throw in a clutch moment
Overplayed:
Jones - the deep ball misses. Yes they need to hit more. Will be interesting to see where the goalposts shift to when this gets corrected also
Banks - Lamb made 1 big play that was as much on Nubin as Banks. All in all Banks competed and held him mostly in check.
Improvement - It’s year 3 and we all want wins. I get it. But there absolutely are positives from this first quarter and this baby doesn’t need to be thrown out in the bath water because we’re all sick of losing to Dallas.
Great post. Jones was definitely let down by the team again, as he has been his whole career. It shows incredible professionalism and restraint on his part to not come out in the media and tear them all apart for how they are all holding him back.
/s
It's to have a nuanced view of the loss and acknowledge that Jones did things well but he also did some things poorly and that other players on the team contributed to the loss.
But let's just focus on Jones and say he sucks.
Unfortunately, Sy's review also points out that the drumbeat that Jones is locking onto one receiver, not going through multiple reads, and his manipulating the pocket well is false. Did he miss on too many deep throws? Yes. Did that contribute to the loss? Yes. Was he the sole cause of the loss? No Did he also make plays that would have contributed to a win? Yes.
There are shades of grey
lol. Here come the fan club with their bullshit excuses. They are 1-3. They didn’t score 1 fucking touchdown. Not one. But hey, at least Daniel Jones wasn’t the SOLE reason they lost! Unbelievable. The $40M QB also didn’t help them win. Again.
You are the people that Sy is referencing when he talks about how low the bar is. Not one person thinks Jones was the SOLE reason they lost. It’s absolutely pathetic that some of you are perfectly content with that production
Sorry that looking at things in a balanced way upsets your myopia so much.
1--- You say the OL was solid and they have been very good yet a quote of yours states "Even though they were OK in pass protection, the trio of Jon Runyan, John Michael Schmitz, and Greg Van Roten were dominated in the run game."
And two of your duds were on the OL. How is this a "very good OL?" They went up against one of the worst Dl's in the NFL vs the NFL. They have played against two bad teams Cleveland and Washington. I realize the name "Cleveland" in regard to Defense means a lot but it's the same Defense that got torched vs Dallas. And the OL for Giants didn't do much vs Minny. You pointed out they were "dominated inside" and you identify "2 OL Duds" and yet you say the Ol has been (very) good? Rushing for 74 yards and 26 yards in two of the 4 games in which only one thus far has shown to be really good is a stretch to lean toward “very good,” isn’t it? If you can’t run the ball,, then how good is your OL?
2--- Unless/Until teams stop Nabers- why go away from it early in season when you are still in the playoff hunt? Maybe if Daboll can work more explosive plays then why go away form it? Maybe if we can run the ball more, why go away from it? Maybe if Jones could be more competent then why go away from it?
**At the end of the year (last 2-3 weeks for example or use him sparingly) The Giants could rest Nabers. But for the time being why not play your game and play to your strengths while you are in playoff contention rather than force play to less productive players?
that Jones should RETIRE due to the TWO neck injuries. He looked like his throwing motion, last year, changed after the second neck injury.
This year it looks like his arm strength is shot, and he is trying to compensate with any throws of 15 yards or longer.
A marginal NFL starting QB, who now has an injury that diminishes his effectiveness, is a recipe to consistent losing.
The team has improved its talent level in many spots. The QB, however, is holding the team back more than ever.
Is because the opposing teams are fine letting him do it.
As soon as a defense comes in again with a scheme like Flores’ it’s going to be ugly if he can’t hit anything deep.
I'd also argue that the throws DJ is making are throws that any other QB in the NFL, backups included, could make. He can't do anything above the minimum of an NFL QB. Jones is Marcus Mariotta in a blue uniform. He should be a backup somewhere, where he can come in and keep teams close by just being functional. He will never do something to really help win a game
about the lack of power on the interior. It was strange how well they played against Payne and Allen, but it reared its ugly head again vs. DAL.
From a roster building standpoint, lack of power on the interior is a killer in the NFC East.
Evan Neal to RG just makes too much sense. They need his power presence. But it's tough to make a change when the pass blocking is so good. Tough call.
RE: RE: RE: Some good points. Some things to counter
it's seeing the field. On the penalty play that got picked, the ball should have been up before Slayton reached the db. Slayton had leverage up the field and the outside, and that is where the ball should have gone. Instead, Jones waited and hoisted it up after the safety was headed over there so the pass had no chance.
On the concussion throw, Jones had a much easier pass to Singletary who was wide open and in his field of vision. Never saw him and had Nabers trying to make a circus catch on the sideline.
He doesn't see the field, doesn't see the leverage on longer passes, and he doesn't anticipate. Hoist all the deep passes you want. Unless the guy is wide open from the word go, it isn't getting completed.
I hear where you're coming from and I know the frustration. The good news is that 2024 is the transition year away from Daniel Jones and the drafting of a new QB next April.
I don't think so. They will find a rationale to keep him another year because his cap hit actually goes drops 6 million from this year. If they wait one more year to cut him, the dead cap will be 11 million. It won't surprise me to see him back next year. These guys can't help themselves to be sucked in. Daniel Jones is this decade's Norm Snead.
Homer this scares me but I think you may be right. And I was never a member of either club. The DJFC or DJHC . I played along hoping. Now? I 'm done completely. Jones Norm Snead.? Actually I think you give Jones too much credit here.
1--- You say the OL was solid and they have been very good yet a quote of yours states "Even though they were OK in pass protection, the trio of Jon Runyan, John Michael Schmitz, and Greg Van Roten were dominated in the run game."
And two of your duds were on the OL. How is this a "very good OL?" They went up against one of the worst Dl's in the NFL vs the NFL. They have played against two bad teams Cleveland and Washington. I realize the name "Cleveland" in regard to Defense means a lot but it's the same Defense that got torched vs Dallas. And the OL for Giants didn't do much vs Minny. You pointed out they were "dominated inside" and you identify "2 OL Duds" and yet you say the Ol has been (very) good? Rushing for 74 yards and 26 yards in two of the 4 games in which only one thus far has shown to be really good is a stretch to lean toward “very good,” isn’t it? If you can’t run the ball,, then how good is your OL?
2--- Unless/Until teams stop Nabers- why go away from it early in season when you are still in the playoff hunt? Maybe if Daboll can work more explosive plays then why go away form it? Maybe if we can run the ball more, why go away from it? Maybe if Jones could be more competent then why go away from it?
**At the end of the year (last 2-3 weeks for example or use him sparingly) The Giants could rest Nabers. But for the time being why not play your game and play to your strengths while you are in playoff contention rather than force play to less productive players?
Very good OL is in reference to their pass protection (especially compared to where its been)
1--- You say the OL was solid and they have been very good yet a quote of yours states "Even though they were OK in pass protection, the trio of Jon Runyan, John Michael Schmitz, and Greg Van Roten were dominated in the run game."
And two of your duds were on the OL. How is this a "very good OL?" They went up against one of the worst Dl's in the NFL vs the NFL. They have played against two bad teams Cleveland and Washington. I realize the name "Cleveland" in regard to Defense means a lot but it's the same Defense that got torched vs Dallas. And the OL for Giants didn't do much vs Minny. You pointed out they were "dominated inside" and you identify "2 OL Duds" and yet you say the Ol has been (very) good? Rushing for 74 yards and 26 yards in two of the 4 games in which only one thus far has shown to be really good is a stretch to lean toward “very good,” isn’t it? If you can’t run the ball,, then how good is your OL?
2--- Unless/Until teams stop Nabers- why go away from it early in season when you are still in the playoff hunt? Maybe if Daboll can work more explosive plays then why go away form it? Maybe if we can run the ball more, why go away from it? Maybe if Jones could be more competent then why go away from it?
**At the end of the year (last 2-3 weeks for example or use him sparingly) The Giants could rest Nabers. But for the time being why not play your game and play to your strengths while you are in playoff contention rather than force play to less productive players?
Very good OL is in reference to their pass protection (especially compared to where its been)
Yes good pass protection. Not good run. Thus an average OL. Maybe slightly above average at best.
about the lack of power on the interior. It was strange how well they played against Payne and Allen, but it reared its ugly head again vs. DAL.
From a roster building standpoint, lack of power on the interior is a killer in the NFC East.
Evan Neal to RG just makes too much sense. They need his power presence. But it's tough to make a change when the pass blocking is so good. Tough call.
Van Roten’s pass blocking has not been good. Make the change.
Why draft a ferrari WR when you don’t have a QB who can get him the ball?
1st quarter results = Historic pace for the rookie ferrari
Daboll is taking the training wheels away and the QB will fail because he’s a 1 read QB
1st quarter results = After the Minny game which Jones was terrible, he’s been efficient and is showing the pre and post snap recognition and decision making they say he’s incapable of
Poor pocket presence that leads to sacks and makes the OL look worse
1st quarter results = Significant improvement since Minny culminating in back to back to back performances vs a great Cleveland D where he bailed the OL out and only 1 sack each vs two division opponents.
Dallas made NY 1 dimensional but a) couldn’t get to Jones and b) couldn’t stop the intermediate and ball control passing offense. Unfortunately the offense (and Jones) regressed in the redzone and couldn’t connect on deep shots. Now the echo chamber is roaring about a few deep passes.
There’s positives and work to be done.
1) Run game
2) Redzone offense
3) Run defense
4) Explosive plays
Jones is showing this fan he’s capable of playing at a level that allows the staff to further develop this team while competing. If they can find a higher ceiling QB next year, great! For now, keep stacking.
Just stop with this Daniel Jones ball washing that you’ve done in this thread. Just stop. Daniel Jones stats look “efficient” because he’s throwing the ball 5 yards downfield to Nabers and Robinson and asking them to get the yardage with their legs on 90% of the plays. Jones’ yards per attempt is embarrassingly bad. Just as it has been his entire career. You don’t need to pay $40M+ to a QB to check the ball down on every play.
This team didn’t score a single touchdown. Again. Your standards for good QB play are as embarrassing as Jones’ y/a.
Our IDL is killing us, and will continue to kill us.
Too easy to attack. Double Dex when he's in there and run up the gut when he's not. We don't have another even average player at that position.
I wondered what Schoen was doing when we didn't re-sign Ashawn or sign a quality replacement, or draft an IDL on Day 2. I had hoped he knew what he was doing. He didn't.
RE: Our IDL is killing us, and will continue to kill us.
Too easy to attack. Double Dex when he's in there and run up the gut when he's not. We don't have another even average player at that position.
I wondered what Schoen was doing when we didn't re-sign Ashawn or sign a quality replacement, or draft an IDL on Day 2. I had hoped he knew what he was doing. He didn't.
He didn't re-sign A'Shawn because A'Shawn got more money from another team. It takes two to tango. Too bad, because I liked A'Shawn
Just stop with this Daniel Jones ball washing that you’ve done in this thread. Just stop. Daniel Jones stats look “efficient” because he’s throwing the ball 5 yards downfield to Nabers and Robinson and asking them to get the yardage with their legs on 90% of the plays. Jones’ yards per attempt is embarrassingly bad. Just as it has been his entire career. You don’t need to pay $40M+ to a QB to check the ball down on every play.
This team didn’t score a single touchdown. Again. Your standards for good QB play are as embarrassing as Jones’ y/a.
Despite the same tired tone and rhetoric you’re known for, you reminded me of another: Jones isn’t accurate enough to allow YAC, yet that’s now a real part of this offense.
There’s no ball washing here. Giants before Jones. I’m just not going to fall in line with the narrative. I’m watching the games live. I’m watching the all 22. I’m watching the rest of the league. Y’all jumped the shark and the same old crew won’t rest until there’s another new regime and this franchise truly becomes the Browns.
I want stability that leads to respect and a return to Giants pride. I think this regime can restore it. Jones plays a part in that. May only be this year. May be as the bridge next year. My bar isn’t low. My picture is bigger.
Just stop with this Daniel Jones ball washing that you’ve done in this thread. Just stop. Daniel Jones stats look “efficient” because he’s throwing the ball 5 yards downfield to Nabers and Robinson and asking them to get the yardage with their legs on 90% of the plays. Jones’ yards per attempt is embarrassingly bad. Just as it has been his entire career. You don’t need to pay $40M+ to a QB to check the ball down on every play.
This team didn’t score a single touchdown. Again. Your standards for good QB play are as embarrassing as Jones’ y/a.
Despite the same tired tone and rhetoric you’re known for, you reminded me of another: Jones isn’t accurate enough to allow YAC, yet that’s now a real part of this offense.
There’s no ball washing here. Giants before Jones. I’m just not going to fall in line with the narrative. I’m watching the games live. I’m watching the all 22. I’m watching the rest of the league. Y’all jumped the shark and the same old crew won’t rest until there’s another new regime and this franchise truly becomes the Browns.
I want stability that leads to respect and a return to Giants pride. I think this regime can restore it. Jones plays a part in that. May only be this year. May be as the bridge next year. My bar isn’t low. My picture is bigger.
Jones is once again averaging less than 7 yards per attempt. He’s completed 2 passes the entire season over 20 yards in the air. They don’t need to pay a QB $40M+ to check it down and let the receivers make plays on their own. When fans talk about making throws that lead to YAC they aren’t talking about 5 yard crossers every damn play. A QB making $5M can do that. And I didn’t say a damn thing about this regime. The only thing I’ll say about that is they tied themselves to a QB that is going to get them all fired. Just as he has done to all the previous regimes during his tenure here.
You want stability? You should be hoping that Daniel Jones leaves as soon as possible. Hoping and wishing he turns into something he’s never been in his entire life is a fools errand
And right now the receiving yards are skewered by playing 1 more game than 30 other teams and I’m not gonna do any math because all anyone can say positive about Jones is supposition and/or the HCs public comments.
I was able to find individual YAC statistics and there isn’t a Giants in the top 20. So please, other than you watching the all-22 and your feelings, please bring something that shows Jones has been anything beyond efficient the last three games. Because that is all he has been.
Take away Jones rookie year he has thrown 42 TD passes in 51 games. They are currently 29th in ppg but you have seen things on the alll-22. Bring some video or something to give the rest of us your hope.
The man has been argued on this site ad naseum. There is plenty to show who Jones is relative to every other QB in the league. Bottom line, he is 23-29-1 and he has won a total of 5 games against teams with a winning record. Somebody please bring something other than supposition or feelings to give us detractors hope.
And right now the receiving yards are skewered by playing 1 more game than 30 other teams and I’m not gonna do any math because all anyone can say positive about Jones is supposition and/or the HCs public comments.
I was able to find individual YAC statistics and there isn’t a Giants in the top 20. So please, other than you watching the all-22 and your feelings, please bring something that shows Jones has been anything beyond efficient the last three games. Because that is all he has been.
Take away Jones rookie year he has thrown 42 TD passes in 51 games. They are currently 29th in ppg but you have seen things on the alll-22. Bring some video or something to give the rest of us your hope.
The man has been argued on this site ad naseum. There is plenty to show who Jones is relative to every other QB in the league. Bottom line, he is 23-29-1 and he has won a total of 5 games against teams with a winning record. Somebody please bring something other than supposition or feelings to give us detractors hope.
I’m simply watching. And I’m seeing him improve prior weaknesses. It’s not surprising. He’s getting better pass blocking, he has two guys that he can trust to consistently win and catch, and the guy works hard. I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of this season. Perfect world, he makes a lot of people eat crow, Daboll and the staff get this group executing at a high clip, and Schoen and Co. find a higher ceiling QB to compete in the offseason.
I hope you’re right but as Dandy Don once famously said…
If If’s and But’s were candy and nuts well wouldn’t every day be Christmas or some such thing….
In the meantime, as Sy alluded to in his review DJ got one of those two targets beat up on Thursday night… Here is a prime example. Nabers takes seven steps after Jones should have released the pass and gets lit by the safety. This pass should’ve been a chance for YAC. Jones “developing processing” lined Nabers up. This is the last 5 seasons of Jones passing. Link - ( New Window )
I’m simply watching. And I’m seeing him improve prior weaknesses. It’s not surprising. He’s getting better pass blocking, he has two guys that he can trust to consistently win and catch, and the guy works hard. I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of this season. Perfect world, he makes a lot of people eat crow, Daboll and the staff get this group executing at a high clip, and Schoen and Co. find a higher ceiling QB to compete in the offseason.
If you think he's improving, then you need to look more closely. In his 6th year, he is what he is - his ceiling is a mediocre game manager, his floor is one of the worst QBs in the league. Has a disastrous career winning record for a reason, you would have to surround him with a roster of All-Pro or HOF players to have any chance at contending for a title (and no, 2022 we were no threat to win a title, we barely finished above .500). See what you want to see.
I’m simply watching. And I’m seeing him improve prior weaknesses. It’s not surprising. He’s getting better pass blocking, he has two guys that he can trust to consistently win and catch, and the guy works hard. I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of this season. Perfect world, he makes a lot of people eat crow, Daboll and the staff get this group executing at a high clip, and Schoen and Co. find a higher ceiling QB to compete in the offseason.
If you think he's improving, then you need to look more closely. In his 6th year, he is what he is - his ceiling is a mediocre game manager, his floor is one of the worst QBs in the league. Has a disastrous career winning record for a reason, you would have to surround him with a roster of All-Pro or HOF players to have any chance at contending for a title (and no, 2022 we were no threat to win a title, we barely finished above .500). See what you want to see.
Thanks for taking the time to post the same hyperbolic narrative we’ve read ten thousand times before. Echo echo echo
RE: RE: RE: Some good points. Some things to counter
Unfortunately, Sy's review also points out that the drumbeat that Jones is locking onto one receiver, not going through multiple reads, and his manipulating the pocket well is false.
Underplayed:
OL - they’re complete ineffectiveness in the run game was a larger factor than Jones under throwing a few deep balls
Burns - another no show. This was exactly the game and opponent he was brought here to have an impact on
Okereke - another game with little to no impact plays after really emerging last year
Daboll - failed drives near the red zone resulting from inability to run and few if any actual routes/shots into the endzone
Jones - the scramble and throw on 4th that Nabers dropped was a perfect throw in a clutch moment
Overplayed:
Jones - the deep ball misses. Yes they need to hit more. Will be interesting to see where the goalposts shift to when this gets corrected also
Banks - Lamb made 1 big play that was as much on Nubin as Banks. All in all Banks competed and held him mostly in check.
Improvement - It’s year 3 and we all want wins. I get it. But there absolutely are positives from this first quarter and this baby doesn’t need to be thrown out in the bath water because we’re all sick of losing to Dallas.
Great post. Jones was definitely let down by the team again, as he has been his whole career. It shows incredible professionalism and restraint on his part to not come out in the media and tear them all apart for how they are all holding him back.
/s
It's to have a nuanced view of the loss and acknowledge that Jones did things well but he also did some things poorly and that other players on the team contributed to the loss.
But let's just focus on Jones and say he sucks.
Unfortunately, Sy's review also points out that the drumbeat that Jones is locking onto one receiver, not going through multiple reads, and his manipulating the pocket well is false. Did he miss on too many deep throws? Yes. Did that contribute to the loss? Yes. Was he the sole cause of the loss? No Did he also make plays that would have contributed to a win? Yes.
There are shades of grey
lol. Here come the fan club with their bullshit excuses. They are 1-3. They didn’t score 1 fucking touchdown. Not one. But hey, at least Daniel Jones wasn’t the SOLE reason they lost! Unbelievable. The $40M QB also didn’t help them win. Again.
You are the people that Sy is referencing when he talks about how low the bar is. Not one person thinks Jones was the SOLE reason they lost. It’s absolutely pathetic that some of you are perfectly content with that production
Could not agree more. Want to know where the losing mentality that infiltrates the players, the coaches, the management, and the ownership? Just read BBI.
Yes, the volume was there. But his drops in important situations hurt us. As did his slip on 3rd and long. Definitely wouldn't have been one of my studs of the game.
This is the best we're going to get from Jones. As Sy said, his deep throws are way off, something everyone can see. Overthrows or underthrows. It doesn't matter. They're off. Other teams know it too. Whatever the reason (neck injuries?), his ability to throw deep just isn't there, at least not right now. He was never really able to see the whole field. Now he can't threaten the whole field. I want to see how the rest of the season plays out, but this problem is just more proof that we need to move on from Jones after this season.
Yes, the volume was there. But his drops in important situations hurt us. As did his slip on 3rd and long. Definitely wouldn't have been one of my studs of the game.
Slayton, Wan'Dale and Nabers dropped 3rd or 4th down balls that would have been 1st downs in the 4th quarter. I believe on consecutive drives.
I’m simply watching. And I’m seeing him improve prior weaknesses. It’s not surprising. He’s getting better pass blocking, he has two guys that he can trust to consistently win and catch, and the guy works hard. I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of this season. Perfect world, he makes a lot of people eat crow, Daboll and the staff get this group executing at a high clip, and Schoen and Co. find a higher ceiling QB to compete in the offseason.
Do you work in hiring? I'd like 6 years to gradually figure out my job.
Your contributions to BBI are appreciated and valued by me and I think should be by everyone who reads BBI.
No one can convince me that Daniel Jones is anything more than a backup level QB. I want him replaced immediately. I have no delusions that Lock or Devito are long term solutions but at least they'll bring a different energy to the team and they can score 15 points a game too with the 2024 OL and WRs.
With the exception of Dexter, as a talent evaluator and draft pick evaluator, is there a DL on the roster that would make the top 25 DL groups in the NFL? Not start, just make the 53. I don't think so. I think after QB, DL is weakest part of the 2024 team.
I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think the Giants are developing a young, cap inexpensive secondary they can win with. Banks and Flott are not allowing the kind of separation we've seen from the Giants CBs in recent past years. Banks has to become more ball aware. Is that a teachable trait? I doubt Flott will ever be an even average tackler but if he can cover on the outside I think the Giants can live with that. I like the safety combo of Pinnock and Nubin. Phillips is the best slot DB the Giants have had in a long time. More depth is needed. Flott might be suited to be a back up not a starter. I think next year aside from potentially an early round CB secondary will be low on the priority list.
Very disappointing to read about JMS getting outplayed so badly. I'm going to keep beating the drum to see Evan Neal play guard. I want to see Neal next to Andrew Thomas and Runyan at RG. I'd like to see the Giants run behind Thomas and Neal. I know Daboll won't even consider it. One of the many reasons I think Daboll has 13 games or less before he's fired.
Your contributions to BBI are appreciated and valued by me and I think should be by everyone who reads BBI.
No one can convince me that Daniel Jones is anything more than a backup level QB. I want him replaced immediately. I have no delusions that Lock or Devito are long term solutions but at least they'll bring a different energy to the team and they can score 15 points a game too with the 2024 OL and WRs.
With the exception of Dexter, as a talent evaluator and draft pick evaluator, is there a DL on the roster that would make the top 25 DL groups in the NFL? Not start, just make the 53. I don't think so. I think after QB, DL is weakest part of the 2024 team.
I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think the Giants are developing a young, cap inexpensive secondary they can win with. Banks and Flott are not allowing the kind of separation we've seen from the Giants CBs in recent past years. Banks has to become more ball aware. Is that a teachable trait? I doubt Flott will ever be an even average tackler but if he can cover on the outside I think the Giants can live with that. I like the safety combo of Pinnock and Nubin. Phillips is the best slot DB the Giants have had in a long time. More depth is needed. Flott might be suited to be a back up not a starter. I think next year aside from potentially an early round CB secondary will be low on the priority list.
Very disappointing to read about JMS getting outplayed so badly. I'm going to keep beating the drum to see Evan Neal play guard. I want to see Neal next to Andrew Thomas and Runyan at RG. I'd like to see the Giants run behind Thomas and Neal. I know Daboll won't even consider it. One of the many reasons I think Daboll has 13 games or less before he's fired.
I’d like to thank you Arnie,
This is a great post and encapsulates a lot good info and questions, it is certainly head scratching that they don’t even consider practice reps for Neal, especially with other OLs leaving here as tackle failures and finding success elsewhere. And also for the Erich Barnes info in the other thread this morning.
Also Thanks to Eric & John for the awesome podcasts, TrueBlueLarry for the historical stuff and though not seen as much around here Matt in SGS. Lots of great content provided on the best fan site on the webs…
Good post but everything we’ve seen indicates Bricillo very much knows what he is doing. It’s entirely possible he has a side project going with Neal to overhaul his technique. And I don’t find the idea that Daboll has it in for a young first rounder believable.
If ever the Giants had a chance to take the division, it’s this year. But for Daboll’s bone-headed decision to not bring up a kicker, we would have beat Washington. The Dallas game was painful to watch: no adjustment to D’s corrected run defense. His play-calling is predictable. No difference in offensive ‘output’: 2 TDs a game is not going to get it done.
If Jones is the problem, put in Devito. He won 3 games last year. t this point, Daboll and his man Jones will be lucky to get two more.
If ever the Giants had a chance to take the division, it’s this year. But for Daboll’s bone-headed decision to not bring up a kicker, we would have beat Washington. The Dallas game was painful to watch: no adjustment to D’s corrected run defense. His play-calling is predictable. No difference in offensive ‘output’: 2 TDs a game is not going to get it done.
If Jones is the problem, put in Devito. He won 3 games last year. t this point, Daboll and his man Jones will be lucky to get two more.
I hate to say it, and I'll keep rooting for wins because I'm a dumb fan, but it may turn out to be in our long term best interests to suck this year.
Thanks for taking the time to post the same hyperbolic narrative we’ve read ten thousand times before. Echo echo echo
As opposed to your “fresh” take that Daniel Jones is “improving prior weaknesses?”
- Deep ball has gotten worse
- Points per game is abysmal
- Threat to run is diminished
- Defenses stacking the box and daring him to throw deep
It’s convenient to be contrarian, but so far the “improvement” you are seeing hasn’t produced any meaningful results. In fact, the team continues to regress.
On the concussion throw, Jones had a much easier pass to Singletary who was wide open and in his field of vision. Never saw him and had Nabers trying to make a circus catch on the sideline.
He doesn't see the field, doesn't see the leverage on longer passes, and he doesn't anticipate. Hoist all the deep passes you want. Unless the guy is wide open from the word go, it isn't getting completed.
I hear where you're coming from and I know the frustration. The good news is that 2024 is the transition year away from Daniel Jones and the drafting of a new QB next April.
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In comment 16628911 mako J said:
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Underplayed:
OL - they’re complete ineffectiveness in the run game was a larger factor than Jones under throwing a few deep balls
Burns - another no show. This was exactly the game and opponent he was brought here to have an impact on
Okereke - another game with little to no impact plays after really emerging last year
Daboll - failed drives near the red zone resulting from inability to run and few if any actual routes/shots into the endzone
Jones - the scramble and throw on 4th that Nabers dropped was a perfect throw in a clutch moment
Overplayed:
Jones - the deep ball misses. Yes they need to hit more. Will be interesting to see where the goalposts shift to when this gets corrected also
Banks - Lamb made 1 big play that was as much on Nubin as Banks. All in all Banks competed and held him mostly in check.
Improvement - It’s year 3 and we all want wins. I get it. But there absolutely are positives from this first quarter and this baby doesn’t need to be thrown out in the bath water because we’re all sick of losing to Dallas.
Great post. Jones was definitely let down by the team again, as he has been his whole career. It shows incredible professionalism and restraint on his part to not come out in the media and tear them all apart for how they are all holding him back.
/s
It's to have a nuanced view of the loss and acknowledge that Jones did things well but he also did some things poorly and that other players on the team contributed to the loss.
But let's just focus on Jones and say he sucks.
Unfortunately, Sy's review also points out that the drumbeat that Jones is locking onto one receiver, not going through multiple reads, and his manipulating the pocket well is false. Did he miss on too many deep throws? Yes. Did that contribute to the loss? Yes. Was he the sole cause of the loss? No Did he also make plays that would have contributed to a win? Yes.
There are shades of grey
Daboll keeps saying that DJ is making good reads and decisions, throwing to the right receiver. However, some on this board opt to ignore that. Listen, I'm a DJ supporter who is also getting pissed off with his deep ball misses. He used to be very accurate on the deep one, that's how he got the name Danny Dimes. What happened I don't know. However, to say he doesn't see the whole field and is a one read QB is totally disingenuous. BTW, PPF had him rated at 80.9 as the best Giant player in the game.
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it's seeing the field. On the penalty play that got picked, the ball should have been up before Slayton reached the db. Slayton had leverage up the field and the outside, and that is where the ball should have gone. Instead, Jones waited and hoisted it up after the safety was headed over there so the pass had no chance.
On the concussion throw, Jones had a much easier pass to Singletary who was wide open and in his field of vision. Never saw him and had Nabers trying to make a circus catch on the sideline.
He doesn't see the field, doesn't see the leverage on longer passes, and he doesn't anticipate. Hoist all the deep passes you want. Unless the guy is wide open from the word go, it isn't getting completed.
I hear where you're coming from and I know the frustration. The good news is that 2024 is the transition year away from Daniel Jones and the drafting of a new QB next April.
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In comment 16628923 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16628911 mako J said:
Quote:
Underplayed:
OL - they’re complete ineffectiveness in the run game was a larger factor than Jones under throwing a few deep balls
Burns - another no show. This was exactly the game and opponent he was brought here to have an impact on
Okereke - another game with little to no impact plays after really emerging last year
Daboll - failed drives near the red zone resulting from inability to run and few if any actual routes/shots into the endzone
Jones - the scramble and throw on 4th that Nabers dropped was a perfect throw in a clutch moment
Overplayed:
Jones - the deep ball misses. Yes they need to hit more. Will be interesting to see where the goalposts shift to when this gets corrected also
Banks - Lamb made 1 big play that was as much on Nubin as Banks. All in all Banks competed and held him mostly in check.
Improvement - It’s year 3 and we all want wins. I get it. But there absolutely are positives from this first quarter and this baby doesn’t need to be thrown out in the bath water because we’re all sick of losing to Dallas.
Great post. Jones was definitely let down by the team again, as he has been his whole career. It shows incredible professionalism and restraint on his part to not come out in the media and tear them all apart for how they are all holding him back.
/s
It's to have a nuanced view of the loss and acknowledge that Jones did things well but he also did some things poorly and that other players on the team contributed to the loss.
But let's just focus on Jones and say he sucks.
Unfortunately, Sy's review also points out that the drumbeat that Jones is locking onto one receiver, not going through multiple reads, and his manipulating the pocket well is false. Did he miss on too many deep throws? Yes. Did that contribute to the loss? Yes. Was he the sole cause of the loss? No Did he also make plays that would have contributed to a win? Yes.
There are shades of grey
Daboll keeps saying that DJ is making good reads and decisions, throwing to the right receiver. However, some on this board opt to ignore that. Listen, I'm a DJ supporter who is also getting pissed off with his deep ball misses. He used to be very accurate on the deep one, that's how he got the name Danny Dimes. What happened I don't know. However, to say he doesn't see the whole field and is a one read QB is totally disingenuous. BTW, PPF had him rated at 80.9 as the best Giant player in the game.
This take is bullshit.
What HomerJones45 wrote above is gospel. Despite what Daboll says in public.
PFF doesn’t know what is supposed to happen and yes, Jones has been highly efficient the last 3 games. But he hasn’t done anything to lift the team to a win. Nothing. In the last 4 home games started by Daniel Jones the Giants have scored zero offensive TDs. That actually has to be hard to do in today’s NFL.
See the post I made in the completions within 6 yards of hte LOS thread.
Jones is playing as he did in 2022 with the exception of the 700 yards rushing. That facet of his game is forever gone. Much like offensive TDs when he is on the field.
On the concussion throw, Jones had a much easier pass to Singletary who was wide open and in his field of vision. Never saw him and had Nabers trying to make a circus catch on the sideline.
He doesn't see the field, doesn't see the leverage on longer passes, and he doesn't anticipate. Hoist all the deep passes you want. Unless the guy is wide open from the word go, it isn't getting completed.
Exactly right. This post should be pinned and required reading as part of the BBI curriculum.
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In comment 16628850 jeffusedtobeonwebtv said:
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In Daboll's very first game as the head coach, he went aggressive, a 2 point conversion instead of settling for a tie game. We all applauded his go for the win aggressiveness. Now he seems to be coaching to not lose as opposed to going all out to win. Is that a fair assessment?
I was 50/50 on it. I would have not criticized either decision. I understood the field goal approach because they were constantly moving the ball into FG range. All they had to do was stop Dallas once or twice and they're in position to win that game because of those 3 points.
As always, your comments are judicious, and I understand where you are coming from with the 50/50 call. But I'm not sure I see it as 50/50. If the Giants miss on 4th down they still have Dallas pinned way back against their goal line. Stop them there and the Giants get the ball right back around mid-field.
In the end, you could be right that Daboll was playing it for a game-winning FG later on. (It may also be that he did not have a lot of faith in Daniel Jones improvising a TD in case the 4th down play broke down and his first read was taken away.)
Or is it possible that Brian Daboll is coaching very conservatively because he is walking on egg-shells?
It is a fair point. If it were up to me - I would have went for it. You can ask the people I was sitting next to. I guess Daboll doesn't value my opinion, oh well.
As soon as a defense comes in again with a scheme like Flores’ it’s going to be ugly if he can’t hit anything deep.
I'd also argue that the throws DJ is making are throws that any other QB in the NFL, backups included, could make. He can't do anything above the minimum of an NFL QB. Jones is Marcus Mariotta in a blue uniform. He should be a backup somewhere, where he can come in and keep teams close by just being functional. He will never do something to really help win a game
Quote:
In comment 16628923 Mike from Ohio said:
Quote:
In comment 16628911 mako J said:
Quote:
Underplayed:
OL - they’re complete ineffectiveness in the run game was a larger factor than Jones under throwing a few deep balls
Burns - another no show. This was exactly the game and opponent he was brought here to have an impact on
Okereke - another game with little to no impact plays after really emerging last year
Daboll - failed drives near the red zone resulting from inability to run and few if any actual routes/shots into the endzone
Jones - the scramble and throw on 4th that Nabers dropped was a perfect throw in a clutch moment
Overplayed:
Jones - the deep ball misses. Yes they need to hit more. Will be interesting to see where the goalposts shift to when this gets corrected also
Banks - Lamb made 1 big play that was as much on Nubin as Banks. All in all Banks competed and held him mostly in check.
Improvement - It’s year 3 and we all want wins. I get it. But there absolutely are positives from this first quarter and this baby doesn’t need to be thrown out in the bath water because we’re all sick of losing to Dallas.
Great post. Jones was definitely let down by the team again, as he has been his whole career. It shows incredible professionalism and restraint on his part to not come out in the media and tear them all apart for how they are all holding him back.
/s
It's to have a nuanced view of the loss and acknowledge that Jones did things well but he also did some things poorly and that other players on the team contributed to the loss.
But let's just focus on Jones and say he sucks.
Unfortunately, Sy's review also points out that the drumbeat that Jones is locking onto one receiver, not going through multiple reads, and his manipulating the pocket well is false. Did he miss on too many deep throws? Yes. Did that contribute to the loss? Yes. Was he the sole cause of the loss? No Did he also make plays that would have contributed to a win? Yes.
There are shades of grey
lol. Here come the fan club with their bullshit excuses. They are 1-3. They didn’t score 1 fucking touchdown. Not one. But hey, at least Daniel Jones wasn’t the SOLE reason they lost! Unbelievable. The $40M QB also didn’t help them win. Again.
You are the people that Sy is referencing when he talks about how low the bar is. Not one person thinks Jones was the SOLE reason they lost. It’s absolutely pathetic that some of you are perfectly content with that production
Sorry that looking at things in a balanced way upsets your myopia so much.
And two of your duds were on the OL. How is this a "very good OL?" They went up against one of the worst Dl's in the NFL vs the NFL. They have played against two bad teams Cleveland and Washington. I realize the name "Cleveland" in regard to Defense means a lot but it's the same Defense that got torched vs Dallas. And the OL for Giants didn't do much vs Minny. You pointed out they were "dominated inside" and you identify "2 OL Duds" and yet you say the Ol has been (very) good? Rushing for 74 yards and 26 yards in two of the 4 games in which only one thus far has shown to be really good is a stretch to lean toward “very good,” isn’t it? If you can’t run the ball,, then how good is your OL?
2--- Unless/Until teams stop Nabers- why go away from it early in season when you are still in the playoff hunt? Maybe if Daboll can work more explosive plays then why go away form it? Maybe if we can run the ball more, why go away from it? Maybe if Jones could be more competent then why go away from it?
**At the end of the year (last 2-3 weeks for example or use him sparingly) The Giants could rest Nabers. But for the time being why not play your game and play to your strengths while you are in playoff contention rather than force play to less productive players?
This year it looks like his arm strength is shot, and he is trying to compensate with any throws of 15 yards or longer.
A marginal NFL starting QB, who now has an injury that diminishes his effectiveness, is a recipe to consistent losing.
The team has improved its talent level in many spots. The QB, however, is holding the team back more than ever.
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Is because the opposing teams are fine letting him do it.
As soon as a defense comes in again with a scheme like Flores’ it’s going to be ugly if he can’t hit anything deep.
I'd also argue that the throws DJ is making are throws that any other QB in the NFL, backups included, could make. He can't do anything above the minimum of an NFL QB. Jones is Marcus Mariotta in a blue uniform. He should be a backup somewhere, where he can come in and keep teams close by just being functional. He will never do something to really help win a game
Yup.
So will I. What an odd response.
He doesn’t think you’re a good fan.
From a roster building standpoint, lack of power on the interior is a killer in the NFC East.
Evan Neal to RG just makes too much sense. They need his power presence. But it's tough to make a change when the pass blocking is so good. Tough call.
/s
This is absolute BS, Jones was let down by the team? Jones has let the team down. And this gaslighting is why this team sucks.
The “/s” means “end of sarcasm.” I have never been mistaken on this site as someone who makes excuses for Jones.
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In comment 16629099 HomerJones45 said:
Quote:
it's seeing the field. On the penalty play that got picked, the ball should have been up before Slayton reached the db. Slayton had leverage up the field and the outside, and that is where the ball should have gone. Instead, Jones waited and hoisted it up after the safety was headed over there so the pass had no chance.
On the concussion throw, Jones had a much easier pass to Singletary who was wide open and in his field of vision. Never saw him and had Nabers trying to make a circus catch on the sideline.
He doesn't see the field, doesn't see the leverage on longer passes, and he doesn't anticipate. Hoist all the deep passes you want. Unless the guy is wide open from the word go, it isn't getting completed.
I hear where you're coming from and I know the frustration. The good news is that 2024 is the transition year away from Daniel Jones and the drafting of a new QB next April.
I don't think so. They will find a rationale to keep him another year because his cap hit actually goes drops 6 million from this year. If they wait one more year to cut him, the dead cap will be 11 million. It won't surprise me to see him back next year. These guys can't help themselves to be sucked in. Daniel Jones is this decade's Norm Snead.
And two of your duds were on the OL. How is this a "very good OL?" They went up against one of the worst Dl's in the NFL vs the NFL. They have played against two bad teams Cleveland and Washington. I realize the name "Cleveland" in regard to Defense means a lot but it's the same Defense that got torched vs Dallas. And the OL for Giants didn't do much vs Minny. You pointed out they were "dominated inside" and you identify "2 OL Duds" and yet you say the Ol has been (very) good? Rushing for 74 yards and 26 yards in two of the 4 games in which only one thus far has shown to be really good is a stretch to lean toward “very good,” isn’t it? If you can’t run the ball,, then how good is your OL?
2--- Unless/Until teams stop Nabers- why go away from it early in season when you are still in the playoff hunt? Maybe if Daboll can work more explosive plays then why go away form it? Maybe if we can run the ball more, why go away from it? Maybe if Jones could be more competent then why go away from it?
**At the end of the year (last 2-3 weeks for example or use him sparingly) The Giants could rest Nabers. But for the time being why not play your game and play to your strengths while you are in playoff contention rather than force play to less productive players?
Very good OL is in reference to their pass protection (especially compared to where its been)
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1--- You say the OL was solid and they have been very good yet a quote of yours states "Even though they were OK in pass protection, the trio of Jon Runyan, John Michael Schmitz, and Greg Van Roten were dominated in the run game."
And two of your duds were on the OL. How is this a "very good OL?" They went up against one of the worst Dl's in the NFL vs the NFL. They have played against two bad teams Cleveland and Washington. I realize the name "Cleveland" in regard to Defense means a lot but it's the same Defense that got torched vs Dallas. And the OL for Giants didn't do much vs Minny. You pointed out they were "dominated inside" and you identify "2 OL Duds" and yet you say the Ol has been (very) good? Rushing for 74 yards and 26 yards in two of the 4 games in which only one thus far has shown to be really good is a stretch to lean toward “very good,” isn’t it? If you can’t run the ball,, then how good is your OL?
2--- Unless/Until teams stop Nabers- why go away from it early in season when you are still in the playoff hunt? Maybe if Daboll can work more explosive plays then why go away form it? Maybe if we can run the ball more, why go away from it? Maybe if Jones could be more competent then why go away from it?
**At the end of the year (last 2-3 weeks for example or use him sparingly) The Giants could rest Nabers. But for the time being why not play your game and play to your strengths while you are in playoff contention rather than force play to less productive players?
Very good OL is in reference to their pass protection (especially compared to where its been)
Yes good pass protection. Not good run. Thus an average OL. Maybe slightly above average at best.
From a roster building standpoint, lack of power on the interior is a killer in the NFC East.
Evan Neal to RG just makes too much sense. They need his power presence. But it's tough to make a change when the pass blocking is so good. Tough call.
Van Roten’s pass blocking has not been good. Make the change.
Hard to believe that a guy that could throw deep balls early in his career and now can't do it.
It’s strange to see Robinson as a stud, many here on BBI said he was horrible in that game
1st quarter results = Historic pace for the rookie ferrari
Daboll is taking the training wheels away and the QB will fail because he’s a 1 read QB
1st quarter results = After the Minny game which Jones was terrible, he’s been efficient and is showing the pre and post snap recognition and decision making they say he’s incapable of
Poor pocket presence that leads to sacks and makes the OL look worse
1st quarter results = Significant improvement since Minny culminating in back to back to back performances vs a great Cleveland D where he bailed the OL out and only 1 sack each vs two division opponents.
Dallas made NY 1 dimensional but a) couldn’t get to Jones and b) couldn’t stop the intermediate and ball control passing offense. Unfortunately the offense (and Jones) regressed in the redzone and couldn’t connect on deep shots. Now the echo chamber is roaring about a few deep passes.
There’s positives and work to be done.
1) Run game
2) Redzone offense
3) Run defense
4) Explosive plays
Jones is showing this fan he’s capable of playing at a level that allows the staff to further develop this team while competing. If they can find a higher ceiling QB next year, great! For now, keep stacking.
It’s strange to see Robinson as a stud, many here on BBI said he was horrible in that game
Fans suck. He cant break every single tackle.
This team didn’t score a single touchdown. Again. Your standards for good QB play are as embarrassing as Jones’ y/a.
I wondered what Schoen was doing when we didn't re-sign Ashawn or sign a quality replacement, or draft an IDL on Day 2. I had hoped he knew what he was doing. He didn't.
I wondered what Schoen was doing when we didn't re-sign Ashawn or sign a quality replacement, or draft an IDL on Day 2. I had hoped he knew what he was doing. He didn't.
He didn't re-sign A'Shawn because A'Shawn got more money from another team. It takes two to tango. Too bad, because I liked A'Shawn
This team didn’t score a single touchdown. Again. Your standards for good QB play are as embarrassing as Jones’ y/a.
Despite the same tired tone and rhetoric you’re known for, you reminded me of another: Jones isn’t accurate enough to allow YAC, yet that’s now a real part of this offense.
There’s no ball washing here. Giants before Jones. I’m just not going to fall in line with the narrative. I’m watching the games live. I’m watching the all 22. I’m watching the rest of the league. Y’all jumped the shark and the same old crew won’t rest until there’s another new regime and this franchise truly becomes the Browns.
I want stability that leads to respect and a return to Giants pride. I think this regime can restore it. Jones plays a part in that. May only be this year. May be as the bridge next year. My bar isn’t low. My picture is bigger.
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Just stop with this Daniel Jones ball washing that you’ve done in this thread. Just stop. Daniel Jones stats look “efficient” because he’s throwing the ball 5 yards downfield to Nabers and Robinson and asking them to get the yardage with their legs on 90% of the plays. Jones’ yards per attempt is embarrassingly bad. Just as it has been his entire career. You don’t need to pay $40M+ to a QB to check the ball down on every play.
This team didn’t score a single touchdown. Again. Your standards for good QB play are as embarrassing as Jones’ y/a.
Despite the same tired tone and rhetoric you’re known for, you reminded me of another: Jones isn’t accurate enough to allow YAC, yet that’s now a real part of this offense.
There’s no ball washing here. Giants before Jones. I’m just not going to fall in line with the narrative. I’m watching the games live. I’m watching the all 22. I’m watching the rest of the league. Y’all jumped the shark and the same old crew won’t rest until there’s another new regime and this franchise truly becomes the Browns.
I want stability that leads to respect and a return to Giants pride. I think this regime can restore it. Jones plays a part in that. May only be this year. May be as the bridge next year. My bar isn’t low. My picture is bigger.
Jones is once again averaging less than 7 yards per attempt. He’s completed 2 passes the entire season over 20 yards in the air. They don’t need to pay a QB $40M+ to check it down and let the receivers make plays on their own. When fans talk about making throws that lead to YAC they aren’t talking about 5 yard crossers every damn play. A QB making $5M can do that. And I didn’t say a damn thing about this regime. The only thing I’ll say about that is they tied themselves to a QB that is going to get them all fired. Just as he has done to all the previous regimes during his tenure here.
You want stability? You should be hoping that Daniel Jones leaves as soon as possible. Hoping and wishing he turns into something he’s never been in his entire life is a fools errand
I was able to find individual YAC statistics and there isn’t a Giants in the top 20. So please, other than you watching the all-22 and your feelings, please bring something that shows Jones has been anything beyond efficient the last three games. Because that is all he has been.
Take away Jones rookie year he has thrown 42 TD passes in 51 games. They are currently 29th in ppg but you have seen things on the alll-22. Bring some video or something to give the rest of us your hope.
The man has been argued on this site ad naseum. There is plenty to show who Jones is relative to every other QB in the league. Bottom line, he is 23-29-1 and he has won a total of 5 games against teams with a winning record. Somebody please bring something other than supposition or feelings to give us detractors hope.
I was able to find individual YAC statistics and there isn’t a Giants in the top 20. So please, other than you watching the all-22 and your feelings, please bring something that shows Jones has been anything beyond efficient the last three games. Because that is all he has been.
Take away Jones rookie year he has thrown 42 TD passes in 51 games. They are currently 29th in ppg but you have seen things on the alll-22. Bring some video or something to give the rest of us your hope.
The man has been argued on this site ad naseum. There is plenty to show who Jones is relative to every other QB in the league. Bottom line, he is 23-29-1 and he has won a total of 5 games against teams with a winning record. Somebody please bring something other than supposition or feelings to give us detractors hope.
Ugh, 23-39-1
If If’s and But’s were candy and nuts well wouldn’t every day be Christmas or some such thing….
In the meantime, as Sy alluded to in his review DJ got one of those two targets beat up on Thursday night… Here is a prime example. Nabers takes seven steps after Jones should have released the pass and gets lit by the safety. This pass should’ve been a chance for YAC. Jones “developing processing” lined Nabers up. This is the last 5 seasons of Jones passing.
Link - ( New Window )
If you think he's improving, then you need to look more closely. In his 6th year, he is what he is - his ceiling is a mediocre game manager, his floor is one of the worst QBs in the league. Has a disastrous career winning record for a reason, you would have to surround him with a roster of All-Pro or HOF players to have any chance at contending for a title (and no, 2022 we were no threat to win a title, we barely finished above .500). See what you want to see.
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I’m simply watching. And I’m seeing him improve prior weaknesses. It’s not surprising. He’s getting better pass blocking, he has two guys that he can trust to consistently win and catch, and the guy works hard. I’m looking forward to seeing the rest of this season. Perfect world, he makes a lot of people eat crow, Daboll and the staff get this group executing at a high clip, and Schoen and Co. find a higher ceiling QB to compete in the offseason.
If you think he's improving, then you need to look more closely. In his 6th year, he is what he is - his ceiling is a mediocre game manager, his floor is one of the worst QBs in the league. Has a disastrous career winning record for a reason, you would have to surround him with a roster of All-Pro or HOF players to have any chance at contending for a title (and no, 2022 we were no threat to win a title, we barely finished above .500). See what you want to see.
Thanks for taking the time to post the same hyperbolic narrative we’ve read ten thousand times before. Echo echo echo
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Unfortunately, Sy's review also points out that the drumbeat that Jones is locking onto one receiver, not going through multiple reads, and his manipulating the pocket well is false.
I dont see how or where.
2-1? 2-1??????????????????????????
Bwahahahahahaha
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In comment 16628923 Mike from Ohio said:
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In comment 16628911 mako J said:
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Underplayed:
OL - they’re complete ineffectiveness in the run game was a larger factor than Jones under throwing a few deep balls
Burns - another no show. This was exactly the game and opponent he was brought here to have an impact on
Okereke - another game with little to no impact plays after really emerging last year
Daboll - failed drives near the red zone resulting from inability to run and few if any actual routes/shots into the endzone
Jones - the scramble and throw on 4th that Nabers dropped was a perfect throw in a clutch moment
Overplayed:
Jones - the deep ball misses. Yes they need to hit more. Will be interesting to see where the goalposts shift to when this gets corrected also
Banks - Lamb made 1 big play that was as much on Nubin as Banks. All in all Banks competed and held him mostly in check.
Improvement - It’s year 3 and we all want wins. I get it. But there absolutely are positives from this first quarter and this baby doesn’t need to be thrown out in the bath water because we’re all sick of losing to Dallas.
Great post. Jones was definitely let down by the team again, as he has been his whole career. It shows incredible professionalism and restraint on his part to not come out in the media and tear them all apart for how they are all holding him back.
/s
It's to have a nuanced view of the loss and acknowledge that Jones did things well but he also did some things poorly and that other players on the team contributed to the loss.
But let's just focus on Jones and say he sucks.
Unfortunately, Sy's review also points out that the drumbeat that Jones is locking onto one receiver, not going through multiple reads, and his manipulating the pocket well is false. Did he miss on too many deep throws? Yes. Did that contribute to the loss? Yes. Was he the sole cause of the loss? No Did he also make plays that would have contributed to a win? Yes.
There are shades of grey
lol. Here come the fan club with their bullshit excuses. They are 1-3. They didn’t score 1 fucking touchdown. Not one. But hey, at least Daniel Jones wasn’t the SOLE reason they lost! Unbelievable. The $40M QB also didn’t help them win. Again.
You are the people that Sy is referencing when he talks about how low the bar is. Not one person thinks Jones was the SOLE reason they lost. It’s absolutely pathetic that some of you are perfectly content with that production
Could not agree more. Want to know where the losing mentality that infiltrates the players, the coaches, the management, and the ownership? Just read BBI.
This is the best we're going to get from Jones. As Sy said, his deep throws are way off, something everyone can see. Overthrows or underthrows. It doesn't matter. They're off. Other teams know it too. Whatever the reason (neck injuries?), his ability to throw deep just isn't there, at least not right now. He was never really able to see the whole field. Now he can't threaten the whole field. I want to see how the rest of the season plays out, but this problem is just more proof that we need to move on from Jones after this season.
Slayton, Wan'Dale and Nabers dropped 3rd or 4th down balls that would have been 1st downs in the 4th quarter. I believe on consecutive drives.
Do you work in hiring? I'd like 6 years to gradually figure out my job.
No one can convince me that Daniel Jones is anything more than a backup level QB. I want him replaced immediately. I have no delusions that Lock or Devito are long term solutions but at least they'll bring a different energy to the team and they can score 15 points a game too with the 2024 OL and WRs.
With the exception of Dexter, as a talent evaluator and draft pick evaluator, is there a DL on the roster that would make the top 25 DL groups in the NFL? Not start, just make the 53. I don't think so. I think after QB, DL is weakest part of the 2024 team.
I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think the Giants are developing a young, cap inexpensive secondary they can win with. Banks and Flott are not allowing the kind of separation we've seen from the Giants CBs in recent past years. Banks has to become more ball aware. Is that a teachable trait? I doubt Flott will ever be an even average tackler but if he can cover on the outside I think the Giants can live with that. I like the safety combo of Pinnock and Nubin. Phillips is the best slot DB the Giants have had in a long time. More depth is needed. Flott might be suited to be a back up not a starter. I think next year aside from potentially an early round CB secondary will be low on the priority list.
Very disappointing to read about JMS getting outplayed so badly. I'm going to keep beating the drum to see Evan Neal play guard. I want to see Neal next to Andrew Thomas and Runyan at RG. I'd like to see the Giants run behind Thomas and Neal. I know Daboll won't even consider it. One of the many reasons I think Daboll has 13 games or less before he's fired.
No one can convince me that Daniel Jones is anything more than a backup level QB. I want him replaced immediately. I have no delusions that Lock or Devito are long term solutions but at least they'll bring a different energy to the team and they can score 15 points a game too with the 2024 OL and WRs.
With the exception of Dexter, as a talent evaluator and draft pick evaluator, is there a DL on the roster that would make the top 25 DL groups in the NFL? Not start, just make the 53. I don't think so. I think after QB, DL is weakest part of the 2024 team.
I'm sure I'm in the minority but I think the Giants are developing a young, cap inexpensive secondary they can win with. Banks and Flott are not allowing the kind of separation we've seen from the Giants CBs in recent past years. Banks has to become more ball aware. Is that a teachable trait? I doubt Flott will ever be an even average tackler but if he can cover on the outside I think the Giants can live with that. I like the safety combo of Pinnock and Nubin. Phillips is the best slot DB the Giants have had in a long time. More depth is needed. Flott might be suited to be a back up not a starter. I think next year aside from potentially an early round CB secondary will be low on the priority list.
Very disappointing to read about JMS getting outplayed so badly. I'm going to keep beating the drum to see Evan Neal play guard. I want to see Neal next to Andrew Thomas and Runyan at RG. I'd like to see the Giants run behind Thomas and Neal. I know Daboll won't even consider it. One of the many reasons I think Daboll has 13 games or less before he's fired.
I’d like to thank you Arnie,
This is a great post and encapsulates a lot good info and questions, it is certainly head scratching that they don’t even consider practice reps for Neal, especially with other OLs leaving here as tackle failures and finding success elsewhere. And also for the Erich Barnes info in the other thread this morning.
Also Thanks to Eric & John for the awesome podcasts, TrueBlueLarry for the historical stuff and though not seen as much around here Matt in SGS. Lots of great content provided on the best fan site on the webs…
If Jones is the problem, put in Devito. He won 3 games last year. t this point, Daboll and his man Jones will be lucky to get two more.
If Jones is the problem, put in Devito. He won 3 games last year. t this point, Daboll and his man Jones will be lucky to get two more.
I hate to say it, and I'll keep rooting for wins because I'm a dumb fan, but it may turn out to be in our long term best interests to suck this year.
As opposed to your “fresh” take that Daniel Jones is “improving prior weaknesses?”
- Deep ball has gotten worse
- Points per game is abysmal
- Threat to run is diminished
- Defenses stacking the box and daring him to throw deep
It’s convenient to be contrarian, but so far the “improvement” you are seeing hasn’t produced any meaningful results. In fact, the team continues to regress.