Prior to the season, there was a thread on predictions for how many games DJ would start before being benched, whether it was for performance, or the injury clause, or injury.
IIRC, some of the fringe predicted he would be done already, but there was not much prediction until about now, with a ten day window to prepare Lock/Devito to take over after 4 dismal performances from DJ.
DJ has not been dismal. Not really good enough, IMO, but there's room for debate. Still, he has not been as bad as a lot forecast.
So, how long now? Has your thinking changed?
I predicted mid season at earliest, thinking he'd be good enough to keep going until injury or the injury clause did him in. I don't think I'm alone in this general line of thinking. Another quarter season will tell how this line of thinking looks to pan out. Currently, I'm thinking DJ has bought himself more time.
Some of you are on the clock, though, for initial predictions.
We won the Cleveland game by getting an early lead thanks to the OL giving Jones time to throw, especially in the first half.
For the game, we had 112 rushing yards at a 3.5 clip. Great? No. Effective? I think so.
I know you want us to run the Wing-T and Wishbone like we are Oklahoma in the 70s and 80s under Switzer, but, IMV, it's going to take time to get there.
For now, I will take the good pass protection and Jones trying to make winning plays.
Any offensive expert would agree....
Any offensive expert would agree....
That 43-yard run wasn't a critical play to end the game?
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In comment 16630152 AcidTest said:
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won't get benched as long as the Giants are mathematically alive for the playoffs. The only exception in that instance is if he is truly awful. Even after the Giants are eliminated, I still think the chance of him being benched is low, although I could see it happening because of his injury guarantee. But I think the most likely scenario is that absent injury, he finishes the season.
What does truly awful look like?
He was 1-5 last year with 2 TDs and 6 ints in the second worst TD to pass attempts in NFL history to start a season (behind himself in 2020)
He fell 1 pass short this year of the most straight passes without a TD (to his own team) in NFL history with 153 passes
He had thrown more pick 6s than TDs from start of 2023 season to week 2 of this year
He is 2-9 in his past 11 starts with 4 TDs and 10 INTs
What exactly would truly awful be if we haven’t seen it yet?
He wasn't 1-5. He got knocked out of two of those games. Se he only finished 4 games where he was 1-3.
Mrs Jones is back.
I just posted the facts that the Giants did not have an effective run game against Cleveland. That has an impact on any QB in maximizing his QB production in the pass game.
It's 4.2 YPC, and 30 carries. The yards have to be gained by running backs. And the big runs in crunch time count less.
They got him weapons. He’s getting more than adequate time to throw the ball. Now if only we can get the ring game going, the punter to punt better and the field goal blocking to improve Jones may have a chance to succeed as a passer…
It's 4.2 YPC, and 30 carries. The yards have to be gained by running backs. And the big runs in crunch time count less.
I'm not the smartest guy, but I would think that big run by Motor to seal the game against Cleveland would be a credit to the running game and the line of scrimmage.
My it's really my bad. I wasn't aware of those outstanding rules put forth by LoS. He is the self-appointed running game expert, so he would know.
The pass protection is there. Receivers are getting open downfield. The QB either refuses to throw the ball downfield or when he does he misses badly. Yeah, it’s the run games fault.
You are such a clown show
LOS, with all due respect, you’re not doing your argument any favors. You’re admitting that Jones has to have absolutely perfect conditions - good OL, good running game, open WR’s - to be successful. That argument proves why we need to upgrade the position.
The Giants are similar to a person sitting in a canoe in a river of mud, without a paddle.
I wanted the NEFT and wanted the Giants to draft several QB's going all the way back to '18 with Allen.
Appreciate you not telling what I do not understand and ask why I think a certain way or not.
I don't know how much more I can say. I tried to be as evenhanded as possible.
-- I said the run blocking needs to get better
-- I said we had 2 games effectively running the ball
-- I said we had 2 poor games running the ball
-- I said our pass blocking has been good for Jones
-- I said Schoen wanted the offense to run through Jones
-- I said our OL is much more competent than last year
-- I said we need more time to see what the OL can do
You have a laughably inflated opinion on your “knowledge of the game”. You don’t know shit regardless of how many times you tell us you do or how many times you tell the rest of us how stupid we all are. As I’ve told you numerous times, your self awareness is startlingly bad
And yet we haven’t scored a TD in six quarters.
Like, WTF are we doing? This is Stockholm Syndrome on steroids.
And yet we haven’t scored a TD in six quarters.
Like, WTF are we doing? This is Stockholm Syndrome on steroids.
Don’t ya know? If only the OL would run block better Jones wouldn’t be missing open receivers downfield by 10 feet!
Yeah, you’ve mentioned that 100 times now. And I still GUARANTEE you that I’m far more successful in my chosen profession than you are yours. I think it’s hysterical that it bothers you so much. I’ll have to bring it up more now. You’re an obvious failure at life, which now explains why you get so bothered when christian jabs you with his life success. Haha! Fantastic
Are you going to blame the Giants run blocking for your failures as well? Or is it the pass blockings fault?
I was a teenager in the Dave Brown years. I never recall him getting so much leeway as this kid.
Then again, this entire organization is completely fucking broken from that clown Mara on down so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
Again, Cleveland and Washington.
I view effective running as a good pass-run attempts ratio (45-55%, either way) and, roughly, a 2:1 passing yards to running yards.
I was a teenager in the Dave Brown years. I never recall him getting so much leeway as this kid.
Then again, this entire organization is completely fucking broken from that clown Mara on down so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
To be fair, LoS doesn’t have a vested interest in Jones. He’d prefer to ban the forward pass from the game altogether if he had his choice. He was 3rd string guard on his pee wee football team in the 60’s so he’s a OL expert now
The feeling is absolutely mutual. Make no mistake about that. The difference is I don’t feel bad for you. Your failures are all on you regardless of who else you want to blame or how many times you try to comfort yourself by ridiculing others. I always get a kick out of you calling christian a liar 😂
I was a teenager in the Dave Brown years. I never recall him getting so much leeway as this kid.
Then again, this entire organization is completely fucking broken from that clown Mara on down so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
This conversation is really not about Jones like most typical days.
It's about our new OL and how they have performed YTD. To me, they have been much better than last year (yes, low bar), especially in pass protection. And in pass protection, they have given Jones more than enough time to make plays.
But if the operating assumption is the Giants need to run the ball well to get defenses to commit closer to the line, to then opens up opportunities in the pass game, these numbers might be surprising.
- Devin Singletary has the 5th highest percentage of 8 man boxes faced among all NFL back
- Malik Nabers has the best open rate among all NFL receivers
- Robinson and Slayton are 24th and 26th respectively among all receivers
So despite an uneven run game, all of the benefits a good run game provides a quarterback are already happening.
I really don't care how we do accomplish it; we just need to figure out how to score more points. That's the name of the game.
Because the scoreboard isn't adjusted for passing yardage, running yardage, mix, etc.
Oh please. We all know the run yards by quarterbacks count less, and the points scored through the air count less.
I know I've disappointed you because I can't afford a Ferrari. But over time I hope to gain your unfettered admiration.
Xo, Xo
Christian
I know I've disappointed you because I can't afford a Ferrari. But over time I hope to gain your unfettered admiration.
Xo, Xo
Christian
This is football, christian. Learn the game.
I know I've disappointed you because I can't afford a Ferrari. But over time I hope to gain your unfettered admiration.
Xo, Xo
Christian
This is football, christian. Learn the game.
No, no. This is football. Anyone who's played the game would know this.
With that said, I actually liked Daboll sticking with the run to keep the playcalling balanced. Probably needs some more PA mixed in on first down but whenever I see Jones in empty I get worried.
If the Giants continue offensive showings like Thursday I think it actually bodes well for Daboll. The biggest takeaway from national media, local media is the offensive shortcomings rested on DJ’s limitations.
The issue for Daboll is the entire team sees DJ missing wide open guys downfield and you’ll have a mutiny eventually if you don’t pull the plug on him. I’ll take 1-2 int’s from Lock or DeVito if it means challenging all parts of the field.
With that said, I actually liked Daboll sticking with the run to keep the playcalling balanced. Probably needs some more PA mixed in on first down but whenever I see Jones in empty I get worried.
If the Giants continue offensive showings like Thursday I think it actually bodes well for Daboll. The biggest takeaway from national media, local media is the offensive shortcomings rested on DJ’s limitations.
The issue for Daboll is the entire team sees DJ missing wide open guys downfield and you’ll have a mutiny eventually if you don’t pull the plug on him. I’ll take 1-2 int’s from Lock or DeVito if it means challenging all parts of the field.
In the last two days I'm coming around to keeping Daboll & Schoen and trying to figure out QB in 2025.
Daboll has now given Jones two chances to run the offense he wants to run with the training wheels off (2023) and now this season. What we are seeing in reverting back to the 2022 offense.
It's such a tricky situation because anything that will help Daboll stay will ultimately make it tougher to land a highly rated QB prospect.
I know it's not an excuse for Schoen, but he hasn't had a chance to get his Jayden Daniels yet. Peters walked right into it. It requires some luck to find that guy, but I think this team is ready made to compete with a better QB under center.
Didn’t see that but it makes sense. The answer is over the top and extremely good playcalling in the RZ. Passing windows close, Jones is slow processing and it gets harder to run so it puts a lot of pressure on the perfect play being called. That’s not very reliable.
And yet we haven’t scored a TD in six quarters.
Like, WTF are we doing? This is Stockholm Syndrome on steroids.
And that is after a stretch that posted the second most amount of consecutive passes without a TD in NFL history at 153. (He didn’t score a TD (to our team) from the second half of Arizona last year until the end of 2Q vs Washington in week 2. He did post 3 other TDs in the next 4Qs but is now back to 6 consecutive quarters without a TD
I was a teenager in the Dave Brown years. I never recall him getting so much leeway as this kid.
Then again, this entire organization is completely fucking broken from that clown Mara on down so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
It's some sort of collective delusion. My theory is that people were so beaten down by the Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Kanell era that anything better than that looks great to them. But QB play in the NFL today is light years ahead of the 90s and Jones is towards the bottom of the (starting) barrel even if he looks like Joe Montana compared to Dave Brown.
I've seen a theory that some of Jones more ardent supporters don't watch a lot of the rest of the league, and while I don't know if it's true or not, it would make sense.
Half right. Jones will finish and is the likely 2025 starter absent injury. They won’t get a new high pedigree QB prospect in the draft. They will get enough meaningless “culture building wins” to ensure they won’t control their fate in the 2025 draft, and, with the 2024 draft as a prelude, they will find sufficient faults in QBs they can draft to pass on them.
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I’ve said it a million times before, but it is a cult. Imagine being so devoted to someone like Daniel Jones that you’ll nit pick everything to make him be some passive figure in his six years. I honestly will never get it.
I was a teenager in the Dave Brown years. I never recall him getting so much leeway as this kid.
Then again, this entire organization is completely fucking broken from that clown Mara on down so I guess I shouldn’t be surprised.
It's some sort of collective delusion. My theory is that people were so beaten down by the Dave Brown/Kent Graham/Kanell era that anything better than that looks great to them. But QB play in the NFL today is light years ahead of the 90s and Jones is towards the bottom of the (starting) barrel even if he looks like Joe Montana compared to Dave Brown.
I've seen a theory that some of Jones more ardent supporters don't watch a lot of the rest of the league, and while I don't know if it's true or not, it would make sense.
I don't think it's merely that people are loyal to Jones simply because he's better than the 90's QBs were. I think it's simply that he had such a promising debut after the pick was slammed so much by Giants fans and the media that it appeared he would give us the last laugh and the right to thumb our nose at people like Chris Carter. It's tough to relinquish that.