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Joe Schoen Draft Patterns (2022 - 2024)

M.S. : 9/29/2024 6:44 am
It has only been three Drafts so there are no hard and fast rules, but I noticed a few intriguing patterns:

Inside Linebacker
2022: Round 5 (#146) Micah McFadden 
2024: Round 6 (#182) Darrian Beavers 
2024: Round 6 (#183) Darius Muasau

Tight End
2022: Round 4 (#112) Daniel Bellinger
2024: Round 4 (#107) Theo Johnson 

Running Back
2023: Round 5 (#172) Eric Gray
2024: Round 5 (#166) Tyrone Tracy, Jr.

As might be expected, most of Joe Schoen's other selections are all over the Draft Board, but all of his WR selections were procured with premium draft capital (#6, #43, #73).

So, are there any conclusions to be drawn? Probably not. But could Joe Schoen have a preconceived fixed idea about certain positions and when they should be selected? That wouldn't be the worst thing in the world and could simply reflect his notion of "positional value." But, then again, perhaps he should self-scout himself to ensure he does not hold himself too rigidly to any particular value system. That is a recipe for missing out on good players.
Huh?  
section125 : 9/29/2024 6:50 am : link
Basically drafted for need because the talent level was so bad. Plus, they went according to their board in those areas.

Don't think he has been free to develop a pattern.

ummmm  
4xchamps : 9/29/2024 7:01 am : link
You draft for "need" when your talent level is good. You draft PBA when you talent all over the field.
RE: Huh?  
M.S. : 9/29/2024 7:02 am : link
In comment 16629970 section125 said:
Quote:
Basically drafted for need because the talent level was so bad. Plus, they went according to their board in those areas.

Don't think he has been free to develop a pattern.

I have no doubt Joe Schoen follows his Draft Board very closely. But I don't think it's so far-fetched that he may have pre-conceived positional values baked into that Draft Board. As for drafting for "need," every team drafts for need within the context of their Draft Board. Here's to Joe Schoen selecting the right prospects and not letting "need" trump "value."
JS  
Hilary : 9/29/2024 7:07 am : link
JS gives up too many picks
A 3 for Waller
A 2 for Burns
A 5 to select Banks instead of surely have Banks or Porter Jr
A 4 to get Hyatt.
JS has had 3 drafts and 3 off seasons and the Giants might not win more than 1 game this year.
Hilary, his last draft looks like his best. Every player drafted and  
Ira : 9/29/2024 7:14 am : link
a couple of undrafted free agents are contributers. The first three picks are already strong starters.
Draft pattern is  
HardTruth : 9/29/2024 8:23 am : link
No QBs and alot of busts
Granted  
Spider43 : 9/29/2024 8:43 am : link
The sample size is still a bit small. But personally I think he swings for the fences in the first round, as opposed to the 'safe' choice. I'm not quite sure how to feel about that. I'd prefer he mix it up, depending on the circumstance. I am fairly confident he'll go QB in round one this spring though, so I'm feeling fairly good about that (I agreed with his identifying Maye as the QB target we should have focused on earlier this year).
Think you’re right  
BillT : 9/29/2024 9:02 am : link
I think he does have a basic plan for where to acquire talent. And it makes sense. You can get decent RB, TE, ILBs later in the draft. No need to spend premium picks when you need them for WR, DBs and the like.
….  
ryanmkeane : 9/29/2024 9:10 am : link
The way I see it - Schoen has done a pretty good job of finding talented players in the draft scattered across all rounds.

Problem is - aside from Nabers - that special find has somewhat eluded him the first 3 drafts but it’s still early. The later round guys have actually outperformed the likes of Thibodeaux and to a degree Banks and that is not ideal. I do still think Thibs and Banks have a pivotal role in the future of this team and their talent is undeniable.

As much as it’s great to find a guy like McFadden, Gettleman was able to identify AT and Lawrence as “all pro.” But he sucked at basically all other rounds.

Schoen’s process of collaboration has worked somewhat well but soon enough you need to hit a home run.
….  
ryanmkeane : 9/29/2024 9:11 am : link
2024 draft has nice early returns. Nubin is quietly playing really well.
so the takeaway is  
Giantsfan79 : 9/29/2024 9:19 am : link
no more 1st round RBs?
When Joe Schoen didn't "hit" on a pick  
M.S. : 9/29/2024 9:59 am : link
regardless of the Round, the impact has been quite noticeable on the field.

For example, he didn't hit with Daniel Bellinger and the Giants are struggling at the TE position.

He didn't hit with either Evan Neal, Joshua Ezeudu or Marcus McKethan -- the result of which was the need to patch the right side of the line with much older FA vets.

And so far, there have been no hits at defensive tackle with the low draft capital devoted to D.J. Davidson and Jordan Riley which has led to significant defensive issues against the run.

Which is by no means to say Joe Schoen has drafted poorly. I don't believe that. But what is true is that he took over the worst roster (from 1 to 53) in the NFL, and when he didn't generate a "hit" with a draft choice it was bound to show up on the field, and not in a good way.
In short,  
BigBlueinDE : 9/29/2024 10:07 am : link
there have been too many misses and not enough hits. Thibodeaux is consistently inconsistent and talks a lot. Neal is a bust, they know it and anyone else who is watching knows it as well. JMS is solid, but not anything spectacular; Ezedu is riding the pine; McKeathan is either buried on another team's depth chart or may be out of the league. Flott has his ups and downs but seems to be trending in the right direction.

The Jones contract in hindsight was bad but at least there's an escape clause.

Also, too many trades with less than ideal results. Jury is still out on the Burns trade, but I am less than impressed so far.
There is no such thing as “not hitting” on day three picks  
BillT : 9/29/2024 10:08 am : link
There is the reality of sometimes hitting on day three picks and it looks like we may have some. But they are a crap shoot for every team. The stats, I believe, back that up.
2024  
Hilary : 9/29/2024 10:15 am : link
2024 The picks look good but the Burns trade is a major hit in loss of cap space
and a second round pick. The bottom line is after 3 years Giants may be the worst team in the league. The DJ contract Neal Waller and Burns have really set the team back.
When I said he drafted for need  
section125 : 9/29/2024 10:16 am : link
it was need within the value group he was at, at the time. No matter what any one says, GMs are drafting for a need but the smarter ones don't draft a position for the sake of the position but the best player available that fills a position that needs help.

And yes, McKethan was a stab in the dark with a 5th round pick. Bellinger I think is still a serviceable TE that is being used incorrectly.
RE: There is no such thing as “not hitting” on day three picks  
M.S. : 9/29/2024 10:16 am : link
In comment 16630040 BillT said:
Quote:
There is the reality of sometimes hitting on day three picks and it looks like we may have some. But they are a crap shoot for every team. The stats, I believe, back that up.

I hear where you're coming from!
Gettleman and Schoen  
Mike from Ohio : 9/29/2024 10:57 am : link
Have generally not reached in the first round (you can argue DJ was a reach but most draft publications had him as a first/second round pick). The problem is that not many of them have developed into really good players.

Thomas and Lawrence have become studs. The others, by and large, have not. Is that on scouting or coaching? I think both. Obviously Toney was a scouting issue as DG had no idea how uninterested in football he was. Probably still too early for anything definitive on Banks or Thibs. Not at all looking good for Neal.

Drafting is not just about picking the right guys and avoiding busts. You need a coaching staff to develop guys (or for guys like Nabers, just stay out of the way). The team has had a lot of high draft picks the last few years, and they have certainly not made the most of them as an organization.
Giants seem like they  
Lines of Scrimmage : 9/29/2024 11:52 am : link
don't want to use a high pick on a ILB and goes back to '18. Ravens are the opposite.

Most who have played competitive sports understand at some point you will just not be good enough to move the the next level of competition. Not a great sample sample with this regime but sometimes too much is put on a failure to develop when it is more the player(s) are not good enough imv.

Seems clear this regime is a lot different than previous successful Giants decision makers (HC's and FO).
 
christian : 9/29/2024 12:12 pm : link
McFadden is one of Schoen's best value picks, and conversely Okereke has been arguably his best UFA investment. Inside linebacker is one of the few strengths on this team.
I'm happy he waits  
Adam G in Big D : 9/29/2024 1:24 pm : link
until the later rounds to pick running backs and tight ends.
RE: Hilary, his last draft looks like his best. Every player drafted and  
SGMen : 9/29/2024 2:20 pm : link
In comment 16629977 Ira said:
Quote:
a couple of undrafted free agents are contributors. The first three picks are already strong starters.
Agreed about 2024 draft as so far it is producing in terms of guys starting and Nabers is clearly a true #1 stud which we sorely needed.
The 2022 draft and off-season decisions are killing us right now as no one or nothing has shined outside of some good Robinson moments.

Schoen, if he had the crystal ball, would have traded down in 2022 for future picks and had picked up Jones 5th year option despite cap hit (somehow).
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