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Mayfield and Darnold

eric2425ny : 9/30/2024 1:16 pm
it’s interesting seeing how well these two are performing in their seventh year in the league on teams that didn’t draft them.

Granted, both were drafted by two of the more toxic org’s in football (Browns and Jets), but it makes you wonder if there are other QB’s who may have been successful if given another opportunity after being in the league for 4-5 years. With today’s setup you seemingly only get that rookie deal to figure it out (unless you are Daniel Jones) and end up being relegated to a career as a backup or are out of the league.
Counterpoint  
Pork Chop : 9/30/2024 1:31 pm : link
to those guys is the QBs that never got close to their promise: Trubisky, Rosen, Trey Lance, Jake Locker, Gabbert, et al.

It seems to be a LOT of luck and a need for the perfect environment to strike gold with QBs
Interesting how other teams were smart enough to move  
Skully88 : 9/30/2024 1:32 pm : link
on from bad fits at the time.

Mayfield had kind of come around in Cleveland and seemed to be turning the quarter. Kind of fitting Haslem shafted himself with Watson.
Not just those two  
Jay on the Island : 9/30/2024 1:56 pm : link
but it took Geno Smith years to break out as well. For Mayfield and Smith I think it was more about maturing.
The same thing is going to happen to Jones, this site will explode  
Jack Stroud : 9/30/2024 1:57 pm : link
with people saying how could we have let that guy go! One thing over looked is hoe bad the Giants defense is, they are still getting gashed by the run up the middle and can not get off the field don 3rd down!
RE: The same thing is going to happen to Jones, this site will explode  
Jay on the Island : 9/30/2024 2:00 pm : link
In comment 16631674 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
with people saying how could we have let that guy go! One thing over looked is hoe bad the Giants defense is, they are still getting gashed by the run up the middle and can not get off the field don 3rd down!

Lol you are ridiculous. Yeah the defense is bad which is why Daniel Jones can't score in the red zone and is averaging less than a TD per game since the start of the 2022 season.
Mayfield was never a bad QB in Cleveland  
Greg from LI : 9/30/2024 2:00 pm : link
Had a couple of good years and a couple of meh years. Personality was more of a problem for him than on-field performance.
To me, this is the problem...  
Chris in LA : 9/30/2024 2:13 pm : link
We hired a supposed QB guru. If that's where you invest, let him work his magic on one of these reclamation projects. I think it's safer and lower-cost than investing significant draft assets. If the reclamation project fails, you cut bait and move on.
RE: Mayfield was never a bad QB in Cleveland  
Section331 : 9/30/2024 2:13 pm : link
In comment 16631690 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Had a couple of good years and a couple of meh years. Personality was more of a problem for him than on-field performance.


Exactly, Mayfield was far better than many here ever gave him credit for. He took over a team that was winless the year before, and as a rookie, had 3,700 yards passing with 27 TD's. His first 3 seasons, he never threw for fewer than 3,500 yards and 22 TD's. Yet many here derided the idea that he was even as good as Jones, when he was far better.
RE: Interesting how other teams were smart enough to move  
mfjmfj : 9/30/2024 2:22 pm : link
In comment 16631632 Skully88 said:
Quote:
on from bad fits at the time.

Mayfield had kind of come around in Cleveland and seemed to be turning the quarter. Kind of fitting Haslem shafted himself with Watson.


Really what the Jets and Browns did was smart? Cleveland is paying a lot more for a QB who is undoubtedly worse than what they gave up on. The Jets drafted a guy very high who is undoubtedly worse and then spent a lot of money on a guy old enough to be Darnold's grandfather. Epic fail is they don't win SB. Regardless of how you feel about DJ specifically those two franchises scream giving a potential QB as many chances as you can.
RE: The same thing is going to happen to Jones, this site will explode  
eric2425ny : 9/30/2024 2:27 pm : link
In comment 16631674 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
with people saying how could we have let that guy go! One thing over looked is hoe bad the Giants defense is, they are still getting gashed by the run up the middle and can not get off the field don 3rd down!


I don’t think we have to worry about that with Jones. Mayfield was looking good last year, which was his 6th season just like this year is for Jones. Jones just doesn’t have the ball placement skills and floats his deep passes. He’s not a terrible QB, he’s a good backup.
dont forget the other thing they have in common  
Eric on Li : 9/30/2024 2:30 pm : link
both went to carolina and looked even worse than they did with their first teams.
RE: RE: Interesting how other teams were smart enough to move  
Skully88 : 9/30/2024 2:31 pm : link
In comment 16631714 mfjmfj said:
Quote:
In comment 16631632 Skully88 said:


Quote:


on from bad fits at the time.

Mayfield had kind of come around in Cleveland and seemed to be turning the quarter. Kind of fitting Haslem shafted himself with Watson.



Really what the Jets and Browns did was smart? Cleveland is paying a lot more for a QB who is undoubtedly worse than what they gave up on. The Jets drafted a guy very high who is undoubtedly worse and then spent a lot of money on a guy old enough to be Darnold's grandfather. Epic fail is they don't win SB. Regardless of how you feel about DJ specifically those two franchises scream giving a potential QB as many chances as you can.


Sports is rife with stories of moving on working out for both the player, and the organization.

Every situ is different but Darnold “saw ghosts” when he was with the Jets. The fact that their next move was Zach Wilson and the Browns next move was Watson shows it’s the next move that matters.

Josh Rosen to Kyler & Jimmy G to Trey Lance to Purdy has yielded positives in the other direction.

Equating this to Jones, yes. It is 6+ seasons and the Giants have never even bothered to bring in camp competition or a draft project.

Should Jones find success later in his career, great. Good on him. In the meantime, the team is scoring 15 points a game and the defense is being blamed for the lack of wins or lack of Jones success or something in this very thread.
RE: The same thing is going to happen to Jones, this site will explode  
gridirony : 9/30/2024 2:35 pm : link
In comment 16631674 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
with people saying how could we have let that guy go! One thing over looked is hoe bad the Giants defense is, they are still getting gashed by the run up the middle and can not get off the field don 3rd down!
So Jack, you're now saying Jones will suck so bad the rest of his time with the Giants, that they are going to rid themselves of him ? What happened to your years of saying that he is a very good QB?
It is naive to look at any QB  
Mike from Ohio : 9/30/2024 2:36 pm : link
and think how good it was that we didn't draft that guy. There is no telling how the same prospect would fair in another system and with another coaching staff.

If Bryce Young was drafted by the Steelers or 49ers, do you think he would be on the bench and being talked about like he can hardly throw a forward pass?

Do you think Brock Purdy is playing as well as he is if he was picked by Carolina and forced to play?

These guys succeeding and failing is not something pre-ordained before they enter the NFL.
RE: The same thing is going to happen to Jones, this site will explode  
81_Great_Dane : 9/30/2024 2:44 pm : link
In comment 16631674 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
with people saying how could we have let that guy go! One thing over looked is hoe bad the Giants defense is, they are still getting gashed by the run up the middle and can not get off the field don 3rd down!
It's possible but unlikely. If it does happen, good for him. The Giants can't keep paying him on the hope that he'll take off. Hope is not a strategy.
RE: To me, this is the problem...  
DaveW2 : 9/30/2024 2:48 pm : link
In comment 16631703 Chris in LA said:
Quote:
We hired a supposed QB guru. If that's where you invest, let him work his magic on one of these reclamation projects. I think it's safer and lower-cost than investing significant draft assets. If the reclamation project fails, you cut bait and move on.


The key phrase there is "supposed QB guru". Josh Allen seems to be doing fine without him, while our QB seems to have digressed with him.

And look at how 7th round Brock Purdy is flourshing in SF.  
DaveW2 : 9/30/2024 2:52 pm : link
Shanahan looks like the real QB guru.

RE: RE: The same thing is going to happen to Jones, this site will explode  
rsjem1979 : 9/30/2024 3:03 pm : link
In comment 16631689 Jay on the Island said:
Quote:
In comment 16631674 Jack Stroud said:


Quote:


with people saying how could we have let that guy go! One thing over looked is hoe bad the Giants defense is, they are still getting gashed by the run up the middle and can not get off the field don 3rd down!


Lol you are ridiculous. Yeah the defense is bad which is why Daniel Jones can't score in the red zone and is averaging less than a TD per game since the start of the 2022 season.


Giants win 9 games thanks to defense and Barkley: "Jones carried them to the playoffs"

Giants losing and averaging 15 ppg: "Defense and run game are letting them down".
"Thank you for this provocative information...  
GiantTuff1 : 9/30/2024 4:11 pm : link
I will be taking this argument directly to Joe Schoen and Daboll's office to explain to them, 'See, you don't want Daniel to flourish in another City next year when he can just do so here.' That is reason enough for seasons 7 and 8 of Daniel to blossom as a football Giant. Gosh he works hard."

- John Mara, Esq.
Mayfield should not be...  
bw in dc : 9/30/2024 4:24 pm : link
included in this "seventh year is the charm" philosophy. He's had three quality years mixed in.

I heard Schrager say today that the demand for Darnold was actually pretty hot this offseason. The Commanders, for example, were very interested in him as a potential bridge. Apparently, he made a very good impression with Shanahan in San Fran. And Peters was the Assistant GM while this was going on...

Both  
RAIN : 9/30/2024 4:24 pm : link
have protection now, and have had for some time to get their heads straight. Not saying Jones isn't part of potential changes, but these guys have had times to get their heads straight and have migrated out of their respective clowns shows.
RE: RE: Mayfield was never a bad QB in Cleveland  
TyreeHelmet : 9/30/2024 4:26 pm : link
In comment 16631705 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 16631690 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Had a couple of good years and a couple of meh years. Personality was more of a problem for him than on-field performance.



Exactly, Mayfield was far better than many here ever gave him credit for. He took over a team that was winless the year before, and as a rookie, had 3,700 yards passing with 27 TD's. His first 3 seasons, he never threw for fewer than 3,500 yards and 22 TD's. Yet many here derided the idea that he was even as good as Jones, when he was far better.


Far superior player- always has been. And the Bucs still got him on a better contract than Jones....
RE: Mayfield should not be...  
RAIN : 9/30/2024 4:26 pm : link
In comment 16631942 bw in dc said:
Quote:
included in this "seventh year is the charm" philosophy. He's had three quality years mixed in.

I heard Schrager say today that the demand for Darnold was actually pretty hot this offseason. The Commanders, for example, were very interested in him as a potential bridge. Apparently, he made a very good impression with Shanahan in San Fran. And Peters was the Assistant GM while this was going on...


Yeah, but he should have risen above all the strife and put those teams on his back yah? No excuses when you lose like that, right? That's part of the narrative here.
RE: RE: Mayfield should not be...  
bw in dc : 9/30/2024 4:38 pm : link
In comment 16631950 RAIN said:
Quote:

Yeah, but he should have risen above all the strife and put those teams on his back yah? No excuses when you lose like that, right? That's part of the narrative here.


Who? Mayfield? He has won a playoff game with two different teams. And he played pretty damn well in Detroit last year when Tampa had that playoff game came down to the wire.
RE: The same thing is going to happen to Jones, this site will explode  
56goat : 9/30/2024 5:52 pm : link
In comment 16631674 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
with people saying how could we have kept that guy for 6 years???


I fixed the error in your statement. You're welcome.
RE: The same thing is going to happen to Jones, this site will explode  
Section331 : 9/30/2024 5:55 pm : link
In comment 16631674 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
with people saying how could we have let that guy go! One thing over looked is hoe bad the Giants defense is, they are still getting gashed by the run up the middle and can not get off the field don 3rd down!


So you’ve moved on from the OL, the WR’s, the coaches, now it’s the defense. Is our defense so good that they’re preventing Jones from throwing TD passes?
RE: Mayfield was never a bad QB in Cleveland  
cosmicj : 9/30/2024 6:18 pm : link
In comment 16631690 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Had a couple of good years and a couple of meh years. Personality was more of a problem for him than on-field performance.


Yeah, I questioned Cleveland’s decision not to extend him and it looks like I was right.
RE: dont forget the other thing they have in common  
UberAlias : 9/30/2024 7:07 pm : link
In comment 16631722 Eric on Li said:
Quote:
both went to carolina and looked even worse than they did with their first teams.
that’s a Good point here.
RE: RE: Mayfield was never a bad QB in Cleveland  
BillKo : 9/30/2024 8:12 pm : link
In comment 16631705 Section331 said:
Quote:
In comment 16631690 Greg from LI said:


Quote:


Had a couple of good years and a couple of meh years. Personality was more of a problem for him than on-field performance.



Exactly, Mayfield was far better than many here ever gave him credit for. He took over a team that was winless the year before, and as a rookie, had 3,700 yards passing with 27 TD's. His first 3 seasons, he never threw for fewer than 3,500 yards and 22 TD's. Yet many here derided the idea that he was even as good as Jones, when he was far better.


Pretty sure Cleveland is regretting letting him go considering the crap they have at QB now.

Looking back, I can't quite remember why the Browns soured on him so much. Seems the decision making was not sound although, again, I forget the specifics.
RE: RE: RE: Mayfield was never a bad QB in Cleveland  
bw in dc : 9/30/2024 8:38 pm : link
In comment 16632245 BillKo said:
Quote:

Pretty sure Cleveland is regretting letting him go considering the crap they have at QB now.

Looking back, I can't quite remember why the Browns soured on him so much. Seems the decision making was not sound although, again, I forget the specifics.


Mayfield had a poor year in 2021 after a very good 2020 in which he led the Browns to the playoffs. I think he had a shoulder injury that impacted his throwing.

So, the Browns were souring on him when Watson became available. And they decided it was better to take the risk on Watson and his issues off the field rather than re-commit to Mayfield.
RE: The same thing is going to happen to Jones, this site will explode  
FStubbs : 9/30/2024 10:35 pm : link
In comment 16631674 Jack Stroud said:
Quote:
with people saying how could we have let that guy go! One thing over looked is hoe bad the Giants defense is, they are still getting gashed by the run up the middle and can not get off the field don 3rd down!


Jones is the opposite, the Giants have given him every opportunity and believed in him so much they literally haven't drafted a QB since (even under Eli the Giants drafted QBs).
RE: And look at how 7th round Brock Purdy is flourshing in SF.  
FStubbs : 9/30/2024 10:38 pm : link
In comment 16631761 DaveW2 said:
Quote:
Shanahan looks like the real QB guru.


He spent 3 #1s on Trey Lance, which is an all time bust. He's done a good job with Purdy, but the true cost to get Purdy is those 3 #1s.
I keep thinking about this too  
santacruzom : 9/30/2024 11:32 pm : link
One thing they both have in common: a brief stint at competently coached teams with a winning culture. I'm curious what other abandoned QBs with promise might be in similar situations.
RE: Mayfield was never a bad QB in Cleveland  
santacruzom : 9/30/2024 11:34 pm : link
In comment 16631690 Greg from LI said:
Quote:
Had a couple of good years and a couple of meh years. Personality was more of a problem for him than on-field performance.


Yeah, there's that too. Mayfield's first few seasons weren't nearly as poor as other QBs who had a later renaissance.
RE: I keep thinking about this too  
cosmicj : 10/1/2024 1:00 am : link
In comment 16632398 santacruzom said:
Quote:
One thing they both have in common: a brief stint at competently coached teams with a winning culture. I'm curious what other abandoned QBs with promise might be in similar situations.


Yeah. I was skeptical of the Adolfo-Mensah hire but he’s doing all the right things and the Vikings look like an emerging team.
RE: RE: I keep thinking about this too  
santacruzom : 10/1/2024 1:23 am : link
In comment 16632415 cosmicj said:
Quote:
In comment 16632398 santacruzom said:


Quote:


One thing they both have in common: a brief stint at competently coached teams with a winning culture. I'm curious what other abandoned QBs with promise might be in similar situations.



Yeah. I was skeptical of the Adolfo-Mensah hire but he’s doing all the right things and the Vikings look like an emerging team.


Definitely. And it's premature but right now I'm envious of the Andrew Van Ginkel acquisition.

RE: Counterpoint  
Mayo2JZ : 10/1/2024 10:31 am : link
In comment 16631629 Pork Chop said:
Quote:
to those guys is the QBs that never got close to their promise: Trubisky, Rosen, Trey Lance, Jake Locker, Gabbert, et al.

It seems to be a LOT of luck and a need for the perfect environment to strike gold with QBs


BINGO! Now don’t take this as an endorsement of DJ but every time I see these QBs successful I think about our organization and I know it would NEVER happen here. I wanted Baker but that was never going to happen and as far as Darnold and Gino are concerned I couldn’t be happier for their success. It’s been mentioned here before but there’s definitely “something rotten in Denmark” and it ain’t just the QB
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