Contact Info
Administration
Coaching Staff
Coaching History
Annual Records
Hall Of Fame
Retired Jerseys
Ring Of Honor
|
|
|
Bengals vs Giants Game Review – Daniel Jones I’M Done With You Recap! John and Eric look back at the Giants pathetic loss to the Bengals and more importantly look Daniel Jones and his play. They go over why it was worse than it seems and what the Giants SHOULD do with Jones and the quarterback position in general.
What are the three big things the Giants SHOULD do and we talk about the potential loss of Andrew Thomas (which has since been confirmed).
My reaction to the Seattle game was basically "So what? Daniel Jones still sucks." That reaction made you angry.
What reaction do you want?
I knew that would get me in trouble as soon as I said it.
Quote:
Looking forward to seeing the game thread reactions if we take a lead against Philly on Sunday.
My reaction to the Seattle game was basically "So what? Daniel Jones still sucks." That reaction made you angry.
What reaction do you want?
Jones could throw for 599 yards and 4 tds Sunday and it wouldn’t matter. It’s over
Quote:
Looking forward to seeing the game thread reactions if we take a lead against Philly on Sunday.
My reaction to the Seattle game was basically "So what? Daniel Jones still sucks." That reaction made you angry.
What reaction do you want?
Is this supposed to be an argument?
Quote:
The easiest way to think about the cap implications is to not worry about the years, but just focus on the dollars.
- If they cut Jones after this season they have 22.21M left to account for
- If he's a Giant in 2025 they 22.21M + 30.5M = 52.71M left to account for
They have the tools to divvy up those numbers across 1 or 2 years (via post June designation, void years, etc.)
The reason I believe Jones has a strong chance of returning in the event he has a moderately productive season, is that in terms of real new money he would cost 30.5M.
That's not a huge sum of money for a 1-year bridge guy, with nothing guaranteed after.
I disagree pretty heavily on that last point. If they truly are looking for a bridge, 30 million is extremely high.
Recent examples of bridge QB contracts:
Minshew - 2024 - $25 million over 2 years
Darnold - 2024 - $10 million for 1 year
Brisket - 2024 - $8 million for 1 year
Mayfield - 2023 - $4 million for 1 year
Quote:
Sounds familiar....
I knew that would get me in trouble as soon as I said it.
The real number is 19.3 mil. If we cut him after this year, the cap savings is 19.3. You can spread out the signing bonus, but the savings don't change, just the year it gets applied to. That 19.3 mil is what you'll have to replace him. I don't know who the replacement candidates are or what they'll cost.
The goal, assuming we draft a QB, then sit him for a year, is to win games. We know that isn't happening with DJ. Should he turn things around and learn how to win, we're having an entirely different discussion. I would not, barring some modest improvement, pay DJ 19.3 mil. If we're going to lose, just pay some schmuck 5 mil, and spend the other 14 mil to keep whomever this year's Mckinney is, or bring in a FA.
I'd only pay 19 mil to a QB that gives us a good chance at the playoffs. DJ isn't in that category.
I think the mostly likely sequence of events that lead to Daboll + Schoen both being retained is Jones playing at/near his 2022 level.
So if Jones is coming off a reasonably good season, what might they do? I think it's very likely they would choose to pay Jones 30M for 2025 and attempt to draft his replacement.
I don't think the cap accounting will factor heavily. What will factor heavily is how much new compensation Jones earns.
Keep this in mind, for the 2023 and 2024 season he earned 41M a year. Keeping him for 2025 is a full 10M cheaper.
Quote:
Looking forward to seeing the game thread reactions if we take a lead against Philly on Sunday.
Is this supposed to be an argument?
Unless Jones suddenly becomes the QB he's never been, a win is a sugar high and little more.
I think the mostly likely sequence of events that lead to Daboll + Schoen both being retained is Jones playing at/near his 2022 level.
So if Jones is coming off a reasonably good season, what might they do? I think it's very likely they would choose to pay Jones 30M for 2025 and attempt to draft his replacement.
I don't think the cap accounting will factor heavily. What will factor heavily is how much new compensation Jones earns.
Keep this in mind, for the 2023 and 2024 season he earned 41M a year. Keeping him for 2025 is a full 10M cheaper.
Would you say he's had a reasonably good year, so far? With the exception of a couple of really awful games, he hasn't sucked. His accuracy (at all levels) is iffy, and points haven't been there. To be fair, his team mates have had drops/fumbles at inopportune times.
In a scenario where it's a close call, the cap loses some relevancy. In a scenario where Schoen/Daboll see an available replacement equal to DJ at half the cost, the cap absolutely comes in to play.
If that makes me a 'bad fan', so be it. I'm sick & fucking tired of watching this shit.
Dr. Jekyll and Mr. Jones...
Three home games: 0 TDs, 4 INTs.
Three road games: 6 TDs, 0 INTs.
I hope we beat the fucking pants off of Philly on Sunday but it doesn't change the fact that Daniel Jones is inconsistent at best and is done here.
I hope we beat the fucking pants off of Philly on Sunday but it doesn't change the fact that Daniel Jones is inconsistent at best and is done here.
They are very beatable for sure.
And icing on the cake would be neutralizing Barkley and Tracy/Singletary out-performing him.
If that makes me a 'bad fan', so be it. I'm sick & fucking tired of watching this shit.
I'm much more concerned on the bigger picture items:
1. Who is the GM in January 2025?
2. Who is the HC in January 2025?
3. What is the approach towards QB for 2025?
Nothing else really matters. It really sucks because I did really like Schoen & Daboll. I think Daboll has a chance to be a good head coach. But, Jones just clouds everything. And it's year 6 of Jones with NYG and year 3 of Jones with this regime.
It's hard to be enthusiastic about this regime picking their own QB when they'd be entering year 4 without any real progress.
Keep this in mind, for the 2023 and 2024 season he earned 41M a year. Keeping him for 2025 is a full 10M cheaper.
Would you say he's had a reasonably good year, so far? With the exception of a couple of really awful games, he hasn't sucked. His accuracy (at all levels) is iffy, and points haven't been there. To be fair, his team mates have had drops/fumbles at inopportune times.
In a scenario where it's a close call, the cap loses some relevancy. In a scenario where Schoen/Daboll see an available replacement equal to DJ at half the cost, the cap absolutely comes in to play.
I think the Giants will judge him on the full body of work in 2024. If the Giants win 7 games and he goes 3500/20/10, I think that favors Jones for two reasons:
1) They'll likely be picking outside of the top 5 and not control their destiny in landing one of the top college QBs
2) 12M of his 30M salary is guaranteed a month before the draft
That means they'd have to cut Jones before pro days are even complete. Otherwise they have to put a down payment they don't get back.
In that scenario I think they just keep him as insurance and go into the draft hoping for the best.
He's like the girlfriend you think could be marriage material one day, but she just keeps making bad decisions. At some point you can't risk it.
Or in this case, clean the infected wound.
Leaving him on is just more malaise.
But I dont think Schoen gave himself an escape hatch. I think he gave himself a slush fund
Jones contract was constructed so that Y1 gave them room to add for a 2 year run and then they create more room in Y3 by using Jones contract by converting money to sign more players. The Giants have done the FA splurge with McAdoo in 2016, Judge in 2021 and Daboll in 2022. It was planned again
They already did this by tapping into the well before the ink was dry.
“New York has restructured Jones' contract just days before the start of the 2023 season, per ESPN. The Giants created $6.315 million in cap space by converting $8.42 million of Jones's salary into a signing bonus. Jones' cap figures increased by $2.105 million in each of the 2024, 2025, and 2026 seasons as a result. “
If this was planned to be an out, why make it a more expensive one before it even started? Its 22 mil now but it was under 20 when it was signed
Overall, what a bad position this team has put itself in. The coach feels a need to claw out a few wins to save his job, but those wins that help keep his job may take us out of range to draft a QB next year. We also now have a starting QB with a large injury guarantee and no left tackle to protect him.
It feels like we're staring at the headlights of a car coming towards us and can't get out of the way.
There is no fucking way he is being brought back under any circumstances unless he starts winning at home, and these wins have to happen on Sunday and the next home game against Washington.
In fact, if he flops against Philly and they lose, I give him a 50 percent chance of even making it to the Washington game. There's a reason Banks and Schwartz are grumbling pretty loud.
1-7-1 at Metlife since the Barkley 35-carry game against the Texas in 2022. 5 touchdown passes, 10 interceptions in that span. 0 touchdowns, 8 incerceptions in his last five home games.
Forget whether Schoen and Daboll want to live and die with Jones, I think there might be an outside chance that Mara nudges for a change if there's a few more home embarrassments.
He is BAD. He has always been bad.
In 2021 he went 1-5 and set an NFL record for lowest TDs to pass attempts in NFL history with 2 TDs to over 180 passes.
1-14 on prime time didn’t happen in the last few weeks.
Some of you keep saying he is gone, the Giants cant keep him. They cant go on like this
They have been for 6 years!
They just rolled it back after Jones went 1-5 with 2 TDs in 150+ pass attempts (the second worst ever to his own record)
They rolled it back despite having the 6 pick in a QB draft . Despite having guys like Russell Wilson, Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, and Andy Dalton available as free agents. Justin Fields available by trade for peanuts.
What Im saying is - this isnt different. Its been this way. Why would we expect the Giants to suddenly see there is a problem and do something about it?
He is BAD. He has always been bad.
In 2021 he went 1-5 and set an NFL record for lowest TDs to pass attempts in NFL history with 2 TDs to over 180 passes.
1-14 on prime time didn’t happen in the last few weeks.
Some of you keep saying he is gone, the Giants cant keep him. They cant go on like this
They have been for 6 years!
They just rolled it back after Jones went 1-5 with 2 TDs in 150+ pass attempts (the second worst ever to his own record)
They rolled it back despite having the 6 pick in a QB draft . Despite having guys like Russell Wilson, Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, and Andy Dalton available as free agents. Justin Fields available by trade for peanuts.
What Im saying is - this isnt different. Its been this way. Why would we expect the Giants to suddenly see there is a problem and do something about it?
Mostly because they've exhausted all available excuses and the recency bias for continuing with him (2022 season) is fading.
His league-worst 2023 was an anamoly. His 2022 was also an anamoly. He is now what he's always been: around the 23-26th best QB, but now the home/away splits have become comically imbalanced to the point where he's unplayable at home. He was never this bad at home even at his worst. So you now you have people like Banks getting fed up. Philly and Maybe Washington are his last stand.
If that makes me a 'bad fan', so be it. I'm sick & fucking tired of watching this shit.
First, agreed - I would play golf with my friends 100 times out of 100 over watching the Giants. Maybe even with my enemies..
More to the point of apathy, i don't think there is a single post on here about the game this week. On Thursday. Against the friggin Eagles. With Saquon. And still, as crazy as it sounds, not eliminated from winning the division. And I get it. I agree. But it truly is amazing if you step back and think about it.
This has to end, the sooner the better.
Quote:
I believe both Eric & John hit on it, but it can't be understated...it is amazing-AMAZING-how apathetic most of this fan base is @ this point. The Giants have beaten their most diehard fans into the ground. A friend of mine got a tee time for 12:30 on Sunday & asked me if I'm game & the Giants being on @ 1 didn't even cross my mind until like 5 other considerations popped up. I have no interest in watching Daniel Jones play. None.
If that makes me a 'bad fan', so be it. I'm sick & fucking tired of watching this shit.
First, agreed - I would play golf with my friends 100 times out of 100 over watching the Giants. Maybe even with my enemies..
More to the point of apathy, i don't think there is a single post on here about the game this week. On Thursday. Against the friggin Eagles. With Saquon. And still, as crazy as it sounds, not eliminated from winning the division. And I get it. I agree. But it truly is amazing if you step back and think about it.
Try and find a Giants player or coach who even talks about winning or expressing a desire to win. I mean beyond platitudes like “we want to win every game” etc. Daboll now refers to it as the “result we want” .
He is BAD. He has always been bad.
In 2021 he went 1-5 and set an NFL record for lowest TDs to pass attempts in NFL history with 2 TDs to over 180 passes.
1-14 on prime time didn’t happen in the last few weeks.
Some of you keep saying he is gone, the Giants cant keep him. They cant go on like this
They have been for 6 years!
They just rolled it back after Jones went 1-5 with 2 TDs in 150+ pass attempts (the second worst ever to his own record)
They rolled it back despite having the 6 pick in a QB draft . Despite having guys like Russell Wilson, Sam Darnold, Joe Flacco, and Andy Dalton available as free agents. Justin Fields available by trade for peanuts.
What Im saying is - this isnt different. Its been this way. Why would we expect the Giants to suddenly see there is a problem and do something about it?
Yessir. Truth again.
This has to end, the sooner the better.
One key factor is so many other units are putting their weight. Defense leads the league in sacks, OL is performing decently. At some point it won't matter how much he is personally liked.
There's no more Schmeelk or Dottino damage control to be had if that trend continues. At some point Dex or Burns is going to lose it in a post-game presser and that's that. Probably this very next game.
Jones manages to throw just 1 TD pass in a 3 game win streak and people somehow thought this was good and freaked out when he injured his hamstring
The Giants actually pull their biggest win of the season or in many seasons at Seattle with his backup Colt McCoy and Jones returns to the lineup to get absolutely trucked by the Cardinals at home throwing just for 127 yards and vs Baltimore
However Jones manages his best game of year the last week of season with a win over Dallas and he had 227 yds 2 TDs and an INT as suddenly all is forgotten as the 6-10 Giants were “robbed” of the playoffs
Jones threw 11 TDs to 10 INTs with under 3000 yds passing on the season. And had 5 wins
Yet here we are 4 years later. There is no bottom for Jones
I remember his fans continuing to bring up his three big games from his rookie year and getting annoyed whenever anyone pointed out how bad those defenses were.
On December 22, 2019, Jones threw 5 TDs against the Redskins. It was his 11th start. 54 starts later, it remains the last time he threw more than two TDs in a game.
For the life of my ryan, I don't get why you still white knight the guy. He only provides you with 4-5 barely-credible opportunities a year to pat yourself on the back and say everyone else was wrong, and it's pretty obvious you'd like more than that. Why stick with Jones? He's not going to grant them.
Quote:
Jones' NFL future wasn't looking so bright, and play matched his college scouting reports more often than not. He's just only ever excelled versus mediocre or worse defenses. It's that simple in my view.
I remember his fans continuing to bring up his three big games from his rookie year and getting annoyed whenever anyone pointed out how bad those defenses were.
On December 22, 2019, Jones threw 5 TDs against the Redskins. It was his 11th start. 54 starts later, it remains the last time he threw more than two TDs in a game.
It certainly was a harbinger of things to follow.
Totally agree that there just isn’t any excitement watching the Giants
Yes, and no.
Giants obviously want better than what they're getting. If they don't, there's no point in following the Giants. They flirted with drafting a QB last year. My thought is that they signed him to that deal with the forecast that he'll improve as they add pieces around him. Instead, he stunk up the joint, suffered another neck injury, then an ACL. Two more injuries to his long history. This year, he's worse than ever with the long ball. I don't remember ever being this bad deep. This year, they're struggling to score.
So, on the one hand, why expect change? Hope for a new QB and a brighter tomorrow fades.
On the other hand, they got him a top WR. They got him a functional OL. He hasn't responded all that well, and he is the leader of an O that isn't winning. Hope for a brighter tomorrow revolves around Schoen/Daboll (or whomever replaces Dabs) feeling their seats getting warm and/or them finally realizing DJ can't pilot the Giants to a winning season.
Things have changed. There's another year of meh, at best. There's another couple of injuries. The long ball has gotten worse.
Much, of course, revolves around the remainder of the season. Going 5-6 will be an accomplishment, and while I would welcome it (except at draft time), I'm not holding my breath. Does his accuracy improve, or does he continue to miss wide open receivers? Will the OL fall to shit without AT, giving DJ an excuse? Does he suffer yet another injury?
And, the big worry is that excuses get too much weight. We could have won a couple more games so far except for the kicker situation and some untimely drops/fumbles. It isn't all the fault of DJ.
Jones manages to throw just 1 TD pass in a 3 game win streak and people somehow thought this was good and freaked out when he injured his hamstring
The Giants actually pull their biggest win of the season or in many seasons at Seattle with his backup Colt McCoy and Jones returns to the lineup to get absolutely trucked by the Cardinals at home throwing just for 127 yards and vs Baltimore
However Jones manages his best game of year the last week of season with a win over Dallas and he had 227 yds 2 TDs and an INT as suddenly all is forgotten as the 6-10 Giants were “robbed” of the playoffs
Jones threw 11 TDs to 10 INTs with under 3000 yds passing on the season. And had 5 wins
Yet here we are 4 years later. There is no bottom for Jones
No argument from me, I also thought 2020 showed everything you needed to see from him. I tuned out for most of that season due to being completely unexcited about Judge and the roster plus the weird Covid era, but I did get interested enough to try and watch that Cardinals game and lasted about 15 minutes.
Nevertheless, the Giants - in their glacier-like pace to move on anything - were of course going to run it back with him in 2021. It's much different in 2024 with a much improved roster and large contract. There's no hiding for him and I'm leaning toward him being benched if they flop in these upcoming home division games.
And, the big worry is that excuses get too much weight. We could have won a couple more games so far except for the kicker situation and some untimely drops/fumbles. It isn't all the fault of DJ.
Good post, but on this point: Everyone but the Natan Peterman's of the world can probably fall assbackward into throwing a TD at home in five games, nevermind throwing zero TDs and 8 INTs. There isn't any legit excuse the org can use for him in this regard and that's why Banks went in on him this week.
Quote:
And, the big worry is that excuses get too much weight. We could have won a couple more games so far except for the kicker situation and some untimely drops/fumbles. It isn't all the fault of DJ.
Good post, but on this point: Everyone but the Natan Peterman's of the world can probably fall assbackward into throwing a TD at home in five games, nevermind throwing zero TDs and 8 INTs. There isn't any legit excuse the org can use for him in this regard and that's why Banks went in on him this week.
There may not be objectively legitimate excuses, sure, but there will still be excuses!
How could any franchise keep sending out such a ridiculous performer year in and year out?
Insane.
I want to see Jones on a bus out of town, permanently. Whatever needs to happen to move that along, do it.
If Jones gets seriously injured there will be no bus with a seat assigned to him headed out of town….
How could any franchise keep sending out such a ridiculous performer year in and year out?
Insane.
If you take away the 24 TD passes in the 13 played games in his rookie season, he's thrown 44 in 53 games since.
Quote:
Has there ever been in the Super Bowl era anything quite as remarkable as a guy this bad who never loses his job?
How could any franchise keep sending out such a ridiculous performer year in and year out?
Insane.
If you take away the 24 TD passes in the 13 played games in his rookie season, he's thrown 44 in 53 games since.
If any of my corners or safeties allowed a Daniel Jones touchdown pass, I would bench them for the next game.
Quote:
Has there ever been in the Super Bowl era anything quite as remarkable as a guy this bad who never loses his job?
How could any franchise keep sending out such a ridiculous performer year in and year out?
Insane.
If you take away the 24 TD passes in the 13 played games in his rookie season, he's thrown 44 in 53 games since.
I think your response actually answers the question posed above: after the Jones pick was completely blasted by the media, ownership saw Jones perform very well in some games his rookie year. They probably felt more than a little satisfaction from being vindicated, and they probably want a reason to feel it again.